ANSWERED:Release a Coal Version of the prize dragon?

[Sundew]

No, I don't think I'm in favor of this. I wouldn't be upset if it happened, but I'd much rather have a permanent, entirely new breed be released than a recolor.

 

The raffles are raffles, and are people's only real chance to a get a special dragon for their own, so--as long as dragons like Prizes with limited availability don't become a norm on DC--I'd rather have just the one (or two, now) special, limited breed. I can still collect the sprites, and I can still make gorgeous lineages, and to me that's enough. I'm already able to collect a CB of almost every other dragon.

[Mew_1]

Conflicting points here, but whatever.

 

I think I like this idea. It doesn't harm those who do win prizes, and yet everyone can feel like their time was at least worth something so they therefore shouldn't have a reason to complain. (Not saying that everybody does complain, but I've seen it before and there were times when I wonder how many people just didn't bother trying the event because they think they don't have a chance at getting something.)

 

And yet I understand the other side too. This is, when you break it down, pretty much a lottery, and most participants don't get anything no matter how much they spend on tickets. That's just how they tend to work.

 

I'm assuming, if this was made a thing, that we can't choose our own codes and that would be left to the regular prize winners though, right?

[Syphoneira]

Well, this seems to have been necro'd from March in a timely manner!

 

 

Personally, I still rather like the idea of a 'Raffle ticket' dragon on the scrolls of all participants.

 

It's a beautiful new version of an existing sprite added in a different manner than has ever been used before, (like the Summoning, only in reverse, so that all participants get it and presumably can abandon/gift/trade if unwanted,) which adds to the excitement of the events and season without detracting from anything else.

 

 

Edit: presumably we'd have to accept the sprite, rather than just having them appear, or not appear on scrolls with no room? so those not wanting one could simply not accept it.

 

Don't know why this didn't occur to me before...

 

 

Btw, prizes on Raffles (typically existing because intended to raise money for some purpose,) are generally dependent on donations, so that prizes are limited by the numbers and types available, and donated attendance prizes may be issued, if very rarely possible, due to limitations in what's available - sending sprites to everyone participating in DC's Raffle 'costs' already created work on a sprite (assuming Marrionetta still prefers not to have involvement regarding her lovely sprite,) we saw examples of earlier in the year and coding time and effort TJ routinely engages in to maintain and improve the site.

 

 

Edited November 15, 2014 by Syphoneira

[Keileon]

I do still like this idea very much.

 

It's not a handout if it's obviously going to be less valuable than the actual prizes. If you don't want the egg forced on you, lock yourself or gift it.

 

Just because someone feels that they're walking away from the event empty-handed doesn't mean they don't respect the effort the spriters put into the event, either. Why not toss participants a bone to show they at least get something out of it besides a badge and fleeting memories?

[OtomeKristinOtaku]

This seems like a nice idea! It's just a consolation prize, after all, I like this idea.(your very own prize dragon)

I have a question though: do HM winners get the coal version? And are the coal shimmers gonna be handed out every year? Or only one per scroll? (do you get a choice to not accept the prize?)

[DragonLady86]

It's a raffle. Everyone is not meant to be a winner. You don't get a prize for showing up. Just the joy of participating in whatever fun event is made to generate the tickets. I do not want to see handouts. Dragons are supposed to be caught not given to you. Prizes are an exception. Because they are Prizes. You don't get a participation award in life. sorry.

 

And, honestly, even we did get a black shimmer released, it would only cause MORE drama with everyone complaining that the "Tinsels are better and should also be given a recolor". Which isn't going to happen because the artist doesn't want black versions.

 

 

 

I, would, actually prefer more prizes given out each year. Yes, technically, the total number doubled last year what had been released the previous 3. But it should be based on how many enter. A percentage, rather than a set number. I really think that would go much farther in solving the over-all problem.

[Syphoneira]

This seems like a nice idea! It's just a consolation prize, after all, I like this idea.(your very own prize dragon)

I have a question though: do HM winners get the coal version? And are the coal shimmers gonna be handed out every year? Or only one per scroll? (do you get a choice to not accept the prize?)

 

 

 

 

 

This is just a Suggestion thread, dormant since last March and just revived, but since it's suggested as 'coal in our stockings' for all participants, the implication would be that all participants should get one, IF the idea should be implemented.

 

I believe this was suggested as an annual addition to the usual Prize event, and IF it should be implemented as something we have to 'accept' on our scrolls, obviously one could choose whether to take it, or if auto-placed on the scroll, choose whether to Abandon/gift/trade it.

 

I have no idea what, if anything, may be going on with this, but I'd love it to happen myself.

 

 

 

Hi, DragonLady86,

 

a lot of us would like to see more Prize CBs given out, lol, although this certainly wouldn't prevent any extras.

 

The idea is not that everyone wins a Prize dragon.

 

The suggestion is for an attendance prize, (a gift, actually, despite the term,) such as has been given out on smaller raffles where donated prizes allow for this; this raffle, however, isn't limited to donations of physical objects, but requires those of time and effort, such as with spriting/recolouring (already done, we saw the recoloured sprite,) and the sort of coding work TJ already does on the site.

 

Marrionetta has already stated in the past that she does not wish her Tinsel sprite to be involved, so unless she's changed her mind over time, this is not an issue that can be suggested by anyone, as lovely as her Tinsels are.

 

It doesn't seem feasible to me that DC should avoid doing anything extra that's nice from the perspective of most of the players merely because of a concern of a potential for relatively few complaints among a group of thousands of players that they'd have preferred something else not possible to get to have been included, (no large group of individuals is ever going to agree on everything where taste is involved anyway, lol,) or because 'you don't get participation dragons in RL', because this is a game and we're here to collect dragons that we don't get in RL and have fun that we often don't get in RL.

 

This is why RL sometimes bites and we come here to get away from it.

[bluesonic1]

I agree with DragonLady86's comment- to have a consolation prize like that completely defeats the purpose of having the raffle, as it detracts from the winner's prize. Not only that, but it doesn't solve your highlighted problems of "trading is getting crazy" and "it's hard to breed them"- despite the coal dragons, people will still want the shiny prize dragon, and it actually adds to instead of solving the other raised issue of making it difficult to collect all dragons.

 

As I've said above though, the main reason I oppose this is because it detracts from the winner's prize and therefore defeats the purpose of the raffle. I actually feel a more sensible solution is to not have any more raffles. It just seems to encourage bitter feelings amongst people, and for others to simply grow their competitive nature and be spiteful to one another. I heard plenty of comments regarding the drama raised when people starting arguing as to whether or not the raffle was rigged. I agree with one of the OP's raised points that it doesn't make the game fun anymore- but that's not entirely the prize dragon's fault, but actually the whole raffle's fault. That's just the nature of the raffle. But that's just my opinion.

 

"Everybody's born to compete as he chooses. But how can someone win if winning means that someone loses? I sit and see and wonder what it's like to be in touch; no wonder all my brothers and my sisters need a crutch" - Scatman John.

Edited November 16, 2014 by bluesonic1

[kitsune93]

I really like this idea. I'm always in favor of more dragons to collect.

I don't see how it detracts from the prize winners. A CB tinsel or shimmer will still be a lot more valuable than the coal shimmer. Everyone gets a coal shimmer, only a small amount will get a prize.

 

 

[Sir Barton]

I agree with DragonLady86's comment- to have a consolation prize like that completely defeats the purpose of having the raffle, as it detracts from the winner's prize. Not only that, but it doesn't solve your highlighted problems of "trading is getting crazy" and "it's hard to breed them"- despite the coal dragons, people will still want the shiny prize dragon, and it actually adds to instead of solving the other raised issue of making it difficult to collect all dragons.

 

As I've said above though, the main reason I oppose this is because it detracts from the winner's prize and therefore defeats the purpose of the raffle. I actually feel a more sensible solution is to not have any more raffles. It just seems to encourage bitter feelings amongst people, and for others to simply grow their competitive nature and be spiteful to one another. I heard plenty of comments regarding the drama raised when people starting arguing as to whether or not the raffle was rigged. I agree with one of the OP's raised points that it doesn't make the game fun anymore- but that's not entirely the prize dragon's fault, but actually the whole raffle's fault. That's just the nature of the raffle. But that's just my opinion.

 

"Everybody's born to compete as he chooses. But how can someone win if winning means that someone loses? I sit and see and wonder what it's like to be in touch; no wonder all my brothers and my sisters need a crutch" - Scatman John.

Scatman! That's awesome!

 

Now that's been said, I don't see how a dull version is going to distract from the shiny ones that the prize winners get. People will always want the shiny dragons, and there will always be very few of those at the CB level. They'll always be in demand and special.

 

While I have never been in favor of the raffle from day one and would like to see if done away with, I wouldn't mind seeing a coal version of these dragons made available. My reasoning for that has nothing to do with trade values or soothing hurt feelings. I simply think that these are some of the nicest artwork we have, and feel that it would be nice to see the sprites become available for use something other than stairstep lineages... without having to have a "connection."

 

Frankly, I think a gray or pewter version of prize dragons would be really pretty, and simply make a nice addition to the cave.

Edited November 16, 2014 by Sir Barton

[Jazeki]

Months later, I am still in support of this idea. I also don't think that the coal dragon would do anything to detract from the value of the actual prizes. That argument is akin to the argument that new batches of prizes every year detract from the value of previously won prizes. If it's an argument regarding color or the idea that someone else got something even though they aren't a winner, then spriter alts would also fall under the category of sprites that detract from actual prizes. The whole idea is silly. A prize is still a prize. It doesn't lose value in the eyes of those that didn't win.

 

The coal dragon allows players to enjoy their raffle activity festivities beyond the week of actual participation in the game/event and the wait for the winner announcement. It also allows them to enjoy their festivities in DC by raising more dragons. The coal dragon isn't limited to a scroll number or a breeding season and CBs can still only be obtained by those who participated in the raffle.

[djengis]

Id rather have Everyone that doesnt win be able to Pick one Wild Dragon.

 

[Sundew]

Id rather have Everyone that doesnt win be able to Pick one Wild Dragon.

Please, NO. Dragons in the wild are in the wild for a reason. I release dragons because I want to make sure I won't breed them anymore. Knowing they would still be available for others would force me to Kill them, and I'd like to save my Kill slots for misbred eggs and such.

 

I release dragons because I don't want others to get their hands on them. Their offspring can still breed, so the lines aren't dead. Releasing is deciding what you want to do with your own dragons--and I want them to stay released.

 

If this did become a possibility, the Wilderness would be a desolate wasteland after just a few raffles. All the good dragons would be gone.

People would also be able to pick up abandoned raffle prizes, potentially lowering the specialness of winning in the first place.

 

Please, let's leave the Wilderness as it is: wild and untamable.

[RecycledHeart]

Please, NO. Dragons in the wild are in the wild for a reason. I release dragons because I want to make sure I won't breed them anymore. Knowing they would still be available for others would force me to Kill them, and I'd like to save my Kill slots for misbred eggs and such.

 

I release dragons because I don't want others to get their hands on them. Their offspring can still breed, so the lines aren't dead. Releasing is deciding what you want to do with your own dragons--and I want them to stay released.

 

If this did become a possibility, the Wilderness would be a desolate wasteland after just a few raffles. All the good dragons would be gone.

People would also be able to pick up abandoned raffle prizes, potentially lowering the specialness of winning in the first place.

 

Please, let's leave the Wilderness as it is: wild and untamable.

TJ I believe has also stated that wilderness dragons shall always remain wild no matter what.And I have to agree with that.

 

If people have an issue with people getting a participation prize just for being there, then perhaps we could have levels in the event? Like say the next one has 50 levels. If you get to level 25 then you can have a coal shimmer. Level 50 means that you're in the raffle for the grand prize.

 

I don't believe coal shimmers would detract value from cb and 2nd gen prize shimmers simply because plently of people will get to level 25 to get to level 50, so the amount of coals will greatly outweigh the amount of shinies.

On that note, yes I think that coal shimmers should breed true. And produce more of their own eggs then others to help make them a bit more common. Maybe have them breed like an uncommon?

It shouldn't be limited to one per scroll, and players should be free to do whatever they want with their coals simply because its THEIRS.

 

Prize winners should be able to get a coal, simply because that's FAIR instead of not letting them. It wasn't their fault they won a prize dragon. They don't have to have it but they should have the choice if they want to or not. People who complain about them getting two dragons aren't being fair. What if you didn't want prize winners to get a coal and then suddenly you won? You wouldn't be feeling so good then. You'd probably want the coal too. (You is generic)

 

Also just an idea, but you know how tinsels and shimmers were released for two years? Why not do that with the coals? That way if somebody were to miss the event they can do it next year. And if no new prize dragons are released then we can just recolour the shimmers again (so like pink, snow, green, orange, rainbow, etc) or as it was stated earlier in the thread, we could make up a whole new breed. Plus if we go with shimmers, maybe after a while Marrionetta may change her mind about recolouring the tinsels in the future. Who knows? Same thing is happening with the frills and their artist.

 

This is just my opinion after reading the whole thread

[EscapistLore]

I think the coal shimmer is a good idea. An attendance prize, or something similar.. It wouldn't detract from the prizes, having lots of wrapping wings hasn't detracted from the alts value, for example. (Yes, I know, not the best example...) But if everyone can earn a coal shimmer (like everyone could get a wrapping wing that year), then they'll be loved and cherished, and the prizes will still have worth.

 

I agree prize winners should be able to get a coal too, I mean, they were there and played what we all did. Attendance prize, not consolation. Everyone should get one. If they want it, that is.

 

And no, you shouldn't have to take it. Goodness, you go to a raffle and I'm gonna make you take home an attendance prize? No! It should be an option. Go to this page to collect your attendance prize! Any that don't get collected.. well, don't get collected, end of story.

 

I don't think there will be an issue with not recoloring the Tinsels. While it would be lovely, I think we all respect the spriter's wishes.

 

And... I disagree with the arguments of, most RL raffles don't do this, or.. It's a raffle and reality is not everyone wins.. Just, as a note (and I say this with humor), dragons are totally real life and reality. ^.^ I think we come here to get away from the worries of reality and to relax (well, I do at least!). So I think anything that will improve general sentiment about the whole prize/raffle thing is a good idea, and I think this will.

[Syphoneira]

Just to mention, most people seem to be eager to get a participation coal dragon, while others would presumably have the option to not accept/gift/trade/Abandon as they pleased.

 

Personally, I don't think a few nay-sayers would likely prevent TJ from doing something he felt was appropriate and doable, which would make a more enjoyable experience for the great bulk of the players.

 

That said, I've no idea what he thinks about this Suggestion; just hoping, lol, as I always do, for MOAR PRETTY DRAGONZ!

 

 

One of the nice things about the Raffle is that it's not dependent on speed or skill, just an entry for everyone enjoying the site/activities at the time, which is something different and, being utterly randomized, gives everyone a fair - if incredibly, vanishingly tiny - chance at a miracle.

 

Some people - probably very young ones - do feel very disappointed at not winning a Prize, because they don't understand percentages, but for the rest of us, the whole thing's just fun.

 

Although it would certainly be a lot more fun if more CBs were awarded and a higher rate of low-gens were produced...

[bluesonic1]

Again, all of you point out the very thing that makes this idea rather futile; people still want the prize dragon(s). I'll copy and paste the OP's reasons for this idea here so you can get a better picture:

 

 

leaves most of the users only dreaming of getting a prize dragon, their only hope a long gen months, or even a year or more in the future. This seems to be especially true to new/casual players since they have very limited scroll space in comparison to veteran players who are already at their max spaces.

 

The ratio of breeding results from prize dragons seems not good (not enough prize dragons are being produced)

 

Creating lineages with prize dragons is hard because the lineage creator can't get the dragons s/he wants

 

Fear of (shiny) hatchies from multi clutches growing up through the AP and going to the wild instead of ending up on someone's scroll

 

Balance between low-gen and high-gen prize dragons for breeders both in obtaining and creating lineages

 

Not enough CB Prize dragons to make good lineages

 

With general Multiclutching offspring from carefully bred prize dragon lineages might go to the AP while to owner doesn't want this happening.

 

CB prize owners want to keep the feeling that they've got something exclusive.

 

Points 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 7 still remain unaddressed with the solution presented of giving Coal dragons to participants- essentially only the point in bold is addressed by this solution (the last one I left out as it's easily debatable for both sides of the argument and I don't feel presents as an arguable point for something like this; half the people will complain that this Coal idea deters from their prize whilst the other half say it doesn't, this whole thing needs to be looked at objectively). I think addressing stuff like breeding ratios would make more sense.

Edited November 17, 2014 by bluesonic1

[Fuzzbucket]

I still don't GET this thread. A raffle is a raffle. Just like a lottery. You buy a ticket, you hope it is a winning one. I bought a raffle ticket the other day and I didn't win that bottle of whisky (or indeed any of the other goodies) - and there were only about 400 tickets sold. No-one gave me a beer to make me feel better. That's how they work... We cannot all be winners. And a consolation prize isn't going to make us feel that we are.

 

I fear this all stems from the entitlement culture that is building all over the world - no-one gets to FAIL because it's so SAD, so we all end up feeling we are entitled to have everything anyone else has. Sports days at school are being almost phased out because the children who don't win will feel bad. All that kind of thing gets GROWNUPS (I cannot bring myself to say adults here) saying "But WHY didn't I get the job, I wanted it and I had the qualifications." BECAUSE the person who got it was BETTER than you.

 

The principle here is the same, even with no competition involved: I didn't get a prize because someone else's ticket was drawn and they got it. That doesn't mean I am entitled to something else to make me feel better; it means I didn't win. End of.

Edited November 17, 2014 by fuzzbucket

[KuroYukia]

I like the idea of coal dragons, but what about different kids of coal, like the snow angel dragons. Three kinds but its a surprise when they mature. That way it's still variety and people will still want to trade for them.

 

I also suggest burning multi accounts but that's always a suggestion cuts down on various reasons. I've seen multi accouters trading 10+ holiday IE Halloween for 2nd gen prizes then only want cb golds ( plural) and NDs then transfer them to a 3rd account that's their main

[purplehaze]

I also suggest burning multi accounts but that's always a suggestion cuts down on various reasons. I've seen multi accouters trading 10+ holiday IE Halloween for 2nd gen prizes then only want cb golds ( plural) and NDs then transfer them to a 3rd account that's their main

TJ does burn scrolls of multi accounts if he finds them. If you have suspicions about accounts like that, you should send the information to TJ.

[Fuzzbucket]

I like the idea of coal dragons, but what about different kids of coal, like the snow angel dragons. Three kinds but its a surprise when they mature. That way it's still variety and people will still want to trade for them.

 

I also suggest burning multi accounts but that's always a suggestion cuts down on various reasons. I've seen multi accouters trading 10+ holiday IE Halloween for 2nd gen prizes then only want cb golds ( plural) and NDs then transfer them to a 3rd account that's their main

If you know of a multi account, tell a mod, and action WILL be taken. Where do you get the idea that suggesting that will be shot down ?

 

But people will STILL want the ACTUAL PRIZE dragons, no matter what others are put out there. Any suggestion to "make up for not winning" will never EVER stop people saying "yes that's lovely but I STILL want a prize dragon". So why bother ? (not that I'd say no to a coal - as a rare in the cave - NOT as an everyone gets one thing - or a whatever - but still....)

[Red2111]

i thought i posted in this topic, but i guess not. overall, i dont support this.

 

 

1st - if, and i do say if, TJ were to implement a consolation prize for the raffle, Raffle winners should get it as well. just because lady luck was on there side doesn't mean they should be excluded form getting a CB dragon that the rest of us have for participating in the same event.

 

that said, i dont agree in a consolation prize for the raffle. its a raffle. my sentiments and thoughts on this are exactly the same as Fuzzbucket's. not to mention if TJ wanted everyone to win the Raffle Dragons, then he would have just given us all shimmers or tinsels or HM's.

 

 

2nd - re-attendance dragon for participating in the event. this is redundant as the limited released CB holiday Dragon IS the attendance dragon. you got a CB Despi because you attended the Halloween event. so we all already GET an attendance dragon for the Holiday events.

 

 

3rd - a coal version of either dragon (in the event Penk's owner agrees to a new color for the dragon) would do nothing to affect the value of the non-coal ones. again i side with fuzzbucket on this point. people will still want to win a CB of the non-coal variety. people will still want a ♂ & ♀ 2G of each color for scroll goals (or some, like myself, just a non-inbred nice lineaged line from each CB ancestor irregardless of lineage length)

 

all a coal version does is allow for breeding projects with the sprite that are, right now, hard to do.

 

 

4th - while having the coal colored sprite dropping in cave is nice (in that iirc the colors i've seen for this and the shading are very nice) i'm not to thrilled on there being another hard to obtain "greatly wanted" dragon added to the cave

 

Coppers are still a headache, and dont even get me started on Almadines and Spessi's ... not to mention the normal Silvers and Golds.

 

adding another sought after dragon (and a coal/pweter shimmer will be sought after as much as a green copper) will only lead to more gripes and complaints imo

 

 

 

the only way i could support a coal/pweter variety being added in cave is if it was as a Holiday Dragon release.

Edited November 17, 2014 by Red2111

[EscapistLore]

 

all a coal version does is allow for breeding projects with the sprite that are, right now, hard to do.

That's my main reason for wanting one. So I can make the lineages I have a very hard time doing now. Granted, it won't be the same as a silver shimmer... but it'd certainly be nice, as the shimmer is my favorite sprite, and making lineages with the shimmer sprite isnt really possible for me right now.

 

I still support this. I hear you guys, and I understand.. but this isn't real life, else we wouldn't be collecting dragons. We'd be collecting.. I dunno. Rocks or something. (Maybe chickens.) I come here to get away from real life and enjoy myself.. and having something so beautiful that I -can't- make the lineages I want with.. reminds me of real life. Which defeats the purpose of being here.

 

Question. Would having the coal shimmers introduced.. in any way, hurt anything or anyone? (Serious question here.) If it was introduced.. in any way, pick your favorite, but it was introduced. Would it hurt anyone or be a bad thing in any way?

 

Or would it be a plus for those of us who want them?

 

And if its both.. which outweighs which?

 

Edit- Red? I think those of us that want them for lineages would be fine with that... that is still doable and gives everyone the chance to make the lineages we want. (Note- on the holiday release, i mean)

Edited November 17, 2014 by EscapistLore

[Red2111]

Question. Would having the coal shimmers introduced.. in any way, hurt anything or anyone? (Serious question here.) If it was introduced.. in any way, pick your favorite, but it was introduced. Would it hurt anyone or be a bad thing in any way?

 

Or would it be a plus for those of us who want them?

 

And if its both.. which outweighs which?

depends on the release imo.

 

if its treated like a Holiday dragon (ie: CB only drops once in cave exclusively for a limited # of days, and 2G's can be bred and hoarded all year round) then you're fine.

 

 

if its treated like a normal rare release (ie: can catch a CB all year round) its a problem in the same way Coppers, Metals, Almadines and Spessi's are right now. in that if you miss the initial release (or even the first few hours of the initial release) your chances of getting one will be slim and they'll control the trading market

[EscapistLore]

depends on the release imo.

 

if its treated like a Holiday dragon (ie: CB only drops once in cave exclusively for a limited # of days, and 2G's can be bred and hoarded all year round) then you're fine.

 

 

if its treated like a normal rare release (ie: can catch a CB all year round) its a problem in the same way Coppers, Metals, Almadines and Spessi's are right now. in that if you miss the initial release (or even the first few hours of the initial release) your chances of getting one will be slim and they'll control the trading market

Then maybe as an alternative, T.J. might consider releasing two eggs this holiday (or one, just shimmer). Because something like that would make lineage makers happy... And then you are right, they wouldnt control the trade market (well, after a while, once people get settled with 2Gs).

 

I mean, this would address your concerns about it being a raffle (so no consolation prize, etc etc), and your concerns about making it drop in the cave year round... And would address mine, that hey, shimmer sprite to make lineages with.

 

Does anyone have concerns or wanna play devil's advocate with this idea?