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TJ09

2017-02-14 - Valentine's Day!

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My comments are not because I miss the sprites we had for two days. My comments are *mostly* because these new sprites, no matter *what* sprites they are replacing, are simply not up to DC standards. At least I *hope* this isn't considered DC-standard. There are a lot of things wrong with these sprites, both in anatomy and shading and posing, and I really really hope that they will be tweaked.

Concrit is a lot more helpful if you can actually provide some detail. ;3

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I also wish people would think, really *think* about this.... And remember the Great Fog, the bullet we (barely) dodged with Dovealove, and what nearly happened with the Frills.

 

Do you guys really want something like that to happen again?

 

Cheers!

C4.

Though I've been here for a long time, I think I was away when the Great Fog happened, so no, I don't know of it. I do remember when the Frills were retired, but I wasn't on the forums much then, so I remember it in that way (but I do know the lore, now)

 

However, how can any positive changes ever be made if everyone sinks back in fear, never stating what they dislike because some nebulous Bad Thing will happen because we dared to oppose...something?

 

I agree there is a right way and a wrong way to state negativity. But simply holding it inside is NOT the way it should be handled.

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Though I've been here for a long time, I think I was away when the Great Fog happened, so no, I don't know of it. I do remember when the Frills were retired, but I wasn't on the forums much then, so I remember it in that way (but I do know the lore, now)

 

However, how can any positive changes ever be made if everyone sinks back in fear, never stating what they dislike because some nebulous Bad Thing will happen because we dared to oppose...something?

 

I agree there is a right way and a wrong way to state negativity. But simply holding it inside is NOT the way it should be handled.

Basically my thoughts.

 

And honestly? If you have to threaten people with consequences because they dare have less-than-favorable opinions about something, you might wanna take a step back and consider exactly how that sounds.

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The thing that strikes me so off is both spriters seemed to be very happy and excited their dragons were on site. Something awful must have happened for such a change to happen. As said, I feel for the original artists and whatever happened that caused this. It must be hugely disappointing for them, especially as their first on-site dragon.

 

Perhaps I would understand more if the artists had been silent, or away for a long time. But they weren't, and that is what I find so peculiar.

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The sheer entitlement and the lack of perspective on the part of some is just mind-boggling. Not that I mind, I've got my popcorn and am highly entertained by reading how CRUCIAL it is that we be given an EXPLANATION (beyond the rather discreet and professional one already offered). Has Encyclopedia Dramatical updated their DC article yet?

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I also wish people would think, really *think* about this.... And remember the Great Fog, the bullet we (barely) dodged with Dovealove, and what nearly happened with the Frills.

 

Do you guys really want something like that to happen again?

A lot of people will have no idea what any of those situations were like. You can't think about something if you know nothing about it.

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The thing that strikes me so off is both spriters seemed to be very happy and excited their dragons were on site. Something awful must have happened for such a change to happen. As said, I feel for the original artists and whatever happened that caused this. It must be hugely disappointing for them, especially as their first on-site dragon.

 

Perhaps I would understand more if the artists had been silent, or away for a long time. But they weren't, and that is what I find so peculiar.

Yeah, this is honestly my biggest problem with this whole fiasco. I used to be pretty friendly with one of the spriters on another site years ago, and I don't know how much changed since then, but I remember that they were trying very, very hard with no luck to be able to get an event dragon either here or on that site. It breaks my heart to see that they finally managed to do that, only to have it taken away because of nebulous "circumstances" and have their concept taken and made into...this instead. I can only imagine how I'd feel in a situation like this.

Edited by Derranged

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Concrit is a lot more helpful if you can actually provide some detail. ;3

I've already said and quoted many things. The s1 hatchie looks smooshed, as if there are walls closing in around it. Maybe it's just the pose, but it really does look smooshed, and not in a cutesy way. The tail fluff looks more like the magelight's flame, now, then an actual fail fluff. The eyes look like the bug out, and have the quality that makes me think the animal is scared or alarmed or something. The shading doesn't seem consistent at all, but I can't say much *why* because I suck at shading. The head on both the s1 and s2 looks very big and heavy and doesn't seem like it fits the body at all. The s2 also has the same problem with the eyes, and I can't make out details on the face. I *much* preferred the original that had the pearl in between it's antlers, because as it is now I can hardly see it, and it just blends in with the foot. The adult's neck looks weird, like it shouldn't be able to twist that way or maybe it's just that it's too long. The body looks kind of... disabled in some way, like it's not able to move properly.

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I'm not an in-cave spriter, but if any ever of my sprites got in but then had to be removed - even if I myself requested their removal - I would HATE for their replacements to be imitations of my design. Furious. Obviously I cannot speak for the spriters of these dragons, but I think to replace them with a clone is not ideal.

 

I also couldn't resist...

user posted image

LOL you're the greatest!! I wish I thought of that!

 

 

 

I don't think I'll be giving much more thought to it. Sorry to see people so very one-or-the-other- sided. It's almost like politics, heavy left or heavy right

While I am disappointed in the current sprites in comparison to the previous, I understand something happened and it may very well be best to leave it how it is. Thanks to whoever did the work. I will be looking forward to touch-ups of the sprite and description though!

 

In the meantime.. It is just a game after all rolleyes.gif

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Basically my thoughts.

 

And honestly? If you have to threaten people with consequences because they dare have less-than-favorable opinions about something, you might wanna take a step back and consider exactly how that sounds.

It's not the stating the opinions that's the issue - though saying "the new ones are crap" isn't exactly helpful - it's the strident demands for an explanation. We don't actually have the right to one, and I suspect it is something that we cannot be told.

 

There have been several reasoned posts pointing to anatomy issues (which I don't see, particularly - but then, I'm no artist!) THAT kind of thing is fine, I think.

 

But saying "OMG how dare these artists replace something I liked with something so awful" is rude and gets no-one anywhere. As well as being hurtful to spriters who seem to have had to come up with the new work on very short notice. Who here can honestly say they would have done better in that time ? I can answer that - no-one. BECAUSE - whatever anyone had done, there would have been an outcry - because it's Not What We Had First and we Gotta Have What We Had First.

 

Well, no.

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After reading through several pages of responses when the sprites got switch, and examining the sprites themselves, I have a few thoughts. Yes, I loved the previous sprite also, but I feel as though a decent amount of the backlash is not necessarily because of hating this new sprite, but because of the contrast between what we had and what we have now. The previous ones seemed more slender and elegant, and the new, more sturdy and strong, which is not a bad thing, but in contrast they give off very different 'feels' and therefor different expectations.

 

Secondly, I took the new sprites and put them in paint, then made the entire background black, and I noticed that they actually look pretty nice, it's just that when there is a light color background, it becomes harder to distinguish the finer details of the sprite. It seems to me they actually have little details on par with the sprite we first had.

Edited by Kyann

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It's just a very strange situation. If the originals were unable to be used for some reason, why replace it with such a similar but distorted design? I understand if it was rushed, but then why not just go with a whole other dragon?

Likely that would have caused even more drama. I thought about that for a while, but imagine if they just shifted over to a completely unrelated dragon. Everyone was so excited about finally getting a purple dragon - how would people have reacted if that got yanked away?

 

I do wonder what the case will be with art permissions and spriter's alts this year, though. It's rather sad that in the end, nobody's dragon got in.

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Why not another purple dragon then, but something with a totally different design? I'd just feel really off if they were my dragons and they were being so closely imitated.

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You know, I kinda like the awkward S1 hatches- they do have this look of newborn horses with huge head, wobbly gait... Cute.

S2 are good, really nice. Adults are pretty, not my fav- but pretty.

I also like eggs, more pastel-y, misty, because of warm feelings perhaps? wink.gif

 

 

I understand disappointment, but I would like to say thank you for artists who made those new dragons. You have done well smile.gif

 

Also, I think that any further (tho not precise) explanation would be welcome.

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While I don't think we need an explanation, it sure would be nice to have one. People are naturally curious, and this whole situation is kind of a letdown for everyone who was excited about the old sprites. It's natural to want to know why it happened.

 

I'm sure there's a good reason for this, and while I understand if it can't be disclosed it's still confusing and disappointing to be left wondering.

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I wonder if the spriter's made male and female sprites, but the wrong ones were used.

 

Perhaps they will be influenceable next year, and the males will get that old sprite.

 

 

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Why not another purple dragon then, but something with a totally different design? I'd just feel really off if they were my dragons and they were being so closely imitated.

Then people would be complaining about what you see now - the other one was more deerlike, more elegant, was a better shade of purple... or other things, like how it had gold on it, it had antlers, where did the pearl go, I liked the pearl, etc.

 

If they were changed because something made their original design unusable, then there was no solution that would make everyone happy.

 

Ultimately we won't know how the artists feel about this unless they speak up (and I'm going to guess it's probably not good), but this strikes me as a situation with no good solutions. And no, I don't know what the situation was, but something that requires pulling sprites and whipping up hasty replacements on a site where the tiniest ounce of change is routinely met with excessive hostility is not taken lightly.

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Likely that would have caused even more drama. I thought about that for a while, but imagine if they just shifted over to a completely unrelated dragon. Everyone was so excited about finally getting a purple dragon - how would people have reacted if that got yanked away?

 

I do wonder what the case will be with art permissions and spriter's alts this year, though. It's rather sad that in the end, nobody's dragon got in.

Complete opinion here: it might help smooth over a few feathers if we were given a poll of say three entry choices, and the winning design would be awarded 2 per eligible scroll (those already possessing the Valentine dragon) with a retro catch date. With us being given a say in something, it might diffuse this sitch some.

 

Plus, an artist or artists would receive Alts. I love seeing Alts.

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I tried playing the event adventure on my phone for the first time today, but it was a bit cumbersome and the scroll made it tough to keep up with what I'd done, what the original text was so I stopped until I got a chance to get on my PC. While on the phone, I made the mistake of climbing out of the nest before grabbing a couple things, if not more.

 

Is there a way back in? I tried climb nest, enter nest, climb branch, climb branches and a few other variations and none work. Thanks!

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I tried playing the event adventure on my phone for the first time today, but it was a bit cumbersome and the scroll made it tough to keep up with what I'd done, what the original text was so I stopped until I got a chance to get on my PC. While on the phone, I made the mistake of climbing out of the nest before grabbing a couple things, if not more.

 

Is there a way back in? I tried climb nest, enter nest, climb branch, climb branches and a few other variations and none work. Thanks!

I don't think so, but when you get to the end you can replay it to do anything you skipped by accident the first time. smile.gif

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The sheer entitlement and the lack of perspective on the part of some is just mind-boggling. Not that I mind, I've got my popcorn and am highly entertained by reading how CRUCIAL it is that we be given an EXPLANATION (beyond the rather discreet and professional one already offered). Has Encyclopedia Dramatical updated their DC article yet?

Uh yeah this? You'd think people paid 500 dollars a pixel from their life savings of 1000 dollars for the old sprites. The entitlement is horribly amazing.

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I've already said and quoted many things. The s1 hatchie looks smooshed, as if there are walls closing in around it. Maybe it's just the pose, but it really does look smooshed, and not in a cutesy way. The tail fluff looks more like the magelight's flame, now, then an actual fail fluff. The eyes look like the bug out, and have the quality that makes me think the animal is scared or alarmed or something. The shading doesn't seem consistent at all, but I can't say much *why* because I suck at shading. The head on both the s1 and s2 looks very big and heavy and doesn't seem like it fits the body at all. The s2 also has the same problem with the eyes, and I can't make out details on the face. I *much* preferred the original that had the pearl in between it's antlers, because as it is now I can hardly see it, and it just blends in with the foot. The adult's neck looks weird, like it shouldn't be able to twist that way or maybe it's just that it's too long. The body looks kind of... disabled in some way, like it's not able to move properly.

I'm not seeing the issues you are describing. The s1 hatchie just looks like it is standing with its tail up like a deer. It's not like the neck is pulled back awkwardly or anything. It's just a standing position.

 

The floof isn't really a crit of this dragon. AFAIK from comments in this thread, the floof crit is based off a deleted post from an artist of the previous dragon. It's standing up on the hatchie because tails do have muscles and creatures can move their tails, whether the tail is long and flexible or short and mostly just raises and lowers.

 

The hatchie heads do look big but they do not look oversized for the body. The neck matches the head size very well.

 

I scrolled through a dozen other dragons and the eyes on the new dragons and those dragons look the same. There but barely noticeable because eyes are small and sprites are small.

 

Pearl placement is a preference, not a crit. The pearl is very light and between that and the size on the hatchie, it probably could use a darker outline or something to help. I can see it fine on the adult, though, and I bet it really stands out on the portal skin. But a slightly darker outline would probably not hurt on the adult either.

 

The adult is turning its head? Necks look weird when we turn them. But even creatures you don't think of as having very flexible necks can be pretty flexible.

 

"Body looks disabled" isn't particularly helpful, nor do I understand what you mean. I also don't see any "inconsistent shading" personally.

 

Thanks for being a little more detailed where you could, though.

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Complete opinion here: it might help smooth over a few feathers if we were given a poll of say three entry choices, and the winning design would be awarded 2 per eligible scroll (those already possessing the Valentine dragon) with a retro catch date. With us being given a say in something, it might diffuse this sitch some.

 

Plus, an artist or artists would receive Alts. I love seeing Alts.

I guess, but the entries present their own problems - let's say TJ selected his top three picks of Valentines submissions for those. However, now only one can win. Two will be shot down. But the artists behind those concepts may have wanted to resubmit them for a future Valentines/some other project, and as they have been made public, now they cannot do that.

 

Also, people will complain about the ones that didn't win being better than the one we eventually get. And I can see that one getting nasty and critical of each sprite. (Note the only thing 'wrong' with our current situation is that there's mass complaining, so...)

 

As for the alts... I feel like the original artists still should receive them. It might be a bittersweet thing, because odds are they were more attached to the 'first' set of sprites, but conceptualists have gotten artist's alts in the past despite not having actually touched the sprite themselves.

 

It will be really sad if there are no alts this year.

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