ANSWERED:Release a Coal Version of the prize dragon?

[KageSora]

I have to agree with Cyradis that the 1/2/3 and HM winners should get their prize or HM along WITH the participation coal shimmer, while the participants that didn't win anything just get the coal shimmer, otherwise, you're sort of penalizing the prize winners and they did participate, so they should get the participation dragon along with what they win. It sounds more than fair to me and I love the idea of a participation dragon for bothering to join in and do your best. I think it should only be given to those who do reach the highest level of winning a raffle ticket though, not just to anyone who clicks on the event and then doesn't bother to do much with it.

 

Not to mention - how beautiful would the coals look paired with the silvers in particular, but with bronzes and golds as well.

 

Would the coal shimmer be a shiny? That would really be awesome.

How is it a penalization to make them wait a year to get it, when they get something superior as it is?

 

Why do you need a PARTICIPATION prize? While I think both the idea of a participation prize and a consolation prize are ridiculous (you got to participate in the event and you get to keep whatever we made--THAT'S your participation prize), I'd rather a consolation prize than a participation prize.

 

Why should people who win get TWO dragons? If it's "not fair" to the people who lost that they get nothing, how is it any more fair that the people who win (HM included) get TWO dragons? That's just as unfair, IMO.

 

(Not that I think we should even have something ridiculous like this in the first place--if you can't handle not winning, then don't participate.)

[angelicdragonpuppy]

(Not that I think we should even have something ridiculous like this in the first place--if you can't handle not winning, then don't participate.)

Why does it have to be associated with people not being able to handle losing? Why can't it just be a fun thing that gives everyone a bit more to do on raffle announcement day than slobber over the winners? Why can't it just be a lovely dragon to add to our collections?

 

I get that it's hardly necessary to add this but seeing people vehemently opposed to it for reasons I'm not even sure exist is just like ehhh? Not everyone who would enjoy this is a 'sore loser baby' or whatever some people seem to think they are...

Edited February 26, 2014 by angelicdragonpuppy

[MedievalMystic]

I'd like to gently posit once again that I'm strongly opposed to this suggestion.

 

Not winning a free raffle does not leave you with anything less than you entered into it with. Nobody earned their prize dragons, they simply got lucky within the same odds and infrastructure everyone else did, and therefore nobody needs to 'feel bad they didn't win.' You've lost literally nothing. You don't need to be coddled. You don't need consolation prizes. I promise you will be ok.

 

Winning should be viewed a fun cherry-on-top sort of ordeal, not as the only acceptable outcome when the odds are most certainly not ever in your favor.

 

 

(Not that I think we should even have something ridiculous like this in the first place--if you can't handle not winning, then don't participate.)

 

 

Where's the 'Like' button when you need it?

Edited February 26, 2014 by MedievalMystic

[Syphoneira]

Why does it have to be associated with people not being able to handle losing? Why can't it just be a fun thing that gives everyone a bit more to do on raffle announcement day than slobber over the winners? Why can't it just be a lovely dragon to add to our collections?

 

I get that it's hardly necessary to add this but seeing people vehemently opposed to it for reasons I'm not even sure exist is just like ehhh? Not everyone who would enjoy this is a 'sore loser baby' or whatever some people seem to think they are...

 

 

And yet again, angelicdragonpuppy speaks for me.

 

*bow and doffs imaginary hat*

 

Would add that it's pretty rare to see DC people objecting to the notion of a pretty new dragon on their scrolls, lol.

 

*Pinches self*

 

No, don't think I'm dreaming this, and yet I must be...

[AnanoKimi]

first place--if you can't handle not winning, then don't participate.)

Basically. If anything we should be trying to try and improve things like how often tinsels/shimmers breed a prize, multi clutching, and time period between when a prize dragon is released and/or retired.

 

Personally, if I hadn't won I wouldn't be complaining of "I deserve something too, and its not fair if I didn't get something."

 

On top of that I'm trying to suggest this:

 

Remove placement prizes, increase the number of HMs by quite a bit, no new prize breeds so that anything and everything new is released to the cave only, and when people win HM status they can pick from cave stuff with restrictions or the only two previous prize breeds in existence ever in DC. Tinsels and Shimmers will eventually become common, people will quit complaining, and no one gets anything specail ever again.

 

This is the only real answer if we want to at least let current prize winners feel like their current prizes wont be completely devalued. At least from what I see. With a larger HM pool so many people aching for a prize dragon can get one, but there will be no new prizes added ever to a contest. Anything new will be released straight to the cave only, Tinsels and Shimmers will be part of the HM prize options but not released on the cave because please at least give us prize winners that.

 

So all in all, no. No more new prize dragons ever, just regular in cave releses, tinsels/shimmers as HM prizes, and remove 1st-rd place and leave only a huge HM pool.

 

really this way people can quit feeling like they cant have in, and just not give anyone anything nice ever and quit all this stuff.

[BlitzDrake]

If we have coal shimmers for a participation prize, at least there will be far more of those in circulation for CB to 2nd gens and up. *shrugs*

[LadyFoxfire]

How is it a penalization to make them wait a year to get it, when they get something superior as it is?

 

Why do you need a PARTICIPATION prize? While I think both the idea of a participation prize and a consolation prize are ridiculous (you got to participate in the event and you get to keep whatever we made--THAT'S your participation prize), I'd rather a consolation prize than a participation prize.

 

Why should people who win get TWO dragons? If it's "not fair" to the people who lost that they get nothing, how is it any more fair that the people who win (HM included) get TWO dragons? That's just as unfair, IMO.

 

(Not that I think we should even have something ridiculous like this in the first place--if you can't handle not winning, then don't participate.)

The participation prize IS the consolation prize. Sorry for the confusion. And I don't have a problem with losing raffles. I don't consider it a loss. I simply didn't win and I'm perfectly happy. I'm just agreeing with the idea of a new shiny for those who bother to participate, do their best, and don't manage to win the raffle. It's not a sin and it would definitely get more people involved in the events.

 

As for why it would not be fair to the prize winners to not give them one, I can see them whining and complaining over the fact that they won "the same old prize again" when they might have actually wanted the new consolation prize. I've already seen a raffle winner talk about how she wasn't all that enthused when she found out her prize was "just another tinsel".

[KageSora]

By it's name a "consolation" prize is to console those who lost. Therefore it defeats the purpose of it being a "consolation prize" if the winners get it, too.

 

Honestly, if something like this were to be added, I'd rather see winners just be allowed to decline their prize in favor of the consolation prize instead of getting their prize AND a consolation prize.

 

But, as always, I think it's ridiculous to need to give out a prize just for participating.

[LadyFoxfire]

By it's name a "consolation" prize is to console those who lost. Therefore it defeats the purpose of it being a "consolation prize" if the winners get it, too.

 

Honestly, if something like this were to be added, I'd rather see winners just be allowed to decline their prize in favor of the consolation prize instead of getting their prize AND a consolation prize.

 

But, as always, I think it's ridiculous to need to give out a prize just for participating.

I agree completely. The winners should definitely get to choose whether they get the prize won or the consolation.

 

I'm not saying we need a consolation prize at all, just that I'm not completely opposed to it should it come about. And if it doesn't... no problem with me, but I would never pass up the chance to have a new dragon. It's just the fact that everyone seems to want a January release and I think the consolation prize dragon would be good for that purpose.

[KageSora]

I just hate the idea of a "consolation" dragon at all. You don't get a trophy just for showing up and participating.

 

By it's very nature the raffle is "unfair" in that somebody is always going to walk away with something of greater value than most other people. IT's simply the nature of any kind of contest.

 

The raffle is as fair as anything that awards prizes can be--everybody has an equal chance to win each prize per entry. Arguments could be made about making it easier for everybody to get the max number of entries, but I think that's another topic.

 

But if there has to be some kind of a consolation prize, then winners (HM included) should NOT get it by default, but should be allowed to forfeit their actual prize in favor of the consolation prize. They should never be awarded both.

[Slaskia]

Hm...what if...if there are new prize breeds in the future, the gold/silver/bronze prize is treated like a spriter's alt and a non-metal colored version was released at the same time they winners get theirs?

 

That way, everyone has a chance at a CB (from the cave release version), the winners have something special, but won't have the strangle hold on the market like the current ones do.

 

I say 'if there are new ones', as I'm one of those opposed adding more CB exclusives like these (heck, I was one of those that was very much opposed to the existence of prize dragons at all). But, if there will be more prize breeds, this is how I would rather it be done.

 

Of course, the tinsels and shimmers would have to remain as they are, as I seriously doubt ANYONE would agree to offspring suddenly changing retroactively (would see the forums blowing up worse than when the golds were 'updated').

 

Just a suggestion...don't bite me too hard for it....

So...no comments on my suggestion?

[AnanoKimi]

I just hate the idea of a "consolation" dragon at all. You don't get a trophy just for showing up and participating.

 

By it's very nature the raffle is "unfair" in that somebody is always going to walk away with something of greater value than most other people. IT's simply the nature of any kind of contest.

 

The raffle is as fair as anything that awards prizes can be--everybody has an equal chance to win each prize per entry. Arguments could be made about making it easier for everybody to get the max number of entries, but I think that's another topic.

 

But if there has to be some kind of a consolation prize, then winners (HM included) should NOT get it by default, but should be allowed to forfeit their actual prize in favor of the consolation prize. They should never be awarded both.

I would feel terrible and happy if I got both but over all I would feel greedy if I had won both my tinsel and a consolation. I agree with the ability to forfeit your prize if you want a coal version, but over all this idea is unnecessary. If you cant be a good sport then that's on you, you shouldn't get a prize for being a spoil sport because you didn't win.

 

There is a difference between the lineage users who get frustrated because they have a hard time getting what they need/want for a lineage to what people who didn't win want. Lineage makers are content with second gens because even if they do not own the CB pair they can still create something beautiful from a second gen. They aren't angry at not having won and saying they deserve some sort of consolation.

 

All in all I do not support a consolation prize but if it happens, prize winners should either pick their prize or pick the coal color dragon.

[Tawanda001]

I just hate the idea of a "consolation" dragon at all. You don't get a trophy just for showing up and participating.

 

Eh, a lot of times you do. Lots of events and things give you a little something just for taking time out of your day to show up for their contest or event, even if it's something as silly as a pen or a balloon.

Actually we do already get a DC trophy for participating in events, but I think people would be more enthused about getting an 'interactive' dragon for showing up and participating, rather than the ribbon we got this year, or the pie badge, etc. etc. Same concept really, just more developed (and tons more fun) As such it should be available to everyone that qualifies to enter the raffle.

 

 

(On another note, I would really like to see derogatory words like 'whine, moan, and cry' not tossed about so freely simply because people do not understand or do not agree with another point of view.)

[angelicdragonpuppy]

So...no comments on my suggestion?

While non-shiny versions would be fun (like, well, the suggested black one), they would not in themselves be a fix to low gen prize scarcity. A pretty brown Shimmer isn't going to make me suddenly disinterested in the beautiful Silver Shimmers.

[AnanoKimi]

@Tawanda001 :

 

Only because parents and, well, spoil sports started forcing the hand of event makers because "Its traumatizing for my child if the other team wins and he walks off empty handed" Or "He put in so many tickets, and didn't win, its not fair and he should get something too."

 

Near lawsuits and with so many people doing it what choice did event makers have? of course the same cannot be done here but its only to show that it wasn't necessary till people became unable to take a loss.

 

That is basically what is happening here and why I feel this isn't necessary. If you cannot take a loss then that is your thing. If I hadn't won I wouldn't be complaining about it because there is always later on in the year or next year. Really its a matter of just learning to be graceful in defeat or in a loss of chance or wits. There will always be next time unless you rage quit.

Edited February 27, 2014 by AnanoKimi

[LadyFoxfire]

I feel different ways about it. I'm not opposed to the raffle staying exactly as is, but I'm not opposed to consolation prizes either. Heck, I'm not even opposed to the idea of doing away with the raffle altogether (just as long as there's still some way to get the prize dragons, even if they're made extremely rare). The one thing I'd hate more than anything is to see any dragon go completely extinct - by that I mean CBs of any type. It saddens me that even the penks and frills were discontinued. I understand the spriters' wishes, but it doesn't make me any less sad for it.

[Slaskia]

While non-shiny versions would be fun (like, well, the suggested black one), they would not in themselves be a fix to low gen prize scarcity. A pretty brown Shimmer isn't going to make me suddenly disinterested in the beautiful Silver Shimmers.

I think you missed something in my suggestion: the 'winner' versions would only produce the 'non-winner' coloration, like with spriter alts.

Edited February 27, 2014 by Slaskia

[AnanoKimi]

I feel different ways about it. I'm not opposed to the raffle staying exactly as is, but I'm not opposed to consolation prizes either. Heck, I'm not even opposed to the idea of doing away with the raffle altogether (just as long as there's still some way to get the prize dragons, even if they're made extremely rare). The one thing I'd hate more than anything is to see any dragon go completely extinct - by that I mean CBs of any type. It saddens me that even the penks and frills were discontinued. I understand the spriters' wishes, but it doesn't make me any less sad for it.

I am posting way too often but I had a plan to keep raffles with only HM prizes with no new prize breeds just new cave releases. HM winners have the option of getting tinsels/shimmers and anything in the cave with its usual restrictions. You know what I mean?

[angelicdragonpuppy]

@Slaskia: Oh, I thought you were talking not just about new prizes, but also about current Prizes. That'd be nice, but it still doesn't solve the issues surrounding the current Prizes.

 

That is basically what is happening here and why I feel this isn't necessary. If you cannot take a loss then that is your thing. If I hadn't won I wouldn't be complaining about it because there is always later on in the year or next year. Really its a matter of just learning to be graceful in defeat or in a loss of chance or wits. There will always be next time unless you rage quit.

 

And again, it comes back to "people must want this because sore losers." I just think it would be nice because 1) yay new pretty black dragon and 2) gives people something else to be entertained with during that week than just fighting to get on prize lists. It's not all "wah wah I want it because I lost." There are other reasons involved. Yes, it's not necessary, but what does adding a pretty black shimmer to the game hurt? Nothing, if anything, whereas some people would enjoy it.

[AnanoKimi]

Touche my friend. Not necessary but not entirely against it. I just feel like it might be over doing it to some extent though. I don't know. Though I wouldn't have minded something nice for even being part of it, it feels like way too much.

 

Thats just me though.

[Tawanda001]

Near lawsuits and with so many people doing it what choice did event makers have?

Maybe a part of it is that smart organizers realize that that a little something to make sure participants leave more or less pleased with the experience ensures that they return for the next event. Maybe they didn't win a big prize, but they left with something and had a good time.

Of course it's not a necessity, but that little bit of goodwill probably goes a long way.

DC is a business so I don't see that something that makes more people happier and more likely to keep returning, is a bad thing.

[AnanoKimi]

Well I mean if you go to an event only for the prize and leave pissed you didn't get it then really you shouldn't go. If people are not content with having been a part of something fun, even if they didn't win then that's kinda on them. I joined the snow fort thing because it looked fun and it delivered. I enjoy it thoroughly, that I won added to it but I would have been just as content having been part of it.

 

Again, yeah it would have been nice to get something extra out of it but really it wasn't necessary. You join an event or contest for the fun of it, for meeting new people, and friendly competition. If you take it so serious that winning is the only thing that matters and loosing ruins the fun of it then those kind of things are not for you.

 

Not pointing at you it just feels easier to say 'you'. Hope it doesn't seem personal x.x if you would like me to change it to seem less like I'm trying to stab at you let me know >.<

[Syphoneira]

Eh, a lot of times you do. Lots of events and things give you a little something just for taking time out of your day to show up for their contest or event, even if it's something as silly as a pen or a balloon.

Actually we do already get a DC trophy for participating in events, but I think people would be more enthused about getting an 'interactive' dragon for showing up and participating, rather than the ribbon we got this year, or the pie badge, etc. etc. Same concept really, just more developed (and tons more fun) As such it should be available to everyone that qualifies to enter the raffle.

 

 

(On another note, I would really like to see derogatory words like 'whine, moan, and cry' not tossed about so freely simply because people do not understand or do not agree with another point of view.)

 

 

 

Exactly!

 

If you go to watch a larger horse show, for example, you may get a little flag or some such thing, something quite minor, but a souvenir of the event.

 

The factor is typically the cost, which I'd suspect isn't a major issue in the case of DC.

 

 

 

Well, perhaps some people don't realize what deadly insults such terms are, or the fact that they're using the language of the kindergarten bully, but some also don't actually seem to be reading the comments and coming up with something entirely different to begin with! ROFLMAO

 

How does anyone see people in this discussion 'whining' over not winning themselves, btw?

 

Can someone show me, via quotes and page numbers, where I've missed them?

 

 

[Jazeki]

@Tawanda001 :

 

Only because parents and, well, spoil sports started forcing the hand of event makers because "Its traumatizing for my child if the other team wins and he walks off empty handed" Or "He put in so many tickets, and didn't win, its not fair and he should get something too."

 

Near lawsuits and with so many people doing it what choice did event makers have? of course the same cannot be done here but its only to show that it wasn't necessary till people became unable to take a loss.

 

That is basically what is happening here and why I feel this isn't necessary. If you cannot take a loss then that is your thing. If I hadn't won I wouldn't be complaining about it because there is always later on in the year or next year. Really its a matter of just learning to be graceful in defeat or in a loss of chance or wits. There will always be next time unless you rage quit.

I've worked with kids and adults coordinating consolation and participation prizes before and none of it was ever forced because the parents wanted it or someone was a sore loser. It was just an added something special to keep participants coming back or make the kids even happier than they already were.

 

Also, law suits that result in changes of law really can't compare to a getting a new consolation/participation shiny dragon. Those regard individuals with influence, money, or political/social clout (or in some cases without a lick of common sense so safety laws and restrictions need to be in place as with the woman who burned herself on hot coffee and sued because it didn't have a "Caution Hot" warning). If this were a suggestion for a special dragon obtained through donations to the site, I could understand this analogy.

 

Either way, assumptions about real life events or lumping people into the sore loser category does nothing to pacify either side of the spectrum regarding the release of a coal dragon.

 

I am in support of both of your suggestions, but am a bit put off by the impression that people want this dragon because they are sore losers that complain and are unable to handle not winning a raffle. People do complain yes, but the point of this suggestion is for everyone to benefit from having a new dragon--not just aimed at making people stop complaining.

[AnanoKimi]

Yeah thats why i said that the same wasnt happening here on DC. Oh that lawsuit mademe hurt my forehead at how... just... that woman... I can't comprehend her logic...

 

Anyway, Well to some extent it does. That's why in a few more posts down I gave the touche to I believe angelicdragonpuppy? It might not entirely be for the sore losers as I've mentioned but to some extent it is. Though I agree new recolor would be cute but I don't think its necessary because I like spreading the shiny love better, on top of like i said it feels like a bit much but all in all its not a bad last resort.