ANSWERED:Lift CB Valentine / Christmas Limit?

[DragonLady86]

I love the argument "Christmas is about giving, Halloween is about being greedy!".  That might have been the logic behind the different limits, but it's had the opposite effect on the cave community.  The unlimited Halloweens have led players to be FAR FAR more generous to other players not only in the past, but this year as well.  Christmas and Valentines, everyone only thinks about themselves and what best benefits their ability to get what they need.

 

Some factors we can not account for: some people will always have slower internet, some people will always have more family stuff going on and less time to hunt, some people do not have a computer and have to use their phone.  This is not something to base any decisions on, because someone is ALWAYS going to be left out no matter what we do.  Players experiences are not the same. Example: before my ancient laptop from college died it had the crappiest internet ever, yet I caught more nice stuff with it then I still mange with my newer/faster PC.

 

I still say we need to see if getting old CBs back is going to happen first, before we try to dictate how it should change.  But try this:  take Hollies out of the equation.  If "omg-super-rare-much-trade-value" dragon is taken out of the idea: how would you limit or not limit these holidays.  Because everything else will lose a lot of the hype pretty quick.  Hollies will take a few more years, but they will get there, so don't plan for them.  And if you do, so what if a player gets 8 of them and you don't.  That's 8 more CB's that will be making short lineages next year. The big hype with hollies is they are so old and the player base so much larger than it was, that many of the players aren't even around anymore.  So anything that gets more into circulation, is still a good thing.  Don't plan for that trading power that hollies have now, there is no way to add a chance for more hollies for everyone AND keep that trade value.  So don't look at hollies when making plans for what you want/don't want to see happen.

[Imzadi]

16 minutes ago, Dragon_Arbock said:

And I'm not disrespecting, but I'm not going to cater to mobile users when the site was built first and foremost for desktop. It is nonsensical to put a limit in place just to help mobile users.

When the site was built, we could have 4 caught eggs plus a 5th egg could be bred...total limit was 9 things.   Time of death was in some odd increments of 0.12,  0.24,  0.36 etc.  We used to trade by code catching and had no lineage view, or incubate or influence.  Things change and so does DC.  Earlier you said don't go by something TJ09 said in the past.   Neither should we be limited to playing by a device that was the sole possible way to play in the past.

 

I am not in favor of lifting limits.  Increasing to 4 would be fine with me, and if I need to make a lineage bigger than that, I can find people to help.  If I choose not to do that, it is my choice, much as choosing to play on a desktop or not.

 

Actually, TCA has a pretty unique idea there, and not a b ad one.

[EscapistLore]

3 minutes ago, DragonLady86 said:

I love the argument "Christmas is about giving, Halloween is about being greedy!".  That might have been the logic behind the different limits, but it's had the opposite effect on the cave community.  The unlimited Halloweens have led players to be FAR FAR more generous to other players not only in the past, but this year as well.  Christmas and Valentines, everyone only thinks about themselves and what best benefits their ability to get what they need.

 

Some factors we can not account for: some people will always have slower internet, some people will always have more family stuff going on and less time to hunt, some people do not have a computer and have to use their phone.  This is not something to base any decisions on, because someone is ALWAYS going to be left out no matter what we do.  Players experiences are not the same. Example: before my ancient laptop from college died it had the crappiest internet ever, yet I caught more nice stuff with it then I still mange with my newer/faster PC.

 

I still say we need to see if getting old CBs back is going to happen first, before we try to dictate how it should change.  But try this:  take Hollies out of the equation.  If "omg-super-rare-much-trade-value" dragon is taken out of the idea: how would you limit or not limit these holidays.  Because everything else will lose a lot of the hype pretty quick.  Hollies will take a few more years, but they will get there, so don't plan for them.  And if you do, so what if a player gets 8 of them and you don't.  That's 8 more CB's that will be making short lineages next year. The big hype with hollies is they are so old and the player base so much larger than it was, that many of the players aren't even around anymore.  So anything that gets more into circulation, is still a good thing.  Don't plan for that trading power that hollies have now, there is no way to add a chance for more hollies for everyone AND keep that trade value.  So don't look at hollies when making plans for what you want/don't want to see happen.

Thats true. Some people will miss out. That also doesnt mean we want to require people sit at their computer all day over Christmas (if you celebrate) instead of being with family? Christmas and vday are typically less stressful than is Halloween. 

 

As another note - It isnt the trading value of Hollies that make them desirable for everyone. Just scroll goals, 99% of people are missing cbs.

 

I dunno about you, but I'd really like everyone be able to breed their own lineages with the hollies instead of have some people just look on longingly while others can breed a ton. Yeah, we definitely want them in circulation, but I think everyone getting.. 5, for eg, is best, rather than the hecticness that holly hunting will be without those limits.

 

So I dont think we can take the Hollies out of the equation, as thats not being considerate to the people who would miss out this year (again, my opinion. i dont speak for others)

[Dragon_Arbock]

26 minutes ago, Dalek Raptor said:

If it was raised to a limit of four, then yes, it would be helpful and yes, it was created for Desktop at first but please think about it. What if you were the one who had to resource to mobile because you have no internet or computer. I do find it easier to use mobile now than PC because I've been on Mobile for the longest time now. 

Just cause you can 'get by' on mobile does not make it a good choice for the game. If I only had mobile to play on, I would not play this game- a game that was intended for users to catch dragons and put the codes in the signatures of forums on a computer and has long since outlived that.

 

@Shadowdrake the mobile versions exists out of obligation. Just because it exists, doesn't make it good. The World Ends With You got a mobile port. It's awful and not at all the way the original DS game was meant to be played. In a better related example- Kingdom Hearts X. That was a Browser game they turned into a mobile catastrophe.

Mobile only works when a game was made for it first and foremost, otherwise the fact that you can play it at all on a phone is an afterthought. Computers have the advantage of F5 to quickly reload biome pages, and middle click, which lets you try and catch something without actually navigating away from the biome page, cause it opens the page in a new tab. Mobile is in inherently at a disadvantage for lacking this, so I do consider playing on mobile to be handicapping yourselves.

 

Just because a minority percentage of players are hurt by their dependency on mobile, I don't think that should ruin it for everyone who isn't.

 

When the site was built, we could have 4 caught eggs plus a 5th egg could be bred...total limit was 9 things.   Time of death was in some odd increments of 0.12,  0.24,  0.36 etc.  We used to trade by code catching and had no lineage view, or incubate or influence.  Things change and so does DC.  Earlier you said don't go by something TJ09 said in the past.   Neither should we be limited to playing by a device that was the sole possible way to play in the past.

 

I am not in favor of lifting limits.  Increasing to 4 would be fine with me, and if I need to make a lineage bigger than that, I can find people to help.  If I choose not to do that, it is my choice, much as choosing to play on a desktop or not.

 

Actually, TCA has a pretty unique idea there, and not a b ad one.

I know, I was around for all of this. But mobile is inferior. Anyone who plays on it is only limiting themselves. It's not a limit set by the game, and I'm for removing limits, not adding to them.

We used to have a ban on rare x rare breeding because it was 'hurting the ratos' too much. We don't have that anymore. People who can't catch rares because of overbreeding just have to deal with it now.

Edited October 30, 2017 by Dragon_Arbock

[EscapistLore]

2 minutes ago, Dragon_Arbock said:

Just cause you can 'get by' on mobile does not make it a good choice for the game. If I only had mobile to play on, I would not play this game- a game that was intended for users to catch dragons and put the codes in the signatures of forums on a computer and has long since outlived that.

 

@Shadowdrake the mobile versions exists out of obligation. Just because it exists, doesn't make it good. The World Ends With You got a mobile port. It's awful and not at all the way the original DS game was meant to be played. In a better related example- Kingdom Hearts X. That was a Browser game they turned into a mobile catastrophe.

Mobile only works when a game was made for it first and foremost, otherwise the fact that you can play it at all on a phone is an afterthought. Computers have the advantage of F5 to quickly reload biome pages, and middle click, which lets you try and catch something without actually navigating away from the biome page, cause it opens the page in a new tab. Mobile is in inherently at a disadvantage for lacking this, so I do consider playing on mobile to be handicapping yourselves.

 

Just because a minority percentage of players are hurt by their dependency on mobile, I don't think that should ruin it for everyone who isn't.

Ok, going through in order!

 

So. Sure, some games that are ported to other consoles suck. However, the game has evolved and has adapted. So saying that truly isnt.. quite accurate. Its a browser game, not a PC game or a phone game. I dont see anywhere on the site recommending PC. Do you? Link?

 

Also, for the sake of this. Where is your source that mobile users are a minority?

 

In addition, judging by the responses here, limits wont ruin it for everyone. A very large portion of us support a raise to 5 cbs if this is possible.

 

NOW back on topic, please? This isnt a debate over whether the game is suited to mobile or not. Its a debate and suggestion of how we can make everyones next Christmas a great one. So lets focus on that?

[deja]

you can play on mobile just fine. pls....

[Dragon_Arbock]

3 minutes ago, EscapistLore said:

NOW back on topic, please? This isnt a debate over whether the game is suited to mobile or not. Its a debate and suggestion of how we can make everyones next Christmas a great one. So lets focus on that?

I won't say its a large majority of users. I'd have to count, but what, maybe 20-25 people have posted in this thread. some are for limits, others are against. I think this is one of those things where a site wide pool would be more helpful to gauge opinions.

 

But I would like someone to give me a good reason. Not 'spirit of christmas is giving' or 'mobile is slow so you need to stop other people, from taking everything'. If people are going  to use that as a reason, I'm going to tear into mobile.

Edited October 30, 2017 by Dragon_Arbock

[TCA]

IN A MORE RELEVANT VEIN, if Hollies weren't a thing I'd still be supporting a CB limit of 5, because having more dragons to breed from encourages more generosity in breeding, and having an uneven number of slots while HAVING a limit also encourages people to keep 4 and use a spot for gifting. And, raising the limit makes it more fun to see the old dragons back, rather than going "oh, they're back... but I have everything so I guess I'll sit on my butt and breed a few things".

Edited October 30, 2017 by TCA

[EscapistLore]

2 minutes ago, Dragon_Arbock said:

I won't say its a large majority of users. I'd have to count, but what, maybe 20-25 people have posted in this thread. some are for limits, others are against. I think this is one of those things where a site wide pool would be more helpful to gauge opinions.

 

But I would like someone to give me a good reason. Not 'spirit of christmas is giving' or 'mobile is slow so you need to stop other people, from taking everything'. If people are going  to use that as a reason, I'm going to tear into mobile.

We've given you reasons and you've yet to give me a reason that I agree with. I think the same holds true for you, with what I've said. There is no need to tear into anything.

 

People are also very busy during the holidays and a few have posted that adding hecticness during that isnt desirable. Also, there are concerns that we want everyone to be able to get CBs when they are rereleased, not next year or the year after.

 

TCAs limit of 5, seems to me the best suggestion.

[Dragon_Arbock]

Again. The first reason 'spirit of christmas', is fully a reason based only on personal beliefs. Not everyone shares these ideals. It has no gameplay reason behind it. Nothing but ideology.
The second one, we've never put a limit to help people who have inferior internet before. We don't limit people from catching CB rares or anything, even though that too has been suggested before. Most people are too busy to camp for those either. Just cause someone might be busy on the holiday means nothing. We've already extended the lengths of these releases from what they've been previously. If you really really can't find the time, there's probably better things you could be doing than playing DC anyhow. And there are many generous players out there. With just this Halloween rerelease I've caught so many CBs from the AP. People catch them and throw them in there for the people who can't or don't have time to biome camp.

 

If we must have a limit, I'd rather use the +2 limit that goes up each year. Then people can still only take two CBs a year, but you can get more every year.

[Nimrodel]

For what it's worth, I would absolutely support a limit raised to 5.  For some holidays, yes, I'd be happy to use that uneven slot for gifting. For others, I am rather more selfish. I am one of those people with some frozen CB holiday dragons (..wow, I've spent a lot of time regretting that freezing!), but I don't want to abandon the hatchlings either when I've had them so long. A limit that would allow me to keep them, and still get an even number of CB adults, would be absolutely brilliant

[Marrionetta]

The only argument I'm really seeing articulated here for maintaining limits is fear of competition. That isn't a good reason.

[Dragon_Arbock]

3 minutes ago, Nimrodel said:

For what it's worth, I would absolutely support a limit raised to 5.  For some holidays, yes, I'd be happy to use that uneven slot for gifting. For others, I am rather more selfish. I am one of those people with some frozen CB holiday dragons (..wow, I've spent a lot of time regretting that freezing!), but I don't want to abandon the hatchlings either when I've had them so long. A limit that would allow me to keep them, and still get an even number of CB adults, would be absolutely brilliant

That limit would help me keep my CB hatchies from years long past, but yeah it certainly wouldn't help with gifting then.

 

The only argument I'm really seeing articulated here for maintaining limits is fear of competition. That isn't a good reason.

This is kinda what I'm getting at. Even when I ask people to remove themselves from it, then it's 'well think of the other peopel who can't compete'.

Edited October 30, 2017 by Dragon_Arbock

[Moonlight_Eevee]

3 minutes ago, Dragon_Arbock said:

Again. The first reason 'spirit of christmas', is fully a reason based only on personal beliefs. Not everyone shares these ideals. It has no gameplay reason behind it. Nothing but ideology.
The second one, we've never put a limit to help people who have inferior internet before. We don't limit people from catching CB rares or anything, even though that too has been suggested before. Most people are too busy to camp for those either. Just cause someone might be busy on the holiday means nothing. We've already extended the lengths of these releases from what they've been previously. If you really really can't find the time, there's probably better things you could be doing than playing DC anyhow. And there are many generous players out there. With just this Halloween rerelease I've caught so many CBs from the AP. People catch them and throw them in there for the people who can't or don't have time to biome camp.

 

If we must have a limit, I'd rather use the +2 limit that goes up each year. Then people can still only take two CBs a year, but you can get more every year.

Okay, so just for clarification, I managed to catch a Pumpkin egg on the first day in a craze of 150+ people frenzy with inferior internet. Good to know because I'm going to do the impossible and catch a Holly on the first day if they get rereleased with inferior internet

[Dragon_Arbock]

Just now, Dalek Raptor said:

Okay, so just for clarification, I managed to catch a Pumpkin egg on the first day in a craze of 150+ people frenzy with inferior internet. Good to know because I'm going to do the impossible and catch a Holly on the first day if they get rereleased with inferior internet

Hey, if you can do that, then you're only proving that we don't need limits to help you out then.

[KrazyKarp]

Just an idea, it might be stupid but... what about limits based on trophy level? If we get more rereleases, it could be overwhelming to players with lower-level trophies with raised limits due to the slots. I mean, for example, it's our eleventh Christmas dragon this year. If we do the proposed limit of 4, that's 44 CBs if someone wanted to max out on CBs. If your first DC Christmas is with anything below a gold trophy I feel like that's a lot. And holidays are already so full of bred AP dragons. I mean, I found myself overwhelmed with Halloween this year, and I'm a platinum trophy. If Christmas and Valentine's Day is about giving and all, maybe we should make those holidays easier to get into with higher limits? Especially since it doesn't look like DC will go down anytime soon (thankfully!), it'll just get more and more overwhelming for newer players around holidays if we get CB rereleases.

 

I'm not sure if any of that makes sense but I wanted to throw it out there.

[Moonlight_Eevee]

2 minutes ago, Dragon_Arbock said:

Hey, if you can do that, then you're only proving that we don't need limits to help you out then.

The limits exist for a reason well beyond inferior internet. They've always been there when the site was made but I would love to see them raised

[_DeadPool_]

why do y'all need 498794347853907505555555555555 CBs? isn't 2 fine then you can just breed if you want more?

 

Seems kinda simple to me

 

[EscapistLore]

The thing is, yes. Its not for myself I am concerned about competing.

 

I feel that this holiday, whether you believe in the ideals or not - I dont celebrate, so *shrugs* tends to be very busy. People are with families instead of catching pixel eggs and competing. Those that do have some time, may miss out due to no limits. 

 

Yes, its a competition issue. But personally, I would prefer everyone get something, than half the people get everything and the other half nothing. I fear that no limits would cause more players stress and unhappiness, than it would make happy. And we all play games cause they make us happy on some level right? 

[Dragon_Arbock]

I see my family. This doesn't cut into my time that drastically. We eat dinner, exchange present, then leave. And the drops for the CBs will last more than one day. And Valentines day? That problem doesn't exist at all for that holiday.

[EscapistLore]

1 minute ago, Dragon_Arbock said:

I see my family. This doesn't cut into my time that drastically. We eat dinner, exchange present, then leave. And the drops for the CBs will last more than one day. And Valentines day? That problem doesn't exist at all for that holiday.

That may be how it is for you, but that isnt the case for everyone, though :/

[Marrionetta]

Here's the thing; even if a Christmas or Valentine's of years past biome is introduced, people still have to navigate their scroll limits. People can trade eggs they catch, some will be tossed to the AP, the cave will cycle out, and more will be replenished on the hour. Also, even if you don't manage to get a full party of Hollies before the new egg drops, there's still the next year and the year after into perpetuity. The odds are already in favor of active players - pretty much anybody who wanted anything from the Halloween biome got what they wanted - nothing is all that rare. Even something as once-coveted (demand will fall in light of rereleases) as Hollies will eventually hit a saturation point; people will stop grabbing them with as much gusto. I see no reason to preserve past holiday limits to diminish competition - it will eventually become a non issue. Give it like 3 years - no one will care.

[blockEdragon]

25 minutes ago, KrazyKarp said:

Just an idea, it might be stupid but... what about limits based on trophy level? If we get more rereleases, it could be overwhelming to players with lower-level trophies with raised limits due to the slots. I mean, for example, it's our eleventh Christmas dragon this year. If we do the proposed limit of 4, that's 44 CBs if someone wanted to max out on CBs. If your first DC Christmas is with anything below a gold trophy I feel like that's a lot. And holidays are already so full of bred AP dragons. I mean, I found myself overwhelmed with Halloween this year, and I'm a platinum trophy. If Christmas and Valentine's Day is about giving and all, maybe we should make those holidays easier to get into with higher limits? Especially since it doesn't look like DC will go down anytime soon (thankfully!), it'll just get more and more overwhelming for newer players around holidays if we get CB rereleases.

 

I'm not sure if any of that makes sense but I wanted to throw it out there.

We already have limits based on trophy level, and as far as i'm concerned that's all we need.

 

If availability is such an issue (even though it's been super easy to catch eggs after the rush) then how about instead of making something less fun by limiting participation, why not just have the cave drop more per round and have every biome dropping eggs instead of just the one?

 

EDIT:

Quote

Here's the thing; even if a Christmas or Valentine's of years past biome is introduced, people still have to navigate their scroll limits. People can trade eggs they catch, some will be tossed to the AP, the cave will cycle out, and more will be replenished on the hour. Also, even if you don't manage to get a full party of Hollies before the new egg drops, there's still the next year and the year after into perpetuity. The odds are already in favor of active players - pretty much anybody who wanted anything from the Halloween biome got what they wanted - nothing is all that rare. Even something as once-coveted (demand will fall in light of rereleases) as Hollies will eventually hit a saturation point; people will stop grabbing them with as much gusto. I see no reason to preserve past holiday limits to diminish competition - it will eventually become a non issue. Give it like 3 years - no one will care.

^This +100

 

 

Edited October 30, 2017 by blockEdragon

[StarSea]

Just going to put my thought out there, and I'm sure it's probably an extremely rare take on the limits, but...

To me the "Christmas and Valentines are about giving" in relation to the CB limit means encouraging giving offspring. If you only have 2 CBs, and you don't want to inbreed, you're going to have to get help from others with it. While yeah, they might rather trade, there are a lot of nice people who are more than happy to gift their offspring instead. It also encourages connecting to others from the userbase and while I enjoy that DC is rather secluded for the most part, the little dependency and connection that this gives (and can even require) is nice.

The limit doesn't have to mean giving CBs, it can mean giving offspring and helping with lineages by breeding instead. Other than the Christmas, Valentines, and GoN limits, I don't believe there's any other aspect of the site that encourages you to rely on others and be generous with your offspring to directly help others due to limits like this does.

[EscapistLore]

2 minutes ago, Marrionetta said:

Here's the thing; even if a Christmas or Valentine's of years past biome is introduced, people still have to navigate their scroll limits. People can trade eggs they catch, some will be tossed to the AP, the cave will cycle out, and more will be replenished on the hour. Also, even if you don't manage to get a full party of Hollies before the new egg drops, there's still the next year and the year after into perpetuity. The odds are already in favor of active players - pretty much anybody who wanted anything from the Halloween biome got what they wanted - nothing is all that rare. Even something as once-coveted (demand will fall in light of rereleases) as Hollies will eventually hit a saturation point; people will stop grabbing them with as much gusto. I see no reason to preserve past holiday limits to diminish competition - it will eventually become a non issue. Give it like 3 years - no one will care.

And this is true. I still... would hope that if the rereleases happen, that everyone can remember it fondly instead of with sadness. I want the event and rerelease to make as many people as happy as it can.

 

While, its true, with time things will balance out, it'd still be nice imo for more people to be happy.. But, still. good point.