Holiday Rereleases

[olympe]

The cave itself does not HAVE ratios for these breeds, and any rarity is player imposed, so I see no need to them given a ratio (if in the separate biome). Yes, this means 2G value of the older holidays will drop rapidly, and yes, if people want to catch a hundred CB Shadow Walkers ( ), they would be able to. I think dropping them all as super commons for a couple of days would have almost no negative impact on the game itself. The trade market would be a different story as previously rare dragons become semi-common, but I don't actually see that as a bad thing. Also, the biome should move pretty well, since you wouldn't have to move out 20, 30, 40 dragons to see that one Marrow that everyone and their mother is out for and thus making other breeds effectively 'blockers'.

 

If the trade off was loss of multiclutches though...ehh, not really. Maybe just a reduction to a max of three would work? I kinda feel we'd need to just see how it goes but removing a feature is a LOT harder than adding one.

Bold by me.

Since what gets added in the form of CB eggs has to be made up in the form of bred eggs, releasing thousands of CB Halloweens for everyone to stuff themselves will greatly inhibit breeding, catching lineaged eggs and the trading thereof.

[cyradis4]

I am mostly indifferent to whether holidays get re-released or not, but I can't say I would mind.

 

I agree with the majority on keep the CB limits for Xmas and Valentines. I don't think any one is really objecting to that. I'd make halloweens unlimited, because they always were.

 

But how I'd release them would be as a separate 'holiday' biome, open for 2-3 days at the start of an event, and have nothing BUT the respective holiday dragons drop in it(after say 2-3yrs from the original release).

 

And all at equal ratios. Not 'older are rarer', just straight 1:1 ratio.

1 Holly produced for every Solstice

1 Marrow for every despips.

 

The cave itself does not HAVE ratios for these breeds, and any rarity is player imposed, so I see no need to them given a ratio (if in the separate biome). Yes, this means 2G value of the older holidays will drop rapidly, and yes, if people want to catch a hundred CB Shadow Walkers ( ), they would be able to. I think dropping them all as super commons for a couple of days would have almost no negative impact on the game itself. The trade market would be a different story as previously rare dragons become semi-common, but I don't actually see that as a bad thing. Also, the biome should move pretty well, since you wouldn't have to move out 20, 30, 40 dragons to see that one Marrow that everyone and their mother is out for and thus making other breeds effectively 'blockers'.

 

If the trade off was loss of multiclutches though...ehh, not really. Maybe just a reduction to a max of three would work? I kinda feel we'd need to just see how it goes but removing a feature is a LOT harder than adding one.

Hmmm..... Releasing them into their own Biome takes care of almost all the problems..... Except the extreme reduction in bred eggs in the AP. I'd prefer the Biome be opened, say, for 2 days after the Holiday event ends.

 

So for Halloween:

31st: New CB Halloween eggs drop

1st and 2nd: old Halloween CBs drop in their own special Biome

 

Of course, this means that for many people, they'll have the choice of left over bred eggs or getting old CB Halloweens. Most of them would be gotten on the 2nd, too. I would NOT make the drop of old Halloweens in their own biome last more than 2 days, though.

 

You can do the same with Christmas and Valentines. For the last 2 days of the CB drop, the old Holidays drop in their own Biome while the new eggs drop in all the others.

 

Cheers!

C4.

 

 

[dragongrrl]

October 31st, Halloween. new breed drops in Cave, all biomes.

 

November 2nd, Day of the Dead, old breeds drop in the Cave, all biomes.

 

Same pattern for the Winter Holiday and Valentines?

[danicast]

October 31st, Halloween. new breed drops in Cave, all biomes.

 

November 2nd, Day of the Dead, old breeds drop in the Cave, all biomes.

 

Same pattern for the Winter Holiday and Valentines?

The problem with this idea is that you are going to force the player to have to choose between get new eggs or get old eggs. I think this is terrible and will not solve the problem.

The drops should happen with a space of time enough so people can get both the new ones and the old ones.

[Guillotine]

I think for Halloweens it's fine to have that fairly short spacing, especially if it last two days, but perhaps for Vals and Christmas dragons they should be pushed back an extra day or so before the biome opens?

 

And I do think that they should have a separate special biome so that people who want to hunt for normal breeds after the holidays can do so.

[Kazeko]

I love the idea of CB Holidays, and I think the idea in the OP is sound. I don't really see why they would have to drop in a distinct "Holiday" biome, though. Couldn't they just be rarely scattered throughout the biomes?

 

My only concern is the speed at which Holiday dragons get snapped up. Scroll limits help, but if CB Holidays are dropping rarely even among the main Holiday dragons, it seems like it would be hard for newbies to catch any.

[dragongrrl]

The problem with this idea is that you are going to force the player to have to choose between get new eggs or get old eggs. I think this is terrible and will not solve the problem.

The drops should happen with a space of time enough so people can get both the new ones and the old ones.

This does allow anyone who is properly prepared to pick up a full complement of both the new eggs and old. It does require the ability to Incubate, but does give players the 48 hours necessary to raise the new CBs before trying for the old CBs.

 

The breeding still starts the week, so it would be bred eggs first, followed by the new CB eggs, and finishing up the last day with the old CBs.

[Prince_Xanthius]

Could we just make it the 4th day? So for xmas and vals the 2 days following the flood drop, theen just the equivalent (Nov 3) for Halloween? That way you don't need incubate to get a full complement of new and old eggs. (I'd still rather it was 2 days at the beginning as I think holidayswill drag out too long, otherwise and I don't think breeding would decrease drastically as a lot of people breed all their holidays for the sake of it, not because they need the offspring, and even if people would not pick up the AP eggs siomuch for a couple of days, but I don't think there is harm in that, they'd still get taken)

[DragonNighthowler]

I'm all for re-release of holidays. Not only because it would benefit me, which it would, but also because more and more people keep coming and the new players are left with the leftovers. It's not that they missed two or three releases like me (two of which I missed because in my country we don't celebrate Halloween). They have missed 7 or 8 releases. Also, older players will eventually leave for a variety of reasons. Bringing in new blood will deffinitely help in many ways, specially as, the scarcer these CB get, the higher the prize of second gens thus creating another holiday bubble and drama like the one with the hollies.

 

I don't mind giving in multiclutching. Sure, I'll miss hunting for second gens or my favorite breeds, or lurking through different lineages that might pop up, but I don't mind. I'll look up alternatives. Anyways, I already use B&G to give away my holidays and that's not going to change.

 

What I don't like is overly complicated stuff. As things are right now, halloween are unlimited and the rest are limited to two. Lets keep it like that. Anyways, it's not like the trading madness doesn't happen already on an everyday halloween, with some cases I've heard of of people trading up to 60 of these eggs (I still can't manage the math to do that). The good thing is enough eggs were being dropped to keep mass hoarders and humble collectors happy. So lets do that, drop in enough numbers to keep everyone happy.

 

Also, lets drop the eggs on the week previous to the new release, just like breeding old holidays has been done. I frankly see no reason to do it differently.

[Windra]

I am 100% supportive of this suggestion. There are so many holiday releases I have missed, as I only joined about a year ago, and I often find myself looking longingly at pretty Holiday checker/stairstep lineages: ones I'll never be able to continue. So yes, please!

 

Just make them uncommon drops every holiday as suggested, with the limit in place, and this idea could totally work.

[RecycledHeart]

I dunno. I'm in two minds about this.

 

On the one hand, I would absolutely love to be able to get CB marrows, yulebucks, sweetlings, the things I've missed. I wish I'd joined earlier so I had them on my scroll.

 

On the other hand, I like that older players have the "perk", I guess you could say, of having dragons that were released since they've been around. Holiday releases are the one thing that really show the difference between the veteran players and the new ones and I quite like that. I think it's nice that there's the whole "I have a CB this because I've been playing since this year and I've stuck around ever since". It's one thing I quite like about the site.

 

So while I suppose I wouldn't be disappointed if there was a rerelease somehow, because I'd get some CBs myself, I'd feel a little dirty about it like I was kind of cheating, you know? Because I wasn't really around to get them so they're not really my holidays, like the shadow walkers and winter magis are.

 

So yeah, I'd prefer to keep things the way they are now, personally. I'm happy enough with my 2nd gens.

Older players have badges on their scrolls which newer players can't get just for that reason. Imo, that shouldnt be a reason not to rerelease old holidays because it's an actual sprite which can be used in lineages while a badge just sits on the scroll.

[Seghs]

I only collect CB dragons (save for hybrids, etc) so this would be really nice!

Edited August 5, 2015 by Seghs

[Atherys]

I would absolutely love this idea. I've only joined this year and honestly, it's quite sad for me to know that I can never really obtain any CB holiday dragons from past years.

But I agree with others that it should have its limits - no multiclutches sounds like a fair tradeoff.

[olympe]

I would absolutely love this idea. I've only joined this year and honestly, it's quite sad for me to know that I can never really obtain any CB holiday dragons from past years.

But I agree with others that it should have its limits - no multiclutches sounds like a fair tradeoff.

Absolutely not!

 

Multiclutches are what make the AP a holiday egg feast during the breeding season. A DC holiday without lots of holiday eggs is like Halloween without sweets, Thanksgiving without a turkey or or Christmas without presents.

 

And, although I sympathize very much with the situation of newer players who want all those CBs they missed and I'm definitely supporting limited re-releases because of that, you need to consider the situation of older players, too. As soon as you have all those CBs maxed, all you can do is breed and catch eggs in the AP. If the trade-off is implemented the way you suggest, there won't be anything in the AP worth catching. Result: Everyone has a year or two (or maybe three) of great CB catches - and then nothing. Nada. Nilch. Which makes this a very bad idea for everyone who stays on the site for a couple of years.

Edited August 7, 2015 by olympe

[Fuzzbucket]

Absolutely not!

 

Multiclutches are what make the AP a holiday egg feast during the breeding season. A DC holiday without lots of holiday eggs is like Halloween without sweets, Thanksgiving without a turkey or or Christmas without presents.

 

And, although I sympathize very much with the situation of newer players who want all those CBs they missed and I'm definitely supporting limited re-releases because of that, you need to consider the situation of older players, too. As soon as you have all those CBs maxed, all you can do is breed and catch eggs in the AP. If the trade-off is implemented the way you suggest, there won't be anything in the AP worth catching. Result: Everyone has a year or two (or maybe three) of great CB catches - and then nothing. Nada. Nilch. Which makes this a very bad idea for everyone who stays on the site for a couple of years.

This this this this. NOTHING that makes holiday multiclutches go away. Or even be less.

 

They are the BEST bit of the holidays. They are what has started a load of lovely lineages from people who never thought of breeding - say - winter magis with red nebulas (MY bright idea that got lots of others doing it - and there are many more !)

 

ETA - @ EternallyShadow - as soon as you are a part of the mad dash for the AP in holiday season - you'll see this !

Edited August 7, 2015 by fuzzbucket

[Syphoneira]

 

This is very true.

 

The reason the lack of a limit on Halloweens works is that there's a continuous Flood during the New Release - otherwise, it would be a disaster.

 

Allowing Abandoning but not Teleportation would help - but the only way a Re-Release of the older Halloweens would work would be to have a Flood, with the oldest, therefore fewest remaining, CBs Dropping at the highest rates, and at a time when people could actually grab some without sacrificing the ability for a scroll-full of New Release Halloweens.

 

Suppose that instead of limiting Holiday clutch sizes (and forcing people to choose between old and new Halloweens,) the first Holiday breeding day (which could also be delayed) included a Flood of untradeable older CB Holidays?

 

Most people would likely not be breeding for themselves or others that day or the next, with most people being locked or trying to be, and would in most cases therefore probably be more selective about what they bred thereafter, reproducing only their best lineages, increasing the quality of available lineages in the AP in a shorter period and in therefore smaller numbers on a more often selective basis.

 

Not every person would want every older sprite, of course, but if there was a steady supply produced for 24 hours of older CB Halloweens, everyone present should eventually be able to pick up at least some of what they need/want and replenish site-wide breeding stocks of various CBs.

 

People would be locked for 2 (or 3) days following, then have an opportunity to breed and pick up AP eggs, while still leaving time for a batch or two to hatch in order to to make room for the new Halloween eggs.

 

This would relieve stress and disappointment otherwise created by a return to fruitless hours of hunting or of people having to give any effort to catch older Halloweens a miss because of not wanting to miss out on the new ones which, if this were to be implemented as Suggested, involving the older and diminishing CBs, would not be again available for years.

 

There doesn't appear to be any logical reason for making older CB Holidays 'go rare' on scrolls, or for limiting their acquisition to only the fastest members - they're Holidays, and at DC, holidays are intended for grabbing, giving, sharing and receiving, even if TJ and the spriters would be the ones doing all of the additional giving and sharing, lol.

 

I'd initially thought of this in relation only to Halloweens, but then it occurred to me that it might be applied to the other older CB Holidays in the Suggestion as well - any thoughts?

 

 

 

If I may, I'd just like to repost some points made earlier, along with a few others.

 

Apart from the Hollies, (which were before my time, and which I probably wouldn't have had any chance of catching at their rare drop rate anyway) and the CB Vamps (which didn't much appeal to me at the time and don't matter from a breeding perspective anyhow,) I'm lucky enough to have my max of CB Limited Holidays and at least some of each Halloween in CB, something of which I'll be glad forever, although some of the earlier Holiday Releases were murder to obtain in the Cave and barely achievable and in some cases gifted by wonderful people because they weren't, except for the fastest, even though there was a less extreme degree of disparity possible between the fastest and slowest connections back then.

 

Thankfully, TJ changed the Drop rates and time-length of Holiday Drops so as to remove the high stress levels of trying to snag them (especially for those coming though empty-handed despite their time and effort) and to enable everyone able to get internet time/access to get these dragons during their limited season and has opened up a whole new area in allowing us unlimited bred lineages, making possible beautiful new Holiday lineages and long-term plans of which we could previously only dream. (I've noticed the tendency to think long-term, over multiple years, seems to have since spread considerably into multiple DC areas among those planning Suggestions as well, and would suspect that this might be related.)

 

Holiday Releases are now something I and many others look forward to, rather than dreading, and, although relatively brief, occasions where most players can now manage to easily catch their Holidays eggs at some point during what are often not only particularly busy times but especially important family-related togetherness times.

 

I cannot imagine grudging anyone else the chance to get older CB Holidays, the lack of which deprives them also of breeding lines requiring them, nor do I understand how other people getting them at a later date could diminish mine in any fashion, although I have to admit that I generally only try to swap Holidays for lineages I need and otherwise don't much like the idea of my trading, rather than gifting, Holidays in general, as I personally tend to think of those more as sharing events.

 

Holiday events and dragons ARE special; the oldest Holiday sprites, and the lower-gen bloodlines, ARE diminishing, especially regarding DC's iconic Holly, which was on the endangered list before TJ briefly brought them in as HMs, which at least added a few CBs relative to the member population.

 

 

I'm still not sure why the numbers of Holidays, which only reproduce themselves once a year and shouldn't affect other ratios, need to be restricted.

 

What difference would it actually make elsewhere in the site if there were an increased number of these sitting on scrolls and reproducing only non-Holiday eggs year round?

 

 

Are trade values more important than the DC dragons we come to get - and would not many people be even more frantically swapping/AP-hunting in future for specific low-gens among ourselves if they had CBs they could breed of older types, especially regarding Hollies?

 

Quite a number of us who come to collect dragons, rather than to wheel and deal with fast systems a relative few possess, (and something which also does not appeal to everyone, that being another reason we play DC rather than other games) have no use for rares as rares, since that only means that they're invisible to most, virtually impossible to obtain and something shutting people out of various lines, lineages, and scroll goals, and this applies even more to CB Holidays, at what most, if they stop to think, would consider to be the least appropriate times for designed scarcity, frustration and disappointment to be introduced in the form of invisible-to-most unCommons MOST eagerly snatched up by the fastest alone during a very short-term Drop in a generally blocked Cave allowing not all that many though. (Like one day a year of invisible Alpine/Coast Pyrals/Zenos, etc., only more so, for nearly all of us, at all 3 Holidays.)

 

 

Going by experience, I'd say that most DC players want a lot of whatever they really like/need for something, lol.

 

Apart from those relatively rare people having goals involving specifics such as only one sprite/pair, or whatever, one or two of a sprite almost never enough for basic breeding or scroll purposes.

 

For a good portion of the membership, obtaining the dragons is the start of a major aspect of the game as they play it, something with which rarity concepts interfere.

 

Not being able to obtain dragons wanted/needed for whatever reasons is not fun for most, especially in a limited time period when other (typically family) obligations may have priority and at what are supposed to be joyous, or at least enjoyable seasons - and therefore often even more depressing than usual periods for those excluded from the traditionally celebrated fun in RL.

 

And for others not (yet, lol,) bitten by the lineage bug, a re-Release of older CB Holidays would give them more reason to show up prior to the New Release each Holiday and more likely to be around during Holiday breeding week to get an idea of the fun lineage builders have in finding sometimes very specific suitable mates on the AP for previously acquired Holiday lines.

 

 

Perking up the Holidays further by Flooding (which would likely still involve quite a lot of blocking by Limited Holidays more people present already had two of, and waiting for shuffles for whatever dragon one didn't yet have two of and hoped for, so probably time consuming still, with fewer numbers of the most wanted appearing at all to be taken, due to the sprites sitting because nobody with two CBs could pick them up to even move them off, and lower chances thereof for all but the fastest to get any of the oldest even then,) with a Re-Release of the oldest Holidays on the first breeding day of each Holiday's Season would leave room for later breeding and collecting of whatever specific breds can only be produced during that one week of the year while allowing for room to catch a full scroll of the New Release Halloween and the allowable number of the Limited Holidays without adding the sort of insane stress level we've so happily left behind, and would only re-introduce with lower Drop rates enabling only the fastest to catch.

 

 

(I'm awfully tired, so no idea how clear this is, or what I may have missed, lol.)

[cyradis4]

I would absolutely love this idea. I've only joined this year and honestly, it's quite sad for me to know that I can never really obtain any CB holiday dragons from past years.

But I agree with others that it should have its limits - no multiclutches sounds like a fair tradeoff.

Please wait until AFTER you've seen at least one limited Holiday before saying that removing multi-clutches across the board is a fair compromise.

 

I've been here for years, and have most of the dragons in CBs.

 

Removing multi-clutches completely is NOT fair to older users. Not fair AT ALL.

 

Cheers!

C4.

[purplehaze]

I am not at all against holiday rereleases if they can be done in a balanced manner that doesn't disadvantage those of us who already have our CBs. I am dead set against them if they mean no holiday multiclutches!

[NotBambi]

I was re-reading TJ's post and he kind of left the door open... if multiclutches were smaller wouldn't that be an acceptable trade-off? In particular, considering that many of the people that usually would compete for bred eggs would be focusing on CBs instead.

[Tehya Faye]

I personally would be okay with Halloweens being set to twin. Not a range, just a guaranteed 2 eggs per breeding. Christmas and Valentines...I dunno. That might be too low.

[Syphoneira]

I'd hate to see no potential for at least 3 eggs per clutch, especially considering the fact that these highly varied and sometimes multi-generational/complex Holiday lineages which various of us work on are produced only once a year - not to mention Refusals potentially effecting those lines which can be bred year-round to provide the next step for the next year.

 

I'll admit to having been kinda off breeding for some time now due to Refusals, etc., and know that others are as well, but they used to be a lot of fun.

 

Trying to trade for these is nearly always fruitless and I've found the odds of catching something 'close enough' or even matching on the AP somewhat better, with at least some hope of finding something the next year also being a thing.

 

But with only one egg of each breeding arriving on the AP, rather than a potential of at least two, this really makes finding mates for each step even harder and knocks yet another facet of DC important to at least some of us pretty much into the probably impossible range.

[kiramaru7]

I don't support this at all.

 

Why? Because I worked hard to get the CB holidays I have, for one thing, for another why should my efforts be negated because little Suzie & Johnny want what I have, but don't want to work for it? I was here for 09 Valentines, but I couldn't catch a single one! I was upset, but imagine my joy the following year when peeps bred them & tossed eggs in the AP! I snatched my 2 & was very happy with them!

 

I wasn't here to get CB Hollies & Yules, but thanks to peeps breeding them, I managed to snag 2nd gens. And let me tell you, I spent HOURS trying for Hollies & finally got them! And I was able one year to grab so many of them, that I gifted all my friends with one.

 

CBs are nice, but I'm mature enough to know it was a LIMITED EDITION of 2 & that once that window of opportunity to get one has passed, it's gone & I dealt with it. I HATE this culture of GIMME GIMME GIMME!!!

 

It also bothers me that peeps are demanding CB golds & silvers. I WORKED HARD to get those too, with the exception of one silver that I got in a trade. By handing these things out cuz Mary Lou joined yesterday & wants what took me YEARS to get to be UNFAIR to myself & other players who also WORKED HARD to get them.

 

I'm sorry, I see nothing selfish about it. What I find selfish are peeps negating my hard work, because they a) missed out because they weren't around for it, or too lazy to get it on their own by spending the time & effort to get it. About the only thing I can see to make things easier for those with slower connections is to maybe half the waiting time to dump CBs in the AP along with a continual flood of Holiday eggs & no mixing in of other eggs until the Holiday is finished.

 

I'm also against getting rid of Holiday multi-clutches. The purpose behind them is to share the love of those 2nd & 3rd gens (on up) for those who missed the initial release for whatever reason.

 

So PLEASE no handing out stuff because someone missed something & wants a CB.

[Kith]

But that's not what the suggestion is for... It's to replace the ones that are no longer in the breeding pool due to older players leaving the game. Sure, it will satisfy the people who want older CB holidays, but the purpose isn't to make the "GIMME" people happy, it's to make sure we can all keep continuing our holiday lines in the future.

[kiramaru7]

I still don't support this. They were made Limited Editions for a reason. By bringing them back, it takes away from that. I'm sorry, it's still sounds like GIMMEE GIMMEE to me.

[Kith]

*shrug* Okay. So, hypothetically speaking, would you want a new player 10 years from now to be limited to stairs, spirals, messes, and inbreeding for the oldest holidays because there aren't any unrelated offspring to make other patterns with? If not, how would you solve this? *curious*