ANSWERED:Lift CB Valentine / Christmas Limit?

[Jazeki]

Actually, we really don't know how coding works based on TJ's response in the other thread. We can assume how holidays work, but I still don't buy the "unlimited because coding" argument.

 

And with that, I think I'm done replying for the day.

[DragonLady86]

Honestly, if we get old CBs for the other holidays, I'll be grateful.  I, personally will only grab enough to get a CB pair of each of those I don't have that for and be done with it.  The only holiday dragon I ever wanted to hoard is Marrows and I've now done that.  Limits or no limits makes no difference.  If they come back, I'll be happy for it and those that want more and If they don't, I'll live. 

Quote

Actually, we really don't know how coding works based on TJ's response in the other thread. We can assume how holidays work, but I still don't buy the "unlimited because coding" argument.

TJ is one that posted that the cave doesn't distinguish.  Granted that was a good while back and may not be true anymore, but as far as I know, it hasn't changed.  And don't ask me where to find said post, cause I don't know if it even still exists. ;/

Edited October 29, 2017 by DragonLady86
no double post

[Dragon_Arbock]

5 minutes ago, Jazeki said:

Actually, we really don't know how coding works based on TJ's response in the other thread. We can assume how holidays work, but I still don't buy the "unlimited because coding" argument.

 

And with that, I think I'm done replying for the day.

I mean, we do. It didn't distinguish between CBs. I joined after the Val 09s. Come the next year I could still only pick up 2 messy ones.

[HeatherMarie]

I'm going to re-link to this:

 

 

TJ's post here sure seems like it *is* possible to keep CB limits while re-releasing CB holidays, since he directly says *lifting* limits is "mutually exclusive" with CB holidays returning. Meaning if CB holidays returned there wouldn't be lifted CB limits, which seems to mean that it *is* possible to keep those limits in place.

 

Either way, I think raising the limit to 4 is the best compromise here. Some people don't want unlimited, but almost everyone seems to agree about *some* sort of increase.

[purplehaze]

Don't forget, when discussing raised limits, that TJ has already said this:

Of course, he has been known to change his mind on occasion, but this is a pretty recent post and there is no reason to believe, based on the Halloween experience that we will get the same for the other holidays. For one thing, there never was a limit on Halloween dragons.

 

Edit:

Edited October 29, 2017 by purplehaze

[Dragon_Arbock]

Somehow though that sounds more like to me it's either 'lifting the limits on the first year of the holiday' or CBs return. That is how I'm reading it. But knowing him he'll never tell us.

[Guillotine]

2 hours ago, Draconiusultamius said:

I never knew that  Thanks for the info!  New coding sounds tricky though, but I'm sure TJ can pull it off.

...That is what I have been trying to tell people since my first post in this thread. Am I just invisible?????

 

We don't know if TJ can get a -stable- version of the cave that distinguishes bred and CB out before the Holiday drop, or if he even wants to, or if he already has. Even the best coders can go through a lot of bugs for minor changes, and there's a possibility that this wouldn't be a minor change. We literally do not have the information to argue this i any direction until it has come and gone.

 

(Also, the hoarding refered to the effects on breeding; a lot of people just won't breed for other people, period, because of how limited the Val/Xmas CB stock is.)

[blockEdragon]

3 hours ago, purplehaze said:

Don't forget, when discussing raised limits, that TJ has already said this:

Of course, he has been known to change his mind on occasion, but this is a pretty recent post and there is no reason to believe, based on the Halloween experience that we will get the same for the other holidays. For one thing, there never was a limit on Halloween dragons.

 

Wouldn't it make more sense to remove limits if old ones are coming back so people can grab what they want? If they somehow didn't manage any in a week it's not like they would be missing out forever if  they all came back from now on, which in my book was the only reason to limit the winter holidays. But now if you don't manage to grab a certain breed this year it comes back the next and you can try again and people might be more wiling to gift them since they get more then two in their lifetime, and with the eggs dropping for a week like they did this time you have a good chance of getting one, regardless of limits, and catching caveborns was pretty easy after the rush, once all the egg slots fill up it slows down, I saw eggs sit for minutes at a time at several points so it's not like the eggs are disappearing in seconds from tart to finish.

 

I see no reason of limiting old (or even) caveborn's of the AP is a free for all and the olds CBs come back each year, the value of a caveborn VS a bred egg is totally subjective, and if someone's gonna waste their family time on the old caveborns then they would waste their family time on the AP in their absence.

Edited October 30, 2017 by blockEdragon

[angelicdragonpuppy]

3 hours ago, Draconiusultamius said:

Honestly, I want to keep the breed limits because of why they were there in the first place.  Christmas and Valentine's day are about giving.  Halloween is about greed, so it's ok if you grab as many CBs as you want, but for Christmas especially, it's a time to give.  Valentine's day can be argued as a greed based holiday though, so I don't mind no limits for it (with all that money being made and all).  Its more of a morality and personal opinion though.

 

The irony, though, is that limits (or at least very strict limits) HURT gifting. Myself and many others have pointed out that we gift bred Halloweens and even CBs generously because we have so many. There have been years I've posted offering free 2g breedings repeatedly with no bites because so many people are also gifting! In contrast, with only 2 CBs ever of the Valentine / Christmas breeds, I only rarely gift, and have a hard time finding people gifting. Why? Because they're so limited that you have to choose between your own plans and gifting. I want to share... but not if it means slashing my own plans for that breed for an entire year.  Again, I'm not the only one who feels this way, either; check out the raising limits thread I made which was quoted above, it has others sharing the same experiences.

 

ANYWAY. If old Christmas / Valentine dragons return, I think it'd be amazing if there was a 2 per breed per year limit. That still limits a lot of competition while technically creating limitless collecting. If TJ doesn't want to go that route, though, then yes, a raise to four would be amazing! CB Valentines / Christmases often sit and vanish during the latter half of their time here because people are already filled with their limit. That highly suggests raising the limits to 4 would do no harm. It's true that in the way, way past holidays could be annoying to deal with, but in recent years with all biomes dropping, its super simple to grab them even on slow connections. I know cuz I've done it! Yes, a single holiday biome for oldies is a different matter, but I imagine demand will decline pretty steeply after the first year of return. Yes, some people will always want more, but others will be content once they get their basic goals met.

[Marrionetta]

I think for old stuff a free for all is cool. It's like a past holiday yardsale with last year's tickle me elmo.

[DragonLady86]

13 minutes ago, Marrionetta said:

I think for old stuff a free for all is cool. It's like a past holiday yardsale with last year's tickle me elmo.

Maybe I'm just tired but I literally loled at this mental image.

[Draconiusultamius]

Honestly, I just stick all my bred eggs in the AP, regardless of whether they're CB or not.  I wouldn't even mind breeding for other people, but nobody ever asks me in advance, so I don't.

[Fuzzbucket]

This. On the whole I don't actually need eggs from my CB holidays any more - my lines have moved past that. I will breed them if asked - but I have given up breeding them at random as I am tired of seeing the eggs die. I also get ultra-fed up when people ask for an egg and I find myself entering the actual holiday drop period with the egg still on my scroll, taking up a space. Now I will drop the egg after 24 hours and NOT accept a request from that person again.

[VixenDra]

On 28.10.2017 at 6:58 PM, DragonLady86 said:

The limits aren't even in effect anymore.  They are taken down after the holiday, every year.  That's the only reason you can pick up bred ones the next year.  Because the cave has never distinguished between CB and bred.  As shown here: https://dragcave.net/help/limits there is no Christmas or Valentines on that list.

[...]

So maybe, just maybe, we should wait and see whether or not were even going to get them and how before we start asking for changes. 

 

 

 

If this is the case then ALL we need added are the re-releases every year. A perfect sollution - still no competition for the new breeds BUT also no TRUE limits on CBs!

 

Because my very suggestion for these holidays change is to reset the limits every year, and to also rise the initial drop of the new breeds to 4CBs. So it's max xCBs per breed per year instead of a lifetime.

But if the limit only applies to the newest breed already, best thing is to keep it that way and only add the yearly re-releases. No number-related goals discriminated at last (in th case of holidays)!

 

 

As for the Halloween re-release, only the first 2 days were crazy, later it calmed down and eggs were sitting for at least a few seconds and the biome wasn't getting emptied between 5min drops.

Also, I bet it was mostly the hype of the first re-release ever. In the future it should be a bit calmer because at least a few players got (or nearly got) their goal fill this year:P Also, many players don't want to give up their breeding goals/projects completely and will probably keep them in a higher focus next year on^^

At the moment there are only 22(!) people in the Holiday biome! So the competition is definitely manageable atm. The eggs are moving slowly.

edit: 19 people.

Heck, I've seen a Pumpkin sitting there for a few refreshes!

Edited October 30, 2017 by VixenDra

[olympe]

The thing with a 3-day release of unlimited holidays is that we'll all get 2 times our egg limit. I don't think that's supposed to happen. So, the drops will probably be shortened to two days. *shrugs*

[EscapistLore]

1 hour ago, VixenDra said:

 

If this is the case then ALL we need added are the re-releases every year. A perfect sollution - still no competition for the new breeds BUT also no TRUE limits on CBs!

 

Because my very suggestion for these holidays change is to reset the limits every year, and to also rise the initial drop of the new breeds to 4CBs. So it's max xCBs per breed per year instead of a lifetime.

But if the limit only applies to the newest breed already, best thing is to keep it that way and only add the yearly re-releases. No number-related goals discriminated at last (in th case of holidays)!

 

 

As for the Halloween re-release, only the first 2 days were crazy, later it calmed down and eggs were sitting for at least a few seconds and the biome wasn't getting emptied between 5min drops.

Also, I bet it was mostly the hype of the first re-release ever. In the future it should be a bit calmer because at least a few players got (or nearly got) their goal fill this year:P Also, many players don't want to give up their breeding goals/projects completely and will probably keep them in a higher focus next year on^^

At the moment there are only 22(!) people in the Holiday biome! So the competition is definitely manageable atm. The eggs are moving slowly.

edit: 19 people.

Heck, I've seen a Pumpkin sitting there for a few refreshes!

 

My major fear with no limits, is hollies. There will be a lot of people hunting for CB hollies, and that competition is going to get -insane- and people with slower connections may not get them at all! Especially considering people have things to do around that time of year that pull them away from the computer.

 

As far as I know, Halloweens didn't, and don't, have a Holly equivalent for rarity/desired 2Gs. So naturally the oldest were taken quickly, and I know of people who, even a few days after the holiday week started, were having issues catching pumpkins. I can just imagine this going on 10x for CB Hollies.. maybe to the extent that other breeds become cave blockers (I hope not!). As an added note, many people already had a bunch of CB Halloweens and so didn't need more - that took out some of the competition for eggs. So comparing what happened this Halloween to what may happen in the future holidays, that may not be the best comparison. 

 

Granted, I'd love the opportunity to have more CB Snows on my scroll, I really would! But I really think that entirely lifting the limit on the old holidays would be more detrimental to most people than it would be helpful, and cause more frustration than happiness. And no, I don't know how coding-wise this could be done, to make CB limits. If it's possible, TJ would know, but it may be a lot of work? We don't know.

[Bison]

Something just dawned on me about limited CB re-releases for Halloween and Valentine's Day.

 

What will happen to those of us who made the mistake of freezing our original CBs? Will we have to kill or release them in order to get our two adults? I imagine that yes, we'll just have to get rid of them but I'm not really sure how I feel about that. This obviously wasn't an issue with Halloweens but I screwed up with a lot of Christmas/Valentine's releases so now I'm a bit worried. I don't want to have to kill or abandon dragons I've owned for so many years. If the limit was slightly raised, like up to 4, at least people with frozen CBs would have the option to keep them and still be able to breed that species.

 

This probably doesn't matter to most people but now that I've thought of it I don't know. I feel odd. I've had some of these dragons for 5 years.

[Dragon_Arbock]

1 hour ago, EscapistLore said:

 

My major fear with no limits, is hollies. There will be a lot of people hunting for CB hollies, and that competition is going to get -insane- and people with slower connections may not get them at all! Especially considering people have things to do around that time of year that pull them away from the computer.

 

As far as I know, Halloweens didn't, and don't, have a Holly equivalent for rarity/desired 2Gs. So naturally the oldest were taken quickly, and I know of people who, even a few days after the holiday week started, were having issues catching pumpkins. I can just imagine this going on 10x for CB Hollies.. maybe to the extent that other breeds become cave blockers (I hope not!). As an added note, many people already had a bunch of CB Halloweens and so didn't need more - that took out some of the competition for eggs. So comparing what happened this Halloween to what may happen in the future holidays, that may not be the best comparison. 

 

Granted, I'd love the opportunity to have more CB Snows on my scroll, I really would! But I really think that entirely lifting the limit on the old holidays would be more detrimental to most people than it would be helpful, and cause more frustration than happiness. And no, I don't know how coding-wise this could be done, to make CB limits. If it's possible, TJ would know, but it may be a lot of work? We don't know.

Then people can't get a CB Holly, big deal. I still don't have any CB Golds. One breed should not ruin it for all the breeds.
And after a year or two Hollies would even out and be less in demand.

[blockEdragon]

1 hour ago, EscapistLore said:

 

My major fear with no limits, is hollies. There will be a lot of people hunting for CB hollies, and that competition is going to get -insane- and people with slower connections may not get them at all! Especially considering people have things to do around that time of year that pull them away from the computer.

 

As far as I know, Halloweens didn't, and don't, have a Holly equivalent for rarity/desired 2Gs. So naturally the oldest were taken quickly, and I know of people who, even a few days after the holiday week started, were having issues catching pumpkins. I can just imagine this going on 10x for CB Hollies.. maybe to the extent that other breeds become cave blockers (I hope not!). As an added note, many people already had a bunch of CB Halloweens and so didn't need more - that took out some of the competition for eggs. So comparing what happened this Halloween to what may happen in the future holidays, that may not be the best comparison. 

 

Granted, I'd love the opportunity to have more CB Snows on my scroll, I really would! But I really think that entirely lifting the limit on the old holidays would be more detrimental to most people than it would be helpful, and cause more frustration than happiness. And no, I don't know how coding-wise this could be done, to make CB limits. If it's possible, TJ would know, but it may be a lot of work? We don't know.

All the holidays seem equally common in the biome, and while there might be a high demand there still will be a point where the rush stops because egg limits are already there to keep that in check. Yea there's a time limit before the new drop but waiting an hour or two won't kill ya.

 

I don't think there will be as much of a problem when you have a week to get them, the biome refills constantly, and rushes die down. Even NEW holidays have the rush and then the slow areas.And not only that but like Dragon Arbok said, hollies shouldn't ruin it for every other breed just because of the unlikely event that people would still consider them worth as much as they used to be.

Edited October 30, 2017 by blockEdragon

[The Dragoness]

18 minutes ago, Dragon_Arbock said:

Then people can't get a CB Holly, big deal. I still don't have any CB Golds. One breed should not ruin it for all the breeds.
And after a year or two Hollies would even out and be less in demand.

I don't really think that's fair. Hollies and Golds are not at all the same. We may only see the return of CB Hollies once. Everyone should get a chance at them, not just the lucky people. And with how old and rare Hollies are, it will take more than a year for them to not be considered common.

 

I agree entirely with what @EscapistLore said. DC holidays are supposed to be fun. Not a source of frustration and bad feelings.

Edited October 30, 2017 by The Dragoness

[HeatherMarie]

Yeah, CB Hollies are not at all comparable to CB Golds, which are still available, year-round, all the time. And which you can trade for if you don't have the luck/reflexes in the biomes. CB Hollies are literally *unavailable* to get no matter what you do, so if that changed of course everyone would be scrambling for them. I'm not saying that's a reason against any of these suggestions, but it *is* a valid concern and one that shouldn't be dismissed by comparing them to something that's still available.

[Dragon_Arbock]

I highly doubt if we get new CBs, that it will only be for one year. Once it's done, he won't be able to take it back, becuase it won't be fair to new players who join after that. CB Hollies will get the few years they need to balance out. You know what? I can wait. I'm not going to let the fact that I want one make me demand a limit on them so I can ensure I get one, while ruining all the other breeds that don't need a limit.
And CB Golds are the rarest 'normal' dragon, so I think it's comparable. And no I can't trade for one. I have nothing of value (no prize dragon).

[EscapistLore]

1 hour ago, Dragon_Arbock said:

Then people can't get a CB Holly, big deal. I still don't have any CB Golds. One breed should not ruin it for all the breeds.
And after a year or two Hollies would even out and be less in demand.

 

But it's a holiday. The spirit is supposed to be giving - it's -not- supposed to be like Halloween where everyone grabs as much candy as they can. People have lives and may not be able to sit at a computer for hours upon hours to get their favorite breed.

 

Would a limit of 4 CB winter holiday dragons.. really.. ruin it for you? I can only speak for myself, and feel that if TJ could implement a limit like that on CBs, it wouldn't ruin it. It'd actually make it easier and less stressful for me - And I don't really have fears over myself being able to catch Hollies. I worry for those who can't.

 

This is a very valid concern, unfortunately, and I'm not thinking of myself when I bring this up. You can trade for CB golds year round. You can't with Hollies, just as a 2G gold is worth.. well, little (to me) whereas spriters alt owners, prize owners, and everyone and their mother/brother/second cousin once removed, agrees that 2G Hollies are nigh unobtainable and have a high trading worth.

 

And again, Halloween -doesn't- have a Holly equivalent. I don't see people often really going and filling up scrolls with CB Pumpkins (Which is a shame, but even marrows really weren't 'hoarded' by many). Yet, I guarantee this, there will be people who come and fill up scrolls with nothing but CB Hollies, and there will be a lot more of those than what happened this Halloween.

 

I'm in favor of raising the limit. Maybe.. +2 CB every year? Or something. But I want the limit kept so everyone can get what they want, and so it's not a, "Grab as much candy as you can cause its halloween" type deal. I want -everyone- to get what they want, and not for the select few with good internet, reflexes, what have you, to get to be greedy and hoard. (not saying everyone would, but its likely that a lot of Hollies would go that route)

Edited October 30, 2017 by EscapistLore

[deleted]

Alright, because I've seen many interpretations, I'll make this clear: raising the limit of CB Holidays/Valentines (at least for the old ones) to 4 would:

- not let out of the Holiday people with 2 CBs

- give the chance to people who have frozen their CB to get another adult

- give the chance to certain people to have 2 Pacified and 2 Enraged Aegises for breeding purposes

- give the chance to certain people to have 2 Yellow and 2 Rosy Solstices for breeding purposes

- keep people from keeping older eggs from cave (Hollies, Yulebucks, Valentines)

 

However, this is not the place to discuss the topic of Sweetling, Snow Angel alternations.

 

Just imagine if the limit is removed: everyone will hunt Hollies, not everyone will even be able to get eggs because of the aglomeration, the site will mostly be laggy, and it will make Christmas a greedy fest!

[Infinis]

I would love a rerelease of christmas and vday dragons but with limits...the only things I'm missing for christmas are yules and hollies, which is exactly what everyone else and their dog will be after too, in the event of a rerelease. It would be nice to actually have a shot at getting two cbs, instead of competing with literally everyone who wants to be locked with cb hollies. v: I wouldn't mind a limit increase to four but the insanity of a halloween-style unlimited release at the most time-crunched part of the year for many people would be annoying and disappointing to say the least, at least to me.