We want Forum Feedback!

[Fuzzbucket]

I do rather take your point. TJ did ask in the closed thread for actual suggestions, and you've tried.

 

Maybe the only way is to suggest a NEW THREAD in games, and suggest how it should work ? That has to be DIFFERENT, so...

(you'll need to give it a new name, as clearly the TAE LAE name is part of what is seen as an issue. How about "the egg for an egg game" or something innocuously NOT TAE LAE ish ? ?)

[TJ09]

This is not funny any more.

 

In order to avoid further cluttering this Forum Feedback thread, the TAE LAE discussion was moved to its own thread. Which was closed by TJ.

 

So, not specific enough. Riiiight. I started a new thread with a very, very specific suggestion. There's only one change that's really needed, after all. So, "Allow two-way teleports on TAE LAE" was born - and closed rather quickly by _Z_.

Please pm the OP or thread mods if you want to add/change rules of a members topic.

 

Seriously, could you please finally stop to give us the run-around? It's getting old pretty quickly.

 

Besides, the thread mods of TAE LAE are operating the only way they're allowed to at the moment, so this is outside their power anyway. I'm trying to get you mods to rethink your stance, but the only thing you appear to be interested in is to quell discussion ASAP.

 

And, to make things quite clear: I've had had PM exchanges with several mods in the past few days about it - including TJ, rubyshoes and _Z_ - all of them pretty much doing the same thing as the closing threads, telling me to try something else. Just what else will finally get a result (save closed threads and warns)?

 

I'm annoyed. I'm feeling played. I'm frustrated because I'm being given the "idiot tour" where everyone points in a different direction. Could you (mods and TJ) please clean up your act and give one statement that really counts instead of playing me for dumb?

I'd consider the second portion of your "run-around" to be an invalid part of your argument. I asked for concrete suggestions, you didn't post any, and then claim you were being "misled" when Sock closed the thread.

 

As for the third thread, that's something that couldn't have been said in advance without knowing what your proposal was. That's part of why I asked for specifics; without addressing individual approaches, it's hard to make a general statement. I wouldn't say everyone's pointing in different directions, just more and more specific ones as the questions get more and more specific.

 

If you wish to change the rules of the existing TAE thread, then that's one thing, and as _Z_ said, that's outside of the scope of the mods. This is very similar to help/suggestion threads regarding hatcheries being insta-closed.

 

If you wish to change the forum rules in such a way that the old TAE thread would never have been closed, in order to allow things to get closer to how they were, that's a discussion that can be held.

[Fuzzbucket]

How exactly was the old thread against the rules ? Calling out happens in LOADS of threads - and that was the only issue I ever saw.

[Starscream]

Respect Others

It isn't possible to get far in the world if you refuse to respect others. Treat others kindly, don't insult them, and others will do the same in return. If you refuse to treat others well, then you will get not only a warning, but a bad reputation, which opens the door for more negativity.

 

Found here: https://forums.dragcave.net/index.php?showtopic=32652

 

Other threads should not be allowing it anyway.

[olympe]

If you wish to change the rules of the existing TAE thread, then that's one thing, and as _Z_ said, that's outside of the scope of the mods. This is very similar to help/suggestion threads regarding hatcheries being insta-closed.

The problem is that at the time the new TAE LAE opened up until now, this is the mod's stand (paraphrasing freely from a PM exchange with rubyshoes who tells me this is mod consent):

TAE LAE has to be a gifting thread in order to be allowed. Gifting mean that you have to use public one-way teleports, or the thread would turn into a trading thread.

 

TAE LAE may not ever be a trading thread because then, it would be a duplicate. According to "mod consensus", we can already use existing trading threads and ask for "nice things" there.

 

This mod attitude is exactly what I see as the problem. PMing the TAE LAE thread mods about changing the rule will either not accomplish anything or merely get the thread closed as a duplicate. Which is why I suggested openly to allow two-way transfers. Not from the side of the thread mods, who need mod permission for this - which they don't have! I was asking the mods to reconsider.

 

Also, trading threads don't work this way. If you don't believe me, go to a trading thread, post something that's neither a CB metallic nor a shimmer of 4th gen or lower or a tinsel of 3rd gen or lower and aks for "nice things". See what you'll get. And how long it takes. In my experience, you can count yourself lucky if you get any offers at all. You're doubly lucky if said offer meets your expectations. If you look through various active trading threads, you'll find most posts to be about low-gen prizes where people demand a CB gold or even several for their eggs, or where people offer numerous CB golds/silvers for low-gen prizes. Sometimes, you'll find people who point out their signature, which states that they're willing to offer less valuable eggs (5th gen and higher) in exchange for several Halloween hatchling IOUs. It's very, very hard to find anything else, much less something "nice".

 

Now compare this to how TAE LAE used to work. Whenever you went there, you could find many "nice" eggs of varying breeds, lineages and value. If you found something you liked, you were free to take it and leave something for the thread. Or you could leave something now, stalk the thread for a short while and take something later.

 

Now, you can go to TAE LAE and find claimed teleport links that aren't even indicated as claimed. You may leave eggs whenever you want. Or you can use any of the existing trading threads and get... mostly nothing.

Edited October 17, 2014 by olympe

[MedievalMystic]

If you have an issue with a particular moderator, please contact one of the Global Moderators or TJ09 himself via PM. - LadyLyzar Edited October 17, 2014 by LadyLyzar

[Fuzzbucket]

Found here: https://forums.dragcave.net/index.php?showtopic=32652

 

Other threads should not be allowing it anyway.

Well, no, they should not. So why single out the TAE LAE for this ?

[RainDear]

OK, my opinion, just my opinion. I do not presume to speak for anyone else.

 

I seldom post in this vein, but it is really beginning to feel that TAE LAE is the victim of a witchhunt. This seems totally unfair.

 

Every attempt to get what once was, or as close to it as may be allowed is squelched. No comment, no discussion, no attempt to suggest other possibilities, no nothing allowed. This seems totally unfair.

 

It is the only thread in trades whether gifting or otherwise that is not allowed to use pms, or two way trades. It is the only thread I am aware of that we are not allowed to discuss. AT ALL! This seems totally unfair.

 

The original had problems. The people who were attached to the thread are not allowed any leeway or discussion in order to attempt to resolve the problems. The only ones who can change what the new thread is allowed to do are the forum moderators. The thread OP and moderators are only doing what the forum moderators deem acceptable which is much more limiting than any other thread I am aware of has to adhere to. This seem totally unfair.

 

This thread is unimportant to me personally. I only used it a few times, but I don't like what is going on here in this instance at all. At all. At all.

 

Moderators, please rethink your stance on this subject. Please.

[Fuzzbucket]

OK, my opinion, just my opinion. I do not presume to speak for anyone else.

 

I seldom post in this vein, but it is really beginning to feel that TAE LAE is the victim of a witchhunt. This seems totally unfair.

 

Every attempt to get what once was, or as close to it as may be allowed is squelched. No comment, no discussion, no attempt to suggest other possibilities, no nothing allowed. This seems totally unfair.

 

It is the only thread in trades whether gifting or otherwise that is not allowed to use pms, or two way trades. It is the only thread I am aware of that we are not allowed to discuss. AT ALL! This seems totally unfair.

 

The original had problems. The people who were attached to the thread are not allowed any leeway or discussion in order to attempt to resolve the problems. The only ones who can change what the new thread is allowed to do are the forum moderators. The thread OP and moderators are only doing what the forum moderators deem acceptable which is much more limiting than any other thread I am aware of has to adhere to. This seem totally unfair.

 

This thread is unimportant to me personally. I only used it a few times, but I don't like what is going on here in this instance at all. At all. At all.

 

Moderators, please rethink your stance on this subject. Please.

This is how I begin to feel about it. I didn't use it - but I can see how loved it was by those who did - and how it is a shadow of what it was.

[Obscure_Trash]

I know people are frustrated, but you guys aren't really listening to what we've said. We closed the thread for specific reasons. People asked for it back. We allowed another thread with limitations that solved the problems we and other users saw. You guys don't like those rules. Fair enough. But you cannot just suggest implementing the same exact rules that got the thread closed in the first place. You are going to have to compromise a bit if you want the thread open but modified.

 

Some are saying you didn't see the problems. Again, that's because mods acted quickly and often user's deleted their posts if they were edited.

 

We are not targeting TAE. Mods (and users according to reports!) saw issues with TAE. Trading moves very fast and we cannot be on at all times. If you see call outs in other threads, then you need to help us by reporting it. Unfortunately, we are not all-seeing, and we can't address what we miss.

 

On chatter, I wonder if mods and users are on the same page? You are perfectly welcome to post "thanks, this is a beautiful dragon; can't wait to build a mate for it!" and such when you take a dragon. What is not welcome is off-topic stuff that doesn't belong in any trading thread. It took me literally 30 seconds to go from this thread, find the old TAE, and find about a dozen posts that are exactly what we are talking about. People were ranting about the thread, posting long essays on why they were offering two-ways, etc. Then they were inserting a teleport into their post so it "wasn't off-topic". If you check out a thread for the first time and are greeted by a wall of posts all about how ungrateful takers are, are you going to hang around? We do not allow specific call-outs nor do we allow complaints like that in the trade section. It makes an unwelcome environment and it makes it hard to find actual teleports.

 

As you guys have seen, just saying/encouraging people to leave an egg when they take one, it doesn't make everyone do it (and I'm discounting people here who are on post mod or are just taking a while to post). So why would simply saying (for example) "you cannot ask for anything but dummies on two-ways" stop people from posting trades or making demands as to what to offer? Again, if you want these changes to be made, you need to go back to why we closed the thread and figure out how to address our concerns as well as yours. I can try to work with people but since I mostly avoid trade threads and just use the AP for maximum off-my-scroll time, I am having a harder time seeing the issues with TAE and thinking how to help address your concerns.

[RainDear]

I know people are frustrated, but you guys aren't really listening to what we've said. We closed the thread for specific reasons. People asked for it back. We allowed another thread with limitations that solved the problems we and other users saw. You guys don't like those rules. Fair enough. But you cannot just suggest implementing the same exact rules that got the thread closed in the first place. You are going to have to compromise a bit if you want the thread open but modified.

 

Some are saying you didn't see the problems. Again, that's because mods acted quickly and often user's deleted their posts if they were edited.

 

We are not targeting TAE. Mods (and users according to reports!) saw issues with TAE. Trading moves very fast and we cannot be on at all times. If you see call outs in other threads, then you need to help us by reporting it. Unfortunately, we are not all-seeing, and we can't address what we miss.

 

On chatter, I wonder if mods and users are on the same page? You are perfectly welcome to post "thanks, this is a beautiful dragon; can't wait to build a mate for it!" and such when you take a dragon. What is not welcome is off-topic stuff that doesn't belong in any trading thread. It took me literally 30 seconds to go from this thread, find the old TAE, and find about a dozen posts that are exactly what we are talking about. People were ranting about the thread, posting long essays on why they were offering two-ways, etc. Then they were inserting a teleport into their post so it "wasn't off-topic". If you check out a thread for the first time and are greeted by a wall of posts all about how ungrateful takers are, are you going to hang around? We do not allow specific call-outs nor do we allow complaints like that in the trade section. It makes an unwelcome environment and it makes it hard to find actual teleports.

 

As you guys have seen, just saying/encouraging people to leave an egg when they take one, it doesn't make everyone do it (and I'm discounting people here who are on post mod or are just taking a while to post). So why would simply saying (for example) "you cannot ask for anything but dummies on two-ways" stop people from posting trades or making demands as to what to offer? Again, if you want these changes to be made, you need to go back to why we closed the thread and figure out how to address our concerns as well as yours. I can try to work with people but since I mostly avoid trade threads and just use the AP for maximum off-my-scroll time, I am having a harder time seeing the issues with TAE and thinking how to help address your concerns.

My opinion, just my opinion. Not speaking for anyone else. "You" if used is general.

 

Two-ways like you suggest are not allowed at all in the new thread. This is supposed to be according to what mods required for the opening of that thread.

 

Any discussion of how rules could have been changed to make the thread work, whether to put it into games or whatever has been locked. I do understand why the thread was locked and how it was a real problem. What I do not understand is why no discussion to either improve the thread or a way to create one that works better is being allowed.

 

Are there rules that can be set up that will encourage the mods to give it another chance? Can two-ways be used in the manner you suggest? Could it be made a forum game? If a rule were in place that taking without giving just has to be accepted and players have to realize that enforcement is impossible be something that players can live with? If the players come up with rules that the mods would feel comfortable with, would the thread be allowed to reopen on a trial basis? Both sides have to at least discuss these and other questions to see if new rules would even be acceptable to both sides. But when 1 side refuses to discuss, and just uses their power to squelch all discussion, you make everyone unhappy. If in an open discussion it were determined that it is impossible to satisfy both sides even on a trial basis, then we all would have to agree that the thread is impossible, but to just stop all discussion doesn't even give everyone a chance to understand that.

Edited October 18, 2014 by raindear

[beautifuldragon5000]

okay people either provide constructive critiques or stop whining it is what it is, you guys act like the mods are the bad guys I loved the thread but there were several times I told people over PM that maybe the people who can't give back were newbies who most likely didn't feel they had anything nice to give back. I have been playing for 7 years and in that time if it hadn't been for the kind gifters who gave me nice things and even some messy things I wouldn't have my nice scroll I have today. if you don't want to use the thread then don't use it, if you don't like the way its run then provide mods constructive critiques over PM. I don't agree with all this flame up over this thread its ridiculous, like I said it is what it is

[Starscream]

People really would need to contact the current thread operators - if they haven't already to make their concerns be known.

 

But I agree with sock. Much of the old thread's discussion was simply about how low people are and whatnot with, as she said, a link thrown in to keep it "on topic". The user of that post knew they were off topic.

 

And I have seen the mods point out that some users were on post moderation and therefore could not post immediately. This point has been conveniently "ignored" by the current plaintiffs.

Edited October 18, 2014 by Starscream

[edwardelricfreak]

If someone can't post due to post moderation, they need to have some other way of communicating they took the egg OR avoiding situations where they *have* to post.

 

I don't mind that the mods closed the old thread for the problems it had. Really I don't. I, for one, just want more of their involvement in their feedback on suggested rules we come up with. Right now, the thread still has problems, even if it *is* hopefully not breaking rules as much. We're not asking for the *exact same stuff* back that got it closed; we're trying to prove how some things WEREN'T problems and trying to propose other ways of going about the rules but we need the mods to give *some* feedback on if they think, in theory, those rules would work or not.

 

I don't want to see more call-outs, but I also want ways of trying to at least sort of enforce giving back. Because in the context of a thread like that, where users are meant to give an egg(s) when taking others, taking WITHOUT ever leaving one to match (so long as they stay 1:1) is stealing from others who are trying to play fair.

 

Clearly it's no longer okay to call out people (technically it never was...) but you HAVE to understand the reason behind it. The call-outs weren't the source of the problem, they were just the reaction to the problem.

 

All I want to see is something allowing for protection. Users can still post one-ways but at this point I just want to be able to use PMs/two-ways if I feel like I want to protect my egg from someone who will potentially just take without leaving something else for the thread. I might not even use the thread again, even if that's implemented, but I'd like it to be there. :\

[CaesarZeppeli]

okay people either provide constructive critiques or stop whining it is what it is, you guys act like the mods are the bad guys I loved the thread but there were several times I told people over PM that maybe the people who can't give back were newbies who most likely didn't feel they had anything nice to give back. I have been playing for 7 years and in that time if it hadn't been for the kind gifters who gave me nice things and even some messy things I wouldn't have my nice scroll I have today. if you don't want to use the thread then don't use it, if you don't like the way its run then provide mods constructive critiques over PM. I don't agree with all this flame up over this thread its ridiculous, like I said it is what it is

If it is what it is why are you putting your two cents in? I don't see flaming happening here as of yet. What I see here is a discussion, while I also don't like the closing of the old TAE LAE thread, I also don't see the point of belittling people trying to find a solution appropriately. I don't think you really understand, we aren't trying to make the mods the bad people, we are trying to make people understand that rules were infringed upon. This topic is about trying to bring back a beloved thread and, like the mods said, take it to TJ if you don't like what you see here.

 

I personally think we need to have mods of threads who live in different time zones or staggered ones, that way someone can watch the thread more often. Either that, or have active ones that will gently yet sternly remind everyone to keep to the spirirt of the thread's purpose.

[Sany]

I read somewhere about doing a TAE-LAE like thing in the games forum, and I support this. It's clear the mods don't want a two-way trade for a gifting thread, so we can all just forget about that. And a lot of people are uncomfortable about one-way trades in TAE-LAE, for good reason because no one even cares about giving an egg in return.

 

So I'm for making a new thread like the old TAE-LAE in the Games subforum, where you can only use two-way trades so that a new egg will always be left.

And for all I care the current TAE-LAE thread can die because there isn't even a difference between that thread and the departures thread, aside from the departures thread allowing two-ways still, thank god.

[F.ury]

I read somewhere about doing a TAE-LAE like thing in the games forum, and I support this. It's clear the mods don't want a two-way trade for a gifting thread, so we can all just forget about that. And a lot of people are uncomfortable about one-way trades in TAE-LAE, for good reason because no one even cares about giving an egg in return.

 

So I'm for making a new thread like the old TAE-LAE in the Games subforum, where you can only use two-way trades so that a new egg will always be left.

And for all I care the current TAE-LAE thread can die because there isn't even a difference between that thread and the departures thread, aside from the departures thread allowing two-ways still, thank god.

I think TAE LAE in the games forum sounds like a great idea but I doubt that's going to happen. All the other games in the games forum do not involve DC dragons and are things like "How high can you count?", "Yum or Yuck?", "Change a letter" etc.

[Sany]

I think TAE LAE in the games forum sounds like a great idea but I doubt that's going to happen. All the other games in the games forum do not involve DC dragons and are things like "How high can you count?", "Yum or Yuck?", "Change a letter" etc.

There's the Bingo? That involves dragons as well and I think you can win dragons through it as well.

[Fuzzbucket]

If someone can't post due to post moderation, they need to have some other way of communicating they took the egg OR avoiding situations where they *have* to post.

This issue actually needs attention anyway, not just for the TAE situation. It's not long ago that I almost blocked another user here who had not done anything wrong that I had seen, when I bred them an egg - one of those ones that doesn't turn up at once - they had begged for and PMd them to let them know. The egg sat there till it HATCHED, and my PM sat there unread. (They didn't accept emails, but I don't know if those get through when you are on suspension or post moderation or whatever anyway). I was JUST about to block them when they showed up to apologise and explain.

 

We all have no way to know about suspensions and the like - but I wish there were a way for them to make contact so that this kind of thing didn't happen...

Edited October 18, 2014 by fuzzbucket

[Fuzzbucket]

I know people are frustrated, but you guys aren't really listening to what we've said. We closed the thread for specific reasons. People asked for it back. We allowed another thread with limitations that solved the problems we and other users saw. You guys don't like those rules. Fair enough. But you cannot just suggest implementing the same exact rules that got the thread closed in the first place. You are going to have to compromise a bit if you want the thread open but modified.

It wasn't the RULES that got it closed; it was people breaking them.

 

Just saying...

 

Separate post because this is a very separate issue.

[olympe]

I know people are frustrated, but you guys aren't really listening to what we've said. We closed the thread for specific reasons. People asked for it back. We allowed another thread with limitations that solved the problems we and other users saw. You guys don't like those rules. Fair enough. But you cannot just suggest implementing the same exact rules that got the thread closed in the first place. You are going to have to compromise a bit if you want the thread open but modified.

You closed the thread for three (!) reasons. I've tried to address all of them, as far as I can tell.

 

Here's the quote from the closing post:

This topic is closed for continuing to call out members, chat and trading instead of gifting.

First of all, the call-outs. I know they happened, especially on the last page. And, yes, some of it was quite chatty, too.

 

However, it was never (until now) clarified that chat wasn't a simple "thanks, this is a beautiful dragon; can't wait to build a mate for it!" message put into your taking/leaving post, but the things we (mere users) can only see on the last page at the moment. I'm sure there was more, for quite some quotes from that page don't correspond to anything I can see on the few last pages. I guess Sock's worry that we were not on the same page holds true in this case. If these kinds of thank-you messages are allowed, I think I can speak for almost everyone when I say that we can all agree with the existing rules about chat and calling out.

 

What we aren't on the same page about, however, is the purpose of TAE LAE. You seem to think that it is nothing but a departures board with more rules that the gifter has to adhere to (no requests regarding the treatment of your gift, no two-way teleports, no asking the person taking your egg to at least post so you know where it went).

 

What we users saw in TAE LAE was not only a place to gift nice eggs, but also one where we could always find nice eggs. That's exactly what it was intended to be by Quis.

This thread is similar to the wonderful Departures board in that people come here to leave an egg (or hatchling) for someone else to take, but with one big difference: if you take an egg you must also leave one for someone else! That means that there should be one or more eggs here for others to take at all times.

But if you look at things now, TAE LAE is usually devoid of eggs. If you're lucky, you'll find a messy common egg here or there, or even a CB common. Or you may stalk the thread and snatch something as soon as it gets offered in order to get anything at all. That is not the purpose of TAE LAE. It's the purpose of the Departures thread.

 

The current big problem in TAE LAE, as I see it, is the vast amount of users who take things anonymously without giving back. (Or maybe those crossposting their gift, making things look like there are more users who take anonymously.) Of course, we may not call out users who do this for whatever reason they have, this kind of behavior is not acceptable. But, if allowed, we can use two-way teleports or a PM system to make sure that the egg goes to someone who gives back to the thread. Naturally, we shouldn't expect anything but a dummy egg on a two-way teleport, nor should we ask for anything in return if we send out a one-way teleport link via PM. This way, we can make sure the thread is what it is supposed to be.

 

Of course, there are people without forum accounts. By the rules of the thread (eg. give back), they cannot participate. There are also people on post moderation. During the period of post moderation, TAE LAE isn't the thread for them. Unless they can still PM people? In this case, they can PM the gifter explaining things. As an aside: Post moderation is supposed to be a penalty for severe rule breaking. Not a permit to break even more (thread) rules.

 

So why would simply saying (for example) "you cannot ask for anything but dummies on two-ways" stop people from posting trades or making demands as to what to offer?

Why does simply forbidding chat and calling out of other users work? Fact is, it doesn't. However, this kind of rule-breaking gives you a reason to warn users, even put them on moderated posting for repeated offense and do a lot of other things you're able to do.

 

I also daresay that there were fewer people posting "real" trades than there are now stealing from the thread, thereby draining it of life. In essence, you (mods) are imposing rules that serve to punish everyone for the actions of a minority. If you're worried about people posting trades in TAE LAE (with actual demands that go beyond "dummy egg), please allow at least a PM system. Messages like "PM for one-way transfer and leave something nice for the thread" wouldn't clutter the thread and still work to make TAE LAE what it is supposed to be.

 

Maybe this PM system could work? It wouldn't be the same as before, and all other rules are already in place and agreed upon (no calling out, no chatting beyond short gushing about the lineage or saying thank you).

 

People really would need to contact the current thread operators - if they haven't already to make their concerns be known.

If I contacted the thread operators, they'd simply point me back to the mods. Because the thread operators are not the ones in power. They have been given rules to follow by the mods. One of seems to be that only public one-way transfers are permitted in TAE LAE. If the thread operators change this without mod consent, they'll get their thread closed pretty quickly - which is not what anybody here is trying to accomplish.

 

But I agree with sock. Much of the old thread's discussion was simply about how low people are and whatnot with, as she said, a link thrown in to keep it "on topic". The user of that post knew they were off topic.

You make it sound like 90% of the thread was discussion and calling out. If you look through the thread (past the last page), you will see that it is the other way round. Most posts that I can see are mere give/take posts with thank-you notes attached. Not discussion/calling out with a teleport attached.

 

And I have seen the mods point out that some users were on post moderation and therefore could not post immediately. This point has been conveniently "ignored" by the current plaintiffs.

So, a handful of people on post moderation make everything okay? I said it above, and I'm saying it again: If you're on post moderation, you're being punished for severe misbehavior. This punishment includes that fast-moving forum games or things like TAE LAE, which require you to post quickly aren't for you for the time being. Clean up your act, get off post moderation - and welcome back.

[beautifuldragon5000]

I can see this whole TAE issue from both sides when I was a newbie I actually had a lot of issues with being badmouthed for offering something I thought was special on a rare that actually necessarily wasn't to the other people. TJ and the mods want this to be a completely hospitable place for everyone concerned, even though I loved the thread at the end there it came down to the mods and TJ making some tough decisions, mods are not here to be people pleasers and I know they aren't winning any popularity contests with this issue but at the same time how many users are new without that much to offer and I have even had people PM me for feeling bad in the old thread for having nothing to offer on my 4th gen shimmers other shinies and rares and I really made them smile by even giving them things to contribute back to the thread. isn't that the true spirit in which the thread was intended. Shouldn't that be the spirit in which it should continue? well if it can't be continued in that vein then I think the mods were correct in their decision and if you have stipulations on your eggs don't offer them on the thread plain and simple.

[CNR4806]

And I have seen the mods point out that some users were on post moderation and therefore could not post immediately. This point has been conveniently "ignored" by the current plaintiffs.

"Oh no I'm on a post moderation", or "I don't have a forum account" for that matter, does not work as an excuse on threads which require (immediate) replies to participate by design.

 

All the forum game threads will not wait for some mod to wake up and approve a post, the faster RP threads will make progress for miles before a moderated post is approved, and the old TAELAE thread has an explicit 5-hour time limit for posting an egg which also does not wait for post moderation. And if someone is not allowed to make a forum account then too bad, none of these threads are for them at all.

 

On the note of unregistered "users", if accessibility for them is such a large factor to consider, then the whole ton of list-based gifting threads are also problems. Unlike the simplistic Departure-style threads, those make heavy use of either replies or PMs to facilitate signing up, transfers and confirmations. Should they be nuked too? Because they are certainly as unregistered-unfriendly as the old TAELAE.

[olympe]

I have even had people PM me for feeling bad in the old thread for having nothing to offer on my 4th gen shimmers other shinies and rares and I really made them smile by even giving them things to contribute back to the thread. isn't that the true spirit in which the thread was intended. Shouldn't that be the spirit in which it should continue?

Honestly, I'd probably do the same for someone who'd really want to participate - if I knew about the issue. But the way it is now, there's so much anonymous taking in TAE LAE that I doubt it's just poor new players who can't give anything back.

 

Also, when we still had the old thread, "nice" things were clearly meant to be not only rares, but also commons from special lineages. People were encouraged to breed 3rd gen common checkers to gift back in TAE LAE. It takes less than two weeks to achieve that - if you have some commons already.

 

Regarding stipulations - many gifting threads have stipulations on the giftee: Don't kill, don't freeze unless you got permission, don't neglect, don't abandon, don't trade away your gift. If people don't adhere to this code, they will be banned - either temporarily or permanently. It's still common practice.

 

Don't get me wrong, I don't think that putting up half a dozen hoops for the giftee to jump through is the way to go. But asking for no killing/trading away gifts seems pretty reasonable to me. Would you want to gift some special piece of art to someone without asking them to take good care of it? Breeding certain lineages can take months, even years. In some cases, there's additional effort involved, like trading or getting the darn rare CB dragons you need for them. Seeing something that precious be killed by people can physically hurt.

[LibbyLishly]

My opinion, just my opinion. Not speaking for anyone else. "You" if used is general.

 

Two-ways like you suggest are not allowed at all in the new thread. This is supposed to be according to what mods required for the opening of that thread.

 

Any discussion of how rules could have been changed to make the thread work, whether to put it into games or whatever has been locked. I do understand why the thread was locked and how it was a real problem. What I do not understand is why no discussion to either improve the thread or a way to create one that works better is being allowed.

 

Are there rules that can be set up that will encourage the mods to give it another chance? Can two-ways be used in the manner you suggest? Could it be made a forum game? If a rule were in place that taking without giving just has to be accepted and players have to realize that enforcement is impossible be something that players can live with? If the players come up with rules that the mods would feel comfortable with, would the thread be allowed to reopen on a trial basis? Both sides have to at least discuss these and other questions to see if new rules would even be acceptable to both sides. But when 1 side refuses to discuss, and just uses their power to squelch all discussion, you make everyone unhappy. If in an open discussion it were determined that it is impossible to satisfy both sides even on a trial basis, then we all would have to agree that the thread is impossible, but to just stop all discussion doesn't even give everyone a chance to understand that.

Essentially, this.

 

I don't care about TAELAE at all. I've been enjoying using TJ's new Leaveandtake and it makes me happy. TAELAE wasn't a community that I felt like participating in. I did not see what the mods had to deal with and, if one thread is being that much of a nightmare, clearly something needed to chance. A temporary shutdown wasn't too drastic at all, considering what the mods have been saying they'd been dealing with.

 

That said, the runaround that the people who DID love TAELAE have been given in this section of the forum deeply bothers me. I was glad when someone finally opened a new thread to talk about TAELAE specifically, since I was sick of seeing that issue and only that issue for pages in Forum Feedback. But then that one got shut down for being too 'general' - apparently 'general' discussion is only allowed in Forum Feedback? Oooookay. Then the next one got shut down for being 'identical'. Finally, a concrete suggestion was made, and that one got shut down on the basis that 'if you want something to change, contact the thread OP'. Say what?!

 

If the only recourse a player has is to contact the OP of a thread, why was this not stated MUCH sooner? Furthermore, as far as we mere players can tell, that OP is bound by the constraints placed upon them by the mods' rulings that were stated in this thread. If they change it back, it seems most likely that it will get the new thread shut down for being a duplicate of the thread that was originally closed.

 

Instead, mods, why don't YOU tell US? SHOULD the thread be moved to Forum Games, or will it get shut down there? Where can the ideas for restoring a sense of community to TAELAE safely be discussed without fear of automatic shutdown? The rules are not clear and, if they are in fact all stated somewhere, they're certainly not all in one place. This whole mess is causing clear division between the Mods, who clearly have some kind of esoteric knowledge to which the rest of us are not privy, and the players, who are only running into walls of frustration and infighting because no one knows what is 'allowed' anymore.

 

If the entire topic of TAELAE is suddenly censored, fine, so be it. At least players will know where they stand. If not, tell the players where to go to figure this out.