2015-09-27 - Encyclopedia Update (and more)

[Marrionetta]

For those concerned, I wish to you to know the choice to update the art was carefully considered and will be done with respect.

 

We appreciate the opportunity to share our art with you, year after year. I count it among one of my greatest accomplishments to have contributed this site. Your kind words and praise have moved me, and I am so thankful this place exists. I know many of my fellow artists would echo this sentiment. It is exactly for these reasons that we endeavor to create for you the best possible updated sprites we can. We will not abuse your trust.

 

All we ask now is you afford us a little patience.

[Syphoneira]

For those concerned, I wish to you to know the choice to update the art was carefully considered and will be done with respect.

 

We appreciate the opportunity to share our art with you, year after year. I count it among one of my greatest accomplishments to have contributed this site. Your kind words and praise have moved me, and I am so thankful this place exists. I know many of my fellow artists would echo this sentiment. It is exactly for these reasons that we endeavor to create for you the best possible updated sprites we can. We will not abuse your trust.

 

All we ask now is you afford us a little patience.

 

 

 

We love and appreciate you guys and your art, it's just that we love some of the dragons - especially those we've had longest - a LOT, lol.

 

It's a pet-site - if anyone doesn't understand that people can get attached even to virtual pets, they haven't been watching very closely! ROFLMAO

[Cygnis]

Speaking of Halloween, when do the Halloween dragons start breeding? I can never remember and the calendar has not yet been updated.

 

I look forward to seeing what happens to the silvers. There's enough silver art around now, I'm sure we'll never forget the current ones.

[Tehya Faye]

The week leading up to Halloween, I believe.

[Clya]

I was just gifted my first Silver egg ever, and as I'm watching the silver hatchling hatch and grow up. I'm noticing more and more that these guys (at least the hatchlings) need an update. Yes I love love love the look of them now, but in comparison to other hatchling sprites that are sitting next to them on my scroll, I think they could use a bit of a shine.

[Yeronoco]

I'm really looking forward to seeing the new sprites. I hope Silvers will finally get as shiny as they should be. Now they look like Greys to me without any hint of rarity.

[djengis]

I'm excited for the new sprites. Especially the silvers

[Nectaris]

 

The continued responses of surprise, disbelief, and disappointment that anyone would be wary of an update to a very old and widely beloved sprite are repressive. You don't see responses from the wary saying "How can you be looking forward to something like this? Why would you want the sprite changed? How can you be happy about a sprite you haven't even seen yet?"

Quite bluntly, I DO feel there has been some of that going on. There has been something of an attitude of "if you want this updated, you must not care about the history of the site and don't care for older players feelings" and similar things.

[Tiki G]

For those concerned, I wish to you to know the choice to update the art was carefully considered and will be done with respect.

 

We appreciate the opportunity to share our art with you, year after year. I count it among one of my greatest accomplishments to have contributed this site. Your kind words and praise have moved me, and I am so thankful this place exists. I know many of my fellow artists would echo this sentiment. It is exactly for these reasons that we endeavor to create for you the best possible updated sprites we can. We will not abuse your trust.

 

All we ask now is you afford us a little patience.

Well said Marri, well said. <3

[cyradis4]

Quite bluntly, I DO feel there has been some of that going on.  There has been something of an attitude of "if you want this updated, you must not care about the history of the site and don't care for older players feelings" and similar things.

There's been quite a bit of both attitudes, I've seen, especially over the years. No one side has a monopoly on dissing the other side! I just wish people would realize that the site has little choice but to update the Silvers. I've known for years that this would have to come.

 

 

tl;dr

IF we had a much larger assortment of true rares available to everyone (CBs rare, breed like true rares), my opinion of changing the Silver sprite would be: don't change it. But since we have just ONE shiny metal rare that is available to everyone (to someone who isn't attached to the old Silver sprite for sentimental reasons), then the Silver change is needed and sadly over-due.

(explanation in the text wall below)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The good news? People care, on both sides of the fence. The bad news? There's going to be tons of drama and angst. I do wish we could choose to update the sprites on our scroll to new one / stay with old, seeing as how that would cut down on a lot of the drama, but I can understand why doing that with the Pinks (NOT a flagship breed) was acceptable, whereas doing that with Silvers (which *are* a Flagship breed) wouldn't even be considered.

 

So for me.... Updating the Silvers isn't just about the history of the site: its about the *Future* of the site. When your organization has a "flagship", its almost always the best you have, the absolute pinnacle your organization can offer. Same with anything rare: When someone is looking to join you, they first look at your flagship (the best you have) and then go from there. Silvers, being 1 of only TWO true Rares available to everyone, is a Flagship breed. They, and Golds, must show their best face for the good of the site, for the FUTURE of the site. What I find so frustrating, for myself, is that so many people don't realize this, in this thread and others.

 

If this site is to KEEP DELIVERING DRAGONS, and is going to keep the other Sprites they love, then the site must grow. If the site stagnates, it DIES. Which means, it needs new users as well as the old. And rares tend to be the focal point of most games. But DC's compliment of shiny rares is dismal.

 

So what does a new user see:

Rare Compliment:

Gold, Silver, and Bronze Tinsels: CBs heavily Restricted and Very hard to work with in even gen lineages

Gold, Silver, and Bronze Shimmers: CBs heavily Restricted and Very hard to work with in even gen lineages

Golds: Fantastic and shiny and worthy of the name "rare" and available to everyone (with enough effort)

Copper: Not shiny, breed like commons. Not true "rares"

Silvers: Dull, old sprite. not worthy of the cost of getting them. Takes a lot of effort for most to get them.

 

There are 9 "Shiny Rare Breeds" (counting Tinsel and Shimmer morphs as 1 each), and of those.... 6 are NOT available to the general public in CB version, 1 is only rare in CB version (and not shiny), and 1 (Silvers) isn't shiny and looks sadly dated.

 

That means, that for a newer user, the ONLY shiny sprite available to them for use in lineages that looks like it deserves the price tag they'll pay for it is Golds. That's *IT*. 9 "rare" metalics.... and just ONE, only ONE, is both worth the name "shiny metal" and available for everyone in CBs.

Edited October 1, 2015 by cyradis4

[angelicdragonpuppy]

Cyradis hit it on the head. I just hope in this case the new ones still retain much of the current pose and color for the sake of lineages, but otherwise I'm all up for it.

[Sir Barton]

Not that I care about rares and their price tag, but then wouldn't it be better to create more new rares instead of rehashing the old ones?

 

As the artists constantly improve every sprite will eventually need to be updated. If that would happen we would get no new dragons and no further reason to play the game.

 

Flaws add character. I, personally, find perfection boring. As long as a flaw doesn't effect function, it generally becomes an non-issue. The silvers have functioned just fine for years and have been well loved.

 

I'm happy for the people who are excited about the update, but personally, I would much prefer something new to add to my scroll instead of losing the dragons I've loved for nearly a decade. Yes, the sprite will be shiny and gorgeous, but it won't be the dragon I caught or was gifted.

[NoraNora]

Yay updates! *patiently waiting for the Halloween dragon's*

Do the Hallows start coming closer to Halloween or 😮

[Odeen]

As the artists constantly improve every sprite will eventually need to be updated. If that would happen we would get no new dragons and no further reason to play the game.

For the record, there is approximately zero danger of us artists never having time to make new concepts on account of updating old ones.

 

I can finish an entire basic sprite set (standard egg sequence, S1, no hatchling dimorphism, no adult dimorphism) starting from a blank canvas in under 8 hours. It takes more time for me to hash out the details of the breed (which I tend to do while working or grocery shopping or whatever else) than it does to actually make the dragon. I probably am on the fast side because I get bored if I don't sit down and do the thing, but still.

 

With updates, you've got the advantage of not having to think about the concept beyond what you need to in order to preserve it. Add that to the fact that not every sprite or sprite set is necessarily ever going to need updating (I know for a fact that the vast majority of sprites I made, I am unlikely to revisit because I am satisfied with what I accomplished at the time I made them). Not every sprite ages poorly. Not all of them age at the same rate.

 

So yeah just...don't worry about what artists will or won't have time to do. It's really not an issue.

[shadowfighter]

Yay updates! *patiently waiting for the Halloween dragon's*

Do the Hallows start coming closer to Halloween or 😮

Generally speaking, breeding for Halloween dragons opens three days before Halloween itself. Halloweens drop on Midnight of the day before Halloween, and breeding continues through to three days after Halloween.*

 

*This is the most common schedule, it does fluctuate, so it is not accurate 100% of the time.

Edited October 1, 2015 by shadowfighter

[littleblackdog]

Generally speaking, breeding for Halloween dragons opens three days before Halloween itself. Halloweens drop on Midnight of the day before Halloween, and breeding continues through to three days after Halloween.*

 

*This is the most common schedule, it does fluctuate, so it is bkt accurate 100% of the time.

Actually breeding is usually open for the week leading up to the new holiday dragon. That gives people lots of time to get old ones and be open for brand new ones. Breeding for older ones ends the same day new ones get released.

 

Last October: https://forums.dragcave.net/index.php?act=c...dar&m=10&y=2014

 

Last December: https://forums.dragcave.net/index.php?act=c...dar&m=12&y=2014

[shadowfighter]

Actually breeding is usually open for the week leading up to the new holiday dragon. That gives people lots of time to get old ones and be open for brand new ones. Breeding for older ones ends the same day new ones get released.

 

Last October: https://forums.dragcave.net/index.php?act=c...dar&m=10&y=2014

 

Last December: https://forums.dragcave.net/index.php?act=c...dar&m=12&y=2014

Huh, I thought it was open for a week total, three days before, the day of, and three days after... Okay then.

[NotBambi]

Not that I care about rares and their price tag, but then wouldn't it be better to create more new rares instead of rehashing the old ones?

Sigh. Unfortunately, several people that are now opposing the update of the Silver, have been forcefully opposing the creation of new rares.

[Fuzzbucket]

I'd say a more accurate way to put the analogy would be that someone would be replacing the old photos with recent, new pictures of the same people. The old pictures that hold the old memories are gone, but new ones of the same people would be in their place.

 

The silvers aren't being replaced with strange dragons that aren't silvers.

But you would REALLY want the photos of granny as a child back, not one of her digging up her vegetable patch at the age of 92. It would leave a whole big gap in your life and your history to lose her baby pix.

 

It isn't "hating on the new sprites" - it's worry about how they will look. I can live with genuine cleaning up - pose and colouring almost the same (as I said in the silvers thread - one or two of those mooted were OK - but some were just NOT SILVERS. Just as Granny at 92 is not granny as a baby. And as a replacement for a baby, the 92 year old would be VERY strange.

 

ETA but thanks Marri - just saw your post (I was a page back...) - I feel a little less apprehensive

 

ETA @NotBambi - actually rarity does not bother/interest me except in so far as I have trouble getting some of what I want and need. I just like DRAGONS. I shall be JUST as apprehensive if/when the reds are to be done over. I LOVE them as they are, too ! Iconic heavyweight traditional dragons YAY REDS

Edited October 1, 2015 by fuzzbucket

[AuraOfFloof]

I can see the update to the mobile site came! It looks great. Although, I can't see all the eggs in any given habitat, only two of 'em.

[shadowfighter]

I can see the update to the mobile site came! It looks great. Although, I can't see all the eggs in any given habitat, only two of 'em.

I don't think the update is here, I'm constantly using my phone for DC, and the layout and everything hasn't changed.

[HeatherMarie]

I'm not against change. Contrary to the tone of most of my posts in here, I'm really not against change. I'm against forced change that changes the very essence of the dragon. Like the golds. The golds were not just anatomy-updated or shading-updated, they turned into a completely different dragon. The golds that are on my scroll right now are *not* the golds I worked so hard to get. Likewise, the fact that TJ specified that the Christmas dragon will have small changes, and yet the silvers will have "all sprites updated", makes me think it's going to be a completely different sprite. I remember the sprites from that big Silver Update thread, and some of them were *completely* different then the Silvers of today.

 

In the end, I collect dragons because of their looks. I like the Silvers especially because of their unique poses. And I'm concerned that the update is going to take that away.

[Fiona]

I'd just like to point out that the old gold sprite had such broken anatomy that there really was no way to fix it without doing a whole new sprite. There was a whole thread discussing and trying it and the results were either a whole new pose or the same problems persisting. There's no reason to assume that will happen with the silvers. Their anatomy isn't that far off.

[Eos]

Thanks for the heads up, TJ! I can't wait to see the new male Horse although admittedly I will probably end getting confused because I always think of the current sprite as a boy. No idea why. Either way, can't wait to see it.

 

Also interested in seeing the other updates, and for the Halloween events!!!

[codyne]

I am sad about the upcoming change to the Silvers because I *do* know I won't like it. I prefer the style of the old dragons and I always have. I like the exaggerated poses, the little stylistic quirks that anatomy purists insist on calling "flaws", the simple colors, the lack of tiny fussy details that I can't make out unless I hold the laptop up to my face. My favorite dragons, after all these years, remain the Silvers, Grays, Blacks, Reds, Stones and such. I have long since given up on the idea that any of the new dragons will capture my fancy the way the old ones did, but I was content that at least I'd have my old favorites to collect and breed. Now it seems that the demand to update every single sprite is eventually going to take away all my favorites and replace them with slick shiny boring "perfect" dragons I no longer care about.

 

I don't really see the point of playing any more, when at any time my favorite dragons can be removed from my scroll and replaced with new-style sprites I don't want.