ANSWERED:Lift CB Valentine / Christmas Limit?

[Moonlight_Eevee]

I say no to the unlimited rereleases for the CB Christmas/Valentine Dragons. I'm a mobile user and if the rules were lifted, it's going to cost me an arm and a leg to get at least one Holly. Four maybe, but you got to think about the people with bad internet connection and are on mobile. 

[Dragon_Arbock]

24 minutes ago, EscapistLore said:

 

But it's a holiday. The spirit is supposed to be giving - it's -not- supposed to be like Halloween where everyone grabs as much candy as they can. People have lives and may not be able to sit at a computer for hours upon hours to get their favorite breed.

 

Would a limit of 4 CB winter holiday dragons.. really.. ruin it for you? I can only speak for myself, and feel that if TJ could implement a limit like that on CBs, it wouldn't ruin it. It'd actually make it easier and less stressful for me - And I don't really have fears over myself being able to catch Hollies. I worry for those who can't.

 

This is a very valid concern, unfortunately, and I'm not thinking of myself when I bring this up. You can trade for CB golds year round. You can't with Hollies, just as a 2G gold is worth.. well, little (to me) whereas spriters alt owners, prize owners, and everyone and their mother/brother/second cousin once removed, agrees that 2G Hollies are nigh unobtainable and have a high trading worth.

 

And again, Halloween -doesn't- have a Holly equivalent. I don't see people often really going and filling up scrolls with CB Pumpkins (Which is a shame, but even marrows really weren't 'hoarded' by many). Yet, I guarantee this, there will be people who come and fill up scrolls with nothing but CB Hollies, and there will be a lot more of those than what happened this Halloween.

 

I'm in favor of raising the limit. Maybe.. +2 CB every year? Or something. But I want the limit kept so everyone can get what they want, and so it's not a, "Grab as much candy as you can cause its halloween" type deal. I want -everyone- to get what they want, and not for the select few with good internet, reflexes, what have you, to get to be greedy and hoard. (not saying everyone would, but its likely that a lot of Hollies would go that route)

Don't speak for others either. You don't know what other people want. But here, look at it this way. 

Yeah, limiting CBs specifically would cause me problems. Way back when, I froze some of mine, cause we could only have two ever, and I'm one of those people who wants to collect a frozen version of the hatchlings as well. So if we impose a limit on past holiday CBs, I'm either going to have to get rid of that hatchling (which I don't want to, I'm attached to them), or deal with only having 3 adults while many others have 4. Maybe a cumulative limit could work, where you can grab 2 more CBs each year of the same breeds, but I don't want a flat only 4 ever limit. And when most of these dragons besides Hollies and maybe Yules aren't that rare, I don't think it's really good to have such a strict limit.

Edited October 30, 2017 by Dragon_Arbock

[HeatherMarie]

So an increase in limit to 4, or even a 2-more-CBs-each-year type of thing, may be the best way to go here. Obviously some people would like unlimited, but many people have pointed out the issues with that, whereas a slight increase in limits wouldn't have those same issues.

[Dragon_Arbock]

1 minute ago, Marie19R said:

So an increase in limit to 4, or even a 2-more-CBs-each-year type of thing, may be the best way to go here. Obviously some people would like unlimited, but many people have pointed out the issues with that, whereas a slight increase in limits wouldn't have those same issues.

I would only accept +2 each year. Only 4 ever is limiting, and after a year or two I could see most people not having a use for the past-CBs biome cause they literally won't be able to use it. They won't even be to catch and gift.

[HeatherMarie]

But there are new players joining all the time (just look at the introductions sub-forum), so there will always be people who need past-years CBs. But yeah, I'd be totally cool with a 2 each year increase. Still enough of a limit to make things not unbearably difficult for people with bad connections and slow reflexes, but enough of an increase to make most people happy (I'd think).

[EscapistLore]

3 minutes ago, Dragon_Arbock said:

Don't speak for others either. You don't know what other people want. But here, look at it this way. 

Yeah, limiting CBs specifically would cause me problems. Way back when, I froze some of mine, cause we could only have two ever, and I'm one of those people who wants to collect a frozen version of the hatchlings as well. So if we impose a limit on past holiday CBs, I'm either going to have to get rid of that hatchling (which I don't want to, I'm attached to them), or deal with only having 3 adults while many others have 4. Maybe a cumulative limit could work, where you can grab 2 more CBs each year of the same breeds, but I don't want a flat only 4 ever limit. And when most of these dragons besides Hollies and maybe Yules aren't that rare, I don't think it's really good to have such a strict limit.

 

I can speak for those I've talked to, and all of them I have share my sentiments. However, you are right in that I can't speak for everyone, and I do primarily speak for myself. I would love a 2+ a year CB limit, I'd be OK with that.  I do seem to remember TJ saying a while ago that coding difficulty should not determine our suggestions, as he's the only one who knows how difficult it will be. I want to find the best solution for everyone, and I really feel that unlimited would ruin it for more folks than it would help..

 

I feel that Christmas is about giving. It's about being generous and not being greedy, isn't it? While, let's say Snows, aren't that rare, there are still newbies who will jump at them, because they don't have any yet! (Again, sourced from talking with others.) They'd probably end up being cave blockers, sure, since they're the newest, but it makes sure that everyone who wants them, can get them. It can be a super hectic time of year for people and I think that requiring people to spend hours and hours and hours trying to get eggs that, due to connections or reflexes or hardware or other holiday related issues (of which there are probably a lot), just to get that one Holly egg they've been dreaming of... I don't think that's keeping the spirit of the season.

 

At the same time, while I do understand your concerns about the hatchlings, you'd still be able to get more adults, and it is your choice to keep the hatchlings or not. This would allow you to at least have a pair, though, and heck, if I had 4 CB holidays I'd be waaaay more likely to gift the offspring than just two. 2+ a year would work for me, too! 

 

 

[Fuzzbucket]

40 minutes ago, Infinis said:

I would love a rerelease of christmas and vday dragons but with limits...the only things I'm missing for christmas are yules and hollies, which is exactly what everyone else and their dog will be after too, in the event of a rerelease. It would be nice to actually have a shot at getting two cbs, instead of competing with literally everyone who wants to be locked with cb hollies. v: I wouldn't mind a limit increase to four but the insanity of a halloween-style unlimited release at the most time-crunched part of the year for many people would be annoying and disappointing to say the least, at least to me.

 

I agree - though I also "need" angels. I think limits are essential

31 minutes ago, Marie19R said:

So an increase in limit to 4, or even a 2-more-CBs-each-year type of thing, may be the best way to go here. Obviously some people would like unlimited, but many people have pointed out the issues with that, whereas a slight increase in limits wouldn't have those same issues.

 

I think 2 more CBs per year won't fly - TJ said ages ago in a thread about raising the limits that he would never (yes I KNOW, but he seemed very determined at the time) allow anything involving MATH !

[Dragon_Arbock]

I would say not to bring up things TJ has said as an automatic no to things, because he has changed his mind in the past. The whole point is to discuss what we would want and not shutting down ideas. If the overwhelming consensus is that +2 a year is a good idea, he may try to work with that.

If +2 is not viable for code reasons though, I'd rather have unlimited than limited.

[Moonlight_Eevee]

No no no. I do not support the limits being lifted at all. How would you guys feel if you have cruddy internet and trying to catch a Holly and you can't grab any because everyone else is catching Hollies because the limit has been lifted? 

[EscapistLore]

27 minutes ago, Dragon_Arbock said:

I would say not to bring up things TJ has said as an automatic no to things, because he has changed his mind in the past. The whole point is to discuss what we would want and not shutting down ideas. If the overwhelming consensus is that +2 a year is a good idea, he may try to work with that.

If +2 is not viable for code reasons though, I'd rather have unlimited than limited.

I have a question for you. Im honestly curious.

 

Let us take ourselves out of the equation. Let us say you and I, cannot get any holidays this year due to xyz (just to remove ourselves, i want us to think about what we want for others and not for ourselves.)

 

People, like Dalek, do play on mobile and have a hard time catching. Others have horrid internet, and all this is readily agreed upon, right?

 

Now, objectively (remember, you and I cannot get eggs), I would look at the situation and think, hmm. Well, it doesnt seem fair to let those who can hoard things to do so, on this season. Oh man, I wish I could get eggs, but I hope everyone else can.

 

Now, for me, this line of thought leads to the idea that I want everyone to get a chance to catch the hollies instead of a certain number who might get them all and others none. The same could go for other breeds, like yulebucks.

 

Objectively, what would you want? I am genuinely curious and trying to understand your logic so maybe we can find a solution we all can be OK with.

[Dragon_Arbock]

If you or anyone can only play on mobile, this was a bad game to decide to play. First world problems and all that, but really? Pick something to dedicate time to that you're not at a horrible disadvantage from at the start. 
Also, maybe Christmas means that to you, but it really doesn't mean that to me.- And valentines certainly doesn't mean that to me. They are both two highly commercialized holidays and nothing more. And this is just a game. A game about collecting and hording things. Nobody's even being grateful that CBs are back, they're just thinking about how to place restrictions on other players. Even if I cannot get eggs, I would not want to limit other players who can. The one thing that keeps many people interested in this game is lineage projects, and limiting the amount of dragons people can get hurts that- and being able to build a strong CB base of your own means you don't have to depend on other, unreliable people to build the lineages.
Objectively, I want people to have freedom. Not be held back because some players are internet-disadvantaged.

[EscapistLore]

1 minute ago, Dragon_Arbock said:

If you or anyone can only play on mobile, this was a bad game to decide to play. First world problems and all that, but really? Pick something to dedicate time to that you're not at a horrible disadvantage from at the start. 
Also, maybe Christmas means that to you, but it really doesn't mean that to me.- And valentines certainly doesn't mean that to me. They are both two highly commercialized holidays and nothing more. And this is just a game. A game about collecting and hording things. Nobody's even being grateful that CBs are back, they're just thinking about how to place restrictions on other players. Even if I cannot get eggs, I would not want to limit other players who can. The one thing that keeps many people interested in this game is lineage projects, and limiting the amount of dragons people can get hurts that- and being able to build a strong CB base of your own means you don't have to depend on other, unreliable people to build the lineages.
Objectively, I want people to have freedom. Not be held back because some players are internet-disadvantaged.

And I think this is where we fundamentally disagree. TJ has said the winter holidays are more about giving than being greedy. No limits, would be limiting to those who arent as lucky as you are.

 

We are grateful. And we wanna make sure everyone gets the chance to be grateful, if the winter and vday rereleases actually happen.

[Dragon_Arbock]

I'm not lucky. But limits actually hurt and deter people from being generous. There are lots of nice people who catch and gift CBs to people who cannot catch themselves. If you force a limit people will not be able to do that. I am not usually a gifter, but ADP mentioned this already in the thread themselves.

[Moonlight_Eevee]

4 minutes ago, Dragon_Arbock said:

I'm not lucky. But limits actually hurt and deter people from being generous. There are lots of nice people who catch and gift CBs to people who cannot catch themselves. If you force a limit people will not be able to do that. I am not usually a gifter, but ADP mentioned this already in the thread themselves.

But the thing is, you can always gift the two away and then simply catch more before gifting those two away to someone less fortunate! There's no reason to disrespect mobile users and say oh well, too bad that the game isn't built for mobile devices. It is actually easier to catch eggs on mobile than it is on PC. If anything, I would rather see it raised to a limit of 4 CB holidays. 

[EscapistLore]

6 minutes ago, Dragon_Arbock said:

I'm not lucky. But limits actually hurt and deter people from being generous. There are lots of nice people who catch and gift CBs to people who cannot catch themselves. If you force a limit people will not be able to do that. I am not usually a gifter, but ADP mentioned this already in the thread themselves.

Well. I do gift! Theres a reason I only have one CB mistletoe - the other was given to a user who missed the event entirely due to family things. I'd be able to gift just fine.

 

In addition you suggested that no limits were needed so people could breed for themselves, then say its needed for gifts.. Please note, I do support raising it to 4.

 

Also - we can't say, 'oh, mobile,user, cant enter the raffle. oh, mobile users are scrubs who shouldnt play' (note - overdramatization and i do not claim anyone has said this, could also,insert bad internet or physical,disabilities or work schedules. you get the point) So we can't discriminate against them now and say Oh, welp. sorry, get a computer. oh, sorry, shouldnt have played a game you wont be the best at, etc etc.

[Dragon_Arbock]

2 minutes ago, Dalek Raptor said:

But the thing is, you can always gift the two away and then simply catch more before gifting those two away to someone less fortunate! There's no reason to disrespect mobile users and say oh well, too bad that the game isn't built for mobile devices. It is actually easier to catch eggs on mobile than it is on PC. If anything, I would rather see it raised to a limit of 4 CB holidays. 

You can't gift eggs from a previous year. Yeah, you can do that with the current year but say, I have two CB Solstices, I can't then go catch and gift another CB Solstice if the limit stays 2. Also, Solstices have two forms now, they have the Blue Wing Variant too. That's another issue where if it stays 2, I can't have both without releasing one of my existing ones.

 

And I'm not disrespecting, but I'm not going to cater to mobile users when the site was built first and foremost for desktop. It is nonsensical to put a limit in place just to help mobile users.

[deja]

why would you gift someone a cb holiday if they can catch them themselves? if the limit is two its pretty easy to catch anything

[DragonWhispererLady]

I am thrilled and grateful for chance to get previous CB dragons ans would also be grateful if we could get xmas and vday. If this would be within current limits - well, that would be for 2 BETTER than current situation (none). Perhaps limit could be raised on 4 (especially because reasons of "old" owners).   But seems to me that limits give us freedom to  catch and play  easy instead of being hectic.

[Moonlight_Eevee]

2 minutes ago, Dragon_Arbock said:

You can't gift eggs from a previous year. Yeah, you can do that with the current year but say, I have two CB Solstices, I can't then go catch and gift another CB Solstice if the limit stays 2. Also, Solstices have two forms now, they have the Blue Wing Variant too. That's another issue where if it stays 2, I can't have both without releasing one of my existing ones.

 

And I'm not disrespecting, but I'm not going to cater to mobile users when the site was built first and foremost for desktop. It is nonsensical to put a limit in place just to help mobile users.

If it was raised to a limit of four, then yes, it would be helpful and yes, it was created for Desktop at first but please think about it. What if you were the one who had to resource to mobile because you have no internet or computer. I do find it easier to use mobile now than PC because I've been on Mobile for the longest time now. 

[TCA]

I'm for keeping a limit, but also support raising it, assuming a CB rerelease--2 is too small of a limit to encourage generosity between players. In fact... I'm going to propose something a bit unorthodox.

 

I'm going to propose a CB limit of 5.

 

5 is not an even number, nor is it a particularly useful one for lineage-building, unlike 4. So, I'd be willing to wager that once people get their fill of 4 keepers to breed, they're more likely to use that ability to still hold a 5th to catch and gift CBs to others. Some people probably wouldn't care that 5 is uneven and keep a whole 5, but they'll still hit a limit and be out of the running while able to enjoy the rerelease.

[Shadowdrake]

41 minutes ago, Dragon_Arbock said:

If you or anyone can only play on mobile, this was a bad game to decide to play. First world problems and all that, but really? Pick something to dedicate time to that you're not at a horrible disadvantage from at the start. 

As opposed to what? Video games? Browser games? Games that otherwise need a computer or console to play on? Or are you referring to mobile games which are nothing like DC?

DC has a mobile layout, so saying DC is not a good game for mobile is fundamentally incorrect.

 

41 minutes ago, Dragon_Arbock said:

Also, maybe Christmas means that to you, but it really doesn't mean that to me.- And valentines certainly doesn't mean that to me. They are both two highly commercialized holidays and nothing more. And this is just a game. A game about collecting and hording things. Nobody's even being grateful that CBs are back

Like you said, speak for yourself. Many people are grateful for the CBs, but many people would also like to not spend days attempting to catch a dragon or two when they have Real Life Obligations. (This is not an exaggeration--I know some people who needed days to be able to get a CB halloween--not even a pumpkin, just any halloween--out of the biome.)

If a person can catch rare and desirable dragons easily, they either have good internet, good computer, or lots of free time. Some people do not. I would rather let everyone get what they want rather than a lucky few, or even a lucky most, especially when these events are time-limited and only occur once a year.

That's alright that Christmas and Valentine's don't mean anything to you, but others have families and significant others who are, y'know, kind of more important than pixel dragons. DC holidays is a bonus. I'd rather not see it turn into extra stress instead.

 

41 minutes ago, Dragon_Arbock said:

The one thing that keeps many people interested in this game is lineage projects, and limiting the amount of dragons people can get hurts that- and being able to build a strong CB base of your own means you don't have to depend on other, unreliable people to build the lineages.

As someone who only collects CBs and builds lineages by myself entirely, I would rather have a small subset of dragons be limited in availability and have to work around limits (and be able to pick up new CBs) than have the "freedom" to get as many as I want or need, but be unable to catch them.

 

11 minutes ago, Dragon_Arbock said:

Also, Solstices have two forms now, they have the Blue Wing Variant too. That's another issue where if it stays 2, I can't have both without releasing one of my existing ones.

Blue-winged solstices are bred-only, unless TJ changed something (which I doubt because they're not even in the dragonopedia). They should not have any input on CB limits.

 

 

If anything, I would like an upping to limit 4 per breed if CBs are to be re-released. Most people will have their limit of the newer holidays already, but a mixed biome is a different kettle of fish from a single-breed biome. The mixed biome will have cave-blockers where people are unable to move things once newbies get their fill of eggs. Not to mention limited dragons are the only holiday dragons so far to have multiple sprites (like aegises). Also, like someone said, 4 is the minimum of eggslots anyone can have.

Edit: 5 is nice too, sure.

Edited October 30, 2017 by Shadowdrake

[EscapistLore]

1 minute ago, TCA said:

I'm for keeping a limit, but also support raising it, assuming a CB rerelease--2 is too small of a limit to encourage generosity between players. In fact... I'm going to propose something a bit unorthodox.

 

I'm going to propose a CB limit of 5.

 

5 is not an even number, nor is it a particularly useful one for lineage-building, unlike 4. So, I'd be willing to wager that once people get their fill of 4 keepers to breed, they're more likely to use that ability to still hold a 5th to catch and gift CBs to others. Some people probably wouldn't care that 5 is uneven and keep a whole 5, but they'll still hit a limit and be out of the running while able to enjoy the rerelease.

And this would allow those with a frozen hatchling to still get a full 4, two pairs.

 

I'd love this, more than 4, tbh.

[Moonlight_Eevee]

1 minute ago, EscapistLore said:

And this would allow those with a frozen hatchling to still get a full 4, two pairs.

 

I'd love this, more than 4, tbh.

I second it

[DragonWhispererLady]

2 minutes ago, TCA said:

I'm for keeping a limit, but also support raising it, assuming a CB rerelease--2 is too small of a limit to encourage generosity between players. In fact... I'm going to propose something a bit unorthodox.

 

I'm going to propose a CB limit of 5.

 

5 is not an even number, nor is it a particularly useful one for lineage-building, unlike 4. So, I'd be willing to wager that once people get their fill of 4 keepers to breed, they're more likely to use that ability to still hold a 5th to catch and gift CBs to others. Some people probably wouldn't care that 5 is uneven and keep a whole 5, but they'll still hit a limit and be out of the running while able to enjoy the rerelease.

 

Good idea! 

[lulu_witch]

Personally, I actually like the limits. I feel that limits are helpful in ensuring that everyone has a chance at CB's. Once the faster clickers get their fill the rest of us then stand a chance to catch them for ourselves. I don't agree that limits stop gifting, sure for past years but the limit itself ensures that really it's not necessary.
I understand that limits are in contrast to the rest of the game in that you can hoard as many CB's of whatever breed you like but I feel that they make the holidays more fair and less stressful worrying that you won't get anything, especially when you might have family commitments at that time of year. I also think we have to be considerate to the entire player base, not just those with a PC. 

I would like to see the limits raised from 2 to 4 but honestly, I'd just be grateful to see them return more than anything.