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TJ09

2017-02-14 - Valentine's Day!

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I actually prefer the new dragon, I love the style, the jaggedness looks amazing in my opinion. ninja.gif

Same tho

 

I didn't touch it or have anything to do with its creation but I really love it and I am not a fan of purple. I love its wing membrane shading and color ramp. Whoever made it knows their color theory. Jees bees.

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and now for something completely different:

 

can anyone confirm that there is still no change to the event badge no matter how many times you play through or how many different endings you get? i am post surgery (elbow), and typing/clicking/scrolling takes a lot out of me... i will do my best if the badge changes/fills up more though.

 

thank you!

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I still think a thread should be opened and people encouraged to create their own sprites/new species* to compete for this Valentines event dragon release. tongue.gif Then let people vote on the result. The current dragons can be included, updated or otherwise.

 

1) The current spriter may not be comfortable with their sprites being permanent anyway, do to the controversy and drama, but that's just speculation, since we can't ask them personally. We do know that they are currently uncomfortable with taking credit. This would either make them feel official and accepted if their sprite was voted in, or it would remove the stress of having a "rushed" sprite with controversy surrounding it on site.

 

2) The old spriter(s?) do not like their concept staying when their art was denied. New "species" with similar color schemes or poses can be introduced instead. The Cermorvus dragon doesn't have to be the only purple and gold dragon out there, or the only dragon with pearls or antlers out there. It would be a kind gesture towards them to not have their "Cermorvus" concept taken and used without their credit.

 

3) It would be a great nod to the userbase to allow them control and be able to, for example, vote it a softer, fluffier, lighter Valentine dragon if they so preferred. More people would be satisfied with the end result than are now currently. It would feel less like a "cheat" (even though it wasn't one in the first place) since you're placing power in the hands of the people instead of taking something away and leaving them confused.

 

4) It would be fun and a more diplomatic ending imo to an event, which is a lot better than just ending it with a knock-off Cermorvus that a lot of people, rightly or wrongly, feel disappointed with. I am not commenting on the sprites -- what I mean, it's by definition knock-off, since it's just a copy of the original. Not that they are bad (I quite like them).

 

* So long as we keep the color scheme here, lol.

 

This probably won't happen, but hey, let me dream.

1) I don't have anything to add besides further speculation, but I would assume the artists are perfectly comfortable with their art being used, since it is on-site, but that they simply didn't want to be personally targeted by the ensuing drama.

 

2) It is not Dragon Cave's responsibility to make accommodations for people who violate a contract, which I assume is what happened based on TJ's actions. DC is acting within its contractual rights to keep the concept that was submitted to the site for use. If TJ wants to change the description to alleviate their grievances, I'm sure he will, but he has no obligation to.

 

3) If someone wants to make a "softer, fluffier, lighter Valentine dragon," they can submit one next year. Also, the new sprite seems fluffier than the original to me? The original just had the fluffy tail, but this one added a mane. It also seems to be about the same level of brightness.

 

4) What about the large amount of people who like the sprite? I've seen several posts about how the new sprite is in someone's top few favorite breeds. Would it really be fair to take that away from them, after it already grew up on-site? Also, it's not a knock-off--it's a suitable replacement for unusable art that was unfortunately chosen for release before realizing that it couldn't be used. We may not know the exact reasons, but the replacements were produced in accordance to the contract that both Tazzay and EEF signed prior to release, and calling them "knock-offs" is disrespectful to the people who were only trying to minimize the impact of removing the aforementioned unusable art.

Edited by PieMaster

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Personally I prefer the new adult, but I prefer the old hatchlings.

 

Honestly I have mixed feelings on the whole thing. I think I am just disappointed that it happened at all, that this should have been necessary. I think TJ has done the best he could with the very limited options he had.

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Greatly appreciating the extended release these holidays have now, i completely forgot about it on the actual day (and since we were on a week long vacation elsewhere, i didnt have a means to catch any that day regardless).

 

Also, seeing the original adult just makes me love the new one more. It's far better in nearly every sense, imo. And a bonus, they're purple. Finally a v-day dragon that isnt some shade of pink !

 

I would like to know just what exactly went down, but as how things usually go down here that probably won't happen. Gotta keep up the drama, right?*

 

Along those lines, why are the original hatchlings and eggs hidden now? Their images in Shokomon's posts are broken.

 

 

*TJ even said he's willing to share his side, it's just up to the artists. Yeah, lesse' what they decide to do.

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The adults look pretty nice! smile.gif The new S2 hatchling had an awesome pose, and the new S1 hatchling looked like a Valentine's ghost. tongue.gif I'm still kind of curious over how the old adult sprite would look like...

 

EDIT - Realized I didn't spot the old adult sprite. To be honest, I can't decide between them - the old ones look awesome and has beautiful shading, but the new ones have fancier looks.

Edited by Skilla

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and now for something completely different:

 

can anyone confirm that there is still no change to the event badge no matter how many times you play through or how many different endings you get? i am post surgery (elbow), and typing/clicking/scrolling takes a lot out of me... i will do my best if the badge changes/fills up more though.

 

thank you!

I haven't thoroughly explored the game myself (it's a little cumbersome on mobile) but I haven't seen anything said here to suggest the badge can change, and I imagine it would be on this thread asap if someone found it out, so I would think you're safe ^.^

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I won't mind keeping these adults and hatclings, the only issue I see is that they look a bit blurry to me. They have more details, but their edges are not refined and detailed, I know I have bad eyesight, but I think this is the thing that keeps making people say they don't fit with the other in cave dragons.

 

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Am I the only one who loves the new s1? It does have a bit of a Halloween vibe to it but I suppose that's what makes it appealing to me. It's also adorable.

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I missed all the dragon drama but I personally LOVE the Val'17's.The slightly inwardly tilted foreleg of the hatchie I think makes it look extremely adorable with an air of "Now....how do these things work again?" that baby critters just learning to walk have about them.Had my hair the same shade of purple for awhile.

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Wow. Had no idea this drama went down. I honestly like the new dragons and their jaggedness.

 

Still need to do the event, it's kinda hard when on mobile.

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I don't think I'm alone in that, while these new hatchies are nice - I would've loved them if they were the original release - I was planning to grab myself an army of freezies next year. I LOVED that little skipping-deer pose, and the bunny tail!

 

But now it's been replaced, and I'm not sure how to feel. The new sprites are more dragonish and less deer-like, which is nice in a way, but I was really looking forward to seeing something deer-like. The original adult is beautiful.

 

I think I'm just going to echo most of the thread by saying that we all want some answers as to what's going on. Even a conclusive 'we don't want to talk about it' would be better than this open argument that seems to be going on, with two different stories from TJ and the spriters. I'm personally inclined to believe the spriters' word over TJ's, but it would help if the second original spriter was to weigh in...

All of this uncertainty creates more drama, not less.

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Am I the only one who loves the new s1? It does have a bit of a Halloween vibe to it but I suppose that's what makes it appealing to me. It's also adorable.

Nope! I think it's cute as well, although I think for me. it has more appeal because it's has a more darker purple color scheme to it.

 

Edit: ...but now I wanna breed mine with the Witchlights, they could look good together.

Edited by Lady Dragoon

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How do you leave the forest?

Not sure exactly what point you are at, but there's a thread in Help that can help you get through it. Thread title - Help with valentines event!

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and now for something completely different:

 

can anyone confirm that there is still no change to the event badge no matter how many times you play through or how many different endings you get? i am post surgery (elbow), and typing/clicking/scrolling takes a lot out of me... i will do my best if the badge changes/fills up more though.

 

thank you!

I have played just about every option and finished 4+ times, it doesn't change. smile.gif

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Strange that the new dragon's description says it carries a pearl in it's antlers, when the pearl is clearly visible in the right claw.

This may have been an oversight when they were transitioning descriptions and sprites (as even the art that Tazzay posted showed the pearl in its claw).

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I have played just about every option and finished 4+ times, it doesn't change. smile.gif

And is there anything new to discover (like how to catch up with that horse smile.gif )?

I must admit that I haven't found any new options or even new easter eggs.

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This may have been an oversight when they were transitioning descriptions and sprites (as even the art that Tazzay posted showed the pearl in its claw).

Nah, don't think so, since the original sprite was also holding the pearl in its paw. I suppose it's meant to be just done with reading someone's future?

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Has anyone noticed anything new, since yesterday, with the Valentine Event such as new commands that work or new detours?

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Nah, don't think so, since the original sprite was also holding the pearl in its paw. I suppose it's meant to be just done with reading someone's future?

Yeah. I meant that it was an oversight when the description was written the first time around and it was still missed when sprites got changed...'Til now...As mentioned in the other post about the change.

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Yeah. I meant that it was an oversight when the description was written the first time around and it was still missed when sprites got changed...'Til now...As mentioned in the other post about the change.

Oh, I see. Yes, could be. smile.gif

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Along those lines, why are the original hatchlings and eggs hidden now? Their images in Shokomon's posts are broken.

Possibly Shokomon linked them from the Wiki? I don't see them on the Wiki now.

 

I saved them yesterday, and just uploaded them to imgur, if you want to see them again. Hopefully this works.

 

 

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*snip*

 

Like everyone else, I can only speculate about the cause of the change. The original artists seem to have been blindsided by it, so they obviously didn't request it. After reading through the last few pages of the post, I dismissed a lot of other possibilities, and there aren't many options left that make sense. My only guess for what could have caused the original sprites to be removed without the artists' input/knowledge is a case of plagiarism, but that doesn't really seem to add up in this case either. I would be surprised if similarities with a released DC design were the cause of the change (considering that the pose/style was pretty unusual for DC). On the other hand, I would also be surprised if the problem was with something external, because the pose is extremely common for anything remotely related to the Cervidae/Equidae families... No way do I believe that the dragon as a whole was straight up ripped off from somewhere else; that's just asking for trouble. It surely would have been caught well before the sprites were used for the holiday event.

 

Unfortunately, that leaves no options at all. I'm left in the dark like everyone else unless someone decides to come forward and enlighten us. sad.gif

"Plagiarism" is a tricky beast to deal with. Sometimes its hard to prove, others its easy. Often times, its not discovered right away.

 

While I am no artist, I have watched several sets of artists at work and have taken concepts from a blank board to finished sprites (with the artists doing all the artwork, I'm limited to stick figures myself). From that experience, I'd say places where problems can crop up are:

 

- With the concept itself

While DragonCave is unusual, its not the only dragon site out there. And on another site, I know they had to drastically over-haul the lore of one of their breeds when it came out too close to one on another site. None of the words were verbatim or anything, but the similarities were eerie. The dragons themselves, as originally presented, were nearly identical in personality / habits. The artwork wasn't changed, but the breed's whole personality was drastically changed.

 

- With the writing

This is what most people think of when they think of "plagiarism", copying verbatim what another has written. I've seen major blow ups in Academia over this, and I know there have been special sites create just so people can try to find plagiarism.

 

- With the sketch

Sometimes, there is a pose reference. Anatomy is quite hard, and from what I've seen many artists like to see how things are put together in the real world. Also for the non-artists among us, having a reference to say "something like that!" is very helpful. However, on another site with a huge art community, I've seen cases of tracing, where the reference picture was traced in part or in its entirety. This makes the outline of the new piece identical to the reference. That is a big league copy-write infringement,and is usually pretty easy to spot by overlaying the two. Even having a sketch too close to a reference can be a major problem.

 

- With the color scheme / markings

I've seen this one in Dragon Requests a time or two, where a reference piece or creature was copied too closely, and the end result looks just like the original.... even though all the artwork is completely new. This can also get into copy-write infringement territory, which can cause major issues. Especially if the concept is similar to the original work.

 

 

All of these are crash and burn issues, and would render a sprite / concept unusable. All of them can happen by intent, but only the first and 4th can happen (rarely) unintentionally, due to subconscious influences. The middle two require intent, or at least a negligent lack of caution and respect for another's work.

 

Whatever the cause, there was no good solution to this problem. Dragon Cave, as ANY other small site that uses art in any form, must be ever vigilant against copy-write infringement. A case that is brought and NOT dropped could have extreme consequences for TJ and the site. And some of the entities out there (*cough* Disney *cough* mean very mean *cough*) get really vicious when their "intellectual property" is infringed upon... intentionally or not. If one of those goes after TJ.... TJ looses. At best, he pulls the sprite. At worst....

 

Its not a cheery thought, not at all. So as unhappy as a lot of people are, you need to think about the consequences to others (like TJ, who after all owns the site) before getting angry over it and demanding the original.... or blaming TJ. When its your neck on the line, you can do as you will. But its not: its TJ's, and I respect his decision to choose his own fate.

 

Cheers!

C4.

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