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[F.ury]

I'd be worried about running into the same problems as TAE/LAE did.  It seems to me like the rules are much stricter for gifting than trading threads and that the line between gifting and trading's kind of fuzzy.  Maybe just make it clear in the OP how it works?  Or maybe just call it "Dragon Cave Potluck".  But I think by only allowing 2-way transfers and PMs, we'll eliminate the problem with stealing and, as a result, much of the problem with harassment.  Although it should be made clear that everyone will leave what they can afford and no one is to be insulted for leaving something relatively common.  Maybe recycle the old TAE/LAE list for what is and is not acceptable, but say only the thread mods can comment if someone repeatedly leaves junk eggs?

 

EDIT: The 2-ways are really convenient, but if we start having a problem with trading, we could always make it PM only.

Yes. I think "Dragon Cave Potluck" is the perfect compromise since the thread would be sort of a blend between a trading thread and a gifting thread. And I think recycling the old TAE/LAE list is a really good idea; do we need to get permission from quis and/or Pippyspot before doing that?

 

For me personally, I would stick things like nicely lineaged commons from the AP on one way transfers in the new TAE LAE so I wouldn't need to hold onto them for very long. I don't really care if someone "steals" those kinds of eggs since they came from the AP anyway and they aren't very valuable anyway. For all the rares/more valuable eggs, things I've bred myself, hatchlings, etc. that I want to gift I would use the "Dragon Cave Potluck" thread. And I generally gift a lot more rare eggs than common eggs (I generally only gift commons if I was browsing the AP and happened to find something with a nice lineage).

 

 

 

EDIT II: And since we probably will have people leaving and not taking, maybe give DC newbies one or two freebies while they're getting set up? Or have "free" eggs? I don't mind straight out gifting, so long as I'm aware that's what I'm doing. This would be an awesome problem to have, but it's something to keep in mind if we're going to be eliminating the thief factor. I don't like the idea of forcing people to take something they don't want whenever they want to give something to the thread.

We could always have a breeders list like the old TAE LAE had so we could counter any potential theft, have free eggs for newbies, etc. by making sure that there were always some people who were leaving without taking. I PM'd the new TAE LAE thread and asked about a breeders list. I received a PM back saying that the new TAE LAE did not want to have any sort of breeders list.

Edited October 13, 2014 by F.ury

[Ponie]

I have a feeling that the new TAE LAE is so strict about only using one-way transfers and only in the thread because of some modly regulations: If it's a gifting thread, you have to use one-way transfers, or it would be trading. It's the only explanation that makes any sense to me.

 

So, calling a new thread "Potluck Gifting" while making two-way teleports or one-way teleports given out via PM mandatory would clash with the mods.

 

 

On another note, do we want to add general rules like "no killing, no trading away eggs found here" to the thread? After all, it is possible to blacklist people who don't act accordingly. There's precedence, for example with TGT.

Maybe say it's the gifter's calls? As it was on TAE/LAE. I think no abandoning/killing/neglecting/etc. is really just common courtesy on most trades, but there are grey areas and the policies really depend on the breeder. Generally speaking, when I did TAE/LAE, I left restrictions on bred eggs, even if I didn't own the parents. With CBs on the other hand, I personally don't really care what the recipient does, as there are no relatives to be affected, although taking a CB rare just to kill it is kind of a nasty move.

 

But I am all for having a Black/Grey list for people who fail to honor the gifter's wishes. Or perhaps have a default set of restrictions that the gifter can choose to waive? As I said, I think no killing is just common sense when receiving a gift.

[F.ury]

Maybe say it's the gifter's calls?  As it was on TAE/LAE.  I think no abandoning/killing/neglecting/etc. is really just common courtesy on most trades, but there are grey areas and the policies really depend on the breeder.  Generally speaking, when I did TAE/LAE, I left restrictions on bred eggs, even if I didn't own the parents.  With CBs on the other hand, I personally don't really care what the recipient does, as there are no relatives to be affected, although taking a CB rare just to kill it is kind of a nasty move.

 

But I am all for having a Black/Grey list for people who fail to honor the gifter's wishes.  Or perhaps have a default set of restrictions that the gifter can choose to waive?  As I said, I think no killing is just common sense when receiving a gift.

What if the thread provided a set of acceptable rules to add? That way, when a user leaves a gift, they can add whichever rules from the list they like to their gift. If a user doesn't list any rules when leaving a gift, it's assumed that gift doesn't have any rules to go along with it. This should allow users to add any additional rules they'd like to make sure their gift gets a good home while also making sure that users aren't creating a massive list of very specific rules to follow (You need to name it in ___ fashion, you can only breed it with _____ kinds of dragons, all the offspring must be named, it can only have one mate forever, etc.) because those sorts of rules would not be on the list of acceptable rules. The acceptable rules list could be something like:

 

List of Acceptable Rules (you may add any of the following to your gift when you post it)

- No killing/zombifying

- No biting

- No Neglecting

- No harmful actions (Bite, Kill, Earthquake)

- No abandoning

- No freezing

- No trading

- No regifting

- Must stay on your scroll at all times

- Must give it a name

- Must give it a name (unless it has a really interesting code)

- Gift is only for users who have X amount or less of the breed

- Must leave the first offspring for the thread (no time limits allowed with this as some dragons are not very cooperative, especially when breeding rare X rare)

 

etc., etc. Things like "No inappropriate names" are not allowed on the list because DC Rules and the ToS already cover this.

Edited October 13, 2014 by F.ury

[Ponie]

What if the thread provided a set of acceptable rules to add? That way, when a user leaves a gift, they can add whichever rules from the list they like to their gift. If a user doesn't list any rules when leaving a gift, it's assumed that gift doesn't have any rules to go along with it. This should allow users to add any additional rules they'd like to make sure their gift gets a good home while also making sure that users aren't creating a massive list of very specific rules to follow (You need to name it in ___ fashion, you can only breed it with _____ kinds of dragons, all the offspring must be named, it can only have one mate forever, etc.) because those sorts of rules would not be on the list of acceptable rules.

That sounds good to me. I didn't consider the possibility of people setting rules beyond basic courtesy. Maybe acceptable rules would be: No harmful BSAs, no neglecting, no killing, no freezing, must be named (but what the name is remains entirely in the hands of the new owner).

 

Also maybe "must leave the first offspring to this thread"? I'm thinking particularly of free gifts to newbies, as a way to let newer players participate even if they don't have something to offer immediately.

 

EDIT: I think you actually got all of mine already. But they all sound good, at the discretion of the gifter.

Edited October 13, 2014 by Ponie

[Fuzzbucket]

Maybe say it's the gifter's calls? As it was on TAE/LAE. I think no abandoning/killing/neglecting/etc. is really just common courtesy on most trades, but there are grey areas and the policies really depend on the breeder. Generally speaking, when I did TAE/LAE, I left restrictions on bred eggs, even if I didn't own the parents. With CBs on the other hand, I personally don't really care what the recipient does, as there are no relatives to be affected, although taking a CB rare just to kill it is kind of a nasty move.

 

But I am all for having a Black/Grey list for people who fail to honor the gifter's wishes. Or perhaps have a default set of restrictions that the gifter can choose to waive? As I said, I think no killing is just common sense when receiving a gift.

To be honest there IS no grey area - the site rules are absolutely clear: you have no right to expect ANYTHING about any egg you pass on. Sure it's POLITE not to kill, bite, dump - but you CANNOT require these things. And given that them's the site rules, I don't see how you can blacklist people, really.

[F.ury]

To be honest there IS no grey area - the site rules are absolutely clear: you have no right to expect ANYTHING about any egg you pass on. Sure it's POLITE not to kill, bite, dump - but you CANNOT require these things. And given that them's the site rules, I don't see how you can blacklist people, really.

Threads like TGT greylist and blacklist people for not following an additional set of rules attached to their gifts. Yes, you can't blacklist people from the forums or DC for not following an additional set of thread rules. But you can blacklist them from that specific thread and not allow them to use that thread anymore if they aren't following thread rules.

Edited October 13, 2014 by F.ury

[olympe]

Let's cut the list a little shorter - or some people will have posts where the list of wishes is the longest part of the post.

 

No killing/zombifying

- No biting => covered by "No harmful actions"

- No Neglecting

- No harmful actions (Bite, Kill, Earthquake)

- No abandoning or trading. If you cannot keep it, use this thread to regift it.

- No freezing

- Must stay on your scroll at all times Why? What if wanted to pick something up for my daughter? I know there are whole families playing where only one person has a forum account.

- Must give it a name (Personally, I think this goes too far. Maybe use this as a request? "Please name.")

- Gift is only for users who have X amount or less of the breed. (Would you really deny someone who has numerous messy, inbred gold their first nice-lineaged one?)

 

I think we could even make some of them mandatory thread rules:

- No killing/zombifying/neglecting (unless declared as zombie/ND fodder by the donor).

- No harmful actions.

- No abandoning.

- No trading or gifting outside this thread.

 

Acceptable requests:

- No freezing.

- Please name.

 

Or not?

 

 

Also maybe "must leave the first offspring to this thread"? I'm thinking particularly of free gifts to newbies, as a way to let newer players participate even if they don't have something to offer immediately.

I wouldn't make that a rule, but an option for people who feel that they cannot give back. However, there's always the option to breed nice common checkers (brute x undine...) or CB hatchies or BSA eggs. There's usually a market for them. Edited October 13, 2014 by olympe

[Ponie]

Olympe's shorter list looks good to me and very reasonable. Although I think we should permit gifting outside the thread, so long as it's made clear that it is for a friend/sibling/child/etc. And of course we should note that we have no way of enforcing these and it is always a risk. Repeat offenders will be banned from the thread, but they cannot be reported and should not be harassed as by DC rules they have done nothing wrong.

 

EDIT: And that was along the lines of what I was thinking, in regards to first offspring. Sort of an IOU for new players. Strictly optional, of course.

Edited October 13, 2014 by Ponie

[olympe]

Okay, I'm going to PM rubyshoes about it.

 

Give me some time to get the wording of the rules right.

Edited October 13, 2014 by olympe

[Starscream]

To be honest there IS no grey area - the site rules are absolutely clear: you have no right to expect ANYTHING about any egg you pass on. Sure it's POLITE not to kill, bite, dump - but you CANNOT require these things. And given that them's the site rules, I don't see how you can blacklist people, really.

You actually can't black list people. I don't know why it is still permitted in threads. But you really can't.

 

(TJ09 in Volume Five @ Aug 10 2010, 11:28 PM)Just a general reminder, all forum rules still apply and no one is allowed to "exclude" other members from any thread.

 

 

 

Edit:

In regards to hiding scroll. I have my name off my scroll because I became fedup of people demanding breedings from me. It prevents user harassment and gives prize winners the option to remain anonymous so they are not bombarded with trade or gift demands/offers. I do not see that being removed.

Edited October 13, 2014 by Starscream

[F.ury]

...

- Gift is only for users who have X amount or less of the breed. (Would you really deny someone who has numerous messy, inbred gold their first nice-lineaged one?)

I'd maybe change that rule to "Gift is only for users who have X amount or fewer nicely lineaged dragons of the breed" because sometimes, if I'm gifting something like an even 3G green Copper, I'd prefer it doesn't go to someone who already has a dozen nicely lineaged green Coppers. A dozen messy/inbred ones or only a few nice ones? Sure.

 

 

 

Black List

People permanently banned from the thread. If they are seen posting in the thread and/or requesting eggs from the thread, you should report them to a DC forum moderator

Small Egg

Reginea9

Porsche

nataliarocks1317

FJEEFOJ

Yunako

 

Temp-Ban

People who have been given a temp-ban. They can not post in the thread or receive eggs via the thread, but may give eggs/hatchlings via the lists during the ban. Please contact a thread Mod if they are seen posting in the thread during their temp-ban.

_Mystique - banned to October 12

Edit: So, to be clear, are we allowed to have something like this? Or is it against forum rules?

Edited October 13, 2014 by F.ury

[olympe]

I'd like to know that, too. Besides, that quote from TJ is from 2010 - just saying.

 

ETA: Yes, it's rather common practice to keep greylists (temp-bans) and blacklists (bans)

 

x X [ Current Greylist ] X x[/b]

 

x X [ Current Blacklist ] X x

FJEEFOJ / ewfweffew

Bans

Everyone gets three chances in the thread, breaking a rule resulting in banning will result in a ban for one, two or three weeks. Any rule-breaking after this will result in Blacklisting. Those banned are recorded for future rule-breaking use. Certain rules being broken can result in an insta-temp ban or an insta-blacklist with no warning.

 

Temp-Bans

These people have broken the rules and have been warned and placed on a 1 - 3 week temp ban. They cannot be added to lists or receive gifts via the thread, but may give to listers. Their end date is posted after their name.

-none-

 

Blacklist

These members have repeatedly broken the rules and may not be seen posting in this thread for any reason. If they are seen here for any reason, you need to PM a DC forum moderator immediately

-none!-

Greylist - Banned for Next Release

None!

 

Greylist - Banned for Current Release

None!

 

Blacklist - Permanently Banned

None!

 

Let's keep it all this way

Uh oh...

The lists. Yes, unfortunately, we must have them.

 

Grey List

If you break a rule, you will be listed here. People who are greylisted will be temp ban from the thread for a week.

 

None - let's keep it this way. ^^

 

Black List

If you repeatedly break thread rules, you will be put here. People who are blacklisted are permanently banned from this thread.

 

None - let's keep it this way. ^^

 

Past Offenders

People who have been greylisted before.

Edited October 13, 2014 by olympe

[Starscream]

2010 does not make it less valid. Unless he has said otherwise, its probably safe to figure, its against the rules. Although you'd really have to talk to mods on that.

Edited October 13, 2014 by Starscream

[olympe]

No, it's age doesn't automatically render it invalid. However, this rule doesn't seem to be in effect anyway. And besides, TJ is known to change his mind on occasion.

[Tawanda001]

Right now I have no place to go to gift eggs that may mean something special to me, eggs that I do not want to see harmed. Honestly if it's an egg I don't care what happens to it I'll just put it on departures or dump to the AP.

As the new thread stands I see absolutely no difference between leaving an egg there and leaving it in the AP, so I'm another who probably won't use it and I probably won't be breeding as much to gift if I have no way to ask people not to bite, kill, etc. I also don't understand the people who think it's ok to those things when asked not to, there is an entire page of abandoned eggs to choose from for that kind of thing. What is the point of doing it, just to prove a point that you can do it?

Edited October 13, 2014 by Tawanda001

[DragonLove234]

Anyone else feel that the new 'TAELAE' doesnt feel right? To me it isnt the same and never will be. The fact that we cannot protect our gifts and absolutely must send them on a one-way, giving the possibility of theft is not right. The 'You cannot dictate what happens' is absolutely NOT true. People usually followed those rules we set and now they just said 'NOPE! Cant have that!' It isnt your dragon anymore, you cant do anything about it, try and the entire thread will be closed!' It... hurt me to see that the thread I loved once was 'returned' in a way that is now barely different than putting them in the AP. My dragons who once bred pretties to gift to the thread wont breed anymore! After the thread closed, I had more and more refusals, rejects and them just not breeding at all. I would rather there not be a TAELAE than the so-called new. Anyone else feel that the new one isnt as happy and, maybe its just my screen but I feel like its literally darker. Sadly I will no longer be gifting in any thread. My gifting thread is gone for good.

 

EDIT- As I have thought more, the new 'TAELAE' is EXACTLY like TJ's creation. Eggs can be stolen, people can leave unwanted things, you MUST use a one-way transfer, its terrible! Why have two? Anyone else think that TAELAE can never truly be made anew? It was unique and special to everyone. Whoever 'restarted' the thread OBVIOUSLY didnt even bother to consider other people's thoughts as thread is just what many people didnt want! People usually asked for two-ways, saying what we want to happen to our gift, a few mods of the thread but NO. The thread is set up on the complete opposite.

Edited October 13, 2014 by DragonLove234

[Hellen]

My honest problem with all the 'Gifting' and so on, and I have to say it, that users STILL try to force (and yes, force) other users to do as they say.

 

If your egg leaves your scroll, it IS not longer yours.

You lost every right to say what happens to it.

You cannot dictate how an user plays their scroll.

You cannot dictate how an user fares with the eggs/hatchlings he's got.

Blacklisting people is just a way of harrassement.

Worse, calling people THIEVES because you LEFT A ONE SIDED TRADE LINK somewhere, that someone picked up, in the mind to keep the egg, because they like it, or think, hey I could use that, or whatever.

A THIEF STEALS from you.

You don't call the person who picks up a ten bucks from the floor that you dropped there for someone to take a thief.

No matter if they spend the money, or drop another ten bucks, too.

It's really unfair, absolutely rude and embarassing if you find your name as "Egg Thief" listed somewhere, while you just took the egg, and, who knows, maybe wanted to leave a gift link after your eggs bred.

I'd totally NOT want to gift on a thread where people called me a thief for not dropping fifty teleport links right before/after taking something else.

As for the rules, I don't see any problems.

Take an egg, leave an egg is on a voluntary basis, the taking as well as the giving, and while giving something in return is STRONGLY encouraged, it has become really annoying to read through posts in the old thread "Want something offered on the 2 way!", just to make sure their eggs land somewhere they want them to be. (which isn't bad per say, just really annoying if you have to literally 'beg' for a gift.)

 

IF you don't want your valuables to be 'stolen', don't leave them off of your scroll. Easy as that. If they stay there, no one can STEAL them.

 

All the gifting threads are just some kind of nicety.

Not "Be eternally grateful, Do whatever I demand of you with that egg, even if it goes against your whole play-style, and don't you ever forget to toss something on here, or you're the bad guy!"

Edited October 13, 2014 by Hellen

[Beldarius]

It's really unfair, absolutely rude and embarassing if you find your name as "Egg Thief" listed somewhere, while you just took the egg, and, who knows, maybe wanted to leave a gift link after your eggs bred.

I'd totally NOT want to gift on a thread where people called me a thief for not dropping fifty teleport links right before/after taking something else.

That was why it was required to post "Taking this" right after taking the egg, it was fine to post "will leave something later once I can breed". People like THAT weren't called thieves - people who NEVER left anything were called that.

 

How hard is it to catch something nice (or even messy) off the AP and then dropping that in the thread?

Edited October 13, 2014 by Beldarius

[Hellen]

That was why it was required to post "Taking this" right after taking the egg, it was fine to post "will leave something later once I can breed". People like THAT weren't called thieves - people who NEVER left anything were called that.

Still doesn't make it right to call someone a thief who did not 'steal' anything.

 

(Btw, some people who are on mobile can not edit a text THAT quickly as the 'THIEVES' messages popped up. Some popped up right after the egg was 'Stolen' from the users who posted the link. If I am on my cellphone, I can take links because my PW is saved on the mobile browser, but editing texts needs minutes)

[Beldarius]

Just because some people did that doesn't mean everybody thinks the same way. I didn't mind what was going to happen to the egg or hatchie I left in the thread (on a two-way) - I just wanted to know where it would go, AND "TAE LAE" wasn't meant to be just another gifting thread - it was meant to be a place where people share. People who simply take don't know the meaning of sharing.

[Tawanda001]

My honest problem with all the 'Gifting' and so on, and I have to say it, that users STILL try to force (and yes, force) other users to do as they say.

 

If your egg leaves your scroll, it IS not longer yours.

You lost every right to say what happens to it.

You cannot dictate how an user plays their scroll.

You cannot dictate how an user fares with the eggs/hatchlings he's got.

Ah, but in real life you don't gift your grandmothers tea set to your third cousin who doesn't care about it and is careless with nice things anyway. You gift it to the cousin who knows what it means to you and promises to take good care of it. Sure, it might still be the victim of an unfortunate accident, but you know it's not going to be carelessly or purposely trashed.

That third cousin, she gets gifted the tea set you picked up at the discount store or at a rummage sale, ya know?

 

If you know someone wants the egg treated a certain way and you don't play that way then just pass on that egg and find another. Honestly I think that purposely harming an egg when someone asks you not too is every bit as bad as viewbombing. It's a nyah, nyah, nyah gesture of disrespect for another player.

Edited October 13, 2014 by Tawanda001

[Oasis]

I really don't see the point of the take-and-leave anymore, with the rule. I won't be using it, most likely, unless I see something I need and I have something I can give (unlikely)

I agree with the no two-ways rule but I think PM-linking should be allowed. it doesn't usually create a big disruption.

 

ANYWAY,

Do we know if Nyastara is ever coming back to fix the image links? I know it seems a little hasty but like, it needs to happen at some point. Again, I don't mean to be rude

Edited October 13, 2014 by Oasis

[diaveborn]

Right now I have no place to go to gift eggs that may mean something special to me, eggs that I do not want to see harmed. Honestly if it's an egg I don't care what happens to it I'll just put it on departures or dump to the AP.

I thought the departures thread let you specify what you did or did not want to happen to your gift.

If you are giving away your eggs, you can set up your own requirements or choose whom to give to.

[olympe]

How can that be? I mean, if it's not your egg any more...

[lollipop00]

I deeply hate the New TAE/LAE eggs are already getting taken by unknown users and are of course not leaving anything, this was why in the old thread I used TWO-WAY teleports so somebody would have to offer a dummy egg and offer something for the thread. If not two-way then PMs would do. I wish guest were not allowed to see gifting threads. I would use one-ways if guest could not see it .-. Totally forgot about the forum users hiding scrolls, thanks for reminding me Olympe

 

Whoever did the rules really should reconsider them.

Edited October 13, 2014 by lollipop00