More retired/limited breeds

[purplehaze]

I think we need to go back to your basic premise, that there are too many breeds in the cave.

 

First of all, most of us don't agree that there are too many at this point.

 

Secondly, if there were too many, most of us feel there are better ways of dealing with it than this suggestion.

 

That doesn't mean that we haven't considered this option. It just means we feel it is too extreme to be a workable solution.

[SMence]

I have yet to see the good side of retiring the breeds instead of making them rotate according to seasons and the like, I'm sorry but your arguments haven't convinced many. Of course we should, sometimes, consider other options when facing a problem, but even in real life, it is normal to choose the path that has minimized negative effects on people, while still being efficient.

 

As you can see, many people would be extremely displeased with having their favorite dragons retired, to the point that they would quit the game (me included), but would be fine with some kind of rotation. This should be enough of a reason to not do what you've suggested, although you have the right to stand your ground, but so do other people, I'm afraid you won't succeed in changing people's minds.

[Fuzzbucket]

I think we need to go back to your basic premise, that there are too many breeds in the cave.

 

First of all, most of us don't agree that there are too many at this point.

 

Secondly, if there were too many, most of us feel there are better ways of dealing with it than this suggestion.

 

That doesn't mean that we haven't considered this option. It just means we feel it is too extreme to be a workable solution.

That's true. I guess by realising I was against it, I did consider it for a millisecond !

[JavaTigress]

I have to say that I agree with Fuzz on this one.

 

There are plenty of times when possible options to problems aren't even considered because the 'cure' is worse than the 'disease'. Just saying. AND... there are many, myself included, that feel that is the case with retiring breeds to deal with overcrowding. They believe that there are better options IF they feel that the number of breeds is a problem at all.

Edited September 14, 2014 by Silverswift

[olympe]

So you're saying you do not consider all options in real life? Or are you saying that you don't consider options when you see other people being against them - as in, you form your opinion based on other people's opinions?

 

Then, I would like you to tell me more about DC's uniqueness.

I sure do consider any options that seem viable. However, there are several options that are much better than actually retiring breeds - so I don't need to consider this one before all else fails.

[Rosedamai]

So you're saying you do not consider all options in real life? Or are you saying that you don't consider options when you see other people being against them - as in, you form your opinion based on other people's opinions?

 

Then, I would like you to tell me more about DC's uniqueness.

No, I don't. If I am in a hurry that does not mean I can hit pedestrians crossing the street. I am quite sure that even if I didn't have any ethical reservations against it said pedestrians and their loved ones would be quite upset with me.

 

We all form out opinions based on other people's opinions-why do you think advertising companies are so successful, lol. There is absolutely no way you can be completely, 100% free from other people's opinions, whether it's values instilled to you from your parents and mind you it is still considered influence if you rebel against it, to the person who complimented your clothes and made you feel good.

 

Unique things about DC:

1. It does not have "limited" breeds in the sense that they only appear at certain times of the year and never breed.

2. It does not retire breeds.

3. It does not have "hoarding".

4. It does not require me to use in-game currency.

5. It does not have exclusive sprites that are given to people who donate to the site.

 

There you go. That's just off the top of my head.

Edited September 14, 2014 by ylangylang

[JavaTigress]

I ALSO have to say... it bears considering, when thinking of DC suggestions, how likely they are to get accepted by TJ.

 

He has the final say, after all.

 

Why would a suggestion that has LITTLE hope of getting accepted even be considered? I don't honestly see this idea getting accepted by him for a number of reasons. For one, it would be IMMENSELY unpopular as this thread demonstrates well enough. For another, there are certain unique things about DC, mentioned in Ylanylang's post above mine, that TJ has said he doesn't particularly want to change. Finally and this is a point that needs to be made, it comes across as a plea to make rares easier to hunt. TJ is dead set against that, because rares are supposed to be rare. THAT being said, IF breeds were retired, it wouldn't make the rares everyone is hunting easier to find, TJ would be sure of THAT. As someone else said, I forget where that post was, the ratios would make it so that other commons appeared more often, not the rares. You'd just be trading one set of 'blockers' for another. NOT that I feel it is fair to call any breed blockers anymore. For one thing they CAN'T block off the AP the way they once did and... for heaven's sake... there are several biomes now to hunt in. If nothing appears that you want, why no look else ware? Furthermore, if the new site art is ANY indicator, there MAY be new biomes in the works. Not definite, of course, but TJ may already have plans laid out to deal with crowding.

 

It was this kind of drama that got out of hand with the Frills and got them taken away.

I do NOT want to see that again.

Don't scapegoat on dragons just because you can't find what you are hunting for. End of story.

Edited September 14, 2014 by Silverswift

[olympe]

No, it wasn't this what got the frills into retirement. Not really. But I'll leave that discussion to a lady whose hand shoots bees.

[JavaTigress]

No, it wasn't this what got the frills into retirement. Not really. But I'll leave that discussion to a lady whose hand shoots bees.

Oh? maybe I am mistaken, then.

 

I was always of the impression, and mind you, I was here, but not really involved int he drama, that people were hating on them and insulting them because they were viewed as 'too common'. The artist got sick of it and asked for them to be pulled. If this is wrong, that is maybe my mistake... that is how I always understood it.

 

If that is wrong, again, I only REALLY found out about it all when the announcement was given that frills were being retired. My point was... be careful wishing dragons away, you might just get your wish!

Edited September 14, 2014 by Silverswift

[Pixxelation]

Out of all the 73 people who have replied to this topic, not including you, 72 have expressed dislike for this idea, the vast majority of them extremely so, threatening to leave the game or play much less frequently in the event that this were to be implemented. The one user who didn't express dislike was a moderator simply giving a reminder not to attack each other, and they did not express an opinion either way. I know 72 people is a small number compared to the amount of active users on the site, but if there was a large amount of support for this suggestion, it would have had at least one support by now. I think the current suggestion needs to be dropped and reworked to address the most common complaint; users are against the idea that breeds should become completely unobtainable forever, many of which don't like temporary retirement as well, unless it applies to holidays.

[JavaTigress]

Out of all the 73 people who have replied to this topic, not including you, 72 have expressed dislike for this idea, the vast majority of them extremely so, threatening to leave the game or play much less frequently in the event that this were to be implemented. The one user who didn't express dislike was a moderator simply giving a reminder not to attack each other, and they did not express an opinion either way. I know 72 people is a small number compared to the amount of active users on the site, but if there was a large amount of support for this suggestion, it would have had at least one support by now. I think the current suggestion needs to be dropped and reworked to address the most common complaint; users are against the idea that breeds should become completely unobtainable forever, many of which don't like temporary retirement as well, unless it applies to holidays.

O.O WOAH! That is... a LOT of hate for this idea.

 

I knew it was unpopular, but didn't realize it was THAT unpopular.

[Pixxelation]

Yup, I went through the thread. There were no supports. Then, I counted the amount of people who replied. Subtracted Z and the OP.

[Fuzzbucket]

Yup, I went through the thread. There were no supports. Then, I counted the amount of people who replied. Subtracted Z and the OP.

Thanks Pie - I went through it too, but never thought to do an actual head count !

[_Sin_]

So you're saying you do not consider all options in real life? Or are you saying that you don't consider options when you see other people being against them - as in, you form your opinion based on other people's opinions?

Speaking for myself, not fuzzbucket...

In real life I tend to consider all the options that I know of. On the same way, I considered your option as a solution for issues you referenced. Some of those issues are not, still in my opinion, real issues or anything I'm concerned about. So, I considered your solution for the remaining issue(s) and I don't think it is the best solution. Actually I think it would create consequences that there are worse than the issue. So, there is no lack of consideration. There is consideration of pros and cons, and thumbs-down outcome on my part.

[KageSora]

Because, as with situations in real life, one should consider all options.

I find that it's pointless to consider certain options unless as a last resort in real life quite often. And that time and energy is better spent going towards considering options that are more useful/less likely to cause drama.

 

Additionally, I have considered your option--and I have rejected it as a viable solution to the problems you claim to exist. Even considering that they exist (which I don't see at the time being), I reject it as a viable solution because I feel the amount of negativity that would arise from it's impact on my ability to play how I want would make it a "solution" that would quite possibly drive me from the game.

 

Clearly others have considered and rejected this as a solution as well.

 

In my experience, once a proposed solution is rejected it is dropped from consideration unless all other alternatives meet with similar rejection or failure, and then it is POSSIBLY reconsidered purely as a last resort, often with any lessons learned from the rejection/failure of the other alternatives taken into consideration to attempt to make it a less problematic "fix".

 

Of course there should not be any special treatment (with the exception of BSA dragons for their abilities). No one gets discriminated, all players get the chance to lose their favorite dragon.

 

Oh no--if we start retiring breeds, BSA dragons need to go, too. Introduce the BSA's in new forms on new dragons. But don't give them a special pass. Because that opens the gate for people to go "But X dragon is special because Y reason, it can't be retired either!"

 

Also, what about hybrid breeders? Should they be retired, thus making hybrids harder to get, too?

[Fuzzbucket]

Oh no--if we start retiring breeds, BSA dragons need to go, too. Introduce the BSA's in new forms on new dragons. But don't give them a special pass. Because that opens the gate for people to go "But X dragon is special because Y reason, it can't be retired either!"

Exactly this, too.

[Sundew]

The breeds are absolutely fine the way they are. Newbies already miss out on Frills, Bright Pinks, and released CB holidays. There's no need to add more breeds to this list. I don't think there's a single breed here that isn't appreciated enough to warrant a discontinuation. Something like this would only serve to anger people.

[Naruhina_94]

The breeds are absolutely fine the way they are. Newbies already miss out on Frills, Bright Pinks, and released CB holidays. There's no need to add more breeds to this list. I don't think there's a single breed here that isn't appreciated enough to warrant a discontinuation. Something like this would only serve to anger people.

Exactly my thoughts. I would add that newbies aren't the ones who are sad because they lost the chance to have an old CB holiday or even a frilled, but also people who had to work during the relase's days and cannot took them. They didn't appreciat, too.

[Jazeki]

Oh no--if we start retiring breeds, BSA dragons need to go, too. Introduce the BSA's in new forms on new dragons. But don't give them a special pass. Because that opens the gate for people to go "But X dragon is special because Y reason, it can't be retired either!"

 

Also, what about hybrid breeders? Should they be retired, thus making hybrids harder to get, too?

Keep in mind that if this were implemented, TJ probably would not give any dragons a special pass. He made a note in the migration thread reminding users that if the suggestion were to be implemented, all of the breeds would migrate--not just a select few. I suspect that by this logic many breeds would be up for retirement. The BSA and hybrid producing dragons would be a bit safer due to the fact that they serve other purposes, but if they block the cave at any point, they will probably be considered for retirement.

[KageSora]

I don't see why they would be any safer.

 

The BSA's can be introduced either in the same form on new dragons or in a new BSA that has the same effect, I would imagine. As for hybrids... Actually, yeah, I can see the parent breeds getting retired--that would, in effect, either fully or partially retire the hybrids themselves, and if all dragons are up for retirement then hybrids are no different.

 

It's just one more way to piss off the players by taking away dragons they like or ways to obtain them.

[Jazeki]

I don't see why they would be any safer.

 

The BSA's can be introduced either in the same form on new dragons or in a new BSA that has the same effect, I would imagine.  As for hybrids...  Actually, yeah, I can see the parent breeds getting retired--that would, in effect, either fully or partially retire the hybrids themselves, and if all dragons are up for retirement then hybrids are no different.

 

It's just one more way to piss off the players by taking away dragons they like or ways to obtain them.

I'm not saying I'm in support of it. I was agreeing with you. I'm just noting that TJ would probably be less likely to consider the ones with BSAs and those that produce hybrids for retirement before other breeds that serve no "special function." I never meant that hybrids/ BSA dragons were different and beyond consideration-- just that given a choice between say a whiptail that does nothing and a pebble that produces a geode and has a BSA, the whiptail will probably be the first to go in an instance of thinning the DC cave population. (Note: this is hypothetical and I'm not saying that whiptails should actually go anywhere. I like them.) After all, as you say, a BSA can be replaced with another BSA. So too can a retired hybrid be replaced with another hybrid.

Edited September 16, 2014 by Jazeki

[Angelina Gienah]

I do see where you are coming from--even the "common" eggs are hard to get sometimes because of the sheer number of species and so few eggs available at one time. I don't feel like retiring certain breeds is the answer though, even if to make the dragon more desirable.

 

 

If anything, maybe we should have five eggs per cave at a time instead of just three

[olympe]

I do see where you are coming from--even the "common" eggs are hard to get sometimes because of the sheer number of species and so few eggs available at one time. I don't feel like retiring certain breeds is the answer though, even if to make the dragon more desirable.

 

 

If anything, maybe we should have five eggs per cave at a time instead of just three

I doubt this would help at all. It will only lead to the biome being blocked with 5 commons that nobody picks up - instead of just 3.

[avoralei]

but this will ruin certain breeding projects, and that itself will drive people crazy

[Melisande]

Personally I hope that they do not retire any more dragons. I loved the pinks... the new fake ones are not as pretty and I am still sad that I will never be able to complete my scroll goals because I will never be able to get any more pinks or frills.

 

I think discontinuing dragons is always a bad move, and that unless the artist tells TJ to pull the sprite off the site that no more dragons should ever be retired.

 

- New Users would never be able to get the dragons

- People who have the breeds in lineage projects would be stuck / projects would be killed

- Reduces the number of dragons that could potentially be given a BSA or a hybrid type

- Collectors who do not have their scroll goals will never be able to finish their scrolls

- It makes people feel bad seeing others with things that you know you will never be able to get, no matter how hard you try or how much you do in the game. I know you can get some special things as prizes from events but I know that at least one (if not both) retired dragons are not choices for event prizes. So if a dragon goes on the bye bye list it would never be attainable.

Edited September 29, 2014 by Melisande