ANSWERED:bring back cb prizes

[HeatherMarie]

I don't want raffles/lottos. I don't care how often they are done, it would still be a *tiny* percentage of users who would win. And whoever doesn't win has *no* other way of getting them. It's not fair.

[Fuzzbucket]

I don't want raffles/lottos. I don't care how often they are done, it would still be a *tiny* percentage of users who would win. And whoever doesn't win has *no* other way of getting them. It's not fair.

I agree. And to those who say random IS fair - well, if I enter for a raffle for a Christmas hamper and don't win (mem: must phone my mother's care home to see if I DID win, come to think of it...) I can go out there and buy one. I may need to save up, but it can be done. With tins and shimmers - no. That's the unfair side of it. The no other way thing.

[Pokemonfan13]

So new raffles wouldn't even work if the numbers were increased? I mean, that's my mental picture of new raffles. With a total of at least a thousand prize dragons handed out each year, ideally more than that. Possibly it would be spread out into a few smaller raffles rather than one giant one. The CBs would still be on the rare side in the population, but there would be enough of them to make 2nd gens a bit easier to obtain, with more coming. Ideally the raffle would include some HM winners too, since those are fun.

 

Combine that with a little bit of code that would prevent a prize winner from winning another prize (since without it you are basically guaranteed to have a duplicate name drawn sooner or later), and I think you would have a decently fair system of handing out more prizes that doesn't make them "too common", at least not right away. (not that I agree that just giving one to everyone who participates in something is a bad thing, but other people are saying that they shouldn't be that common)

[Dianacat777]

So new raffles wouldn't even work if the numbers were increased?  I mean, that's my mental picture of new raffles.  With a total of at least a thousand prize dragons handed out each year, ideally more than that.  Possibly it would be spread out into a few smaller raffles rather than one giant one.  The CBs would still be on the rare side in the population, but there would be enough of them to make 2nd gens a bit easier to obtain, with more coming.  Ideally the raffle would include some HM winners too, since those are fun.

 

Combine that with a little bit of code that would prevent a prize winner from winning another prize (since without it you are basically guaranteed to have a duplicate name drawn sooner or later), and I think you would have a decently fair system of handing out more prizes that doesn't make them "too common", at least not right away.  (not that I agree that just giving one to everyone who participates in something is a bad thing, but other people are saying that they shouldn't be that common)

I'm game with this if it's a case of several smaller raffles instead of one giant yearly one. Just, something that's more fruitful than past raffles, and with a higher frequency, so people who don't win can always hope for 'next week' or 'next month' instead of extreme discouragement/flying into a rage.

 

The way I see it - though perhaps the userbase will prove me wrong - higher frequency decreases the impact of each individual raffle, and keeps the next one in sight. As long as you keep that feeling of 'never ever being able to win' away, the whining decreases drastically.

 

...Perhaps there could be a blacklist for bad behavior, beginning with new raffles. Harass winners, throw a fit about the results? Lose the ability to win in the future, either for a set period of time or permanently. Could be a decent incentive for people to keep their mouths shut.

 

Though it would be a pain for TJ to oversee, since it's a case-by-case basis of reports and he-said-she-saids. Moderator access, maybe? But even without that workload problem, assuming a certain threshold of bad behavior (accurately) automagically adds you to a blacklist, it could just as easily be a terrible idea, with people not understanding their behavior is in fact abysmal, and then getting extremely butthurt over never being able to win, or complaining what they did wasn't worth the ban. Given that the subset of the population affected is the one most inclined to act out... probably not worth the workload. It'll prevent some from ever making a nuisance of themselves, but the ones it doesn't stop will be even worse than they were before.

 

Don't mind me, just braining aloud. Maybe there's a way to make a bad-behavior deterrent work.

Edited January 12, 2017 by Dianacat777

[Fiona]

I do think the raffles could be reworked to be more fair and less drama-provoking. I agree with PF13 that more often would help. If you don't win at first there's always the next one only X weeks away. Rather than coding it so one can only win once I think it might be better to code it so one can't win twice in 2 years or some such. And if HM is allowed maybe restrict it to holiday breeds. Any holiday breed, not just Christmas. He did after all say that getting CB of hybrids and alts should not be a regular thing.

 

I'd like to see an increase in numbers too, if TJ is willing. 1000 would still keep them rare and "prize-ish" while being a number easier to swallow for the users. Plus, nix the special codes so TJ can automate giving them out more. And if a prize goes unclaimed then dump it to the AP rather than just having less given out. Fishing one of those out of the AP would be pretty exciting, right?

[olympe]

I'd still hate raffles if they happened every single day. I just abhor luck-based systems. Giving me more of them won't make me any more happy than I'm now.

 

Adding a blacklist is a very bad idea, too. Some people can be provoked and then speak out (or write a post) in anger - and that might disqualify them from ever winning? At the same time, I've seen a lot of attitude from some (few) prize winners, who would then be able to spread their venom even more, and without having to keep their tempers in check for fear of losing any chance of ever winning, since they already have done so. Not exactly something I'm fond of. As a matter of fact, if such a system gets introduced, I'd probably leave the forums because of the sheer unfairness of it.

 

I feel I have to re-iterate that I'd rather be able to work towards the goal of achieving a CB tinsel or shimmer with a guarantee that, eventually I will have one than have that infamous snowball's chance in hell to actually win one. Maybe today, maybe tomorrow, maybe... I really being able to rely on something.

[Confused Cat]

There's a part of my brain that keeps saying "I'm fine with raffles", and then I realize it secretly adds "... as long as I'm going to be one of the winners, of course, but that's pretty much guaranteed anyway because I'm the center of the universe, right?".

 

(Throw stones at me if your brain doesn't have any irrational parts! )

 

And that's why I'm not fine with raffles when the rational part of my brain is in control.

The majority of players will be "non-winners". The raffle system is the worst option for non-winners because it not only makes it impossible to "earn" a CB Prize, but it also keeps the trading prices for 2nd gens on "2nd gen swap" levels. That's like "not winning = losing doubly".

That's no fun.

 

 

If raffles were re-introduced, I hope there would not be an absolute number of Prizes, but rather a percentage of participants. Like 10% for monthly raffles, or 5% for weekly raffles.

But even then, some players could participate for years and never win, because that's how probability works.

I don't know all the details of the store idea, but it does sound better than raffles.

 

Or just release them in the cave and make them so common they become blockers after a month. (I know, I know, they'd have to be as common as ten of the current blocker breeds combined for this to work. But I imagine it would stop all the Prize-related drama...)

[Amazon_warrior]

And if a prize goes unclaimed then dump it to the AP rather than just having less given out. Fishing one of those out of the AP would be pretty exciting, right?

I can confirm this to be the case.

[Jazeki]

So new raffles wouldn't even work if the numbers were increased? I mean, that's my mental picture of new raffles. With a total of at least a thousand prize dragons handed out each year, ideally more than that. Possibly it would be spread out into a few smaller raffles rather than one giant one. The CBs would still be on the rare side in the population, but there would be enough of them to make 2nd gens a bit easier to obtain, with more coming. Ideally the raffle would include some HM winners too, since those are fun.

 

Combine that with a little bit of code that would prevent a prize winner from winning another prize (since without it you are basically guaranteed to have a duplicate name drawn sooner or later), and I think you would have a decently fair system of handing out more prizes that doesn't make them "too common", at least not right away. (not that I agree that just giving one to everyone who participates in something is a bad thing, but other people are saying that they shouldn't be that common)

If we must do this, then I think something must be in place that a winner doesn't win another of that color prize/type of prize. So if they win a bronze tinsel, they can enter again, but can never win a bronze tinsel again.

[Fiona]

I can confirm this to be the case.

I was thinking of you when I wrote that.

[Fuzzbucket]

There's a part of my brain that keeps saying "I'm fine with raffles", and then I realize it secretly adds "... as long as I'm going to be one of the winners, of course, but that's pretty much guaranteed anyway because I'm the center of the universe, right?".

 

(Throw stones at me if your brain doesn't have any irrational parts! )

 

And that's why I'm not fine with raffles when the rational part of my brain is in control.

The majority of players will be "non-winners". The raffle system is the worst option for non-winners because it not only makes it impossible to "earn" a CB Prize, but it also keeps the trading prices for 2nd gens on "2nd gen swap" levels. That's like "not winning = losing doubly".

That's no fun.

 

 

If raffles were re-introduced, I hope there would not be an absolute number of Prizes, but rather a percentage of participants. Like 10% for monthly raffles, or 5% for weekly raffles.

But even then, some players could participate for years and never win, because that's how probability works.

I don't know all the details of the store idea, but it does sound better than raffles.

This exactly.

 

And to Pokemonfan13 - all very well - but inevitably a shedload of prizes will go to people who actually don't care. If they are able to be worked for, they will go to people who CARE VERY MUCH, who care enough to put in the legwork.

[SullenCat]

Frankly, I oppose most of the suggestions about CB Prizes because those suggestions would preserve the "specialness" and I hate that by now. The "specialness" lasted years and years, that's enough. That's why I would just prefer to have them dropping in the cave as commons so everybody can get them, breed them and create lineages with them.

[blockEdragon]

Why should older users get special treatment? Everyone should have equal chances of winning.

Edited January 12, 2017 by blockEdragon

[Fuzzbucket]

Why should older users get special treatment? Everyone should have equal chances of winning.

I absolutely agree with you. I CAN see POSSIBLY something connected with trophy level, but certainly no more than that.

 

WAIT - I'm 72. Yes, older players should get one AT ONCE.

Edited January 12, 2017 by fuzzbucket

[Dianacat777]

If there were to be some... clause, or mechanic, favoring some users over others, I would hope it would be activity rather than account age. And at that point, you're sort of drifting into Store territory. Which I'm also not at all opposed to.

 

Adding a blacklist is a very bad idea, too. Some people can be provoked and then speak out (or write a post) in anger - and that might disqualify them from ever winning?

I'm not disagreeing that a blacklist, at least in the form I suggested it, would only exacerbate the drama that already surrounds raffles (and I hadn't even considered the sore winners, whoops), but 'being provoked' to behave horribly towards other users isn't an excuse for behaving horribly unless the provocation is personal and direct. Which, in a lot of these cases, it really wasn't. If you can't lose gracefully and feel the need to lash out at others when you don't get your way, you need an attitude adjustment if you want to continue existing in a community. It's not acceptable behavior - having a bad day or having your hopes dashed isn't an excuse to attack people who are more fortunate than you. As social creatures, it's necessary to moderate our behavior and not act on every irrational impulse and injustice we feel. It's the DC community's collective inability to do this during the raffles that caused the current This Is Why We Can't Have Nice Things situation. Plenty of other sites have raffles that go across just fine. I'm guessing the difference between those places and here is that raffled things were, while very difficult to obtain, still obtainable in other ways, because I don't think this community is inherently immature, but we've shown consistently terrible behavior in this situation. And I'm really not fond of hearing justifications for the people that turned this situation so foul.

 

Granted, 'provoked' can mean a lot of things. Being provoked by another user being a jerk is understandable, but then implies the fault is largely on the user who started it. Blame for who escalated and who meant what and who could have walked away is always a case-by-case thing, but the point I want to make is this: being provoked to anger simply because you haven't won and you feel it's unfair, and then taking that anger out on others, is just immaturity and not excusable in any way. I apologize if that's not what you meant; we might just be on different pages here.

 

So... yeah, I don't think there's anything morally wrong with punishing people in this situation, as long as it can be reasonably held that their actions were unacceptable. The problem as I see it is that it partially exacerbates the situation it's trying to solve and adds administrative workload, not that it's unfair. Actions have consequences.

 

(Also... I was using 'you' in the general address, not you personally. Absolutely not accusing you of anything, Fuzzbucket. D: )

Edited January 13, 2017 by Dianacat777

[PrincessLucy]

I absolutely agree with you. I CAN see POSSIBLY something connected with trophy level, but certainly no more than that.

 

WAIT - I'm 72. Yes, older players should get one AT ONCE.

I would like some connection to trophy level (and a platinum trophy too), and...ummm...I am 56, so do I count as old too? I certainly feel old, and I've been playing for many years.

[Imzadi]

I absolutely agree with you. I CAN see POSSIBLY something connected with trophy level, but certainly no more than that.

 

WAIT - I'm 72. Yes, older players should get one AT ONCE.

I am a bit behind you, but yes, just plop a gold tinsel on my scroll right now.

[SullenCat]

I am a bit behind you, but yes, just plop a gold tinsel on my scroll right now.

I've a proposal: if you are a member of AARP or equivalent in your country (is that 55+ years young?) you just get 6 CB eggs (Gold, Silver, Bronze Tinsel; Gold, Silver, Bronze Shimmer) right now.

I will not be able to qualify for a couple of decades but I love the idea.

[Obscure_Trash]

Alright, alright. I think we're starting to get off-topic with this whole age thing. ^^

[HeatherMarie]

There's a part of my brain that keeps saying "I'm fine with raffles", and then I realize it secretly adds "... as long as I'm going to be one of the winners, of course, but that's pretty much guaranteed anyway because I'm the center of the universe, right?".

 

(Throw stones at me if your brain doesn't have any irrational parts! )

 

And that's why I'm not fine with raffles when the rational part of my brain is in control.

The majority of players will be "non-winners". The raffle system is the worst option for non-winners because it not only makes it impossible to "earn" a CB Prize, but it also keeps the trading prices for 2nd gens on "2nd gen swap" levels. That's like "not winning = losing doubly".

That's no fun.

 

 

If raffles were re-introduced, I hope there would not be an absolute number of Prizes, but rather a percentage of participants. Like 10% for monthly raffles, or 5% for weekly raffles.

But even then, some players could participate for years and never win, because that's how probability works.

I don't know all the details of the store idea, but it does sound better than raffles.

 

Or just release them in the cave and make them so common they become blockers after a month. (I know, I know, they'd have to be as common as ten of the current blocker breeds combined for this to work. But I imagine it would stop all the Prize-related drama...)

This.

 

Raffles by themselves simply create losers and winners. The winners are happy and love the idea of the raffles. The losers, not so much. No matter how many raffles there are, there will still be people who just never win. And they have *no other way* of getting CBs, which is simply not fair.

[Dianacat777]

I'm pretty sure that making prizes super common would indeed create more drama, in the form of 'I traded my arm, leg, and soul for a 2nd gen and now they're absolutely everywhere, this isn't fair, how was I supposed to know.' Anything done is best done gradually.

[Fuzzbucket]

And they have *no other way* of getting CBs, which is simply not fair.

Again - THIS is the absolute killer.

 

I'm pretty sure that making prizes super common would indeed create more drama, in the form of 'I traded my arm, leg, and soul for a 2nd gen and now they're absolutely everywhere, this isn't fair, how was I supposed to know.' Anything done is best done gradually.

 

I - don't care. You weren't "supposed to know". Things can change. I seem to recall owners of HM frills weren't silly like that. Some people suggested that they should be compensated when we all asked for frills to come back - but when they did I didn't see a single HM owner screaming no fair. A few people have been miffed since the holiday limit was removed, as they had frozen CB hatchies under the old system, but that;s all, and is kind of a different issue.

Edited January 13, 2017 by fuzzbucket

[Jazeki]

I'm pretty sure that making prizes super common would indeed create more drama, in the form of 'I traded my arm, leg, and soul for a 2nd gen and now they're absolutely everywhere, this isn't fair, how was I supposed to know.' Anything done is best done gradually.

Well, I traded an arm and a leg at the time for several high gen dragons when prizes first came out and most prizes above third gen aren't worth much now. I certainly wouldn't be causing any drama if really low gens became common.

[olympe]

Granted, 'provoked' can mean a lot of things. Being provoked by another user being a jerk is understandable, but then implies the fault is largely on the user who started it. Blame for who escalated and who meant what and who could have walked away is always a case-by-case thing, but the point I want to make is this: being provoked to anger simply because you haven't won and you feel it's unfair, and then taking that anger out on others, is just immaturity and not excusable in any way. I apologize if that's not what you meant; we might just be on different pages here.

No, that's absolutely not what I meant. The situation where I got carried away and "called out other users" for their, in my opinion, very bad behavior was when two prize winners badmouthed and ridiculed all non-winners across several pages of a thread, with them arguing back and forth about how great they were and how awful the evil non-winners who didn't like the raffle - and nobody put a stop to it. It's true that I got warned for "calling out other users", but that's the one warn I got that really was worth it. Because suddenly, the offensive posts got edited, too. However, if your blacklist idea got implemented, I might have lost any chance of ever winning.

 

Yes, actions do have consequences. But forum actions should have forum consequences, not game consequences. I shouldn't get my scroll burned if I reach a warn level of 100% on the forums, and I shouldn't be banned from the forums if I break the rules of Dragon Cave (unless I spread my rule-breaking activity through the forum, which is a whole different can of worms).

 

Btw, I'm not fuzzbucket.

[Robot Chimera]

I - don't care.  You weren't "supposed to know". Things can change. I seem to recall owners of HM frills weren't silly like that. Some people suggested that they should be compensated when we all asked for frills to come back - but when they did I didn't see a single HM owner screaming  no fair.  A few people have been miffed since the holiday limit was removed, as they had frozen CB hatchies under the old system, but that;s all, and is kind of a different issue.

You may not care, but most people would like to avoid more drama and bring back CB prizes in a reasonable manner. And not all HM winners are still even active, nor do all of them browse the forums constantly.

 

If everyone's going to just "not care" about drama, we might as well bring back the raffles.

Edited January 13, 2017 by Robot Chimera