ANSWERED:Release a Coal Version of the prize dragon?

[Slaskia]

@Slaskia: Oh, I thought you were talking not just about new prizes, but also about current Prizes. That'd be nice, but it still doesn't solve the issues surrounding the current Prizes.

Yeah, I'd love to include the current prizes in my suggestion, but, like I mentioned in my suggestion post, it would cause a storm worse than the gold upgrade. That's why it would only be feasible for possible 'future' new prizes.

 

Guess you could say this would be a supplement to any idea involving the current prizes.

[LadyFoxfire]

@AnanoKimi - Making the current prize dragons HMs are a great idea too, so long as they didn't lose their ability to produce offspring of their own kind and color, like the penks and frills did. That would just make me really sad.

 

All in all, the "souvenir" from the Snow Wars event was my little blue ribbon and I'm extremely pleased with just that. I love going to a person's scroll and seeing all the little badges of things they've been a part of and part of my goal is to collect those by participating in every single event possible. It isn't about the dragon for me, so I'm definitely not one of those being called sore losers. Still can't say I'm against consolation prizes, though, but I'd actually rather have a shiny coal shimmer released as a regular rare in the cave. I think I'd rather have every dragon released in the caves instead of any kind of prize dragons, but it's a little too late for that seeing as how we do have prize dragons and those who won them would be upset if they were suddenly released in the cave. Breeding ratios, however, are definitely a problem.

 

Just seems like there are several solutions to the problem, but no one seems to agree on them... and I, myself, agree with many of them, so I'm undecided. I'm just happy to be able to get high gen prizes with neat lineages. I do hope at least those continue, which is why I'm against the recoloring of the offspring.

[LeviathinGeneral]

I think I lie this idea.

[whitebaron]

It might not entirely be for the sore losers as I've mentioned but to some extent it is. Though I agree new recolor would be cute but I don't think its necessary because I like spreading the shiny love better, on top of like i said it feels like a bit much but all in all its not a bad last resort.

To "Like sharing" is one thing, but you physically CAN'T do that enough.

 

Assuming your prize breeds true every 4 weeks, (seems a good average value if you dont use the too common mates) you can get 13 2gs and 91 3gs in a year. That's nothing, compared to the amount of users.

 

Thats whay those of us who like the Sprites and like lineages are so saddened, too - I'd take any color Shimmer if it was CB obtainable, just because the sprite is so gorgeous. Trading multiple metals for it as well, if that's what it took. And i have not shortage of low gen shimmers... still, its not nearly enough to what I'd want to do. I had to settle for near-perfect-checkers because everything else is almost impossible. Try to find 8 2g fails and 8 2g shimmers of the same breed... yeah. not possible. Give me another metallic eastern, and this might ease... but until then, they are my sunshines.

[Sheriziya]

Hm...what if...if there are new prize breeds in the future, the gold/silver/bronze prize is treated like a spriter's alt and a non-metal colored version was released at the same time they winners get theirs? 

 

That way, everyone has a chance at a CB (from the cave release version), the winners have something special, but won't have the strangle hold on the market like the current ones do.

 

I say 'if there are new ones', as I'm one of those opposed adding more CB exclusives like these (heck, I was one of those that was very much opposed to the existence of prize dragons at all).  But, if there will be more prize breeds, this is how I would rather it be done.

 

Of course, the tinsels and shimmers would have to remain as they are, as I seriously doubt ANYONE would agree to offspring suddenly changing retroactively (would see the forums blowing up worse than when the golds were 'updated').

 

Just a suggestion...don't bite me too hard for it....

I really like this idea for possible future prizes! Unfortunately it doesn't solve the problem for the current prizes, like you already stated yourself

 

It's a good addition, though!

I agree it wouldn't work to retroactively make all the current prizes breed like spriter's alts. That would cause whole other, possibly worse, issues.

 

@Slaskia: Would you like me to include this idea in the "release the prize dragons in-cave"-suggestion as an extra option?

 

AnanoKimi's idea of having the current prizes as HM's and not do any 1-2-3 prizes anymore might work in the basics but that would mean:

- No new prize breeds (and I'd love to see new prize breeds, though I have no idea if TJ ever planned to have new prize breeds introduced)

- Still a lack of a good pool for lineages

- Do we need to determine how someone gets the gold, silver or bronze variant? Or wouldn't it matter anymore, since it would have become an HM.

- The amount of HM's would probably have to be raised pretty significantly if we'd like to "spread the love for shinies" better.

 

I like the idea of having the coal version as a "participation prize" instead of a "consolation prize" a lot!

 

Although the original idea was to have a coal version of each new prize breed that would be introduced, I do kinda like the idea to have a fixed participation prize for every year/raffle. But perhaps I'm biased because I absolutely adore both the Shimmers and the Tinsels (yes, I'm aware the Tinsels are NOT to be recolored ) and I'd love to get a few (shiny) black Shimmers.

Hmmm... I wonder what the difference would be between a shiny black Shimmer and a non-shiny black shimmer

 

As for who would get the participation prize, I still stand with this point:

Giving the coalversion as a prize was meant for all participants except the 1-2-3 prize winners of that particular raffle because they'd already get the shiny version of the prize. So, Tinsel winners wouldn't get the coal version in that particular raffle either. In raffles where you don't win a 1/2/3 prize, you will get the coal version as a consolation prize, HM winners too.

I do understand that with RL raffles you might get both doorprizes and actual prizes in the raffles, but since we've got a certain market here (which you usually don't have with RL raffles, or at least not a similar situation like we currently have) where prize winners pretty much control the market, I don't see why they should both win the highly valuable prize (with all the benefits coming from it) AND the participation prize). They'll receive a participation prize in the raffle they don't win a prize in anyway, so eventually all raffle participants will have at least one, if not multiple participation prizes.

If the winners wouldn't have such a control on the market, in other words, if the market would be normally balanced, I wouldn't mind them getting a participation prize as well. But now, sorry, no.

[CNR4806]

As for who would get the participation prize, I still stand with this point:

I do understand that with RL raffles you might get both doorprizes and actual prizes in the raffles, but since we've got a certain market here (which you usually don't have with RL raffles, or at least not a similar situation like we currently have) where prize winners pretty much control the market, I don't see why they should both win the highly valuable prize (with all the benefits coming from it) AND the participation prize). They'll receive a participation prize in the raffle they don't win a prize in anyway, so eventually all raffle participants will have at least one, if not multiple participation prizes.

 

If the winners wouldn't have such a control on the market, in other words, if the market would be normally balanced, I wouldn't mind them getting a participation prize as well. But now, sorry, no.

Sorry, but this is starting to sound awfully like retribution against the winners.

 

At this rate I'm afraid I can no longer support this suggestion.

 

And yes, I'm aware that the winners can just create an IOU list and make people offer their consolation prize and firstborn child for a 2nd gen. It's the concept of the idea that's starting to go astray.

 

 

The consolation or participation prize have one common goal at the end: to tame the raging people who didn't win by giving them SOMETHING that's more useful than a badge to play with for participating in the raffle event. A goal that is not mutually exclusive with the winners getting the said participation prize, in the case that the participation prize is of a completely different breed from their own prize.

 

An increasing trend I see in this thread is that instead of trying to make everyone happy (or less unhappy), some are actively advocating to implement this suggestion as a revenge to prize winners, to have a dragon that they can say "you can't have this because you got yourself a money printer and that's very enough" in the face of the said winners, which I cannot agree with.

Edited February 27, 2014 by CNR4806

[MedievalMystic]

As for who would get the participation prize, I still stand with this point:

I do understand that with RL raffles you might get both doorprizes and actual prizes in the raffles, but since we've got a certain market here (which you usually don't have with RL raffles, or at least not a similar situation like we currently have) where prize winners pretty much control the market, I don't see why they should both win the highly valuable prize (with all the benefits coming from it) AND the participation prize). They'll receive a participation prize in the raffle they don't win a prize in anyway, so eventually all raffle participants will have at least one, if not multiple participation prizes.

 

If the winners wouldn't have such a control on the market, in other words, if the market would be normally balanced, I wouldn't mind them getting a participation prize as well. But now, sorry, no.

 

As for why prize winners should be a part of any 'participation' prize, well....they participated. Why should they be excluded from it? So what if they have two dragons.

 

This is so funny. People are complaining that they're excluded and didn't win the prize dragon, or see it as 'unfair' somehow for various reasons, yet in the same breath, they're saying it's just dandy to exclude prize winners from the 'participation' dragon. Gotta love it.

 

It's not a prize winners fault that they won the prize. lol If they participated in an event and won a prize dragon, then as far as I'm concerned they should certainly be included in a participation dragon, too. But, whatever. That's just my two cents.

[Slaskia]

@Slaskia: Would you like me to include this idea in the "release the prize dragons in-cave"-suggestion as an extra option?

Sure, go ahead! Just be sure to make it clear that it's only for NEW prize breeds in the future, not current ones.

 

 

As for participation prizes, I'm not really in agreement with having winners it too. Let me explain:

 

When I was in archery, I participated in two league competitions that catered to a wide range of age groups and skill levels. I placed as 2nd in both competitions in my sex group for the bow class I was in. In addition to the 2nd place trophy, I also got a participation trophy...which I felt was a waste of money (and space) to give me as I got a 'winning' trophy.

 

I take the same stance here at DC: why should winners also get a 'participation' prize when they are already going to get one that is seen as a lot more valuable, trade wise? Seems like a waste to me.

[AnanoKimi]

As for why prize winners should be a part of any 'participation' prize, well....they participated. Why should they be excluded from it? So what if they have two dragons.

 

This is so funny. People are complaining that they're excluded and didn't win the prize dragon, or see it as 'unfair' somehow for various reasons, yet in the same breath, they're saying it's just dandy to exclude prize winners from the 'participation' dragon. Gotta love it.

 

It's not a prize winners fault that they won the prize. lol If they participated in an event and won a prize dragon, then as far as I'm concerned they should certainly be included in a participation dragon, too. But, whatever. That's just my two cents.

Lets say there was a coal colored tinsel. I won a silver this raffle, why on earth would I want 2 Prizes? A tinsel and a coal? That makes no sense. Yeah I participated but I won I don't need a feel good participation prize because I have my feel awesome silver prize. Its rather pointless and a bit much. A winner won a prize already, why give them even more. That feels unfair to me.

 

Really only non winning participants should get a chance at this and if necessary, give placement winners a chance to either get the placement prize (gold, silver, bronze) or the coal. Not both. Thats too much.

[Sheriziya]

Sorry, but this is starting to sound awfully like retribution against the winners.

Maybe I should have carified myself better Earlier I had already stated (I think in the OP, but at least somewhere) that winners already get a prize... The prize dragon in itself. And like AnanoKimi said, why would they get 2 prizes (one prize dragon and one coal version)?

 

As for the point of the market thing..... In other topics it's being said the other way around: because the prize dragon would devalue people don't want:

- Small changes

- Release into the cave

- etc.

Who benefits from the high price of the prizes? First the winners, then on the (very) long run, 2nd gen and higher owners.

And those who are not winners/catchers of CB prizes apparently are sore loosers/whiners/whatever you want for making the other suggestions.

 

Why not say it the other way around here? I'm just going on the assumption the prizes will never be released into the cave.

 

I don't want to punish the winners, but they already get a shiny dragon which only a very small part of the population gets. And it's not like they won't receive a coal version in the next raffle. After all, we did state only the winners of raffle 1 won't receive a coal version prize from raffle 1. If they don't win in raffle 2, they will receive a coal version prize from raffle 2.

 

I guess this too will be a difficult thing to implement, with the main question: do the prize winners get a second dragon for participating?

 

hmmmm........ Do we now have yet again another can of worms/dillemma to which we don't find a solution?

 

@Slaskia: I'll include your idea in the appropriate thread

[AnanoKimi]

Maybe I should have carified myself better Earlier I had already stated (I think in the OP, but at least somewhere) that winners already get a prize... The prize dragon in itself. And like AnanoKimi said, why would they get 2 prizes (one prize dragon and one coal version)?

 

As for the point of the market thing..... In other topics it's being said the other way around: because the prize dragon would devalue people don't want:

- Small changes

- Release into the cave

- etc.

Who benefits from the high price of the prizes? First the winners, then on the (very) long run, 2nd gen and higher owners.

And those who are not winners/catchers of CB prizes apparently are sore loosers/whiners/whatever you want for making the other suggestions.

 

Why not say it the other way around here? I'm just going on the assumption the prizes will never be released into the cave.

 

I don't want to punish the winners, but they already get a shiny dragon which only a very small part of the population gets. And it's not like they won't receive a coal version in the next raffle. After all, we did state only the winners of raffle 1 won't receive a coal version prize from raffle 1. If they don't win in raffle 2, they will receive a coal version prize from raffle 2.

 

I guess this too will be a difficult thing to implement, with the main question: do the prize winners get a second dragon for participating?

 

hmmmm........ Do we now have yet again another can of worms/dillemma to which we don't find a solution?

 

@Slaskia: I'll include your idea in the appropriate thread

This is also why I see it unecessary to bring in something like this. it adds in a whole new dimension of problems ontop of prizes breeding nothing but commons when they feel like it and then maybe spitting out a prize baby for you. I really think if we can just eally push for support to improve how often Prize dragons spit out prize babies and add in multi clutching, then most of this will be resolved. and with a proper plan to allow Prizes to run as HM for quite some time rather than being released, then we can maybe see an improvement to this situation.

[whitebaron]

Dragons are not medals. This is a totally wrong comparison. Dragons are more like Lego. You can collect whatever you want, depending on your budget (lego) or luck (dc). It's totally up to me whether i only use basic bricks, that might be bought in third-hand, or if I need the shiny / lego super star destroyer, 20 times.

 

If you get a medal, it usually is to commemorate the event, and that you only do once.

 

If you get a lego piece, you're gonna use it, and if you get two, you'll use two. There is no redundancy there that is unwelcome in a collecting game. Heck, if 1st-3rd prize winners could downgrade to TWO HMs, would that be bad? No, not really something to argue about there. A Coal shimmer would not be a prize, anyway. Something everyone gets, is no prize.

[AnanoKimi]

Dragons are not medals. This is a totally wrong comparison. Dragons are more like Lego. You can collect whatever you want, depending on your budget (lego) or luck (dc). It's totally up to me whether i only use basic bricks, that might be bought in third-hand, or if I need the shiny / lego super star destroyer, 20 times.

 

If you get a medal, it usually is to commemorate the event, and that you only do once.

 

If you get a lego piece, you're gonna use it, and if you get two, you'll use two. There is no redundancy there that is unwelcome in a collecting game. Heck, if 1st-3rd prize winners could downgrade to TWO HMs, would that be bad? No, not really something to argue about there. A Coal shimmer would not be a prize, anyway. Something everyone gets, is no prize.

If it is not a consolation prize then what is it?

 

Personally they are like medals or trophies, and events aren't only done once. There are many who return to the same event year after year whether they won or not. The winners can continue to collect prizes, and participants continue to receive a participation prize. They are all prizes and trophies. Its just these trophies also work kinda like pez dispensers. Except they dispense crud except for the occasional miracle where they dispense an actual good candy.

 

Strange comparison I know. Shush. Tinsels and Shimmers are our medals, we won these medals through luck, skill, or whatever was needed to win. We do not need One gold medal for winning, and one coal medal for being there. The gold medal already represents winning and being there.

 

As a Prize winner I do not agree with the concept of winning a Silver tinsel and getting a coal shimmer. Just doesn't make sense and is a bit much. If Prize winners really want a coal shimmer, trade for a 2nd gen like others have to trade for your metalic 2nd gen babies.

[Tawanda001]

Most events I've been too that give out stuff for participation don't consider it a prize. It's simply something they hand to you as you come in the door that says"thank you for coming to our event" and everyone gets one. Kinda like the ribbon on your scroll for doing the snow fort.

If the winners will get one the following year anyway I don't really see why it would hurt to just let them have it to begin with. It won't be all that valuable if all participants get one, it will just be another shiny toy, timed to give people a little something to feel good about and maybe distract a little from not getting 'the big prize'

I don't see this as a true solution, but I don't think it would hurt anything either and just might generate a little more goodwill in the community.

"hey come check out this game I play, they have a raffle and even if you don't win you still get a really cool dragon to play with"- how is that bad?

[DragonLady86]

While I can't say no to having another dragon in the cave, that's all this suggestion is to me: another dragon. It is not a prize, will never be a prize, and is just a different set of sprites to collect. A coal shimmer is in no way going to help improve the obtainability of prizes to the general population. Not to mention that it will only cause people to complain that they can't have a coal tinsel which has already been firmly vetoed by the artist.

[Mondat]

why should winners also get a 'participation' prize when they are already going to get one that is seen as a lot more valuable, trade wise? Seems like a waste to me.

Wow.

 

 

-> People who didn't win the raffle get a speshul 'participation' dragon. This is fair and "it wouldn't hurt anyone".

-> The winners do not get a 'participation' dragon though, because trade market, values blah blah I don't want to punish the winners, but blah blah.

That would be unfair = "it would hurt us non-winners because the winners get 2 and we only have 1", that's all I can read from it. Considering that you all write yourself that the 'participation' dragon won't be as valueable as the prize dragon anyway. It's like saying a person can get this expensive pair of gold shoes but cannot get the cheap shoe box just because, to me.

 

Why should the winners get 2, you ask? Why should you, non-winners, get ONE when another person getting another dragon bothers you that much, I have to ask?

 

I surely wouldn't mind a new black dragon to be released, but the release shouldn't have anything to do with the raffle - not from what I have been reading here by you people. No. Mondat doesn't approve.

Edited February 28, 2014 by Mondat

[Millie_Azure]

If this ever gets implemented, I want an "opt out" button. I don't need a "feel good" prize for participating in the event. My "feel good" prize is the shiny badge on my scroll, and I shouldn't have to abandon an egg I didn't want in the first place. Life has winners, and life has loser. If I entered a raffle for a car and lost, I wouldn't want a Hot Wheels replica. No. Just no. For the love of the remaining sanity in society, please no.

[AnanoKimi]

Wow.

 

 

-> People who didn't win the raffle get a speshul 'participation' dragon. This is fair and "it wouldn't hurt anyone".

-> The winners do not get a 'participation' dragon though, because trade market, values blah blah I don't want to punish the winners, but blah blah.

That would be unfair = "it would hurt us non-winners because the winners get 2 and we only have 1", that's all I can read from it. Considering that you all write yourself that the 'participation' dragon won't be as valueable as the prize dragon anyway. It's like saying a person can get this expensive pair of gold shoes but cannot get the cheap shoe box just because, to me.

 

Why should the winners get 2, you ask? Why should you, non-winners, get ONE when another person getting another dragon bothers you that much, I have to ask?

 

I surely wouldn't mind a new black dragon to be released, but the release shouldn't have anything to do with the raffle - not from what I have been reading here by you people. No. Mondat doesn't approve.

Not to sound rude but you seem to be so angry... I have the worst urge to just gently pat your shoulders and be like "Its alright, deep breaths.... and count to ten." Or at the very least give you some chocolate to see if that calms you down a tad.

 

On topic:

 

Again as a Prize winner my self I find the idea of getting a shiny silver tinsel and random coal dragon a little over the top, too much, and uneeded. I've stated many time before i do not completely agree with this idea because it will not help improve how tinsels and shimmers breed out prize eggs, it will not improve the 'market value of Prize 2nd-5th gens, it is not a solution to the problem it is meerely an attempt at a distraction. Its like watching a child about to cry because you took away the toy they wanted to buy so you give them some candy, or your [hone to play with ( I am not comparing non winners or anyone to a crying child, its a somwhat similar situation). Giving them your phone or some candy didn;t solve the problem of them wanting the toy, you've temporarily put off the fact that you don;t have the money to buy it and probably wont any time soon.

 

Same concept applies here. We are not resolving this issue of little to no CB Prizes breeding, 2nd Gen prize babies being so rare they are almost as bad as GoN (Almost), andthe factthat there is such high demand for low gen prize babies its rediculous. What this is is simply trying to shake some keys infron of the non winners faces and go, "Oh hey lookie this, ignore the fact that they got shinies and you don't~"

 

On to the issue at hand. I do not agree with 2 dragons for Already prize winners because why? A pair of shoes and a box is a very poor comparison. Prizes are prizes not shoes. it's like going to a tournament, beating everyone and getting first place. You get an amazing trophy with your name on it and the engraving "2014 Tournament of Randomness". This is your memento and your prize. Yet they also suddenly hand you a mini trophy, really cheap and generic, that has nothing but "2014 Tournament of Randomness" on it. Your trophy already says that and you have this magnificent gold painted trophy with fake jewels and stuff. Why do you also want the cheap generic trophy to commemorate the occasion? Should your glorious first place trophy be enough?

 

That is my point? It feels greedy to win an awesome prize and still ask to be given a participation prize that does not compare to the awesome prize you got. Really there is no point.

Edited February 28, 2014 by AnanoKimi

[Mondat]

Not to sound rude but you seem to be so angry... I have the worst urge to just gently pat your shoulders and be like "Its alright, deep breaths.... and count to ten." Or at the very least give you some chocolate to see if that calms you down a tad.

 

On topic:

 

Again as a Prize winner my self I find the idea of getting a shiny silver tinsel and random coal dragon a little over the top, too much, and uneeded. I've stated many time before i do not completely agree with this idea because it will not help improve how tinsels and shimmers breed out prize eggs, it will not improve the 'market value of Prize 2nd-5th gens, it is not a solution to the problem it is meerely an attempt at a distraction. Its like watching a child about to cry because you took away the toy they wanted to buy so you give them some candy, or your [hone to play with ( I am not comparing non winners or anyone to a crying child, its a somwhat similar situation). Giving them your phone or some candy didn;t solve the problem of them wanting the toy, you've temporarily put off the fact that you don;t have the money to buy it and probably wont any time soon.

 

Same concept applies here. We are not resolving this issue of little to no CB Prizes breeding, 2nd Gen prize babies being so rare they are almost as bad as GoN (Almost), andthe factthat there is such high demand for low gen prize babies its rediculous. What this is is simply trying to shake some keys infron of the non winners faces and go, "Oh hey lookie this, ignore the fact that they got shinies and you don't~"

 

On to the issue at hand. I do not agree with 2 dragons for Already prize winners because why? A pair of shoes and a box is a very poor comparison. Prizes are prizes not shoes. it's like going to a tournament, beating everyone and getting first place. You get an amazing trophy with your name on it and the engraving "2014 Tournament of Randomness". This is your memento and your prize. Yet they also suddenly hand you a mini trophy, really cheap and generic, that has nothing but "2014 Tournament of Randomness" on it. Your trophy already says that and you have this magnificent gold painted trophy with fake jewels and stuff. Why do you also want the cheap generic trophy to commemorate the occasion? Should your glorious first place trophy be enough?

 

That is my point? It feels greedy to win an awesome prize and still ask to be given a participation prize that does not compare to the awesome prize you got. Really there is no point.

Don't worry, I will make myself clear when I'm really angry. Just because I state my opinion without smileys etc. doesn't mean I am angry. And I do not need a participation/consolation prize chocolate, but thanks.

 

You know...from my view...

+ It's a raffle. There are supposed to be clear winners and non-winners.

+ Handing out a participation dragon for all but the prize winners who clearly participated as well doesn't make sense to me. People who are saying "it seems like a waste" don't make sense to me. The participation dragon is not as valueable as the prize dragon because everybody else gets it so why does it hurt to give it to the prize winners as well? They are "greedy" when they want to have the same virtual participation pet because they participated the same way as all the others but they cannot get it because they won? Oh wait, then what are all the people who want to have their own raffle dragon just because they didn't win? Doesn't make any sense to me either. And I would really prefer to leave the "what do I do with my participation dragon?"-decision to the future winners anyway. If they don't want/need it, they can give it away. I was reminded in another thread that it seems unfair to guess what other people want, so there you go.

+ I would like to point out that you and some other people clearly state that this suggestion doesn't help to spread low-gen prizes. In my opinion it is just a poor attempt to change the raffle into something else.

+ Needless to mention that I know that you changed your opinon in the "no new prize breeds" thread before, who knows if you change your mind again?

 

 

Anyway, I've already stated my opinion and I do not want to repeat myself and all I can else add is: what Marrionetta said.

Not winning a free raffle does not leave you with anything less than you entered into it with. Nobody earned their prize dragons, they simply got lucky within the same odds and infrastructure everyone else did, and therefore nobody needs to 'feel bad they didn't win.' You've lost literally nothing. You don't need to be coddled. You don't need consolation prizes. I promise you will be ok.

 

Winning should be viewed a fun cherry-on-top sort of ordeal, not as the only acceptable outcome when the odds are most certainly not ever in your favor.

[AnanoKimi]

Don't worry, I will make myself clear when I'm really angry. Just because I state my opinion without smileys etc. doesn't mean I am angry. And I do not need a participation/consolation prize chocolate, but thanks.

 

You know...from my view...

+ It's a raffle. There are supposed to be clear winners and non-winners.

+ Handing out a participation dragon for all but the prize winners who clearly participated as well doesn't make sense to me. People who are saying "it seems like a waste" don't make sense to me. The participation dragon is not as valueable as the prize dragon because everybody else gets it so why does it hurt to give it to the prize winners as well? They are "greedy" when they want to have the same virtual participation pet because they participated the same way as all the others but they cannot get it because they won? Oh wait, then what are all the people who want to have their own raffle dragon just because they didn't win? Doesn't make any sense to me either. And I would really prefer to leave the "what do I do with my participation dragon?"-decision to the future winners anyway. If they don't want/need it, they can give it away. I was reminded in another thread that it seems unfair to guess what other people want, so there you go.

+ I would like to point out that you and some other people clearly state that this suggestion doesn't help to spread low-gen prizes. In my opinion it is just a poor attempt to change the raffle into something else.

+ Needless to mention that I know that you changed your opinon in the "no new prize breeds" thread before, who knows if you change your mind again?

 

 

Anyway, I've already stated my opinion and I do not want to repeat myself and all I can else add is: what Marrionetta said.

I'm on the fence. If i see no improvement in terms of trying to get prizes to just breed better, then I will move for simply the plan of no one gets anythng special ever again thing.

 

Eh its complicated for me to explain it in terms of why not. I mean... Its just a bit much as I have mentioned. Like you said, they won so really what more do they need? what is the poit of giving the winner a participation prize if really their winning prize is their participation prize?

 

Though I agree with that last quote you put there. As I've mentioned before, I do not entirely like this idea... I'm like 99% against it because as I'm sure it has been mentioned, How does a consolation prize fix the high demand of tinsel/shimmer 2nd gens and improve the availability of prize 2nd gens and what not.

 

This is really unnecessary. We should focus on ways to push for breeding ratios to favor shiny prize babies over squat or common babies bred from prizes. We should focus on things like multi clutching, planning for future prize breeds, etc. This is really just a side thing that has very little place in the idea of fixing raffles as a whole.

 

All in all, imean let the public choose as they want but really all this is kinda just putting me off from contests and raffles. This particular idea more than anything.

 

Can I at least offer a hug and your favorite treat? despite our clashing heads I quite enjoy our little arguments and contrasting opinions.

[Elery.]

I always welcome new dragons in my scroll. I wouldn't mind if this was implemented, but I also don't mind if it's not. I would rather be lucky enough and actually win a shinny dragon in the raffle, but consolation prizes aren't a bad thing. A Coal Shimmer would look amazing and I don't see why everyone that participated couldn't get one if they wanted whether they already won or not.

 

I got to thinking and if it's a consolation prize that is wanted why not make a consolation prize breed? Maybe a pygmy or a different kind of dragon. Has anyone ever gotten those miniature trophies when they didn't win? Something like that. It could be different every year to commemorate the year the event took place.

Just my 2 cents.

 

I have not read all the posts in the thread so I don't know if this has already been said :3

[SolarCat]

Random off-the-wall suggestion, combining a bunch of comments/suggestions/requests/complaints I've seen.

This would only be applicable for new prize breeds, as I don't see how to make it feasible for past breeds, mainly the Tinsels per Marionetta's request.

 

1. New prize dragon every 2 years. (This keeps with the current pattern).

2. Prize dragons awarded as usual - 1st/2nd/3rd/HM. The prize breed can breed true, in it's own color. (Again, no change from before)

3. Participation prize, different "common" color of newest prize dragon for all non-winning participants. (Winners can pick up the "common" coloration in CB participating both years (and of course, by not winning both years! )).

4. Participation prize breeds true.

5. Prize dragon breeds awarded as 1st/2nd/3rd for 3 years total (following the pattern of the Tinsel) before being retired.

 

This would create a situation similar to the current holiday dragons for the breed (CBs available for limited number of years, but large quantity available).

It would add in a "prize" factor for the winners similar to the whole "Alt Sweetling" or Holiday Spriters' Alts - except that the alts would breed true, so everyone could have the special-colored sprite, it would just be a lineaged one.

 

This would keep up the value of the "prizes" and keep them rare and limited and desired, while still allowing the majority of the DragCave community to obtain an easier variation of the sprite (the "common" coloration).

By retiring the prizes from being awarded (has to be after at least three years total, or else offer it as an HM option on the third year - unless of course the number of winners was increased drastically) it keeps the low-gens of those colorations/variations popular and valuable while still permitting those who weren't around that year and/or don't have anything valuable to trade to obtain lower generations and do projects with the particular dragon - just not the fancy limited sprites.

 

Even if the quantity of prizes awarded were increased dramatically, I still feel that the newest dragon should be offered two years in a row. This helps keep the numbers a bit more active and permits a new crowd to get on breeding lists (since they do move slow) while also allowing the winners to obtain a CB version of the same dragon they won a special coloration of by merely participating in the event twice.

The "common" coloration's breeding ratios must also be kept separate from the prize colorations' breeding ratios, or this will create a larger problem than the one it's trying to solve.

 

Anyway, just my thoughts, sort of a mishmash of all the threads, but I think it's a nice balance?

[Syphoneira]

While I can't say no to having another dragon in the cave, that's all this suggestion is to me: another dragon.  It is not a prize, will never be a prize, and is just a different set of sprites to collect.  A coal shimmer is in no way going to help improve the obtainability of prizes to the general population.  Not to mention that it will only cause people to complain that they can't have a coal tinsel which has already been firmly vetoed by the artist.

 

 

 

 

 

Lol, exactly! I believe that's the point of the suggestion, and what's wrong with that?

 

We have a fun event, everyone gets a new dragon to play with and breed, a few people win a Prize, and YAY all around.

 

Obviously it solves nothing; we need more CB Prizes and much better breeding with multiclutches ideally for the top few gen of Prizes to even make things feel a little better, as the relative few Prizes among however many thousand fanatic dragon collectors couldn't even begin to supply the community with anything close to the demand for 2nd gens in I forget how long Cyradis calculated it to be. (A hundred years? something unrealistic for most to hope for in their life-times, at any rate, even if they could catch the mass quantities of next-most valuable dragons typically offered.)

 

 

Perhaps the artist doesn't want recoloured Tinsels, but that shouldn't stop the suggestion of recoloured Shimmer sprites obligingly done by their artist.

 

If the community is going to be stopped from having nice things because of complaints, DC might as well shut down, lol.

 

Complaints matter when they indicate a problem, but shouldn't prevent a happy-making fun thing for the community at a time of celebration because something else that would have been nice to go with it isn't possible.

[Millie_Azure]

I would just like to point out that if you're participating in the Holiday event around Christmas (or whatever holiday you may celebrate), and I mean the ENTIRE event, you're already getting a new dragon. There's already a new dragon for everyone every single year. It's the new holiday dragon that's released and dropped for three days. Why do we need TWO new dragons every winter holiday?

[AnanoKimi]

Because its either a prize for everyone or something else to distract them for a few days.

 

I do not encourage this idea, it still seems like we are trying to just add more, and more, and more to something that is already chock full of options. 1st-3rd prizes/HM options for those winners, HMs can pick almost anything from within the cave and some past holidays, holiday releases/normal releases, and if added in a participation prize for everybody. This is really starting to feel really cluttered and it feels like people are getting handed more than they can deal with.

 

I say we just stick to the plain 1st - 3rd place and HM prizes already given out. I mean this is feeling like way too much and really if you didn't win and don;t want to participate that is your loss because you will miss out on a chance to win an actual prize breed. I am against this quite a bit.