ANSWERED:Release a Coal Version of the prize dragon?

[Sheriziya]

Well, this is one more suggestion of the base of the combo suggestion:

Release of a Coal version of the prize dragons (Mysfytt has already stated she'd be willing to recolor the Shimmers, Marionetta has stated she won't allow a recolor of the Tinsels.) as a consolation prize for all participants except prize winners since they already have the shiny prize dragon.

 

Here's some basic information on this suggestion:

* This suggestion was one of the base parts of the combo suggestion to improve the raffle. TJ wanted each base part to be discussed separately, hence why the "improve the raffle" topic was closed and all these new topics were opened. IMHO (And Naruhina's and ADP's too I think) all our base part suggestions are linked in the Combo and would work best if the complete combo suggestion was implemented instead of only one part of the total combo suggestion.

* The idea was to have a coal version of each new prize dragon that was introduced , if TJ would decide to do that. If you'd like to discuss that particular part of the suggestion, please go here. See the original combo suggestion to make the idea behind new prize dragons and their coalversions clearer.

* Mysfytt has already stated she'd recolor the Shimmers if TJ would like to implement this.

One question remains though: What about the HM winners? Do they still get a coal version? Or are they stuck with only getting their HM prize?

* Giving the coalversion as a prize was meant for all participants except the 1-2-3 prize winners of that particular raffle because they'd already get the shiny version of the prize. So, Tinsel winners wouldn't get the coal version in that particular raffle either. In raffles where you don't win a 1/2/3 prize, you will get the coal version as a consolation prize, HM winners too.

* As for the ratios, Mysfytt stated:

They are technically a sub-species so would heave their own ratios which would not effect the metallic shimmer or tinsel ratios

I haven't seen confirmation of TJ about this particular subject though. If anyone has, please send me the link and I'll include it here.

 

I'd like to add the reasons why the whole "improve the raffle" topic was started in the first place (and why this topic (and the others) has been started as result of closing the raffle thread):

The raffle

• leaves most of the users only dreaming of getting a prize dragon, their only hope a long gen months, or even a year or more in the future. This seems to be especially true to new/casual players since they have very limited scroll space in comparison to veteran players who are already at their max spaces.

• The ratio of breeding results from prize dragons seems not good (not enough prize dragons are being produced)

• Creating lineages with prize dragons is hard because the lineage creator can't get the dragons s/he wants

• Fear of (shiny) hatchies from multi clutches growing up through the AP and going to the wild instead of ending up on someone's scroll

• Balance between low-gen and high-gen prize dragons for breeders both in obtaining and creating lineages

• Not enough CB Prize dragons to make good lineages

• With general Multiclutching offspring from carefully bred prize dragon lineages might go to the AP while to owner doesn't want this happening.

• CB prize owners want to keep the feeling that they've got something exclusive.

Which is all culminating in a trademarket which has gone insane (or a trademarket where we have no seemingly fair balance anymore), if I may deduce that from the comments. I don't have any experience in the trademarket, so I can't really say anything about it. This leads to the a general feeling amongst a (big?) part of our community:

Although DC was original a fun collectables games, it's become a trading game where it's become hard (as in almost impossible?) to actually collect every dragon you want.

 

Other threads discussing the other parts of the combo suggestion are, per TJ's request:

* More "Holiday" and "Raffle" Times

* Improve Prize Breeding Ratios, For science!

* Fertility Rework

* Put hatchies first in AP, or sort AP by caught / bred date

* Release of Prize dragons in-cave, Based on a schedule

* Multi clutch for Prize dragons?

 

Another suggestion for this particular color of the dragon is to release the dragon between the holiday event (in other words the release of i.e. the Christmas dragons) and the next event/release (i.e. Valentine). Since these suggestions are both based on the recolor of the prize dragon, I thought it would be best to combine them in this topic.

 

I'm working with the Christmas/Valentine example since another thread discusses the possibilities of multiple raffles.

 

With the release of the Coal version as a consolation prize the consequences might be:

• The hurt feeling over the raffles will probably subside for a (greater?) part. After all, everyone wins in some way.
• Many people will also have the "Yay, new release"-feeling and, in a way, it would contribute to the monthly releases. In this case we'd have a release (albeit it limited to all raffle participants) between the Christmas release and the Valentine release. Perhaps even more people will join in the raffle event, cause after all, they'd get a new dragon whether or not they won the grand prize. (this would also mean not so much extra work for TJ instead of a completely new release to the cave, I think....)

With the release of the coalversion between the Christmas event and the Valentine event, we'd have a January release (as opposed to having no release like now)

 

On one hand only one recolored prizedragon might be a disappointment to people. On the other hand, we don't need to choose which recolored prize dragon we'd like to have, so that would make it easier for TJ to distribute the coal prize dragons.

 

So, what do you think?

Edited February 7, 2014 by Sheriziya

[angelicdragonpuppy]

I don't really think this would fix much but a coal colored Shimmerscale would be bloody awesome sooo. Yes please. ;w;

[cyradis4]

I'm all for a "participation prize", where everyone who got a raffle ticket, even if they won, would get a Coal dragon. The Prize winners would just get an extra. That way, the HM prize winners dno't have the tough choice between a consolation prize, and a normal HM.

 

I'd be ok with a consolation prize too, though.

 

Cheers!

C4.

[lilacamy931]

Certainly would not mind a coal version

[purplehaze]

I don't really think this would fix much but a coal colored Shimmerscale would be bloody awesome sooo. Yes please. ;w;

It wouldn't fix how insanely hard it is to get 2nd gen shinies, no, but I think it would do a lot to allay the disappointment at not winning anything again.

 

But what about subsequent years? Would the same consolation prize mean anything if you already had one of them on your scroll? Yes, there would be some who wouldn't already have them, either because they were new or because they didn't enter the raffle the year before, but for most people it would be less special the second time around. And the third time?

[Fiona]

While I'd love to be able to get my hands on a coal colored version of the Shimmers, I question the validity of "The hurt feeling over the raffles will probably subside for a (greater?) part. After all, everyone wins in some way."

 

"They" (the actual prize winners) still have something "you" (everyone else) don't have. 2nd gen shinies from the gold, silver and bronze colored varieties would still be in high demand. There would still be the "aw shucks, I didn't win" feeling for everyone who didn't win.

 

No matter how you slice it, winners of the raffle "win" and everyone else doesn't. While I think it's not a good thing that there is so much bitterness and jealousy over that, it's still part of human nature. Giving the "not winners" a coal colored version of the prize doesn't change any of that.

 

 

So, to be clear, I'm not opposed to this suggestion, but I don't think it will have the affect proponents are hoping for.

[Naruhina_94]

I would be ok, even if this NOT solve anything about CB prizes too rares. Fiona has already explained why!

 

It's a nice add that could works. I want to see them, too!

 

I have a question ^^

Those who have a CB ALT sweetling cannot have a pink one.

Why CB shimmer owners should have both versions?

Just ask ^^

Edited February 6, 2014 by Naruhina_94

[angelicdragonpuppy]

But what about subsequent years? Would the same consolation prize mean anything if you already had one of them on your scroll? Yes, there would be some who wouldn't already have them, either because they were new or because they didn't enter the raffle the year before, but for most people it would be less special the second time around. And the third time?

Hm... it wouldn't be as impressive, to be sure, but I still think it'd be neat. I mean, for starters you can work on getting a male and female. Then you can maybe work on getting two of each so you can at least do initial checkers on your own. So yah, as you say it wouldn't be as thrilling, but I still think it'd be fun. I'd love finding a coal shimmer in my stocking every year! X'D

 

I have a question ^^

Those who have a CB ALT sweetling cannot have a pink one.

Why CB shimmer owners should have both versions?

Just ask ^^

 

I think it's a matter of balance. It would be rather odd for the Tinsel owners to get one, but not the Shimmer owners, all because one spriter was up for a consolation prize and the other wasn't. I mean, I guess you could ax both groups from the equation, but eh. I don't see a big issue with letting them get both. Free lumps of beautiful coal all around!

[cyradis4]

I've participated in a lot of games / contests on another site, and getting a consolation prize always makes me feel good, especially since I've never actually won one of the big prizes. No I didn't win, but my efforts did get me this nice *something*. The general feeling I get is, "aw shucks, didn't win again, but lookit what I got anyway!"

 

On the other hand.... I always feel disappointed when the winners are announced, and I'm not one of them, when there isn't a consolation prize. Just.... disappointed. Nothing else, nothing more, no little something to say "I participated!" other than some fading memories.

 

But every time I look at that consolation prize I won for the other contests, I remember that contest, and the fun I had while I was participating in it. And I feel good all over again.

 

I think a consolation prize or participation prize would indeed go a long way to helping, though it wouldn't actually solve the 2nd gen problem.

 

Cheers!

C4.

Edited February 6, 2014 by cyradis4

[Naruhina_94]

Hm... it wouldn't be as impressive, to be sure, but I still think it'd be neat. I mean, for starters you can work on getting a male and female. Then you can maybe work on getting two of each so you can at least do initial checkers on your own. So yah, as you say it wouldn't be as thrilling, but I still think it'd be fun. I'd love finding a coal shimmer in my stocking every year! X'D

 

 

 

I think it's a matter of balance. It would be rather odd for the Tinsel owners to get one, but not the Shimmer owners, all because one spriter was up for a consolation prize and the other wasn't. I mean, I guess you could ax both groups from the equation, but eh. I don't see a big issue with letting them get both. Free lumps of beautiful coal all around!

Ok... I just don't see why they should be comforted If they are sad for their prize just give it away

I'm not one who gained and want to keep things as they are at all costs. It doesn't cost anything giving them a Coal Version, they can have it for sure. Everybody should show more spirit of understanding

Edited February 6, 2014 by Naruhina_94

[Xythus]

As much as I love black dragons, this idea plain and simply doesn't make sense in the long run. Whats the point of a RAFFLE, if EVERYONE wins? We might as well save the efforts of TJ and the artists and not do an event at all to gain an entry, because everyone at the end will get a dragon regardless of the outcome. Yeah, sure, some are bronze, silver, gold, but then its just not a prize dragon. Again, lets leave the raffle a raffle, not a handout.

[Sheriziya]

I can imagine the following:

Prize winners of the raffle 2014 (coming christmas) do not get the coal version as a raffle 2014 participant (no matter if they won the Tinsel or the Shimmer), but subsequent years they can receive the consolation prize just like everyone else. I think that would be the fairest if we're taking TJ's POV that we don't exclude anyone.

[Naruhina_94]

As much as I love black dragons, this idea plain and simply doesn't make sense in the long run. Whats the point of a RAFFLE, if EVERYONE wins? We might as well save the efforts of TJ and the artists and not do an event at all to gain an entry, because everyone at the end will get a dragon regardless of the outcome. Yeah, sure, some are bronze, silver, gold, but then its just not a prize dragon. Again, lets leave the raffle a raffle, not a handout.

There is an huge difference between CB black shimmers and gold, silver and bronze ones.

The Prize is the value that people give to them, that it will be ever major than a black one, because of the numers (few matallics VS many many many black ones ^^ )

 

I would see the coal version as a wonderful Christmas gift, too

[Millie_Azure]

As much as I love black dragons, this idea plain and simply doesn't make sense in the long run. Whats the point of a RAFFLE, if EVERYONE wins? We might as well save the efforts of TJ and the artists and not do an event at all to gain an entry, because everyone at the end will get a dragon regardless of the outcome. Yeah, sure, some are bronze, silver, gold, but then its just not a prize dragon. Again, lets leave the raffle a raffle, not a handout.

This. Plus, has anyone asked the spriters what they think? That should be done before suggestions like this are made.

[cyradis4]

This. Plus, has anyone asked the spriters what they think? That should be done before suggestions like this are made.

Both spriters were asked in the last thread, and their answers are in the first post.

 

Mysfytt (Shimmer spriter) is willing if TJ gives the go ahead. Marrionetta, the Tinsel spriter, is not willing.

 

Hence why people keep refering to the Shimmer as a consolation.

 

Cheers!

C4.

[Millie_Azure]

Mysfytt (Shimmer spriter) is willing if TJ gives the go ahead. Marrionetta, the Tinsel spriter, is not willing.

All or nothing. Marrionetta said no. Sounds pretty definite to me.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

As much as I love black dragons, this idea plain and simply doesn't make sense in the long run. Whats the point of a RAFFLE, if EVERYONE wins? We might as well save the efforts of TJ and the artists and not do an event at all to gain an entry, because everyone at the end will get a dragon regardless of the outcome. Yeah, sure, some are bronze, silver, gold, but then its just not a prize dragon. Again, lets leave the raffle a raffle, not a handout.

A dragon that's offspring can routinely be traded for any dragon in the game is a Prize.

A dragon that everyone gets but is really pretty is a trinket.

Big difference.

 

 

[OMGitsKairi]

I liked this idea the first time I saw it mentioned, and I still think it would be a cool

addition to the raffle/prize situation, if we have to have it at all. So I'm gonna go

ahead and say +1 support for this.

[cyradis4]

All or nothing. Marrionetta said no. Sounds pretty definite to me.

Why on earth would it be all or nothing? I've found very little in life that is all or nothing. Most things are various in-betweens. And the position of both artists was known for quite a while, and TJ has not yet said anything about it. Until TJ says its "all or nothing", then I think its fair to assume that he'll consider the in-between.

 

Cheers!

C4.

Edited February 6, 2014 by cyradis4

[Sheriziya]

Why should it be all or nothing? Suppose, for a moment, Marrionetta would have approved a recolor, just for argument's sake, than we'd have another question at our hands:

Do we get two consolation prizes: Tinsel AND Shimmer? Or do we have to decide which to receive, which would mean a wagonload (yes, I do realise that's NOT the expression ) of work for TJ. Or do we let TJ make a decision with each raffle (assuming our other parts of the combo suggestion are not implemented) which of the two will be a consolation prize with the result not all participants will be happy with the consolation prize because they wanted the other dragon.

 

Perhaps Marrionetta's decision made the suggestion "easier" to accept for TJ because it wouldn't involve that much work than when we'd have two possible consolation prizes. Just a thought.....

Edited February 6, 2014 by Sheriziya

[Qualeo]

Full support of this idea. Black shimmers would be excellent <3 As long as winners can get the "consolation" prize too. Don't you think its unfair to not let winners be able to get it as well? Yeah we won, but ya know, the consolation prize is for everybody. The CB shiny prize dragons should just be an added bonus for winners. As long as everyobdy has access to these, I totally support it. A Back shimer sounds amazing

[dragongrrl]

If I got a Coal Shimmer every year, I wouldn't mind. It would allow me to build lineages over time. And, IMO, it would definitely help with the between-Xmas-and-Val-release doldrums.

 

Yes, please!

[Odeen]

Maybe I'm just a spoilsport but I see no reason to release coal varieties of the prize dragons to everyone who didn't win something. It isn't going to change anything about the difficulty of obtaining offspring of prize dragons and the everybody-wins aspect of the suggestion rubs me wrong.

[Xythus]

There is an huge difference between CB black shimmers and gold, silver and bronze ones.

The Prize is the value that people give to them, that it will be ever major than a black one, because of the numers (few matallics VS many many many black ones ^^ )

 

I would see the coal version as a wonderful Christmas gift, too

Oh? You seem extremely sure of yourself, despite this metaphoric coal dragon is currently just an idea.

 

I'm going to quote our lovely Amazon_Warrior (whole post can be seen here):

 

It is often impossible to predict what might happen after an idea has been thrown into the churning maw of the userbase - you can make educated guesses and put certain prevention mechanisms in place, of course, but you can never know for certain until you've tried. All you can do is observe and make sure you have some metaphorical fire retardant and mops and buckets on hand for clean-up if necessary.

 

So MY prediction/opinion if these coal things were to be implemented:

~ Since a prize is a prize regardless of color or a consolation one, people will probably just settle with trading within themselves instead of overpaying/trying harder to get the "genuine" ones

~ The CB owners complain that because of Coal prizes, theirs isn't worth much anymore, the trade market crashed, etc.

~ Traders will complain that their coal dragons are no longer worth anything after a while, they breed like rabbits because they're too common, the trade market crashed, insert other whine about trading here, etc.

~ Old CB Prize owners will complain about how prizes are just not special anymore

 

I can't think of more at the moment, but tl;dr - It creates more problems than ironing out the ones we have now.

 

PS: Even in a roleplay scenario, your idea doesn't make sense:

 

I would see the coal version as a wonderful Christmas gift, too

 

Coal is given to someone who has been undeserving of something.

[Millie_Azure]

I've participated in a lot of games / contests on another site, and getting a consolation prize always makes me feel good, especially since I've never actually won one of the big prizes. No I didn't win, but my efforts did get me this nice *something*. The general feeling I get is, "aw shucks, didn't win again, but lookit what I got anyway!"

We do get something just for participating. There's a little badge on our scroll that states we were there, we did it, we had fun. Why do we need a dragon, too? In all games, there's a winner and a loser. How fun would, say, watching the Super Bowl be if, at the end of it, everyone went, "Aw shucks, you just got killed, but have a ring and a shiny trophy anyway!" A badge is enough. Save the big prizes for people that actually win them.