ANSWERED:Release a Coal Version of the prize dragon?

[bluesonic1]

I'm reposting a post I did earlier that people seemed to conveniently skip over:

 

Again, all of you point out the very thing that makes this idea rather futile; people still want the prize dragon(s). I'll copy and paste the OP's reasons for this idea here so you can get a better picture:

 

leaves most of the users only dreaming of getting a prize dragon, their only hope a long gen months, or even a year or more in the future. This seems to be especially true to new/casual players since they have very limited scroll space in comparison to veteran players who are already at their max spaces.

The ratio of breeding results from prize dragons seems not good (not enough prize dragons are being produced)

Creating lineages with prize dragons is hard because the lineage creator can't get the dragons s/he wants

Fear of (shiny) hatchies from multi clutches growing up through the AP and going to the wild instead of ending up on someone's scroll

Balance between low-gen and high-gen prize dragons for breeders both in obtaining and creating lineages

Not enough CB Prize dragons to make good lineages

With general Multiclutching offspring from carefully bred prize dragon lineages might go to the AP while to owner doesn't want this happening.

CB prize owners want to keep the feeling that they've got something exclusive.

 

Points 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 7 still remain unaddressed with the solution presented of giving Coal dragons to participants- essentially only the point in bold is addressed by this solution (the last one I left out as it's easily debatable for both sides of the argument and I don't feel presents as an arguable point for something like this; half the people will complain that this Coal idea deters from their prize whilst the other half say it doesn't, this whole thing needs to be looked at objectively). I think addressing stuff like breeding ratios would make more sense.

 

Adding to that, I honestly fail to see what the fuss about a "lack of prize dragons" is about. I see dozens of them going on the Departure thread alone- I've been madly hunting down Reds to collect and instead have gotten 3 prize dragons, without even trying. Most of you whining are doing so because you want X-type of lineage, and yeah naturally it's more difficult, but isn't that why you're doing it?? For the challenge?? This entire game would be pretty boring (this goes for all games really) if it didn't have a challenge. And if you're that desperate to get a prize dragon, it's not difficult to do as I've pointed out. Either suck it up and work for the X-lineage or 2G prize dragon or drop your standards and settle for less. I can guarantee you that that 2G dragon is going to be a lot more sour if it gets handed to you on a silver platter.

 

BEFORE anyone jumps at me saying "No, you're wrong and breeding ratios are bad", I point you to the suggestion thread to improve said ratios where TJ himself comments:

The numbers suggest otherwise. There have been more prize dragons bred in the past year (of both types, counted separately) than many breeds of commons.

 

***

 

I completely do NOT support Coal prizes. At all. The raffle is to distribute something special to a select few very lucky people. It's not to give everyone something shiny. To me it feels very immature to want to have a consolation prize, to be honest... Shimmers and Tinsels were made to be extremely special and rare and hard to get. Releasing another, widely-available version of them just completely defeats the purpose. Yes, you can say it doesn't make the prizes less special, but to me it does.

I second this comment entirely, as an addition to things I've already said.

Edited November 21, 2014 by bluesonic1

[Ponie]

I am in favor of this mostly because I love the current prize sprites and would love to see more lineage options. Plus, I'd shimmers would look awesome in black and work very, very well with a huge number of pre-existing sprites. (Tinsels of course are out of the question as the creator is against it. But PB shimmers could kind of be a thing!) At the same time, though, I can live without and it's not worth getting the community worked up over.

 

I mostly wanted to comment on one objection people keep raising that's been bugging me. Real life raffles give out consolation prizes all the time! Sure, not the actual lottery, but small charity raffles frequently distribute a t-shirt or key chain or some other little trinket. Heck, my school did one every year and there was always a participation "prize". Maybe the DC raffle is closer to the lottery as it is a larger, frequently more anonymous community, but "everyone's not a winner in real life" doesn't strike me as a good reason to automatically shoot this down. Acknowledging and rewarding all the participants need not diminish the victory of the actual winners in any way. Sure, there are other reasons it may not be the best idea, but I don't love this one. (Honestly, I always hate this kind of reasoning so it's mostly a personal pet peeve. Sure, not everyone can have everything, but how does it hurt you if a fun, free event that requires little effort on your part makes a small gesture to please the masses?)

 

I doubt a coal shimmer is ever going to exist, as lovely as it would be, as it was never on TJ's agenda and the feedback on this thread has been mixed, but if it is, the raffle winners should definitely also get one. I think the easiest way to distribute the egg would be via a notice bar everyone had access to for a limited period of time, which would distribute the egg but only if they had the space. People who don't want one could just ignore it, although I would advocate in favor of the shimmer being limited to people who participated in the holiday event (and maybe only those who completed every stage). I don't see why it shouldn't be tied to the raffle, as the prize dragons have always been associated with that event and as I said, I don't understand the vitriolic hate for consolation prizes. Seems like the most straightforward way of getting them out there.

[Nahala]

I like the idea of a consolation prize for the raffle. Making them into another kind of trophy is not a good idea I think. But getting a little something for participating in the Raffle. Yes, that would be nice. And I'd love to have a coal Shimmer.

 

The idea of the notice bar is best I think. Everyone gets to choose if they want that coal shimmer or if they prefer to be without.

[bluesonic1]

I mostly wanted to comment on one objection people keep raising that's been bugging me. Real life raffles give out consolation prizes all the time! Sure, not the actual lottery, but small charity raffles frequently distribute a t-shirt or key chain or some other little trinket. Heck, my school did one every year and there was always a participation "prize". Maybe the DC raffle is closer to the lottery as it is a larger, frequently more anonymous community, but "everyone's not a winner in real life" doesn't strike me as a good reason to automatically shoot this down. Acknowledging and rewarding all the participants need not diminish the victory of the actual winners in any way. Sure, there are other reasons it may not be the best idea, but I don't love this one. (Honestly, I always hate this kind of reasoning so it's mostly a personal pet peeve. Sure, not everyone can have everything, but how does it hurt you if a fun, free event that requires little effort on your part makes a small gesture to please the masses?)

A brand new dragon is a bit much for a consolation prize. For participation, I would expect a medal of sorts on your profile, like a trophy, but not an entire new dragon...

 

Also, a lot of people I've noticed are jumping on this bandwagon simply because they want to see more new cool dragons in the cave- which isn't exactly what this topic was for. It was meant to address raffle issues and prize dragon breeding/rarity issues, not promote new dragons in general.

[Fuzzbucket]

A brand new dragon is a bit much for a consolation prize. For participation, I would expect a medal of sorts on your profile, like a trophy, but not an entire new dragon...

 

Also, a lot of people I've noticed are jumping on this bandwagon simply because they want to see more new cool dragons in the cave- which isn't exactly what this topic was for. It was meant to address raffle issues and prize dragon breeding/rarity issues, not promote new dragons in general.

We already GET a "medal" in the badge we get for doing the activity (snow forts last year.)

[Red2111]

since Mysfytt is against the idea of the Coal Shimmer being used as a trophy goal for collecting x-amount of dragons then i'm not going to argue for it even though i brought it up and i've edited in her quote on it to my original post in hopes that no one pushes for it as well later on *nods*

 

We already GET a "medal" in the badge we get for doing the activity (snow forts last year.)

^ this

 

 

to the specific points the OP stated. i dont see a coal participation prize dragon fixing any of this.

 

first off, if a Coal were to be introduced, i dont see it being treated the same as the current prize lines, especially if it was as a consolation prize that everyone was able to get. prize dragons are treated this way because they're exclusive, not just because their pretty.

 

 

The raffle

 

    leaves most of the users only dreaming of getting a prize dragon, their only hope a long gen months, or even a year or more in the future. This seems to be especially true to new/casual players since they have very limited scroll space in comparison to veteran players who are already at their max spaces.

    The ratio of breeding results from prize dragons seems not good (not enough prize dragons are being produced)

    Creating lineages with prize dragons is hard because the lineage creator can't get the dragons s/he wants

    Fear of (shiny) hatchies from multi clutches growing up through the AP and going to the wild instead of ending up on someone's scroll

    Balance between low-gen and high-gen prize dragons for breeders both in obtaining and creating lineages

    Not enough CB Prize dragons to make good lineages

    With general Multiclutching offspring from carefully bred prize dragon lineages might go to the AP while to owner doesn't want this happening.

    CB prize owners want to keep the feeling that they've got something exclusive.

 

 

Which is all culminating in a trademarket which has gone insane (or a trademarket where we have no seemingly fair balance anymore), if I may deduce that from the comments. I don't have any experience in the trademarket, so I can't really say anything about it. This leads to the a general feeling amongst a (big?) part of our community:

Although DC was original a fun collectables games, it's become a trading game where it's become hard (as in almost impossible?) to actually collect every dragon you want.

 

1. all new users or people with no prize lines or long or messy lines have to do is PM users with them. majority of the people i know and have traded (including myself) with are willing to trade the bulk of their lines either for free or a few hatchies they need (and not always new releases or holidays) not saying you'll get a 2G or 3G for this sort of trade, but stating that "people dream of getting prize lines and cant" is a lie imo and in my experience. and a Coal Prize dragon on their scrolls wont solve this, because its not shiny.

 

2. as i've stated in other topics, these are ultra rare dragons and by their nature shouldn't breed like rabbits. it should be harder to get a prize egg than it is to get a Metal egg. and prize lines seem to be breeding fine to me. i've seen a prize drought (where no prize lines AT ALL produced even a KIN for months on end) trust me, the prize pool is breeding fine.

 

3. part of the draw for lineages is the challenge of creating the lineage and the feeling of joy when you create it. if you're setting out to create a lineage with Prize dragons or Holiday Dragons or Spriter Alts or Thuweds in the OP then you have to be realistic about your goals and what you can do because they supply is limited (and you KNOW this going into it). just because a non-inbred 2 breed prize checker looks fantastic and would be hell-a-cool to see at 8th gen, doesn't make that a that lineage realistic to achieve. if you're aiming to make that sort of lineage then you're not being realistic in what you can accomplish and you're setting YOURSELF up for failure.

 

4. i've been against multi-clutches from prizes from the get go. i hate the fact that when my holiday's multi-clutch, i dont get control of all the eggs and where they end up. though it would be cool to catch a 2G prize in the cave, as a breeder i would want to know any 2G from a CB prize line i'm producing is going to a loving home and that the person getting it wont abuse it.

 

5. Coal would do nothing to affect this inbalance. the rarer the dragon and the shorter the lineage, the less likely you are to get a shiny from it. its just simple DC breeding physics. there will always be a cut off point of attainability when it comes to prizes. when i first started collecting prize lines in 2012 you couldn't get antyhign under a 5G line without a same gen swap or 1 CB Gold or 2 CB Metals (or mutliple CB Stripes or Blacks, as they had gone poof in the cave at that point ) now the line is drawn at 3G lines.

 

the "bad breeding" people are complaining about is user created. the lower lines are more sought after and therefore are bred more often. the more you breed a dragon and the more often you breed one; the less likely you are to get a baby from it.

 

6. this is solved by the raffle each year. and if TJ keeps doubling the amount of CB winners he gets each year ... well pretty soon all of us will win one imo

 

7. i know if i was a prize owner i wouldn't want this happening. not only is it not fair to the people on the lists, but also the points posted above.

 

8. is just not true in my experience of talking with prize owners and imo the people who think this are assuming the worst of prize owners rather than having actually talked to any prize owners. are they touchy when asked about trades from their prizes. yes, and i cant say i blame them. do you realize what they go through with those prize babies? how much they get bugged over them? we've all got lines that are stubborn producers and have IOUs on them that we desperately want to fill; prize owners have it even worse in that regard. but to say "they want to keep the feeling they've got something exclusive" is just a down right nasty lie and shows that who ever said it has not talked to many prize owners.

[Rhynn Collins]

I mostly wanted to comment on one objection people keep raising that's been bugging me. Real life raffles give out consolation prizes all the time! Sure, not the actual lottery, but small charity raffles frequently distribute a t-shirt or key chain or some other little trinket. Heck, my school did one every year and there was always a participation "prize". Maybe the DC raffle is closer to the lottery as it is a larger, frequently more anonymous community, but "everyone's not a winner in real life" doesn't strike me as a good reason to automatically shoot this down. Acknowledging and rewarding all the participants need not diminish the victory of the actual winners in any way. Sure, there are other reasons it may not be the best idea, but I don't love this one. (Honestly, I always hate this kind of reasoning so it's mostly a personal pet peeve. Sure, not everyone can have everything, but how does it hurt you if a fun, free event that requires little effort on your part makes a small gesture to please the masses?)

But there are already plenty of 'rewards'. There's plenty of fun to be had with the whole Christmas event, which the Raffle is a part of. Past holiday eggs, new holiday eggs, the Christmas event... isn't that plenty?

 

I've never liked the idea of consolation prizes (and that's from the standpoint of a 'loser', not a 'winner'); getting them is always a disappointment. What I want is the real prize, not some knock-off. If I lose, then so be it - better luck next time. Losing is part of anything where there are winners. I'm happy for those who did win and yes, I'll do what I can to get as close as possible to what they have. In a competition that means getting better, and in a DC raffle that means trying to get low-gen offspring of their dragons. It involves hard work, which is part of what makes it so rewarding to finally get it.

 

There's nothing wrong at all with getting disappointed every once in a while. It's great to help keep both feet firmly on the ground. This is true for real life, but also for DC: it will make accomplishments and success feel so much better. Even if the success means you just have to get lucky. I remember the first raffle, how it felt not to win, and how much time it took me to finally get that coveted first tinsel offspring. It took me ages but it felt so sweet to see that messy shiny on my scroll. From there, I very, very slowly managed to get more and better lines.

 

Had I already had a consolation prize myself... no, it would not nearly have felt as great to put all that work in. After all, I could have just done my thing with my coal prize.

 

So yes, I want to keep the special stuff feeling special. Not just for me: for everyone. Remembering that feeling of accomplishment after getting that first one, and every shimmer and tinsel since then... I wish that upon everyone. It's a wonderful feeling and totally worth all the work you put in it.

 

Speaking of the work: these days it really often is just as easy as PMing people who have the lines you like. Just make sure you follow whichever rules the person has (read their signature, their profile, and if they have one their google doc/website where they keep track of things) and always be polite. I know I've given away loads of nicely-lineaged shinies and every other person I've ever gotten shimmers and tinsels of is the same way. Heck, I've been gifted plenty myself. And if they don't want to gift, most people also ask for perfectly reasonable things in return. I always look at a person's scroll and if they don't have any shimmers/tinsels I'm interested in, I ask for stuff off my wishlist in any quantity the person feels it's worth. I've had people give me one somewhat rare hatchling for freezing, and I've had people who didn't seem to be able to stop giving me stuff. What's important for me is to make the other person happy; my own gain comes in second place.

 

TL;DR: I think consolation prizes are stupid in general and tinsels/shimmers are easy enough to get at the moment, so Coal prizes aren't needed.

 

Also, I totally agree with everything Red2111 said above.

[Syphoneira]

As has been pointed out, the Prize dragon sprites themselves, after years of breeding at multi-gen level, are not at all 'rare' - what's rare, because of the few CBs relative to the population, are the CBs and low-gens.

 

It has also been pointed out that, typically, only CBs and low-gens are useful for making less usual lineages.

 

 

Obviously, somebody getting one dragon won't stop them from continuing to want others.

 

But anyone even vaguely aware of the odds pretty much knows that they aren't going to win a CB Prize.

 

There may be a dream, a hope, but there's pretty much no way that's going to happen.

 

 

The odds are against many people obtaining 2nd gen Prizes either, simply due to the numbers involved, and it's been calculated that everyone cannot possibly even theoretically have a 2nd gen Prize any time this century.

 

 

On the other hand, there's a faint hope of everyone participating getting a beautiful recoloured sprite which will otherwise never exist, giving them the opportunity to breed with it as they please.

 

Of course this would not stop people from wanting low-gens of the other colours, but it would make them happy and bring another beautiful sprite to DC.

 

I really don't see a problem with this.

 

 

Yes, we have fun with the activities and the Raffle, but would DC explode if everyone participating also had a beautiful Coal dragon?

 

What's the hazard level of 'too much fun' for an event in a collecting game?

 

 

This may be a somewhat different distribution method than Summoning, being the reverse of people potentially waiting years to get something they'll presumably get in the end, and being, over time, virtually guaranteed of having them land on their scrolls, and it might be a somewhat different method to the Raffle itself, where only a very few people - but a guaranteed number - will eventually have a Prize/HM dragon land on their scroll, but the participation Coal dragon IS within the range of various new things which TJ has tried in the past.

 

One brilliant thing about these types of distribution methods is the fact that gaining these dragons is not dependent on people having fast systems, everyone has an equal chance, and only luck plays a role.

 

So why is an all-inclusive version of this raising such an outcry from some?

 

Is this partly because, as were so many other things we have now, such as Teleport and Incubate, Summoning and the Raffle, it hasn't been done before in DC?

[Fiona]

After much thought I have decided I do not support the idea of a coal version of any prize dragons being given as a participation reward. (or consolation prize or whatever you choose to call it) There have been many issues posted that this will supposedly address, but the fact is that it fixes none of the issues raised, but instead only feeds the entitlement that so many people feel. They didn't win a prize, so they want something else special instead? No. The coal version of shimmers that Mysfytt posted is lovely, and I wouldn't be opposed to it being available as an HM choice, if TJ and Mysfytt were in favor of that, but as something that everyone gets who qualifies for the raffle I think it's a bad idea. As for the other suggestions for distributing them, I think those are worse.

[cyradis4]

I'm strongly for the Coals as a consolation raffle prize.

I'm strongly against the Coals as a reward for playing year-round.

 

The Shimmers are, and always will be now, Prizes for the winter contest. Any other versions of them I feel should also be linked directly to the winter contest.

 

Cheers!

C4.

[Red2111]

i have another question for those supporting the consolation prize idea.

 

 

what about people who miss the raffle? or dont quallify for the raffle or start after the raffle or win an HM, or win a Tinsel?

 

the aim here is to get everyone a CB version of the shimmer (at their choice of course).

 

but if people miss the raffle or start playing after the raffle, this just adds another CB obtainable that people can no longer get to the long list that others already complain about not having or being able to get a CB of (ie: Bright Pinks, Previous Holidays, Firlls, ect)

 

 

so would the Coal be offered as a consolation prize every raffle?

 

would people be receive more than one on their scroll (ie: get one for this raffle and one next raffle and so on)?

 

edit - and since its a consolation prize this would disqualify any winners (prize or HM) from getting the Coal. i dont like that thought of people being disqualified for a CB sprite when the goal (or at least the pretense for wanting this sprite) is based on "equal distribution" and lineage making. this logic alone puts me against the idea of a consolation prize.

 

 

 

this is another reason why i dont support the consolation prize aspect. we get a consolation prize for being in the raffle (points to the badges, wreaths, trees and snow forts)

Edited November 21, 2014 by Red2111

[angelicdragonpuppy]

I completely do NOT support Coal prizes. At all. The raffle is to distribute something special to a select few very lucky people. It's not to give everyone something shiny. To me, consolation prizes are something you give to little kids running a race or something, not in an adoptables game. Shimmers and Tinsels were made to be extremely special and rare and hard to get. Releasing another, widely-available version of them just completely defeats the purpose. Yes, you can say it doesn't make the prizes less special, but to me it does.

 

I'm having some trouble really putting it into words, so I may edit this later or post again sometime when I have worded it better. But nothing I've read in here has yet convinced me that Coal prizes are a good idea.

 

*edited to change some words I definitely didn't think about well enough*

But the normal Prizes are already available widely--in lineaged form.

 

Anyone who throws a tantrum and thinks their one in a few thousand metallic shimmer is devalued by a commonplace everyone-has-one dull variant is a boob. People with CB Prizes still still have unique codes, an almost unique thing as far as CBs go, and the ability to obtain almost anything else in the game their hearts desire with relative ease. They don't need pity or extra feelings of being special. They're already extremely lucky.

Edited November 21, 2014 by angelicdragonpuppy

[MedievalMystic]

I don't need a 'consolation' prize. I read this topic as 'I didn't win and I'm a sore loser so I demand, deserve and am entitled to something because I chose to be here and participate'. There's something distasteful about that to me. I personally don't see any need for this whatsoever. The winners of prize dragons are the winners. Those that didn't win, better luck next time. The end as far as I'm concerned. Imo, the wonderful, fun events that TJ puts out there for everyone to enjoy should be enough for the masses.

 

Rhynn Collins, I like the way you think. I'm in agreement with everything you said.

Edited November 21, 2014 by MedievalMystic

[Syphoneira]

It seems to me that most supporters want it to be/can live with it being a participation prize, so that everyone gets it.

 

Nobody need panic about being stuck winning a CB Prize which then causes them to miss out on a Coal.

 

I don't actually see why anyone would have a problem with winners getting one - they ARE a different dragon, and getting one dragon won't prevent people from continuing to want another.

 

And I believe it's already been suggested that this be an annual thing, so that people who joined later/missed out would have a chance to get one the next year, while others could later get pairs and start working on pure-bred lineages.

 

 

I must add that I don't actually see anyone demanding anything, and am not sure where this 'sore loser' issue which several people have referred to comes in?

 

Almost nobody wins a Prize, and I think almost everyone knows that they have virtually no chance of winning, but the Raffle is nonetheless fun and I really can't see what's wrong with adding something extra, especially regarding a beautiful, specially recoloured sprite which we won't otherwise ever see.

 

 

[Jazeki]

i have another question for those supporting the consolation prize idea.

 

 

what about people who miss the raffle? or dont quallify for the raffle or start after the raffle or win an HM, or win a Tinsel?

 

the aim here is to get everyone a CB version of the shimmer (at their choice of course).

 

but if people miss the raffle or start playing after the raffle, this just adds another CB obtainable that people can no longer get to the long list that others already complain about not having or being able to get a CB of (ie: Bright Pinks, Previous Holidays, Firlls, ect)

 

 

so would the Coal be offered as a consolation prize every raffle? 

 

would people be receive more than one on their scroll (ie: get one for this raffle and one next raffle and so on)?

 

edit - and since its a consolation prize this would disqualify any winners (prize or HM) from getting the Coal.  i dont like that thought of people being disqualified for a CB sprite when the goal (or at least the pretense for wanting this sprite) is based on "equal distribution" and lineage making.   this logic alone puts me against the idea of a consolation prize.

 

 

 

this is another reason why i dont support the consolation prize aspect.   we get a consolation prize for being in the raffle  (points to the badges, wreaths, trees and snow forts)

If you miss the raffle, you don't get the prize because you didn't participate. That's a given. If you start after the raffle, you get the chance of getting the coal prize the next year if you participate in that raffle. I feel like people who win one of the top prizes (tinsel, shimmer, HM) should have the chance to swap out their prize for a coal if they want it, but they shouldn't get a coal and their prize since they already have a dragon to show for participating in that year's raffle. But that's me.

 

Editing to reiterate that I wouldn't really care if TJ decided to give top winners a coal dragon and their prize, but I still feel that people don't really need two dragons to show that they participated.

 

I feel like the coal prize should be offered every raffle and that they can get get the coal prize every year that they participate (just like some of the previous winners have won consecutive prizes). Participation earns the right to possibly win (or if this suggestion passes to have) a dragon.

Edited November 21, 2014 by Jazeki

[Fuzzbucket]

Anyone who throws a tantrum and thinks their one in a few thousand metallic shimmer is devalued by a commonplace everyone-has-one dull variant is a boob.

But also anyone who thinks a coal shimmer will stop people demanding ludicrous sums for a metallic one, and people desperately seeking low gens of those rather than coals is also somewhat deluded.

[Syphoneira]

Hi, Fuzzy!

 

I hope you're also agreeing with Angelicdragonpuppy, because you just elaborated on the point she was making.

 

(Not that I think the Coal is dull!)

[bluesonic1]

If you miss the raffle, you don't get the prize because you didn't participate. That's a given. If you start after the raffle, you get the chance of getting the coal prize the next year if you participate in that raffle. I feel like people who win one of the top prizes (tinsel, shimmer, HM) should have the chance to swap out their prize for a coal if they want it, but they shouldn't get a coal and their prize since they already have a dragon to show for participating in that year's raffle. But that's me.

 

I feel like the coal prize should be offered every raffle and that they can get get the coal prize every year that they participate (just like some of the previous winners have won consecutive prizes). Participation earns the right to possibly win (or if this suggestion passes to have) a dragon.

That's the point Red2111 was trying to make, that one of the OP's reasons for having this Coal dragon is that there are less dragons to strain yourself collecting/making lineages with. But the Coal itself is just going to end up as another dragon to add to the list rather than deterring attention from the shiny prize ones.

[Fuzzbucket]

Hi, Fuzzy!

 

I hope you're also agreeing with Angelicdragonpuppy, because you just elaborated on the point she was making.

 

(Not that I think the Coal is dull!)

Yes indeed - but she didn't spell out THAT side of it exactly. Some people seem to think that the coal would satisfy those who feel they are entitled to CB shimmers - or at the VERY LEAST 2 gens. NO WAY !

[Jazeki]

bluesonic1, I was answering Red2011's questions that she posed to people who are in favor of this suggestion. Also, I don't see how the coal dragon becomes just another dragon to add to the list of CBs that people cannot get since they have a chance for a CB coal shimmer (and the other prizes) when they participate the following year. They will still be in limited circulation (unlike frills, bright pinks, and holidays).

 

Also, the point of this suggestion as I see it is to give users a dragon to do something with in between January and the Valentine's release. Yes, people (including me) have pointed out that the coal won't distract people from wanting a top prize, but it gives them a dragon in the meantime.

 

 

 

 

[MedievalMystic]

and am not sure where this 'sore loser' issue which several people have referred to comes in?

 

Have you not read the thread after prize winners are announced? The 'woe is me' is deep and pity parties run rampant. There's so much of that going on that it literally takes over the entire thread. Any post that congratulates the winners gets lost in the vast sea of self pity. It's gotten to the point where I dread having to deal with it every Christmas. And God help the winners if they're excited about winning or want to talk about the dragon, which is perfectly understandable. Then they're jumped on by the 'poor me' crowd for bragging and other such nonsense. It's a pretty pathetic and sad display for sure.. Wait for it. It's coming. Again.

Edited November 21, 2014 by MedievalMystic

[Syphoneira]

Yes indeed - but she didn't spell out THAT side of it exactly. Some people seem to think that the coal would satisfy those who feel they are entitled to CB shimmers - or at the VERY LEAST 2 gens. NO WAY !

 

 

 

 

 

Lol, personally, I haven't actually seen anyone who said they were 'entitled' to win!

 

People would, naturally, LIKE to win, despite knowing that they've really no chance, but they'd be happy if they could get 2nd gens, and they'd like to see more produced, which doesn't sound like a Bad Thing to me.

 

You are, of course, right that getting one dragon certainly won't stop anyone continuing to want low-gens of another, although new dragons are always super, and the Coal would make gorgeous babies!

 

And the Coal's a sprite I'll persist in hoping for until TJ says no.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

I don't think coal shimmers will make everyone content with not winning, certainly. I'm also not going to particularly care if it doesn't happen.

 

My motivation is entirely:

1) Shimmerscales are pretty, a black shimmerscale would be extra pretty, and I like collecting pretty new dragons, and

2) The announcement of prizes being distributed is, I believe, the only major, regular news announcement we have in which the thing being done (in this case, prize distribution) only affects an extreme minority of the site. Adding a shiny trinket participation prize would make that announcement interesting for the majority who didn't win a prize at all.

 

So, is it a solution to the annoyances people have with the prize dragon situation? No. Is it going to be horrible and devastating if it's not added? Nope. Is it a pretty fun thing that wouldn't really hurt anyone, and that I think would be cool to have? Yep.

[Laugh]

Have you not read the thread after prize winners are announced? The 'woe is me' is deep and pity parties run rampant. There's so much of that going on that it literally takes over the entire thread. Any post that congratulates the winners gets lost in the vast sea of self pity. It's gotten to the point where I dread having to deal with it every Christmas.

Although I do not support this suggestion.... (Just going to say this so you don't think I'm one of those wanting a coal dragon as a consolation)

 

I actually kept track of that thread since it was opened until it was closed. Any posts that I missed while I was asleep I read. I remember WAY MORE congratulations posted than "I'm quitting I didn't get a prize," "Another year of greed! ", etc. I cannot speak for the redraws thread (something like that), I didn't even touch it. Sure there were "Didn't win " posts, but they weren't going to the extreme like the other examples provided above. If I had to compare the GoN thread to the 2013 Raffle, I'd say the GoN had WAY MORE people being upset/threaten to leave game.

[MedievalMystic]

So, is it a solution to the annoyances people have with the prize dragon situation? No. Is it going to be horrible and devastating if it's not added? Nope. Is it a pretty fun thing that wouldn't really hurt anyone, and that I think would be cool to have? Yep.

 

Let's call a spade a spade. What you really mean is the 'annoyances' sore losers have with the prize dragon because I don't have a problem with it at all.

 

To me, this whole thing is about consoling sore losers and personally, I don't want them consoled or coddled for having lousy attitudes when winners are announced. What kind of crap is that?

 

Adding a shiny trinket participation prize would make that announcement interesting for the majority who didn't win a prize at all.

 

In other words, some people need a 'shiny trinket' to help them actually be HAPPY for someone else because there's something in it for them. Isn't that beautiful.

 

Does it 'hurt' anyone? I think it 'hurts' on principle and simply feeds into the 'I deserve', 'I demand', 'I'm entitled' mentality that is widespread on this site. The less people buy into that ridiculousness the better, imo. The thought of TJ bowing down to this... just...no.

 

Saynna, I'm going to make a point of counting all those pity party posts this year. I'll PM you with the results in December.

Edited November 22, 2014 by MedievalMystic