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TJ09

2017-02-14 - Valentine's Day!

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"Once this agreement is in effect, permission to use the art may not be removed by the artist without

the consent of the owner of Dragon Cave. If the art is already in use, it may not be removed until a

suitable replacement has been found or created and is in use. In extreme cases, the owner of Dragon

Cave reserves the right to immediately remove art without the consent of the artist."

So, basically, no. DC did not have permission to use the concept, colors, etc. and make a cheap knockoff without spriter's permission, but did have the permission to remove the art?

 

 

I guess, then, it depends on whether or not you believe a concept belongs to its creator. It's still, in my opinion, a bad situation. sad.gif

 

No offense to DC staff or the spriter, but that's what this sprite was specifically intended to be; a quick, 48-hour perhaps, knockoff. And that's not right without an artist's permission, especially as this says nothing about the concept, the species, etc - only the sprite itself.

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The new spriter doesn't get credit for their sprite, because of the negativity attached to the whole ordeal.

The new spriter(s) explicitly asked for anonymity/to go without credit.

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The new spriter(s) explicitly asked for anonymity/to go without credit.

Exactly my point. They'd get so much drama for it. It's sad their art won't be properly appreciated.

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The event is still going on. You did unfortunately miss the egg drop, but there may be some floating around the AP.

It's not the adventure/event-thing I care about. And even if I saw them in the AP I'd never catch one. I never actually see the new event dragons in the AP. T_T T_T

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It's not the adventure/event-thing I care about. And even if I saw them in the AP I'd never catch one. I never actually see the new event dragons in the AP. T_T T_T

There was a huge wall a few hours ago, for a solid half hour. You only just missed them in the AP.

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Well, since people want to know -

 

~Removed~

 

This is what the original Cermorvous looked like. I don't know why it was changed without EEF's or my consent, but it was. Sorry to everyone.

 

EEF and I were treated rather poorly about this release.

ohh i am so fond of this sprite! i know there's no use dwelling on what might have been, but i'm nevertheless happy and grateful we at least got to see it -- thank you.

Edited by SockPuppet Strangler

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In all honesty, I prefer the old sprites better. They were much more softer and the new stage one hatchies looks too much like Spyro in my opinion, but with a rather fluffy bum than tail.

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Thanks TJ and his staff...

I am late......

 

I was busy with work... no breeding this time... sad.gif

 

Lovely hatchings... My EGGY just hatched... wub.gif

 

I didn't have time for the event...... WELL... next time. biggrin.gif

Thanks for making another wonderful Valentine~~~

 

**CHUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU***

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I'm probably in the minority (because I'm trying to not let the drama cloud my judgment)

 

But I like the (majority) of the new adult sprite better than the old one. I think the antlers on the new one need some definition added to them, but overall I think it's a little more up to speed with the rest of the dragons on the site.

 

The old sprite, while still really good, seems kind of dated I guess? I'm not really feeling the wings.

Just my opinion though, they both look good.

 

I think the new one really should have some tweaks to make it perfect if the new spriter(s) are up to it? Or at least once all this hoopla calms down?

 

 

I did like the old baby sprites though, I kind of agree the new ones seem a little rushed and not well defined. No offense to the spriter(s), but I do think they could use some touching up.

 

 

Regardless of my opinion on the sprite drama, I have to say, thank you for the color combo-breaker. Nice to have a v-day dragon that's not red or pink!

Edited by Lady_Nightfox

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I've seen some drama here, but this takes the cake.

 

Both adults are nice. Yes, I prefer the original in almost every way. But since one side of the story is largely unknown, I'm not gonna take sides.

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"Once this agreement is in effect, permission to use the art may not be removed by the artist without

the consent of the owner of Dragon Cave. If the art is already in use, it may not be removed until a

suitable replacement has been found or created and is in use. In extreme cases, the owner of Dragon

Cave reserves the right to immediately remove art without the consent of the artist."

 

This is straight from the agreement every artist signs prior to release.

So if I'm understanding this correctly...

-If artists want their art removed, TJ needs to agree.

-If it is already in use, a replacement needs to be available to use.

-If absolutely needed, TJ can pull art without the artists agreement.

 

It makes me incredibly concerned about this entire situation, tbh. Obviously we do not have the right to know what happened. If it needs to be kept quiet, it will be kept quiet (though TJ, the acknowledgement of respect to the one who presumably caused the sprites to be pulled, noted and appreciated). Will the community be upset? Definitely. But we do not have the right to demand answers.

Dragon Cave can be considered a business, in a way (even though the only revenue is ads). TJ is CEO. He wouldn't purposely sabotage his users, nor his artists. That'd just be a bad business model to keep.

 

I'm going to trust that this was not taken lightly. After the uproar of Frills, BPs, Dovealove, all that good ol' drama, TJ was well aware of the out cry that would happen. Unless he's severely masochistic, I doubt he'd subject himself to that, nor anyone else to the negative emotions.

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This has to be one of the most intense releases we have had in a while. Kinda feels like watching a ping pong game.

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This has to be one of the most intense releases we have had in a while. Kinda feels like watching a ping pong game.

I can officially say I've been around, and seen some ninja.gif

And I did not see Tazzay's or TJ's comments on the matter coming at all. Makes me wonder what's really going on rolleyes.gif

 

 

 

 

Whoever you are, mysterious spriter, thank you for providing a whole set for us to get in time. You did awesome, and as much as I'd like to personally be able to thank you and praise, I'm glad you're staying anon for all of this drama- at least for now <3

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THE DRAMA!

 

Due to unforeseen circumstances, the released sprites had to be changed. I apologize for any inconvenience that may cause, though thankfully it has no chance to impact lineages, since all dragons are CB and none have bred yet.

{snip}

 

Comparison:

~Removed~ --> user posted image (Provided by Aurigena)

~Removed~ --> user posted image

Even the egg sprite was modified a bit

 

user posted image New Egg Vs. Old Egg user posted image

 

{snip}

 

Well, since people want to know -

 

~Removed~ --> user posted image

(Shokomon: Current Adult Added for Comparison)

 

This is what the original Cermorvous looked like. I don't know why it was changed without EEF's or my consent, but it was. Sorry to everyone.

 

EEF and I were treated rather poorly about this release.

I don't know why it was changed without EEF's or my consent, but it was. Sorry to everyone.

 

EEF and I were treated rather poorly about this release.

If you're going to play the victim, please don't outright lie about it. You were notified via PM last night (in addition to the repeated contact I've had with edwardelricfreak over the past several days, that I know you are aware of because you PMed me about it). You responded to the very PM I sent you about an hour later. To claim that you don't know why the events that have happened transpired as they did is a bit more than disingenuous.

 

My earlier post in this thread was intentionally vague about the swap because I didn't want to draw negative attention to you and edwardelricfreak, but I'm not going to tolerate outright falsehoods.

 

However, since that's not the case... at this point the best way to settle things is probably to give some explanation. D.C. has a reputation for annoying levels of hyper secrecy and while I get that in this case it's actually justified as being sensitive, things are going to explode more without answers, not quiet down.

I am avoiding giving specifics out of respect for the people involved. If they wish to share what happened, they can, and if it turns out they are comfortable doing so, I will gladly share my side of things.

 

The new spriter doesn't get credit for their sprite, because of the negativity attached to the whole ordeal.

The new spriter(s) explicitly asked for anonymity/to go without credit.

 

Form your own opinions, but don't insult the spriters

Edited by SockPuppet Strangler

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On the topic of recreating the concept, once a concept is chosen and released for DC, DC owns that concept.

Should the art for said concept need replacing, the new spriters are well within their rights to just redraw the dragon if they see fit.

Edited by ParticleSoup

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Okay, here's my thoughts after going back and reading what people are saying:

 

We could always make it like the sweetlings. The people who actually prefer the original will always get the original and the people who prefer the new one will always get the new sprite.

 

I know a lot of people are upset about this, and trust me, I am too because when I went to go look at my little Fluffy hatchlings earlier, I'm just like, what's Spyro doing in my scroll? Because to me, they look like Spyro in the S1.

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On the topic of recreating the concept, once a concept is chosen and released for DC, DC owns that concept.

Should the art for said concept need replacing, the new spriters are well within their rights to just redraw the dragon if they see fit.

Thank you for that input Particle. I hadn't considered that fact, and that is a good point. It makes sense.

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Well, since people want to know -

 

~Removed~

 

This is what the original Cermorvous looked like. I don't know why it was changed without EEF's or my consent, but it was. Sorry to everyone.

 

EEF and I were treated rather poorly about this release.

Just love this sprite, and the hatchlings as well.

I noticed the change after looking at the hatchlings in my scroll.

They were beautiful and cute. Status of my DC Valentine's day: ruined sad.gif

Edited by SockPuppet Strangler

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Honestly, at this point, it seems like the best option might be to just replace it with a completely different Valentines dragon. It doesn't seem like there's really any good resolution at this point (assuming that the sprite was changed for a very good reason), and at least with a new dragon it would kind of feel like a fresh start, but I of course don't know what goes into running dragon cave. Granted, there's already the replacement sprites, and it's just a sticky situation no matter how you look at it.

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On the topic of recreating the concept, once a concept is chosen and released for DC, DC owns that concept.

Should the art for said concept need replacing, the new spriters are well within their rights to just redraw the dragon if they see fit.

But where is permission for using the /species/ given in the contract artists sign?

 

If they're signing over their sprites that does *not* mean they have permission to use a species in its entirety. That's the whole concept behind closed species.

 

Unless it is specifically stated and an artist signs over their rights to DC for use of the concept as a whole and not just the art, I truly believe DC does not have the right to do something like this. Legally, stuff like that has to be written out word for word. :/

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