We want Forum Feedback!

[TJ09]

So would it be possible to make it 'inside' of the site, so the egg(s) could go away?

It was an intentional choice to make it not an "official" feature, so probably not.

[kehf]

So, here is my list, with the old rules I quoted touched up to what I would like to see, as well as tying in some other rules I've seen:

 

•Use One-Ways at your Own Risk. If someone takes the egg and doesn't leave one in return, please do not call anyone out.

•If you take something nice, leave something nice. "Nice" could be a pretty lineage that follows a pattern such as stairstep (example), even gen (example), etc if you leave a common/uncommon. Also applies to common/uncommon hatchlings. Most people generally like hatchlings of any sort.

•The Gifter is allowed to set guidelines to follow, but these do NOT have to be carried out. It's usually nice to do so, but no one is obligated. No one may call out or otherwise harass another user if they don't follow the gifter's wishes.

•PM a Thread Moderator if you have a problem

•If you take something, you must tell that user what you took (via PM/reply)

•Have Thread Moderators to control problems. If you see rule-breaking, please report it to us instead of spamming up the thread with more off-topic replies! Any harassment, either from gifters OR adopters is to be reported.

•This is not a trading thread. While asking for a "dummy" (ex: a random egg/hatchling off the AP) for two-way transfers is fine, asking for specific dummies, even if they are common, is not okay. The two-way "transfer" becomes a trade at that point.

•Any conversation on the thread should center around the gifted eggs and hatchlings and should remain positive. Gifters may not force their wishes for their eggs onto adopters, call out other users for failing to give back, or comment on the outcome of gifts that they found disappointing. The tone of the thread should be welcoming, positive, and generous.

I like these even better than the one's I suggested.

[edwardelricfreak]

I went back and edited them a bit because I misread one of the rules and realized it was basically redundant anyway. That is, the ones about thread moderators. c:

 

I feel like there was something else I wanted to add but I've forgotten what it was.

[Cinnamin Draconna]

It was an intentional choice to make it not an "official" feature, so probably not.

Aww, phooey. Official features are better.

 

Could you at least change the egg link to the lineage link and make it open in a new tab/window? And make it where we can leave hatchlings too?

Edited October 11, 2014 by Cinnamin Draconna

[diaveborn]

I left a hatchling recently, and it showed up in the list and is now off my scroll so I'm assuming it got picked up like eggs would.

[Cinnamin Draconna]

Cool, that wasn't working earlier. I'll try it as soon as I see another egg I'd like to have. Thanks!

 

EDIT: YAY! I can leave hatchlings now. Left two nice cb hatchlings.

Edited October 11, 2014 by Cinnamin Draconna

[Obscure_Trash]

You know, it's possible to give people limited moderator powers. Like for only one section or subsection. So, if TAE/LAE was made into its own section, TJ could give some people modly powers in only that one section. Even without access to the mod section or whatever else there is that I don't know about.

Does one thread really need a whole section to itself, though? o_O

[Pippyspot]

Does one thread really need a whole section to itself, though? o_O

Apparently so, if current forum moderators don't fancy modding it for themselves.

 

As the second owner of Take An Egg, Leave An Egg. I'm honestly disappointed in the whole way the situation was handled. I still think this is a misunderstanding, and as messages have gone unanswered, I'll put my thoughts here.

 

First off, the thread always has been, and always will be, a gifting thread. Yes, two way trades were used to prevent theft, and purely for that reason only. Not to trade, or receive something of equal quality or worth. I'm not really sure where the idea of it being a trade thread came about, if it's purely the use of two way trades, then that's been happening more or less since the thread was first created by Quis. If it's because people are posting trade posts, such as have and want, then it's unlikely they even read the first post and assumed it was a trading thread. These posts get reported to forum mods so they can be removed, as they're not in the spirit of the thread.

 

Secondly, calling out other members isn't something that regular forum users can do anything about. We report it, and mods remove it. It's been posted several times on the thread that users shouldn't be calling out other users, and if that's the case then they should be receiving warnings as Sock originally posted - "Please continue sending reports if you see more posts calling other users out. Just a reminder that calling other users out will mean your post is removed and you will receive a warning." This is exactly what we've done, after being asked to do so.

 

While the new feature on the API thing for taking an egg and leaving an egg gets the core idea, it misses the spirit of the community and helping each other out. There's been several posts from several different users about the closure of it already, and a strong and positive community has been built from that one thread. I honestly thought that promoting sharing and positivity is a good thing, and is it really fair to let just a few people who can't follow rules ruin it for everyone else who has spent time and effort breeding their dragons, hunting in AP and wandering around the cave looking for nice things to give to other people.

 

In summary and I can see this being very controversial, it just sounds to me as if the relevant people who mod the thread can't be bothered with it. If that's the case then I firmly believe it needs its own forum where it can be taken care of by people who care about it.

[Obscure_Trash]

Apparently so, if current forum moderators don't fancy modding it for themselves.

I know this thread has moved very fast, but if you look back to my first post on the issue: we did not mind modding the thread, but when users need constant reminders on the same thing, then the thread is a problem. We modded the thread for quite a while. We gave users many chances to stop the rule breaking. Threads on this forum are a privilege and due to constant rule breaking and ignoring of mod warnings/post edits/etc., that privilege was lost. Yeah, I get that not all of you participated in that, but enough of you did that we received several reports a week on the thread.

 

We mod this forum in our free time. We aren't monetarily compensated or compensated with dragons or whatever. This is what we enjoy doing in our free time. We have a right to say enough is enough and close a thread.

 

Giving the thread a specific group of mods does not solve any of the problems I mentioned as to why the thread was closed. It just puts more people in charge of doing what we were already doing. Our problem isn't time, our problem is that the thread did not improve even after constant chances to do so.

 

I am not putting this on any one person and it certainly wasn't the fault of the OP or any of the people who helped flesh out the thread. It's just how the thread ended up being treated by many, unfortunately. It was not okay with other users (hence the reports) and it was not okay with mods, so the thread was eventually kept closed.

[olympe]

And yet, you're still punishing everyone involved with TAE LAE because you couldn't handle the behavior of some users. On the one hand you're saying that you were willing to handle "the problem" and don't need more people doing so, yet you're keeping the thread closed because of "the problem".

 

You as mods have real power. You can not only warn the people who act against the rules. You can ban them (temporarily or permanently) if said behavior returns. You can ban them (temporarily or permanently) from the trading section (by making it invisible to them) if you get TJ to create some more groups. (Members, Members_ or Members__ wouldn't look too different on the forum for other users if you use spaces instead of these lines. Members_ could be for people banned from the trading section, Members__ for people banned from a different section and so on.)

 

Or you can just choose the simplest route and close a thread many people enjoy and feel all self-righteous about it. Whichever. You know, if you closed the whole forums down, you wouldn't have to do any modding at all. Wouldn't that be simple?

[Quis]

It's a babysitter's job to make the kids they're caring for behave; if the kids won't stop fighting over a certain toy, they take it away.

 

The mods have the job of keeping the forums civil; if they have to do that by taking away one hot spot full of problems, then that is how they're doing their job, not a way of getting out of it.

 

If one thread becomes such a problem that it takes up all the mods' free time just to keep an eye on it (not to mention what it might do to their sanity), the whole forum or section of a forum could suffer from that.

 

I want Take an Egg-Leave an Egg back too, but if I strip the rules down to the bare clear minimum (which I hope the mods will let me do) and people still refuse to take the time to read or follow them? And it continues to be a huge problem that needs to be micromanaged from moment to moment? Then we don't get to keep that toy, nor should we get to.

 

(Edited to fix tongue tied bad phrasing because that's what I get for trying to have a coherent thought this early in the morning.)

Edited October 11, 2014 by Quis

[Ayelldee]

TJ's new thing is ok I guess. I still miss Take/Leave even though there WERE problems with it. This new 'thing' just feels really impersonal and the quality of the eggs being left seems lower somehow. People were genuinely pleased to leave a 2gen Copper or a 5-6gen Shimmer/Tinsel on Take/Leave. So - yeh, I miss it.

[PolarVortex]

TJ's new thing is ok I guess. I still miss Take/Leave even though there WERE problems with it. This new 'thing' just feels really impersonal and the quality of the eggs being left seems lower somehow. People were genuinely pleased to leave a 2gen Copper or a 5-6gen Shimmer/Tinsel on Take/Leave. So - yeh, I miss it.

Yeah... that's how I feel too. I've been trying to get in to it, but it is very impersonal. To me it just feels like a glorified AP.

[brairtrainer]

And yet, you're still punishing everyone involved with TAE LAE because you couldn't handle the behavior of some users. On the one hand you're saying that you were willing to handle "the problem" and don't need more people doing so, yet you're keeping the thread closed because of "the problem".

 

You as mods have real power. You can not only warn the people who act against the rules. You can ban them (temporarily or permanently) if said behavior returns. You can ban them (temporarily or permanently) from the trading section (by making it invisible to them) if you get TJ to create some more groups. (Members, Members_ or Members__ wouldn't look too different on the forum for other users if you use spaces instead of these lines. Members_ could be for people banned from the trading section, Members__ for people banned from a different section and so on.)

 

Or you can just choose the simplest route and close a thread many people enjoy and feel all self-righteous about it. Whichever. You know, if you closed the whole forums down, you wouldn't have to do any modding at all. Wouldn't that be simple?

While I don't think closing the TAE LAE thread was a good idea (even TJ's work around seemed to have issues with people posting two way trades), I think the mods deserve more credit.

 

We're a pretty big forum, and mods retire/don't have time to continue moding as they should to keep the position so they go on haituses.

 

I think the real answer would be to open the mod applications again and get more bodies of people willing and who have the time, therefore taking the strain of mods. (Note in SD where the thread was housed there are only three mods who can moderate that area, Rubyshoes, _Z_ and Sockpuppet Stangler. That's three people for a decent sized section and two of those mods are globals and there fore have to be avalible for other areas as well.)

 

So all in all I think we need more forum mods in order for a thread that would be having the reports noted to be able to continue.

 

There is one other issue I have about it though, the two way trade thing. The departures thread allows people to use two way trades so they can see where their eggs go. Should it be shut down for being a trading not gifting thread? What about the Even gen traders when people gift rare even gen eggs using two way trades for the same reasons?

[olympe]

It's a babysitter's job to make the kids they're caring for behave; if the kids won't stop fighting over a certain toy, they take it away.

 

The mods have the job of keeping the forums civil; if they have to do that by taking away one hot spot full of problems, then that is how they're doing their job, not a way of getting out of it.

 

If one thread becomes such a problem that it takes up all the mods' free time just to keep an eye on it (not to mention what it might do to their sanity), the whole forum or section of a forum could suffer from that.

 

I want Take an Egg-Leave an Egg back too, but if I strip the rules down to the bare clear minimum (which I hope the mods will let me do) and people still refuse to take the time to read or follow them? And it continues to be a huge problem that needs to be micromanaged from moment to moment? Then we don't get to keep that toy, nor should we get to.

 

(Edited to fix tongue tied bad phrasing because that's what I get for trying to have a coherent thought this early in the morning.)

We're talking about several reports per week. Not per day or even per hour. Per week.

 

This action is like closing off a kindergarten's sand box forever because a couple of times a week, someone would throw sand around. Sure, the sand throwing stops - but at what cost? If you think it's worth it - why don't you just tie every child in a kindergarten to a chair and gag them? They won't be throwing sand, they won't be quarreling over toys, and they won't say things they shouldn't. Plus, you won't have to take care that everything is neat and tidy at the end of the day. Win-win.

 

TJ's new thing is ok I guess. I still miss Take/Leave even though there WERE problems with it. This new 'thing' just feels really impersonal and the quality of the eggs being left seems lower somehow. People were genuinely pleased to leave a 2gen Copper or a 5-6gen Shimmer/Tinsel on Take/Leave. So - yeh, I miss it.

Yeah, it's okay. But it's a poor replacement, and I miss the interaction involved with TAE LAE. Which is what kept me gifting. (Well, that and being able to snag something nice on occasion.) I guess I'd better get used to using the trading threads or stop breeding.

 

ETA (for crossposting):

I think the real answer would be to open the mod applications again and get more bodies of people willing and who have the time, therefore taking the strain of mods. (Note in SD where the thread was housed there are only three mods who can moderate that area, Rubyshoes, _Z_ and Sockpuppet Stangler. That's three people for a decent sized section and two of those mods are globals and there fore have to be avalible for other areas as well.)

But Sock said they don't need more people doing their work, and that they're willing to do it and so on.

Edited October 11, 2014 by olympe

[brairtrainer]

But Sock said they don't need more people doing their work, and that they're willing to do it and so on.

Sometimes the people who need extra help, or need the most help are going to be the ones stating they don't need help. I simply noticed what sock was saying in her last post (that modding was done voluntarily, that giving the thread its own mods wouldn't help because of the constant issues) that lead me to believe that we need more mods period.

 

(Though I'm biased because I think we also need description mods but those are site only and would not affect threads like TAE LAE)

 

 

I'd still like to see an answer to trading + gifting threads and the departures thread using two way trades for gifts. If using two way trades for gifting on the forums is not going to be allowed then it shouldn't be allowed anywhere.

[DragonLady86]

 

I'd still like to see an answer to trading + gifting threads and the departures thread using two way trades for gifts. If using two way trades for gifting on the forums is not going to be allowed then it shouldn't be allowed anywhere.

Going to quote my earlier post since people are still asking about the 'trading problem"

 

But "trading" in the thread was very much getting out of hand. I stopped using the thread, because so many people would post a 2-way, have someone offer, delete the offer because it was a dummy, wait a day and post again. (or not deleting the offer and just leaving it sit till one or the other grew up) If you want a nice thing, go to a trading thread. A dummy is supposed to be a randomized egg. I had it done to me, and saw plenty of others not get something because the person wouldn't accept the offer. So, for everyone saying "no trading was happening" this is what was meant. And that is, to me, a far greater violation of the thread rules than "stealing". Because it's not stealing, you offered a gift and chose to use a one-way. It's the other parties egg now and their choice to return the favor or not. You have no say.

 

 

It's not two-way transfers that were a problem. It's the people that were abusing it by picking and choosing what to accept. Which is trading.

[Cinnamin Draconna]

I'm sorry, but to me a two-way transfer is the same thing as a trade. A gift is free and only needs a one-way transfer. The ONLY time a two way should be needed is if the gifter runs out of Teleports.

 

It's like participating in anonymous gifting during the holidays.. everyone puts their name in a hat and then draws out someone else's name. You buy a gift for the random person and HOPE they like it. But inevitably, someone is gonna be disappointed for some reason... someone paid way more than the rules said they should, someone felt the the gift was inappropriate or they just didn't like it and it seems like sour grapes.

 

There's always gonna be someone who doesn't play by the rules.. it's a given.. call it human nature or whatever, but it's gonna happen whether we like it or not.

 

Me, I felt like all the restrictions were interfering with how I play MY game. Putting rules and regs on what is supposed to be a gift means it isn't a gift anymore. All those gotta do this and gotta do thats turns it into a trade and that is NOT what a gifting thread is supposed to be about.

 

TJ's Take/Leave page is EXACTLY what it needs to be. The thread didn't live up to it's premise and turned into just another trading thread. The Mods were 100% correct in closing it down.

 

I actually like the Departures thread better tho, but it's starting to be plagued by the same two-way transfer dummy egg requests too. I wish the Mods would take action on that in there too.

Edited October 11, 2014 by Cinnamin Draconna

[olympe]

Well, two-way transfers became necessary because otherwise, things would be snatched up without anybody giving back to the thread. Which would have killed the whole concept. It's also been a very common occurrence that things from one-way teleports got picked up within minutes of being posted. Very, very often by people who didn't leave anything and had their scroll name hidden so as to prevent them being recognized. On the other hand, I saw many a gift on two-way teleports be sent to the first person posting their contribution for the thread who also offered a random AP egg.

 

And, not TJ's Leave & Take isn't exactly what it needs to be because in the thread, there was a lot of positive interaction, too. Interaction that just felt good. TJ's L&T, however, is very anonymous, not to say sterile. Besides, even TJ's page can be cheated. Ever tried aborting the teleport link you put in there? I'm pretty sure it works. Or offer some random junk.

 

Putting rules on a gift is a double-edged sword. On the one hand, it's a matter of common courtesy to treat your gifts with care. In the case of DC egg, this means (to me) that I neither kill, abandon, trade nor neglect my gift. On the contrary, it often means that I even name and breed the resulting dragon, if I can get my hands on a fitting mate. However, many people haven't learned common courtesy and do things like trade gifts for their gain. Sure, according to the rules, it's not forbidden. However, there's a difference between laws/rules and common courtesy IMHO.

Edited October 11, 2014 by olympe

[Ayelldee]

Ok, I've used it and after some idiotish on my part, it worked smoothly enough and even thanked me for leaving something. Is there an easier way to get to it than having to go back to page 150 in this thread?

[Jazeki]

Well, two-way transfers became necessary because otherwise, things would be snatched up without anybody giving back to the thread. Which would have killed the whole concept. It's also been a very common occurrence that things from one-way teleports got picked up within minutes of being posted. Very, very often by people who didn't leave anything and had their scroll name hidden so as to prevent them being recognized. On the other hand, I saw many a gift on two-way teleports be sent to the first person posting their contribution for the thread who also offered a random AP egg.

 

And, not TJ's Leave & Take isn't exactly what it needs to be because in the thread, there was a lot of positive interaction, too. Interaction that just felt good. TJ's L&T, however, is very anonymous, not to say sterile. Besides, even TJ's page can be cheated. Ever tried aborting the teleport link you put in there? I'm pretty sure it works. Or offer some random junk.

 

If two-way transfers became necessary to keep the thread running, then it's a sign that the thread has to be closed. TAE LEA should have been able to function on good faith. You take something, you leave something. No strings attached. That's what TJ's little tool does. Sure, some of the stuff is dreck or doesn't get picked up in a timely fashion, but it does serve its function of taking an egg and leaving an egg in return or just leaving an egg for that warm fuzzy feeling (or hatchies).

 

The ability to interact does not make TAE LAE inherently better. In the end, people should be gifting to gift, not gifting to get or gifting to talk to other users. That's not the purpose of a gifting thread.

 

I admit that I do occasionally use two-way teleports because I'm too lazy to cancel and re-do a teleport to give an egg away in the departure thread, but I wouldn't mind if they weren't allowed in any gifting thread.

Edited October 11, 2014 by Jazeki

[Fiona]

In my opinion there were enough people giving to the thread that there was never a danger of the thread having nothing for people to pick up. Two-way transfers are gifts with strings, which is no gift at all.

 

I think a thread in trading that uses TJ's TE-LE link could work, because people would still be interacting. You'd post :leaving:whatever with a lineage link then post a one-way trade on his thingy. When you took an egg from there you'd post :taking:whatever, :leaving:whatever, with lineage links. You could then also comment on what you took, such as thanks, and how pretty it is. You could ask, please don't whatever, understanding that once an egg is taken it's no longer yours to dictate what they do with it. There would have to be rules to the effect that you don't say anything in the thread if someone doesn't respect your request on how the egg is treated after they take it or if they take an egg without leaving anything.

 

That wouldn't stop people just cheating TJ's link. He probably could make it cheat-proof, but hasn't at this point. There would probably be people still complaining if people don't treat their gift according to their rules. There would be no two-way links, because teleport links would not be posted in the thread. There would need to be thread mods who kept a gray/black list of people who complained about how their gift was treated, since such complaints would be against thread rules. I don't believe it would be possible to police the TE-LE thing, because you very likely wouldn't know who took the egg without leaving anything. You would have to understand and accept that would happen before you used the thread.

 

Yes, TJ's TE-LE site is a little sterile, since it doesn't involve any interaction between users. It's the best method we have right now, in my opinion. Opening a thread using the rules I am proposing would put the interaction back.

[olympe]

In my opinion there were enough people giving to the thread that there was never a danger of the thread having nothing for people to pick up. Two-way transfers are gifts with strings, which is no gift at all.

The strings being that you're forced to obey the rules set by the thread you decided to take something from.

[F.ury]

That's why I think that asking other users to PM you for the one way transfer link is a good compromise solution for TAE LAE if you are worried about "theft". You aren't asking for anything in return so your offer can in no way be mistaken for a trade, and you can wait to send someone the transfer link until you see them post in the thread and leave something in return.

[whitebaron]

The strings being that you're forced to obey the rules set by the thread you decided to take something from.

Any user who claims these dragons is under no obligation to give you anything in return; this is a one-way transfer.

 

These are the SITE rules, which of course supercede any customary rules you might have in addition to the site rules.