ANSWERED:bring back cb prizes

[Paradisiske]

I really hate the idea of being forced to collect dragons. Basically, you are telling me that, willingly or not, I should change my play-style and grind away to get 2000 or more dragons. No, thank you. Just find a way that respects different styles. That's not it.

event completion for each year can get a person 3 cb prizes of their choice and respects all playing styles imo

[Obscure_Trash]

Though I will say, I have never seen a checker linage with prize dragons because they're so rare you can't even lineage build with them.

*coughs*

 

~

 

I know I commented on it, but I do agree that simply tying to trophy isn't really my preferred way, although it would be a quick way to get cbs to people, since many of us already have trophies. =p

[Dragon_Arbock]

Okay, now I've seen one, not counting the purposely inbred ones.

 

But maybe a combination of methods? I do like the idea of getting one for participating though.

[SullenCat]

event completion for each year can get a person 3 cb prizes of their choice and respects all playing styles imo

I do not have a problem with that suggestion. Instead, I disagree with the idea, suggested by someone else, that everybody should "grind" and collect thousandS of dragons, whatever their own scroll goals are.

ETA: can't type.

Edited January 14, 2017 by SullenCat

[Pokemonfan13]

There seems to be a funny thing going on with people wanting prizes to be available to people, but to continue to hold their trade value as 2nd gens. I'm sorry, but you have to choose one of the other. If everyone has the chance to have CB prizes then a lot of the value of 2nd gens will be swaps for lineage building, even if people only have one or two prizes each. People will be able to breed their own 2nd gen prize, so of course they won't be worth a CB gold.

 

To have the 2nd gens hold their value at all you basically have to continue the raffle system, where only a percentage of the population will have them. If that's the case, you will probably be one of the people left out in the cold, only able to own 2nd gens. Because even with more raffles, 2nd gens will only retain their super trade value if the prize winners are a relatively low percentage of the population. And that means each individual person is probably not going to be a winner.

 

Think about what 2nd gens have value. 2nd gen prizes and hollies do because they have so few sources. 2nd gen golds and silvers have some value, and that's mostly because producing them can be difficult, with weeks or months of breeding going into one shiny egg, combined with the fact that a portion of the population doesn't have many or any CBs. (so in that respect, a 2nd gen prize from common might be valuable like a 2nd gen gold from common if the prizes are spread evenly, with only a handful per person, but that's not super trade value level) Most everything else does not have general strong trade value because the CBs are more available and 2nd gens are easier to produce.

 

So each and every one of us needs to decide. Do you want prizes as cash machines, where the lucky few get rich and the rest get 2nd gens and above? (and in that case, you should view that while assuming that you are not going to be a winner, since that is far more likely) Or do you want prizes that everyone can eventually own and build their own lineages with? You can't have both.

 

I've made it clear that I fall into the camp of wanting them available as CBs for collection and lineage building, ideally handed out in a controlled way to those who have earned them in some way. So what I like the best is the store or some variation on earning them for completing holiday events.

[Dragon_Arbock]

I do not have a problem with that suggestion. Instead, I disagree with the idea, suggested by someone else, that everybody should "grind" and collect thousandS of dragons, whatever their own scroll goals are.

ETA: can't type.

This is kinda funny to me though.. because if the store idea gets implemented, the only way to earn things for the store will be to raise a lot of dragons, breed a lot of dragons, or use a lot of BSAs- either way, things that involve having a lot of dragons.

People with very small scroll goals are left out either way.

[Pokemonfan13]

With the store, I can easily play to earn points without raising a single dragon that I don't want to. I might end up doing more than I do now, but it does not force me to raise adult dragons. I would probably do a combination of catching an egg from the cave (1 point each) and abandoning it later, and hatching and then abandoning AP eggs (1 point for catching it, 1 for hatching it, 1 for incubate, 1 for influence). I might also use fertility (1 point) and then breed (1 point), then abandon the egg to the AP for others. I can get my limit in points using those various actions over the week without raising a single dragon I don't want to adulthood. There's also the possibility of raising dragons and then releasing the adults to the wilderness, which leaves my scroll uncluttered.

 

The problem with a straight dragon hoarding = prizes system is there is absolutely no room for alternate play styles that don't include amassing giant hoards of dragons. You either raise lots of dragons to adulthood and keep them or you get nothing.

Edited January 15, 2017 by Pokemonfan13

[Robot Chimera]

There seems to be a funny thing going on with people wanting prizes to be available to people, but to continue to hold their trade value as 2nd gens.  I'm sorry, but you have to choose one of the other.  If everyone has the chance to have CB prizes then a lot of the value of 2nd gens will be swaps for lineage building, even if people only have one or two prizes each.  People will be able to breed their own 2nd gen prize, so of course they won't be worth a CB gold.

 

To have the 2nd gens hold their value at all you basically have to continue the raffle system, where only a percentage of the population will have them.  If that's the case, you will probably be one of the people left out in the cold, only able to own 2nd gens.  Because even with more raffles, 2nd gens will only retain their super trade value if the prize winners are a relatively low percentage of the population.  And that means each individual person is probably not going to be a winner.

 

Think about what 2nd gens have value.  2nd gen prizes and hollies do because they have so few sources.  2nd gen golds and silvers have some value, and that's mostly because producing them can be difficult, with weeks or months of breeding going into one shiny egg, combined with the fact that a portion of the population doesn't have many or any CBs.  (so in that respect, a 2nd gen prize from common might be valuable like a 2nd gen gold from common if the prizes are spread evenly, with only a handful per person, but that's not super trade value level)  Most everything else does not have general strong trade value because the CBs are more available and 2nd gens are easier to produce.

 

So each and every one of us needs to decide.  Do you want prizes as cash machines, where the lucky few get rich and the rest get 2nd gens and above? (and in that case, you should view that while assuming that you are not going to be a winner, since that is far more likely)  Or do you want prizes that everyone can eventually own and build their own lineages with?  You can't have both.

 

I've made it clear that I fall into the camp of wanting them available as CBs for collection and lineage building, ideally handed out in a controlled way to those who have earned them in some way.  So what I like the best is the store or some variation on earning them for completing holiday events.

It may be hard, but not everything needs to be black and white. Keeping CB prizes at a high enough value (at the same as CB golds or CB holidays) would prevent them from becoming ENTIRELY worthless. Something as simple as "save up for a year" in the store, or "holiday event" would make CBs available but not turn 2Gs into something you could trade a 42g inbred mint hatchling for.

I am not saying make 2G prizes the same value as CB golds. I'm saying keep 2G prizes from becoming the new 2G "mildly rare".

 

2Gs of Silvers and Golds are still pretty worthwhile in trades, almost worth a CB copper by themselves if they have the right lineages.

 

 

This is kinda funny to me though.. because if the store idea gets implemented, the only way to earn things for the store will be to raise a lot of dragons, breed a lot of dragons, or use a lot of BSAs- either way, things that involve having a lot of dragons.

People with very small scroll goals are left out either way.

This too.

Edited January 15, 2017 by Robot Chimera

[SullenCat]

This is kinda funny to me though.. because if the store idea gets implemented, the only way to earn things for the store will be to raise a lot of dragons, breed a lot of dragons, or use a lot of BSAs- either way, things that involve having a lot of dragons.

People with very small scroll goals are left out either way.

I was going to reply but PF13 said almost everything I wanted to say.

In case is not clear, I do not have a problem breeding or hatching for others. I just do not want a gigantic scroll. Let's say that I'm selective and I only want specific breeds and almost only CBs.

ETA: maybe you should read the store thread...

-Some actions have a limit to how many times they can be applied towards the "weekly" goal. (specifically how many points can be earned from breeding and raising dragons during the 8 day window)

I get to use my cap on whatever way I choose to. Hoarding adults is not my choice.

Edited January 15, 2017 by SullenCat

[Pokemonfan13]

Making them take longer in the store might keep the 2nd gen value higher for longer, but it would eventually go well below CB gold values as more people take the time to save up and buy them.

[aussieJJDude]

Maybe if this came out with the platinum trophy - or even the gold now, since platinum might not happen ever - once you hit platinum, you either get to choose your CB prize colour/breed or one in randomly assigned to you. Everyone then has the access to a prize if they collect and build hard enough, and keeps them as a "prize".

You managed to upgrade to a new trophy, here is a prize?

[Robot Chimera]

Making them take longer in the store might keep the 2nd gen value higher for longer, but it would eventually go well below CB gold values as more people take the time to save up and buy them.

I am not saying make 2G prizes the same value as CB golds. I'm saying keep 2G prizes from becoming the new 2G "mildly rare".

 

Having the CBs be at the same value in the store would mean people would not assume the assigned value to CB prize is the same as CB copper. Same with 2nd gens. If you are assigning an exact value to every dragon on DC with the store, expect people to go by those values.

 

Making them 2:1 CB golds would keep them valuable enough for a player to obtain around once a year - same as the holiday event suggestion.

Edited January 15, 2017 by Robot Chimera

[blockEdragon]

I really hate the idea of being forced to collect dragons. Basically, you are telling me that, willingly or not, I should change my play-style and grind away to get 2000 or more dragons. No, thank you. Just find a way that respects different styles. That's not it.

alright then im one who loves an optional array of optional options

 

Maybe they could do all three,

the store, trophies, and holiday events

trophies and holiday events would give out CBs for free, but the store could be a way of earning them if you still want more.

Edited January 15, 2017 by blockEdragon

[Dragon_Arbock]

I did read the store thread- I just assume having a lot of dragons to breed (and by extension raising more to breed) would be easier for most people, but make things harder for those who don't want to have many dragons. Also, there are probably people out there who don't like breeding there dragons for no reason- they may only breed them for projects, or not at all.

I don't have a problem with breeding or hoarding, but if someone doesn't collect a lot, and doesn't breed a lot, then they're really only left with hatching AP stuff and throwing them back, or releasing grown dragons they didn't want to raise.

 

(edit for spelling)

Edited January 15, 2017 by Dragon_Arbock

[Jazeki]

It may be hard, but not everything needs to be black and white. Keeping CB prizes at a high enough value (at the same as CB golds or CB holidays) would prevent them from becoming ENTIRELY worthless. Something as simple as "save up for a year" in the store, or "holiday event" would make CBs available but not turn 2Gs into something you could trade a 42g inbred mint hatchling for.

I am not saying make 2G prizes the same value as CB golds. I'm saying keep 2G prizes from becoming the new 2G "mildly rare".

 

2Gs of Silvers and Golds are still pretty worthwhile in trades, almost worth a CB copper by themselves if they have the right lineages.

 

 

 

This too.

Can you explain your aversion to them being mildly rare? Also, you seem to want to dictate what these things will/do trade for.

 

Everyone's trading experiences are different. I've gotten CB coppers for 2nd gen metals and I've given away 2nd gen metals and holidays for free, for example. Also, maybe someone wants a 42nd gen inbred mint for their shiny.

 

I know you want them to be hard to work for, but can you explain the reasoning beyond that's what they are worth now (because less than 1 % of the people have them) and they should stay that way?

Edited January 15, 2017 by Jazeki

[SullenCat]

 

Having the CBs be at the same value in the store would mean people would not assume the assigned value to CB prize is the same as CB copper. Same with 2nd gens. If you are assigning an exact value to every dragon on DC with the store, expect people to go by those values.

 

Making them 2:1 CB golds would keep them valuable enough for a player to obtain around once a year - same as the holiday event suggestion.

And why exactly should they be rare? Are you trying to "preserve" trading/market value, the exact same thing that has been annoying many of us? Why?

[Pokemonfan13]

Making them 2:1 CB golds would keep them valuable enough for a player to obtain around once a year - same as the holiday event suggestion.

Except it's not actually the same as earning them through holiday events. In the store, there's a lot other than CB prizes to spend your points on. So most people would not actually be getting one per year. They would be also spending their points on CB golds and silvers and CB holidays and other things that they want, and might average a prize every year and a half to to years or more in reality. Only those truly dedicated to prizes and abstaining from everything else would have one per year if the price is set at a year's worth of points. Earning them through holiday events, it's one per year, period. Unless the person doesn't care enough about prizes to bother completing the events, but then they don't want the prize.

 

The one every 4-5 months price already in the store would probably end up being one prize per year for most people. Some would end up with 3 a year because they decide they want to focus on prizes, but the rest would be too torn between everything else available and split their points between various things. Remember that the person who gets 3 prizes in a year is choosing to NOT get a CB holly.

Edited January 15, 2017 by Pokemonfan13

[Robot Chimera]

Ah yes, let me respond to all the people bashing me because I disagree with the store. Give me a moment, this is going to be long.

 

 

Can you explain your aversion to them being mildly rare? Also, you seem to want to dictate what these things will/do trade for.

 

Everyone's trading experiences are different. I've gotten CB coppers for 2nd gen metals and I've given away 2nd gen metals and holidays for free, for example. Also, maybe someone wants a 42nd gen inbred mint for their shiny.

 

I know you want them to be hard to work for, but can you explain the reasoning beyond that's what they are worth now (because less than 1 % of the people have them) and they should stay that way?

Because they were intended to be rare, not common. Why do YOU want them to be devalued to the point they are nearly worthless?

 

Some people trade CB golds for 2 rare hatchlings. Some people want NDs or 8 CB silvers or 800 CB red gemshards. Some people trade 2G spriters alt offspring for a few uncommon hatchlings. Some people even give rares out for free just because they want to. If someone wants a common for their rare, that's up to them. Maybe they want a 42g inbred mint hatchling, and that's ok. But what you seem to want is for 2G prizes to become something you can ONLY trade for a messy hatchling, unless someone wants to offer a "rare for your common".

 

And if you don't want people dictating the exact values on dragons, why support the store? The store will outline exactly "how much is this dragon worth" by it's price in the store. Yes, people will spend whatever these virtual "credits" are on other things, but unless they are available during a limited period or get retired or something, they will see the value that way.

 

And no, I don't think the 1% should have everything. But if 100% of the users have it, and anyone can get as many as they want with only a few months of work, then it's no longer anything special or worthwhile.

 

I nearly squealed when I got my first CB silver. Why? Because it was something I wanted that I knew would take a lot to get, something that wouldn't just be "guaranteed in 4 months".

 

 

Except it's not actually the same as earning them through holiday events.  In the store, there's a lot other than CB prizes to spend your points on.  So most people would not actually be getting one per year.  They would be also spending their points on CB golds and silvers and CB holidays and other things that they want, and might average a prize every year and a half to to years in reality.

 

You ignored the other point of my argument - that assigning exact values to dragons will make people believe that is their exact trade value.

 

Only those truly dedicated to prizes and abstaining from everything else would have one per year if the price is set at a year's worth of points.

 

Right. And that's the same for CB Golds, unless you either have insane reflexes at 3AM or break the TOS. If you implement them like that, you will have people who want CB golds saving up for a whole year as well.

 

Can you give me a reason why a CB prize should be valued significantly less than a CB gold, other than "golds drop in the cave"?

 

Making them 1:1 with CB golds seem reasonable. Why do they NEED to be devauled?

 

 

Earning them through holiday events, it's one per year, period.  Unless the person doesn't care enough about prizes to bother completing the events, but then they don't want the prize.

Which is why the holiday event would be better than the store in my opinion. If you actually bother playing, you get a CB prize. For those who have zero access to the game, possibly add in an alternative fix. It fits all playstyles fairly and does not give dragons an exact value.

 

 

 

And why exactly should they be rare? Are you trying to "preserve" trading/market value, the exact same thing that has been annoying many of us? Why?

Should TJ suddenly decide to make CB golds common because they are rare? Golds, like prizes, were designed with rarity in their intention.

The trading market is messed up, but messing it up further is not going to help.

[SullenCat]

Except it's not actually the same as earning them through holiday events. In the store, there's a lot other than CB prizes to spend your points on. So most people would not actually be getting one per year. They would be also spending their points on CB golds and silvers and CB holidays and other things that they want, and might average a prize every year and a half to to years or more in reality. Only those truly dedicated to prizes and abstaining from everything else would have one per year if the price is set at a year's worth of points. Earning them through holiday events, it's one per year, period. Unless the person doesn't care enough about prizes to bother completing the events, but then they don't want the prize.

 

The one every 4-5 months price already in the store would probably end up being one prize per year for most people. Some would end up with 3 a year because they decide they want to focus on prizes, but the rest would be too torn between everything else available and split their points between various things. Remember that the person who gets 3 prizes in a year is choosing to NOT get a CB holly.

Good points. I'm one of those that would choose a CB Holly every time vs a CB Tinsel or Shimmer. I wish...

[MissK.]

Can you give me a reason why a CB prize should be valued significantly less than a CB gold, other than "golds drop in the cave"?

 

Making them 1:1 with CB golds seem reasonable. Why do they NEED to be devauled?

Excuse me for butting in, I keep following this thread but don't really post. Here's my reason: in my experience, prizes breed significantly better than golds, and even silvers. Prizes are only considered rare because of the way they were distributed, and the only one I've had trouble getting shinies from is my CB (because of course it would be). I don't see why the population of CBs shouldn't at least match the rarity that their breeding results suggests.

[SullenCat]

Ah yes, let me respond to all the people bashing me because I disagree with the store. Give me a moment, this is going to be long.

 

 

 

Because they were intended to be rare, not common. Why do YOU want them to be devalued to the point they are nearly worthless?

 

Some people trade CB golds for 2 rare hatchlings. Some people want NDs or 8 CB silvers or 800 CB red gemshards. Some people trade 2G spriters alt offspring for a few uncommon hatchlings. Some people even give rares out for free just because they want to. If someone wants a common for their rare, that's up to them. Maybe they want a 42g inbred mint hatchling, and that's ok. But what you seem to want is for 2G prizes to become something you can ONLY trade for a messy hatchling, unless someone wants to offer a "rare for your common".

 

And if you don't want people dictating the exact values on dragons, why support the store? The store will outline exactly "how much is this dragon worth" by it's price in the store. Yes, people will spend whatever these virtual "credits" are on other things, but unless they are available during a limited period or get retired or something, they will see the value that way.

 

And no, I don't think the 1% should have everything. But if 100% of the users have it, and anyone can get as many as they want with only a few months of work, then it's no longer anything special or worthwhile.

 

I nearly squealed when I got my first CB silver. Why? Because it was something I wanted that I knew would take a lot to get, something that wouldn't just be "guaranteed in 4 months".

 

 

 

 

You ignored the other point of my argument - that assigning exact values to dragons will make people believe that is their exact trade value.

 

 

 

Right. And that's the same for CB Golds, unless you either have insane reflexes at 3AM or break the TOS. If you implement them like that, you will have people who want CB golds saving up for a whole year as well.

 

Can you give me a reason why a CB prize should be valued significantly less than a CB gold, other than "golds drop in the cave"?

 

Making them 1:1 with CB golds seem reasonable. Why do they NEED to be devauled?

 

 

 

Which is why the holiday event would be better than the store in my opinion. If you actually bother playing, you get a CB prize. For those who have zero access to the game, possibly add in an alternative fix. It fits all playstyles fairly and does not give dragons an exact value.

 

 

 

 

Should TJ suddenly decide to make CB golds common because they are rare? Golds, like prizes, were designed with rarity in their intention.

The trading market is messed up, but messing it up further is not going to help.

I don't really like multi-posting but...

 

Nobody is bashing you. Get real. People are disagreeing with you, nothing else.

 

Who said that Tinsels or Shimmers were intended to be rare? Compare the outcome of breeding Tinsels/Shimmers vs breeding Golds. Nope, not even close.

 

Again, why should Tinsels/Shimmers be "special" or "worthwhile"? They have been for quite a while, reason why the trading situation is a mess. There's no reason to keep it as it is.

 

Paraphrasing you, why shouldn't a CB Tinsel/Shimmer be valued significantly less than a CB Gold? CB Tinsels and Shimmers dropped on the laps of people that did nothing but to be lucky. CB Golds (and Silvers for that matter) take time, effort and lack of sleep to be caught.

 

Tinsels and Shimmers NEED to be devalued because, right now, they create a significant lack of balance on trading. Because their off-springs, obtained with little or no effort, somehow seem to be 3, 4, 10 times or more valuable than eggs that can't be caught without time and effort, CB Coppers, Silvers, Golds etc.

Edited January 15, 2017 by SullenCat

[Robot Chimera]

Excuse me for butting in, I keep following this thread but don't really post. Here's my reason: in my experience, prizes breed significantly better than golds, and even silvers. Prizes are only considered rare because of the way they were distributed, and the only one I've had trouble getting shinies from is my CB (because of course it would be). I don't see why the population of CBs shouldn't at least match the rarity that their breeding results suggests.

From what i've seen, it's extremely hard to get a Prize offspring from anything other than a holiday or rare dragon. So making them breed like CB golds/silvers would put even more of a hassle on anyone with a Prize, especially CB ones. (imagine trying to breed a gold from gold x common. It's not fun.)

 

It takes many attempts to get them and even then there's no guarantee. And with the limited amount of CB prizes originally intended for circulation would make it even harder to get 2Gs or 3Gs from them, not to mention prize owners would be swamped for requests.

[SullenCat]

From what i've seen, it's extremely hard to get a Prize offspring from anything other than a holiday or rare dragon. So making them breed like CB golds/silvers would put even more of a hassle on anyone with a Prize, especially CB ones. (imagine trying to breed a gold from gold x common. It's not fun.)

 

It takes many attempts to get them and even then there's no guarantee. And with the limited amount of CB prizes originally intended for circulation would make it even harder to get 2Gs or 3Gs from them, not to mention prize owners would be swamped for requests.

"Hassle on anyone with a Prize"??? Are you kidding? Someone with a Prize got a license to print DC currency. With zero effort.

Frankly I do not want the owners of CB Tinsel/Shimmers to be swamped. I want EVERYBODY that plays to be able to get something that a few got, due to dumb luck.

[Obscure_Trash]

Excuse me for butting in, I keep following this thread but don't really post. Here's my reason: in my experience, prizes breed significantly better than golds, and even silvers. Prizes are only considered rare because of the way they were distributed, and the only one I've had trouble getting shinies from is my CB (because of course it would be). I don't see why the population of CBs shouldn't at least match the rarity that their breeding results suggests.

Because cbs weren't meant to match the breeding population is the exact reason I personally think they should stay on the rarer side/not drop in the cave but be given through some manner of "earning" (though agree they do, at the very least, need to be made available in some manner...). Unfortunately - and this is a part of the... tense feeling of the thread at times imho - there's not really a good compromise between "cbs were meant to be rare so they should stay rare" and "they breed like commons so cbs should be available as commons" because there's just a fundamental and complete disagreement between the two sides. =x

Edited January 15, 2017 by SockPuppet Strangler

[Jazeki]

Ah yes, let me respond to all the people bashing me because I disagree with the store. Give me a moment, this is going to be long.

 

 

 

Because they were intended to be rare, not common. Why do YOU want them to be devalued to the point they are nearly worthless?

 

Some people trade CB golds for 2 rare hatchlings. Some people want NDs or 8 CB silvers or 800 CB red gemshards. Some people trade 2G spriters alt offspring for a few uncommon hatchlings. Some people even give rares out for free just because they want to. If someone wants a common for their rare, that's up to them. Maybe they want a 42g inbred mint hatchling, and that's ok. But what you seem to want is for 2G prizes to become something you can ONLY trade for a messy hatchling, unless someone wants to offer a "rare for your common".

 

And if you don't want people dictating the exact values on dragons, why support the store? The store will outline exactly "how much is this dragon worth" by it's price in the store. Yes, people will spend whatever these virtual "credits" are on other things, but unless they are available during a limited period or get retired or something, they will see the value that way.

 

And no, I don't think the 1% should have everything. But if 100% of the users have it, and anyone can get as many as they want with only a few months of work, then it's no longer anything special or worthwhile.

 

I nearly squealed when I got my first CB silver. Why? Because it was something I wanted that I knew would take a lot to get, something that wouldn't just be "guaranteed in 4 months".

 

 

 

 

I don't care if you support the store or not. My question had nothing to do with the store. It had to do with asking why you want them to be rare.

 

I don't care if they become "nearly worthless," but I also never said I want them that way. Do you know how many people play DC? Far too many for these dragons to ever be "nearly worthless." I think the term you want is "priceless" AKA "you can't put a price on them." They become "worthless" when you or someone else stops deciding to trade for them.

 

I don't want them to be "worth a messy hatching" or whatever you think the worth that I'm pinning on them is. I'd like them to be obtainable--not rare. Regardless of if these things end up in store, the store price is not the same as their trading price or whatever price users value them at. Also, these may be available to 100 percent of users at some point, but not every user will have them.

 

I happened to be very excited over my first CB silver too. She took me four years of playing to get (and I didn't catch her. I traded for her). Also, I don't think any of the "rare" dragons are guaranteed after 4 months of store activity.

Edited January 15, 2017 by Jazeki