More retired/limited breeds

[Nerei]

I think this is a bad idea. It is very unfair to newer players, and to people who really like the breeds that are being retired.

 

Also, unless you're talking about trees, "poplar" is actually spelled "popular."

[Fuzzbucket]

I think this is a bad idea. It is very unfair to newer players, and to people who really like the breeds that are being retired.

 

Also, unless you're talking about trees, "poplar" is actually spelled "popular."

This is an international forum and many - including Mondat, I think - are not posting in their own language.

 

I am generally amazed at the level of English posted here. I know I couldn't do it in most languages. What Mondat meant was perfectly clear. I happen to disagree very much indeed, but it was clearly stated.

[olympe]

*snip*

In both cases, the dragons on scrolls should continue to produce true offspring all year round...I think?

That would make it bearable. However, it would still seem unfair towards newer players to miss out on several CB commons.

 

Pros

[+] Less dragons in the cave, less misclicks, less egg descriptions to remember

      ==> Alternatives to prevent crowding in the cave could be: adding new biomes, migration, more breed-only breeds.

[+] The demand for previously "unpoplar" but then retired dragon breeds might increase => more variety on the trading market

[+] Limited dragon breeds might make players feel more obliged to keep playing so they do not miss the caveborns

[+] Players might get some more "trophies in dragon sprite form" because they think "when these were released, I was there"

[-] Even with fewer dragon breeds in the cave, we'll have just as many misclicks - especially when there's a new release and we're clicking faster than we can read.

[-] The demand for previous blockers will undoubtedly increase, no kidding. And it might change the dynamics of the trading market, at least for a short while, mostly between the posting of the "prior notice" before the dragons vanish from the cave until up to 2 weeks after they actually poof. However, I don't think that a couple of weeks of excitement are worth taking away someone's favorite common breed, destroy plans for breeding projects or hoarding goals.

[-] Retiring breeds might keep us hooked, but it's more likely that people here will sharpen their pitchforks or leave in droves.

[-] Personally, I think we already get enough trophies in dragon sprite form. After all, it's three every year. Plus the icons on the top of our respective scrolls.

 

Cons

[-] Players might "lose" one of their favorite dragon breeds if they get discontinued, as they won't be able to collect them in the cave anymore

[-] New players will not be able to get these breeds as caveborns

[-] As DC didn't have a habit of discontinuing dragons there's the risk of an angry mob of players with torches and pitchforks

[-] RP reason: "if the dragons were real, it is rather unlikely that a species would disappear"

[-] Totally agree that people not only might, but undoubtedly will lose their favorite dragons. And what about people who join later?

[-] While caveborns might be overrated and we already don't get caveborns of previous holiday dragons (unless the unlikely happens and we win a raffle), I think these dragons don't need company of other breeds that were never intended to be limited in the first place.

[-] Pitchforks, torches or even chainsaws. Should TJ actually go through with this suggestion, I seriously hope nobody knows where to find him.

[+] Actually, species disappear all the time. One of the last really big reptiles to disappear was the Pinta Island tortoise. Other, less notorious animals go extinct all the time, many of them before they were even "discovered" by us humans. However, there are breeding programs for numerous endangered species, and considering the amount of dragons on people's scrolls, I think we have a very good base for such a "save our [insert breed here] dragons".

 

Maybe a feature where such an "extinct in the wild" breed gets re-introduced into the cave through releasing adults into the wild or through abandoning hatchlings might be interesting. However, this would be very much contrary to what DC is about: It's about "stealing", breeding and raising dragons. Not about sending them into the wild.

 

Overall, I'm still very much against this.

[Torkie10]

I don't really like the idea about retiring/limiting more breeds. I know that for me personally, there is a lot of pressure associated with every new release. I always feel an imposed "need" to get at least a pair of Caveborns—if not two pairs—for breeding purposes, just in case it's ever retired at some point while I'm in the middle of other projects. That happened to me with both Frills and Old Pink, and it was quite distressing.

[KageSora]

I hate the idea of dragons being "extinct in the wild" just as much as "totally unavailable".

 

If you do that, then it sends the message that CB's are more valuable--and the game should not be doing that, the game should not be treading lineage and CB as different. But since CB's will be the limited ones, then that would automatically mean they are a more valuable dragon--why else would they be limited, retired after a while, why the others are available forever?

[topaz08]

No, no no. Why mess with a good thing? Why retire dragons because they aren't 'popular' right at the moment? No, sorry, just creating a reason for more drama. DC is supposed to be fun.

[irercha]

No, no no. Why mess with a good thing? Why retire dragons because they aren't 'popular' right at the moment? No, sorry, just creating a reason for more drama. DC is supposed to be fun.

This.

So definitely no.

[Banyanpan]

I don't support this. I'd rather there just be no new releases if the cave gets too crowded (not that I want that to happen). It's not fair to new users or collectors, and it would make the game less fun.

[Mondat]

This is an international forum and many - including Mondat, I think - are not posting in their own language.

 

I am generally amazed at the level of English posted here. I know I couldn't do it in most languages. What Mondat meant was perfectly clear. I happen to disagree very much indeed, but it was clearly stated.

Heh, I'm amused that a small typo which I failed to see & correct is worth being mentioned in a post. I've never done that when posting in "Suggestions/Requests" and I've seen lots of typos by other people. I'd rather have people point out the grammar mistakes I make (still have problems with tenses), so feel free to do so.

 

[And the elder lady - fuzzbucket - is right, my first language is German. My second language should be Polish but since my parents weren't that great in German in their opinion when they came to Germany they wanted me to study correct German - but I do understand some Polish.

Then I started to study English in school. I also had French for 4 years. In 2007 I moved to Japan and have been staying here since then (as a permanent resident), so let's not forget to add Japanese. Due to studying Japanese I became interested in studying Chinese as well, my Chinese pronunciation is...infamous (;

Ek kan ook 'n bietjie Afrikaans praat! <3]

 

Back to topic...

topaz08:

Why retire dragons because they aren't 'popular' right at the moment? No, sorry, just creating a reason for more drama. DC is supposed to be fun.

As with all 'drama', I could imagine that people might be shocked and angry first but after a while they would get over it (see prizes, see summoning GoN, see the return to non-scheduled releases, see many more occasions). Considering that there are always going to be new dragons unless there's a change.

Personally speaking - and I really only speak for myself when I say this - I probably wouldn't bother to get angry as they're just pixels anyway. There are lots of other dragons I can grab and given that there will be time to grab the eggs before they get discontinued and that they would be breedable after leaving the cave - which was written in the first post from the beginning, just saying -, I see no problems for my game-play.

 

Olympe:

Pitchforks, torches or even chainsaws. Should TJ actually go through with this suggestion, I seriously hope nobody knows where to find him.

How could I forget to add the chainsaws in my update? Does anyone own a tank, just in case?

TJ can stay at my place. He can share the 2nd floor in our house with my two cats, I hope he is not allergic to felines.

 

 

Anyway, it is pretty clear that most people posting here are strongly against discontinuing dragons. However, regarding over-population in the cave - be it now or anytime in the future - it's something which should or could be considered in my opinion.

[Fiona]

No tanks, but I might be able to line up an F/A-18F Superhornet. Would that do? I don't own it of course, but I've got an "in" with the Wiz-O.

[olympe]

Of course, overpopulation is going to be a problem sooner or later, no kidding. That's why there are some other suggestions out there on how to deal with that. Like Migration (not my favorite, but still better than retiring breeds) or adding new biomes. I feel like we should pursue these two options first before we even consider to ask to have breeds retired.

 

And even though you might be able to get "enough" eggs before they get retired, there are still lots of people who won't be able to do so. Be it because their scroll goals will change over time or because once people know something is going to be retired they'll rush to grab as many as they can. (That's what happened with frills. One day, they were blockers of both AP and cave - and suddenly they were gone in less than an eyeblink.) Which means that not everyone will be able to prepare. And the trading market might be dominated by different breeds - but by the same people who always catch the "good" stuff.

Edited September 13, 2014 by olympe

[JavaTigress]

Of course, overpopulation is going to be a problem sooner or later, no kidding. That's why there are some other suggestions out there on how to deal with that. Like Migration (not my favorite, but still better than retiring breeds) or adding new biomes. I feel like we should pursue these two options first before we even consider to ask to have breeds retired.

 

And even though you might be able to get "enough" eggs before they get retired, there are still lots of people who won't be able to do so. Be it because their scroll goals will change over time or because once people know something is going to be retired they'll rush to grab as many as they can. (That's what happened with frills. One day, they were blockers of both AP and cave - and suddenly they were gone in less than an eyeblink.) Which means that not everyone will be able to prepare. And the trading market might be dominated by different breeds - but by the same people who always catch the "good" stuff.

One other issue I have with it, aside from the fact that I just plain do NOT approve of retiring breeds.

 

IF this were done, how would it be decided which breeds were to go? The oldest ones? The least popular?

 

IF this were done it'd be a thing that would need to be decided, IMO.

Bearing in mind that even the least popular breeds have their fans and hoarders.

 

Still don't like the idea, and my preference would still be for some OTHER option to deal with overpopulation of breeds, but one thought I had that I don't THINK has been addressed.

 

Edited September 13, 2014 by Silverswift

[KageSora]

As with all 'drama', I could imagine that people might be shocked and angry first but after a while they would get over it (see prizes, see summoning GoN, see the return to non-scheduled releases, see many more occasions).

If you think people are "over" it, then you're quite wrong. I'm still pissed about the random releases. Clearly people are still upset with the GoN thing or we wouldn't have the "Guarantee Summon" thread. Don't mistake getting tired of feeling like you're talking to a wall for being "over" it, and expect the hard feelings to come back when certain changes are officially put in place or the next time a thread related to whatever it is gets made.

 

Considering that there are always going to be new dragons unless there's a change.

Yes, but they won't be the ones I'm trying to collect. They won't be the ones I still want to have a ton of CBs of. They won't be the ones I liked before and that I now will not be able to freely obtain.

 

However, regarding over-population in the cave - be it now or anytime in the future - it's something which should or could be considered in my opinion.

 

Why should we consider taking away things people like to make room for things they may not like when we have plenty of other suggestions that don't remove the ability to get them CB completely from the game? Things like breeding seasons/migration that dictate how easy/hard to find they are (or like seasonals where you can only get them during a certain time period), or things like adding more biomes and stuff.

 

Also, who gets to decide when the cave is overpopulated? There are doubtless people who feel it already is, and those of us who don't feel that it is. Who gets to decide at what point there are too many breeds to wade through to find the ones you want?

Edited September 14, 2014 by KageSora

[edwardelricfreak]

As with all 'drama', I could imagine that people might be shocked and angry first but after a while they would get over it (see prizes, see summoning GoN, see the return to non-scheduled releases, see many more occasions). Considering that there are always going to be new dragons unless there's a change.

Personally speaking - and I really only speak for myself when I say this - I probably wouldn't bother to get angry as they're just pixels anyway. There are lots of other dragons I can grab and given that there will be time to grab the eggs before they get discontinued and that they would be breedable after leaving the cave - which was written in the first post from the beginning, just saying -, I see no problems for my game-play.

 

----

 

Anyway, it is pretty clear that most people posting here are strongly against discontinuing dragons. However, regarding over-population in the cave - be it now or anytime in the future - it's something which should or could be considered in my opinion.

uh no just because people might fall silent doesn't mean they aren't "over it".

 

That's also just you (I realize you said personally speaking, but still). Some others might agree with you, but I certainly don't. Yes, they're pixels, but they're pixels I LIKE and spend *my time*, which I could use for probably several other (more productive) things, on. I would only want to waste my time on something if I felt it fine to waste time on. More retired things would make me NOT want to spend much time here, if any at all. As for limited breeds, I don't really care so long as it's not that many and they're limited for a reason, like holidays and the raffle. Limited "just because" is okay for some things, but just like retiring things, DC doesn't make a habit of doing that and I'd rather not see it start.

 

-----

 

Yep, that's why I still support the other ideas to this one. I wouldn't even mind if some dragons are completely unavailable (other than maybe by breeding) during certain times of the year. But please no discontinuing. :c And if you start discontinuing, it needs to be fair for ALL dragons; INCLUDING rares imo. Rares shouldn't get the special treatment just because they're rare. You can't pick and choose with commons. I mean, I really don't like Water Walkers or Waterhorses but some users out there love them to death. It wouldn't be fair to them to take away those just because I didn't like them, and I would sure as hell be PO'd if the Seragammas were discontinued. :\

 

And if you discontinue by age? Silvers and Golds will be among the first to go, along with Whites, Greys, etc.

[Jazeki]

 

Also, who gets to decide when the cave is overpopulated? There are doubtless people who feel it already is, and those of us who don't feel that it is. Who gets to decide at what point there are too many breeds to wade through to find the ones you want?

Pretty much this. There are people clamoring for more releases/larger releases/ ratio adjustments as time goes on, but then we have people stating that the cave is overpopulated. What exactly constitutes "overpopulation"?

 

If I recall correctly, TJ tries to distribute breeds evenly across biomes and the eggs spawn in the cave according to the amount of users picking them up/breeding them. Even the breeding results are tied to the population of each breed. So I'm not sure where the idea of "overpopulation" is even coming from.

 

Again, if we retire breeds, it just leads to others filling in that "overpopulated" spot.

[RainDear]

As with all 'drama', I could imagine that people might be shocked and angry first but after a while they would get over it (see prizes, see summoning GoN, see the return to non-scheduled releases, see many more occasions). Considering that there are always going to be new dragons unless there's a change.

Personally speaking - and I really only speak for myself when I say this - I probably wouldn't bother to get angry as they're just pixels anyway. There are lots of other dragons I can grab and given that there will be time to grab the eggs before they get discontinued and that they would be breedable after leaving the cave - which was written in the first post from the beginning, just saying -, I see no problems for my game-play.

 

Anyway, it is pretty clear that most people posting here are strongly against discontinuing dragons. However, regarding over-population in the cave - be it now or anytime in the future - it's something which should or could be considered in my opinion.

I am still upset that Pinks and Frills were discontinued. I still join every possible bandwagon to campaign for their return. They were each individual cases and not standard operating procedure, and I have not gotten over it. If it had been standard operating procedure, my upset would have escalated into me leaving the game.

 

Perhaps there is an issue in population that needs to be addressed, but I pray that other methods will be considered. Discontinuing breeds is not acceptable to me.

[Dragon_Arbock]

I don't think I'd ever be on-board for a retiring system. Maybe a season cycling system, where certain breeds are more or less common at different times of the year, but I never want to see a breed disappear for good. This site is about hoarding as many dragons as you want, whenever you want, of whatever kind you want. Retiring would destroy it.

[Mondat]

Why should we consider taking away things people like to make room for things they may not like when we have plenty of other suggestions that don't remove the ability to get them CB completely from the game?

Because, as with situations in real life, one should consider all options.

Only because people got very very very comfortable with the "so many breeds are available in the cave" situation doesn't mean it will or has to stay that way forever.

There are other suggestions yes - I linked to one myself. This doesn't mean that this suggestion is invalid. If you would like to show your massive support for alternatives you're free to post in their respective threads or create one yourself.

 

Also, who gets to decide when the cave is overpopulated?  There are doubtless people who feel it already is, and those of us who don't feel that it is.  Who gets to decide at what point there are too many breeds to wade through to find the ones you want?

As with all DC-related matters, it is up to TJ and his staff to decide in the end.

All others and I can do is to express our opinions regarding any suggestion - even if there are hundreds of other people who do not like it, I'll continue to do so.

 

 

@Eef:

And if you start discontinuing, it needs to be fair for ALL dragons; INCLUDING rares imo. Rares shouldn't get the special treatment just because they're rare. You can't pick and choose with commons. I mean, I really don't like Water Walkers or Waterhorses but some users out there love them to death. It wouldn't be fair to them to take away those just because I didn't like them, and I would sure as hell be PO'd if the Seragammas were discontinued. :\

Of course there should not be any special treatment (with the exception of BSA dragons for their abilities). No one gets discriminated, all players get the chance to lose their favorite dragon.

[olympe]

I'd rather have the chance to keep collecting my favorite dragons, thank you very much. Besides, if everyone gets to collect their favorites, this is still fair.

[Fuzzbucket]

I'd rather have the chance to keep collecting my favorite dragons, thank you very much. Besides, if everyone gets to collect their favorites, this is still fair.

This. IF there is a problem - and I don't think there is, myself - retiring breeds is NOT the solution.

[Rosedamai]

Because, as with situations in real life, one should consider all options.

I think we don't usually consider options that receive massive amounts of negative opinion or opposition, and to be honest I have so far seen no argument for this that a). still preserve DC's uniqueness, which is a big factor when people pick games, mind you . do not jeopardize certain users' play styles.

Edited September 14, 2014 by ylangylang

[Mondat]

I think we don't usually consider options that receive massive amounts of negative opinion or opposition

So you're saying you do not consider all options in real life? Or are you saying that you don't consider options when you see other people being against them - as in, you form your opinion based on other people's opinions?

 

Then, I would like you to tell me more about DC's uniqueness.

[Fuzzbucket]

If I get some painful and easily cured illness, one of the options for getting rid of the pain would be to kill myself, or to cut off the bit that hurts. I don't see that I need to consider that option. If my car needs repairs to the brakes one of the options is to do nothing and risk running over a kid. Likewise.

 

It is NOT necessary to consider every option for every issue that comes up. And I cannot see what the issue is supposed to BE, in this instance. If you think there are too many breeds - don't collect some of them. I think MOST players would disagree wit the thought, though. I know I do - and that will be the same if the number of breeds doubles. BRING IT ON !

[Mondat]

If I get some painful and easily cured illness, one of the options for getting rid of the pain would be to kill myself, or to cut off the bit that hurts. I don't see that I need to consider that option. If my car needs repairs to the brakes one of the options is to do nothing and risk running over a kid. Likewise.

You're exaggerating. I think we both know that I didn't mean it that way.

[Fuzzbucket]

You're exaggerating. I think we both know that I didn't mean it that way.

Then exactly what way DID you mean it ?

 

You said:

So you're saying you do not consider all options in real life?

 

No, I do NOT ! Nor here, either. And this is one suggestion I find I do not need to consider at all, sorry !

 

And exactly WHAT is the problem you see with NOT retiring breeds ? I haven't seen anyone else in this thread (I just re-read the whole thing) who actually wants this to happen. Not ONE. A couple have said they are OK with migration, but that's as far as it goes. Not even any noticeable support of cyclic retirement. And of the two actually retired breeds - just look at the support for the fact that frills look like returning to the cave