More retired/limited breeds

[Fortis]

I agree that cave blockers are annoying, and do need a better solution.

 

This may sound stupid...but would we be able to create blockers entirely for the AP? Say every hour we drop 100 blockers in there, which helps to balance the cave ratios, therefore making them produce less blockers. More room for desirables. Those who want commons could find them in the AP

Well, I imagine it would make a temporary change in the ratios. Though it'd go back once the mass bred cave blockers timed out or were picked up. But actually raising the AP eggs would make a permenant, if small change to the ratios.

 

Or if you wanted to be sneaky about it, grabbing the AP eggs, raising them to hatchlings, then abandoning them again. Hatchlings are always snatched up really quickly. And it wouldn't take long to raise them, given AP eggs average around the 4-5 day mark. Incubate a bit, slap in a hatchery or emergency room.

 

But I'm getting off topic.

[Kith]

I see retiring breeds as one way, and only one way, certainly not the only way, to get the cave moving.  This is much more about implementing something, anything, that will get the cave to MOVE.  I don't hate any dragon, I appreciate them all and love them.  But the cave itself needs an overhaul and really, I don't care how it's done as long as it is.

But retirement wouldn't make the eggs in the cave move more often, just change the species of the non-moving eggs. It sounds like you'd rather have the intervals of the shuffle (currently every 5 minutes) shortened so that things move around more and what you're looking for is more likely to pop up sooner.

 

This may sound stupid...but would we be able to create blockers entirely for the AP? Say every hour we drop 100 blockers in there, which helps to balance the cave ratios, therefore making them produce less blockers. More room for desirables. Those who want commons could find them in the AP

I was under the impression that the breeding ratios and cave ratios weren't connected anymore. If that's the case, our bred offspring don't affect the cave at all and would just give people a higher chance at breeding rarer things. Not that that's bad, but it wouldn't get more rares into the cave.

[Emeraldmay]

But retirement wouldn't make the eggs in the cave move more often, just change the species of the non-moving eggs. It sounds like you'd rather have the intervals of the shuffle (currently every 5 minutes) shortened so that things move around more and what you're looking for is more likely to pop up sooner.

 

 

I was under the impression that the breeding ratios and cave ratios weren't connected anymore. If that's the case, our bred offspring don't affect the cave at all and would just give people a higher chance at breeding rarer things. Not that that's bad, but it wouldn't get more rares into the cave.

Should of made this clearer, sorry.

 

My idea was to have the cave drop 100 CB eggs, cave generated into the AP to try and balance ratios. A site gesture, not done by players.

 

Although one would be interested to see what would happen to the ratios if we all got on and mass bred commons...

[Kith]

My idea was to have the cave drop 100 CB eggs, cave generated into the AP to try and balance ratios. A site gesture, not done by players.

Oh, okay. That does make more sense. "We" sounded like the players were doing it. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

[RainDear]

This is my opinion, just my opinion. I do not presume to speak for anyone else. If I use "you", it is the general you not anyone specific.

 

1.If you want a better chance to catch rares, the only way to make that possible is to change the ratios so that rares are no longer rare. As long as some dragons are more common than others there will be blockers and rares will be hard to find. You are free to suggest this change if you desire.

 

2.As long as TJ's stand is that any action of this type will affect all dragons and not be limited to some, you stand a chance of Golds, Silvers, and other rares/uncommons being retired. Is that really your purpose?

 

3.Seasons/cycling would make for different cave blockers at intervals, but would not make rare hunting easier. The only thing that would do that is to make rare breeds less rare.

 

4.I am against retiring breeds for all the reasons already mentioned in this thread by myself and others. It will not help the situation you see as a "problem". The situation is not a problem. If you want rares, you have to be willing to put in the necessary time to find/grab them.

[Fuzzbucket]

If you want rares, you have to be willing to put in the necessary time to find/grab them.

This.

 

I don't want to see anything more retired.

[MedievalMystic]

If you want rares, you have to be willing to put in the necessary time to find/grab them.

 

Is that so? You must have a whole lot of time on your hands. So, I'm supposed to work 8-12 hours a day, take care of my house, yard, animals and chores, blow off anything else enjoyable I might do with my measly time off and sit around here and 'put in the necessary time' to stare at blockers and little else to find and grab a wanted egg. That's brilliant! Why didn't I think of that? I'll just use up the little bit of time I have not working sitting around staring at blockers in case I get lucky! Who needs such a piddly little thing such as sleep anyway?

 

It's not that simple.

Edited October 16, 2014 by MedievalMystic

[RecycledHeart]

Is that so? You must have a whole lot of time on your hands. So, I'm supposed to work 8-12 hours a day, take care of my house, yard, animals and chores, blow off anything else enjoyable I might do with my measly time off and sit around here and 'put in the necessary time' to stare at blockers and little else to find and grab a wanted egg. That's brilliant! Why didn't I think of that? I'll just use up the little bit of time I have not working sitting around staring at blockers in case I get lucky! Who needs such a piddly little thing such as sleep anyway?

 

It's not that simple.

But you're not the only one. Most of us here have jobs as well or go to school. We all have our own families and issues to take care of. If you really are having trouble getting a certain egg, then go to one of the trading or gifting threads. There's a reason why they exist. But even if you retire some commons, new ones will just come along and block the ap. There are tons of dragons waiting to be released in the Dr and cr. Then you'll just have to deal with them being the new ap blockers. Maybe on the weekends you can set aside a certain amount of time just for ap searching?

[Sundew]

Is that so?  You must have a whole lot of time on your hands.  So, I'm supposed to work 8-12 hours a day, take care of my house, yard, animals and chores, blow off anything else enjoyable I might do with my measly  time off and sit around here and 'put in the necessary time' to stare at blockers and little else to find and grab a wanted egg.  That's brilliant!  Why didn't I think of that?  I'll just use up the little bit of time I have not working sitting around staring at blockers in case I get lucky!  Who needs such a piddly little thing such as sleep anyway? 

 

It's not that simple.

I got most of my CB rares by either trading or just checking in on whatever Biome I'm stalking at the :05 and :00 marks. You do not need to put in an enormous amount of time to catch rares, but you must be diligent. If you don't want to spend time hunting, trade. I'm usually able to get a pretty rare for 2-3 common hatchies. There are plenty of ways to get rares, and only a few of them involve actively staring at the cave!

If you want the satisfaction of getting your own egg, or can't seem to find a trade you want, just pop in at the five minute marks. There are 24 opportunities to look at a mass drop, and 264 5-minute drops in between. Surely you can find the time to visit at least one of them? If not, trade--join gifting groups, watch the Community Departures thread, participate in TAE,LAE, etc. Lots of people with either busy schedules or slow Internet connections still manage to collect rares, and there's no reason why you shouldn't be one of them.

[edwardelricfreak]

It's a game. You're not required to grab rares. All raindear is saying is that if you want them, put in the effort to find them. If you don't have the time, it's NOT the game's fault. This game is all about waiting- waiting for things to hatch, to grow up, to get off cooldown, etc. It's fine if you don't have the time. I'm not trying to say "sucks for you!" but really, if you don't have the time, you just don't, but that doesn't mean the game should have to bend over and make rares easier to get for your sake, much less anyone else's sake. If you don't have time for a game, there are multiple options to choose: don't care, care but realize it's not something that can be changed, move on to something else, make time to hunt for rares, or just whatever else.

 

I don't really have the time, either, and I HATE sitting around waiting in the cave. I want to be doing *something* other than clicking refresh and just watching as the same blockers come up. Even *I* don't have a single CB metallic because they're crazy expensive when it comes to trading and I simply don't have the patience for it. BUT just because I don't want to sit around waiting does NOT mean I want all the blockers to retire. Even if they do, when you sit and wait you'll be doing nothing other than *still* looking at the same description, even if it's different than the one you saw a few months ago.

 

It IS a problem and retiring breeds IS a solution, but I don't believe it's the best solution is my point. There are many other solutions I prefer, one of those being migration/seasonal cycling, and another being more biomes to disperse the eggs.

[RainDear]

Is that so? You must have a whole lot of time on your hands. So, I'm supposed to work 8-12 hours a day, take care of my house, yard, animals and chores, blow off anything else enjoyable I might do with my measly time off and sit around here and 'put in the necessary time' to stare at blockers and little else to find and grab a wanted egg. That's brilliant! Why didn't I think of that? I'll just use up the little bit of time I have not working sitting around staring at blockers in case I get lucky! Who needs such a piddly little thing such as sleep anyway?

 

It's not that simple.

My goal has been 2 cb/2gen pairs of each breed/variation. It has taken me until this year to get 4 CB Golds and Silvers. Two of those were given to me because of my profile. One I traded a large number of past holiday breedings for. I'm not saying that it is easy, just that changing the dragons available will not make it easier for anyone.

[JavaTigress]

Also IF I may interject here:

 

TJ mentioned something in the thread about migration that, I think, folks saying they want 'blockers' retired so they can hunt rares might do well to keep in mind. It isn't JUST the annoyingly common dragons that would migrate... it'd be the sought after rares, too. I wonder if that goes the same for this suggestion, too... that if breeds start being retired NOBODY is sacred, safe or off limits for retirement. I believe that TJ has hinted as much. That is what worries me about this suggestion.

 

That and the fact that some people actually DO like to collect those commons.

 

BESIDES: What's a 'blocker' ( Though I frankly dislike the term, I use it here to b understood) is all in a matter of perspective. It always seems to me like the one dragon I am looking for ( However common the breed might be otherwise) ALWAYS seems to try to stay away from me. Just today I was looking for a CB electric egg and do you think I could find such a common egg easily. Not on your life. Which just goes to show.

Edited October 16, 2014 by Silverswift

[cyradis4]

Also IF I may interject here:

 

TJ mentioned something in the thread about migration that, I think, folks saying they want 'blockers' retired so they can hunt rares might do well to keep in mind. It isn't JUST the annoyingly common dragons that would migrate... it'd be the sought after rares, too. I wonder if that goes the same for this suggestion, too... that if breeds start being retired NOBODY is sacred, safe or off limits for retirement. I believe that TJ has hinted as much. That is what worries me about this suggestion.

 

That and the fact that some people actually DO like to collect those commons.

 

BESIDES: What's a 'blocker' ( Though I frankly dislike the term, I use it here to b understood) is all in a matter of perspective. It always seems to me like the one dragon I am looking for ( However common the breed might be otherwise) ALWAYS seems to try to stay away from me. Just today I was looking for a CB electric egg and do you think I could find such a common egg easily. Not on your life. Which just goes to show.

This being TJ we're talking about, I'm almost certain that any solution would apply to all dragons in the cave: rare and blockers alike. TJ has stated before that he dislikes exceptions to rules.

 

Cheers!

C4.

[Ribombee]

I'm a graduate student. I teach undergrads, take my own classes, do my own research, do side research, and read scientific papers. I'm also married and have pets. I have a lot of responsibilities. That being said, I've been playing for a bit less than a year and have several CB silvers and three CB golds. It's doable. Like ANY game, you do have to spend time on it. If someone said, "It's not fair that I can't finish this RPG game because I don't have time," it'd be absurd to contact the game maker and tell them to make a version that practically plays itself so those with little time can finish it. If someone was in a sports team and couldn't attend practices because they were busy, they'd likely get kicked off the team, not have the game changed so they could play without putting any time in. That is, sadly, just life. We all have to decide what is and is not important. I give up some of my other leisure activities to get the dragons I want. I grade or read articles between the five minute marks and just refresh right at the five minute marks.

 

The reason this game is good for busy people is that (with the exception of holidays), you don't have to have any specific schedule to be able to play it. I can wake up at 3am because I couldn't sleep well, check the biomes a few times, and go back to sleep. I don't have to worry about being able to be on at a certain time or on a certain day. I could go months without playing, if I got really busy, and still be able to come back and get everything I missed (again, other than holiday releases). This is why I stopped playing ChickenSmoothie and started playing DC. That is the element that makes DC stand apart from other online collectables games.

 

Think, also, about how retiring would affect lineage projects. Some lines include common cave blockers. I have a line of pillow/Autumn checkers that I'm starting. It will already be challenging, as I can only get new fathers during the fall. If pillows were retired, that would be the end of the line. DC has carved out a very unique niche in the online game community, and removing that niche would only serve to take away what brings in so many people who are tired of the same generic collectables games.

[Oasis]

Retiring any number of commons will never solve the cave blocker "problem" (which really isn't a problem, as much as an inevitability), because getting rid of a common won't make a rare pop up, it'll just make another common pop up instead. You could literally retire every common except for flamingos and the cave would reasonably have to consist of 90% flamingos. The only thing that could make less "blockers" appear would be a flood of 50+ new uncommon and rare breeds, which likely isn't going to happen any time soon.

 

I feel like a lot of people are missing a basic rule of games like this: in order for rare dragon breeds to be rare, they have to be rare. At first glance this should seem obvious, but some still miss that this means that if golds were suddenly abundant in cave, their rarity would skydive and they wouldn't be in high demand anymore, since anyone could easily get one. Right now, golds are very hard to obtain, so everyone wants a CB and are willing to trade a lot of stuff for one. If they were abundant, no one would trade for them and they would just go catch their own. I hope this explains why you can't make rares common and expect them to still have the value of a rare. (admit it. 90% of the reason why you want a gold is for the trading value, or so you can brag about and show off your amazing dragon hunting ability.)

 

I've also seen some flat out ridiculous requests in this thread, for example, the person who said, "an egg shouldn't be sitting in the cave for any longer than a few seconds." Would you like to sit in the cave and pick commons to keep it moving? No? I didn't think so. If you're suggesting that the cave have a continuous cycle system, I've got to add why that could never work out. You probably think that it would cycle through the blocker commons and unwanted uncommons faster, and you're right, it would be like that for the first couple of days. However, to keep the ratios going right, it would have to even out so that 99% of the cycle would be common, so that rares stay rare. It wouldn't be much of an improvement, and it would just be different flamingos blocking the cave instead of the same one. Honestly, just be patient and wait for the five-minute drops. At least we don't have to wait for the hourly ones anymore.

 

The only reasons a dragon breed would be retired are:

1) If a breed gets so common that it is literally the only thing in the AP (how frills went)

2) If the spriter wishes that they be removed (also frills)

(the way pinks were phased out is unlikely to happen again)

Edited October 19, 2014 by Oasis

[purplehaze]

Oasis, I think you have said it very well!

 

There have always been "blockers" (I hate that term!) and there always will. If there were not blockers then rare dragons wouldn't be rare. It is meant to work that way.

 

I don't really see a problem with the way the cave functions now. We get eggs shuffled at 5 minute intervals, we get a new flood of eggs on the hour, and the AP no longer blocks the drop of new eggs. So theoretically a little patience should make it possible to get the rarer eggs. I haven't been able to make that a reality myself, yet, but a lot of that has to do with my lack of patience in sitting around waiting for eggs to shuffle. (And when I go off to do something else until the next shuffle I inevitably stay too long away and miss it. )

[F.ury]

I had an idea on how to deal with some of the cave blockers. People don't seem to want to pick up caveblocker eggs but they love taking caveblocker hatchlings.

 

What if caveblocker commons could potentially hatch faster? Right now all eggs can hatch at 4 days. This would remain the same for most eggs. However, eggs from the few most prominent caveblocker breeds could have a chance at hatching anywhere between 5 days and 4 days 12 hours. The information about which caveblockers are the most common would NOT be public knowledge; only TJ would get to know that. All the users would have to make educated guesses as to which breeds are currently the most common and are eligible for faster hatching times. People would be guessing which breeds can hatch faster and then all rushing to grab eggs of a certain breed once that breed has been confirmed to currently have faster hatching times. The rush of people grabbing that breed would cause that breed to become less common, which would stop the faster hatching times for that breed. Then, people would search for the next breed that can hatch faster. This would help "switch up" the common species that are currently caveblockers. The common breeds would still stay common but you wouldn't be seeing the same common breeds as cave blockers all the time. This method would cause common eggs to hatch faster and then people would have the common hatchlings that are much more desirable. Yes, many common hatchlings get frozen but they still count towards the ratios that way.

 

Thoughts on this? Could this possibly work?

Edited October 20, 2014 by F.ury

[diaveborn]

F.ury, I have no idea about the game mechanics / feasibility of that idea, but it sounds really, really cool!

[BrightStarBella]

I just have to say that I am absolutely against the idea of having any more dragon breeds be retired, just because a few people don't have them as favorites!

I don't think it's really needed here and it adds more unfairness to the game.

(I am still upset about not being able to get any Frilled Dragons, since they were retired around the time I started out as a new player here.)

If you don't like it, then don't collect it, but don't take those breeds away from the people that do like them!!!

[Firebirdwyvern]

Actually, the commons tend to be hard to find. I was trying to look for an albino and Pillow dragon but I couldn't find them because of all the new dragon releases.

 

Thus it's not really needed, also, what if you decide you need a certain dragon?

[Syphoneira]

The more variety in breeds being Dropped in the Cave, the more variety in the eggs available at any particular time, and the more likely that someone refreshing will see something that they could use - and get some movement happening.

 

To anyone who recalls the previous endless refreshes over the same 3 eggs, with a desperation removal of one too-often resulting in one of the same sprite replacing the one you took in your second-last spot, reducing the variety of dragons sounds counterproductive.

 

As has been pointed out, the retirement of any Commons would result in the increase of other still-existing Commons to replace them, merely reducing variety and the chances of movement.

 

All that would be achieved would be to make even more breeds unavailable to those who DO want them - and an even more boring, slow-moving Cave.

 

The problem is that various types of eggs are still generated beyond the capacity of the Cave environment (us) to support their numbers, and unless the quantities of those excessive sprites are reduced, blockage will remain an issue.

 

MORE variety in Commons should continue to help the situation, which is certainly much better than it was before we began getting regular Releases of new dragons.

[Esdren]

I'm in disagreement to this idea. It would hurt the game greatly if we were to remove species just so it would be easier for us to play as we are now or help with the fluctuation of the cave. Anything thats discontinued would be dearly missed. Even if the old players will have the ability to flaunt the fact they own a discontinued species it wouldn't be fair to new players that may find a dragon to their liking and not being able to obtain them.

Seeing as DC is a sandbox adoptables game, discontinuing dragons should be the last thing to consider if we want to fix our problems, as it would just cause more. Isn't the point of the game to collect all the dragons? If we started to discontinue more dragons then it would turn into a game of players who started playing sooner and own limited dragons would be superior and "pro", and new players wouldn't find it difficult to get anything thats valuable.

[Crystal-Dragon-Gem]

I was hoping/wondering if there is any more information about the Bright Pinks or Frills ever coming back??

I was lucky enough to get a Frill, but the lineage is so long, and never had a chance to get a Bright.

 

so was hoping to know if there is a chance for these pretties making another appearance ??

[olympe]

Frills might have a comeback sometime in the future, as their spriter and conceptor, Lythiaren, agrees to this. I think she wanted to do some more work on them, but I'm not 100% sure.

 

Bright Pinks, on the other hand, most likely won't come back ever, as TJ prefers to not discuss their fate at all. (Rumor has it that their spriter wanted them pulled, but she, in turn, claims to never have asked for their removal. Whatever is true, we don't have a clue.)

[stagazer_7]

I have no words in which to describe the full extent of my disagreement with everything about this idea, so I'm not going to try - I will however let my man

sum it up.

 

No support.

Edited January 11, 2016 by stagazer_7