Holiday Rereleases

[CNR4806]

While that would keep the trade market out of it, you'd have to do the same to Valentines and Christmas. TJ has said quite often that he dislikes exceptions.

 

I'm not sure if I have any objection to it, just saying it'd have to apply to all the re-releases.

 

Cheers!

C4.

Not to disagree with you, but the very nature of the Halloween dragons is one giant exception.

[Syphoneira]

Not to disagree with you, but the very nature of the Halloween dragons is one giant exception.

 

 

This is very true.

 

The reason the lack of a limit on Halloweens works is that there's a continuous Flood during the New Release - otherwise, it would be a disaster.

 

Allowing Abandoning but not Teleportation would help - but the only way a Re-Release of the older Halloweens would work would be to have a Flood, with the oldest, therefore fewest remaining, CBs Dropping at the highest rates, and at a time when people could actually grab some without sacrificing the ability for a scroll-full of New Release Halloweens.

 

Suppose that instead of limiting Holiday clutch sizes (and forcing people to choose between old and new Halloweens,) the first Holiday breeding day (which could also be delayed) included a Flood of untradeable older CB Holidays?

 

Most people would likely not be breeding for themselves or others that day or the next, with most people being locked or trying to be, and would in most cases therefore probably be more selective about what they bred thereafter, reproducing only their best lineages, increasing the quality of available lineages in the AP in a shorter period and in therefore smaller numbers on a more often selective basis.

 

Not every person would want every older sprite, of course, but if there was a steady supply produced for 24 hours of older CB Halloweens, everyone present should eventually be able to pick up at least some of what they need/want and replenish site-wide breeding stocks of various CBs.

 

People would be locked for 2 (or 3) days following, then have an opportunity to breed and pick up AP eggs, while still leaving time for a batch or two to hatch in order to to make room for the new Halloween eggs.

 

This would relieve stress and disappointment otherwise created by a return to fruitless hours of hunting or of people having to give any effort to catch older Halloweens a miss because of not wanting to miss out on the new ones which, if this were to be implemented as Suggested, involving the older and diminishing CBs, would not be again available for years.

 

There doesn't appear to be any logical reason for making older CB Holidays 'go rare' on scrolls, or for limiting their acquisition to only the fastest members - they're Holidays, and at DC, holidays are intended for grabbing, giving, sharing and receiving, even if TJ and the spriters would be the ones doing all of the additional giving and sharing, lol.

 

I'd initially thought of this in relation only to Halloweens, but then it occurred to me that it might be applied to the other older CB Holidays in the Suggestion as well - any thoughts?

[olympe]

Why not try unlimited Halloween releases for the first year and then if it generates negativity due to hogging it can be dropped to a limit of four per breed each year? *snip*

Because that's maths and the average DC player obviously too stupid to understand it. See TJ's comment about the "+2 every year" suggestion in the old thread about raising holiday limits. And if TJ actually went with trying out unlimited re-releases, he could hardly go back to a limit without more drama.

 

Most people would likely not be breeding for themselves or others that day or the next, with most people being locked or trying to be, and would in most cases therefore probably be more selective about what they bred thereafter, reproducing only their best lineages, increasing the quality of available lineages in the AP in a shorter period and in therefore smaller numbers on a more often selective basis.

Most people would likely not be breeding until their new CBs hatched - but they'll do what they always do during holidays: Breed everything they haven't bred yet on the last day of the breeding week - and go AP hunting after the breeding week, as long as there are Halloween eggs to be found. So, no, I don't think that the amount of bred eggs will decrease unless TJ reduces multi-clutches

 

but the only way a Re-Release of the older Halloweens would work would be to have a Flood, with the oldest, therefore fewest remaining, CBs Dropping at the highest rates, and at a time when people could actually grab some without sacrificing the ability for a scroll-full of New Release Halloweens.

Exactly. But it will cost us dearly in the form of way fewer AP eggs. Which is something I'm not happy with, either.

[Syphoneira]

I'm still not sure why the numbers of Holidays, which only reproduce themselves once a year and shouldn't affect other ratios, need to be restricted.

 

What difference would it actually make elsewhere in the site if there were an increased number of these sitting on scrolls and reproducing only non-Holiday eggs year round?

[cyradis4]

I'm still not sure why the numbers of Holidays, which only reproduce themselves once a year and shouldn't affect other ratios, need to be restricted.

 

What difference would it actually make elsewhere in the site if there were an increased number of these sitting on scrolls and reproducing only non-Holiday eggs year round?

Certain old Holidays have "value", even out-of-season. Actually..... Only CB Hollies do, come to think of it! There's also often the feeling of "I was there, and you weren't" type of thing. Sorta like a badge. Those that were there have CB Holidays from that year, those that weren't, don't.

 

With some games, where there's a lot of things that occur once and don't come back, I can understand that mentality. But for DC, the only thing that occurs once and no other time are the CB Holidays. And even then, the HM raffles still put more into the game. Well... that and Frills and Bright Pinks, but those were special circumstances and I think we might get Frills back..... *eyes TJ and Lyth*

 

So the question, to my mind at least, is:

Do we see this as a game where everything is still available so users new and old can get it from the game, or do we see it as a game where there are things new users just can't get?

 

Frankly, I'd go with "everyone still around", because its such a rare circumstance in the Adoptable world. Oh sure, most games you can trade for what you don't have.... IF you can afford it. But that's not the game itself having it available. So that would mean a game mechanic to re-release CB Holidays, in one fashion or another. A "store" or into the Biomes.

 

Cheers!

C4.

[RecycledHeart]

I would rather this be a game where everyone, old users or new users has a chance to get everything. I stopped playing magistream because of all the donation pets. There were just too many to try and get with the ingame currency and I refuse to spend real money on an online game.

 

Spriters were opposed to the store idea, which is why rereleasing old cb holidays into the biomes is the best idea imo.

 

And yeah, cb hollies are the only cb holiday to carry any weight in the trading thread.

Edited July 29, 2015 by RecycledHeart

[Fuzzbucket]

And yeah, cb hollies are the only cb holiday to carry any weight in the trading thread.

Actually, that's not true. I've been involved in many high-powered trades for 2 gen sweetlings, 2 gen marrows, 2 gen bucks and a variety of angels.

 

Just saying.

[RecycledHeart]

Actually, that's not true. I've been involved in many high-powered trades for 2 gen sweetlings, 2 gen marrows, 2 gen bucks and a variety of angels.

 

Just saying.

Really? My mistake then .

[cyradis4]

Actually, that's not true. I've been involved in many high-powered trades for 2 gen sweetlings, 2 gen marrows, 2 gen bucks and a variety of angels.

 

Just saying.

2nd gen Holidays are one thing. I've also been in high powered ones.... For the *Holidays*.

 

2nd gen Commons from Holidays are a whole different ballgame. In fact, Metals from Holidays are worth significantly LESS than metals from non-Holidays. Same with Prizes.

 

Oh, there are trades for 2nd gen commons from Alt Sweetlings, but in general? Trying to trade a common / uncommon from a CB Pink Sweetling, CB Marrow, CB Yulebuck, or CB Snow Angel is an exercise in futility. I myself breed on request for all the Holiday CBs I have when not in the Holiday. So do many, many people.

 

But 2nd gen Commons from Hollies trade well even out of season.

 

Cheers!

C4.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

Actually, that's not true. I've been involved in many high-powered trades for 2 gen sweetlings, 2 gen marrows, 2 gen bucks and a variety of angels.

 

Just saying.

Really? I've gotten a few okay things for 2g Yules, but they're still several orders of magnitude below what I'd consider a high end trade.

[Jazeki]

2nd gen Holidays are one thing. I've also been in high powered ones.... For the *Holidays*.

 

2nd gen Commons from Holidays are a whole different ballgame. In fact, Metals from Holidays are worth significantly LESS than metals from non-Holidays. Same with Prizes.

 

Oh, there are trades for 2nd gen commons from Alt Sweetlings, but in general? Trying to trade a common / uncommon from a CB Pink Sweetling, CB Marrow, CB Yulebuck, or CB Snow Angel is an exercise in futility. I myself breed on request for all the Holiday CBs I have when not in the Holiday. So do many, many people.

 

But 2nd gen Commons from Hollies trade well even out of season.

 

Cheers!

C4.

Exactly. You can get a high powered trade out of any 2nd gen holiday if its parents are the right "valuable" pairing (i.e. one of TJ's Thuweds or a prize/non-holiday HM).

 

I also give away many 2nd gen common mates for holidays (and 2nd gen holidays as well).

 

Regardless, I don't think it's right to not increase the CB holiday population in some way just to continue to maintain their trade value.

Edited July 29, 2015 by Jazeki

[Fuzzbucket]

Regardless, I don't think it's right to not increase the CB holiday population in some way just to continue to maintain their trade value.

THIS. Trade "value" should have nothing to do with it. It should be about the GAME - the collecting and breeding thing, and whether we need more CBs in the mix to make up for those who no longer produce eggs for the gene pool..

[Twilight-Stasis]

I would LOVE this if it became a thing, the most I have in the way of rare is a single Penk lineage silver prize that is my silent self praise badge on my scroll, I found it in the AP.

I've been here since 2012 and have missed out on all the holiday dragons and face palmed myself over missing the shadow walkers (who are best dragons) and would love a second chance to get in on that holiday action, because I really felt that salt when I missed the 15 Valentines by a day, so yeah, this being a thing would be amazing. Besides, why should we even have to think about the trade market? It isn't even actually part of the game and many people aren't part of it.

So.... this has all my support!

[olympe]

THIS. Trade "value" should have nothing to do with it. It should be about the GAME - the collecting and breeding thing, and whether we need more CBs in the mix to make up for those who no longer produce eggs for the gene pool..

I'm not opposed to this suggestion due to value. Although I value my holidays - CB and lineaged ones, mind you - I don't trade the offspring away for who knows what. Heck, I even breed my (lineaged) hollies for free. Yes, during the season. If the person who wants them is available to take the egg. Not to mention breeding my stuff out of season for whoever wants some offspring.

[Fuzzbucket]

I'm not opposed to this suggestion due to value. Although I value my holidays - CB and lineaged ones, mind you - I don't trade the offspring away for who knows what. Heck, I even breed my (lineaged) hollies for free. Yes, during the season. If the person who wants them is available to take the egg. Not to mention breeding my stuff out of season for whoever wants some offspring.

Oh me too. I don't particularly mind about this one, either way, though I do wish I had a second CB Sweetling - I do like even numbers

 

But I DO hate the idea of any suggestion's "acceptability" being in ANY way related to the perceived "stock market" values of anything.

Edited July 29, 2015 by fuzzbucket

[cyradis4]

Oh me too. I don't particularly mind about this one, either way, though I do wish I had a second CB Sweetling - I do like even numbers

 

But I DO hate the idea of any suggestion's "acceptability" being in ANY way related to the perceived "stock market" values of anything.

Not "acceptability", but it does need to be taken into account. Prize releases should have been easy and a happy occasion.... But an accidental extreme rarity situation happened.... And it caused endless drama and angst and anger and drove people away. Its only now righting itself with a huge infusion of CBs.

 

So for any re-release... balancing is key. AND the trade market DOES have to be taken into consideration, because no matter what you'd want, the trade market and the perceptions it generates have a huge effect on the game.

 

Cheers!

C4.

 

 

[olympe]

Unfortunately, this is very true. I wish it were different, but considering what prizes did to DC, I'd rather consider "stock market" issues one time too often.

 

Thus, I'd much rather see a different way to obtain old CB holidays - be it through some kind of game, a shop, be part of the holiday event that you can choose one old CB or through some other mechanism. One idea that springs to mind is that AP eggs that have been picked up by X number of different players (25? 50?) would lose their lineage, and thus "turn" CB. Because, well, the stuff that gets abandoned again and again is obviously not exactly what the players who are actually online at the time want to spend an egg slot on.

[Fiona]

Rather than this I would actually prefer the shop idea, but this does have enough merit to consider. The nice thing about the shop idea is you aren't competing to grab things. The nice thing about this is all the basic structure is in place already, it's not adding a whole huge new mechanic to the game.

 

Since these are something everyone would have an opportunity to get I don't think the impact on the trade market would be that huge. And from what I understand of Pie's posts the rarity was not to make them hard to get but to prevent them becoming blockers since, at least for Christmas and Valentines' Day, people would only be able to pick them up if they had less than 2 cb already. Halloween is a little more problematic, but if they drop fairly frequently, as Spirit Wards are dropping now, I don't see them being a problem either.

[Red2111]

i like this idea, though as others have said finding holidays to swap for or build lineages with that i want just takes a bit of work (be it from the AP, finding unrelated mates or 2G's). and i say this as a person who collects only 2G's of past holidays and builds non-inbred checkers with them to send off to the AP or breed for others that need mates for their own projects.

 

 

 

but ... i'd love my own CB's of the previous holidays so i could be self reliant and not have to take up others dragons to get what i want.

 

for me, its not about collecting a CB of everything, or even not being able to trade for what i want. its about that fact that i'd like to be able to breed them myself rather than taking up another persons short breeding window.

 

 

 

 

Let's say... 3 years after a dragon is released, bring them out again.

 

How about a cycle, to keep things fresh?

 

This year, rerelease hollies. Or better yet, wait until the 10th year of Dragcave's birthday, and start there. That's next year, after all. Year after that, Vamps and Yulebucks. Year after that, Valentine '09s, Pumpkins, and Snow Angels, and so on and so forth. Keeping it at a cycle like that would encourage people who missed these holidays to keep playing year after year, in the hopes for getting the ones they didn't have. And if you're releasing only those during the different holidays, and have them be a rare drop among the new release, it'd be a challenge for everyone.

 

And every 10 years, repeat the cycle! So

 

10th anniversary (2016) Hollies for Christmas

11th (2017), Vamps and Yulebucks

12th (2018), Valentine '09s, Pumpkins and Snow Angels

13th (2019), Sweetlings, Black Marrows, and Ribbon Dancers

14th (2020), Rosebuds, Shadow Walkers, and Winter Magi

15th (2021), Heartseekers, Cavern Lurkers, and Wrapping Wings

16th (2022), Arsanis, Graves, and Solstices

17th (2023), Radiant Angels, Desipis, and Mistletoes

18th (2024), Heartstealers, 2015 Halloweens, and 2015 Holidays

19th (2025), 2016 Valentines, 2016 Halloweens, 2016 Holidays

20th (2026), Hollies again for Christmas.

 

This might even fix the Halloween issue. People would have to divide their wants between getting as many new releases as they can, and getting more CBs of whatever else is released. I mean there's still going to be people who get 50 of each, but from what I've seen they don't get them for free, they have to trade things for them all so they're still having to work at it.

 

But yeah, 2 CB limit for new releases and rereleases, this way that'd be 4 new dragons on peoples' scrolls per Valentines/Christmas, which isn't all that much different from now. And even brand spanking new people can get two of each for Valentines and Christmas.

 

^ this, was my thoughts exactly when reading this thread

 

each year, during the breeding week leading up to the new holiday release, a single previous egg is cycled into the normal eggs that drop in the biomes, but at an uncommon status (like trio or Gold Wyvren) this way it doesn't take over the biomes for people that dont want to catch previous holidays during that time (given they pretty much rule the AP during this week)

 

and adding into TJ's comment

 

I think if this were to happen, it'd be at the cost of holiday multiclutches (at least, they'd be rarer or smaller on average). Right now, there doesn't seem to be a shortage of most event breeds during their season--perhaps the opposite, even; if more were to be made available as CBs, bred egg counts would have to drop correspondingly.

 

 

question for you TJ ....

 

 

if the older holidays are cycled ... would the multi-clutch stoppage be on all of the holidays still, or just targetting the older one dropping as a CB again??

 

 

ie: Hollies are cycled back in as CB's for the week. so no bred Hollies multi-clutch on that year; but the other Holiday dragons multi-clutch like normal?

[StormWizard212]

I dunno. I'm in two minds about this.

 

On the one hand, I would absolutely love to be able to get CB marrows, yulebucks, sweetlings, the things I've missed. I wish I'd joined earlier so I had them on my scroll.

 

On the other hand, I like that older players have the "perk", I guess you could say, of having dragons that were released since they've been around. Holiday releases are the one thing that really show the difference between the veteran players and the new ones and I quite like that. I think it's nice that there's the whole "I have a CB this because I've been playing since this year and I've stuck around ever since". It's one thing I quite like about the site.

 

So while I suppose I wouldn't be disappointed if there was a rerelease somehow, because I'd get some CBs myself, I'd feel a little dirty about it like I was kind of cheating, you know? Because I wasn't really around to get them so they're not really my holidays, like the shadow walkers and winter magis are.

 

So yeah, I'd prefer to keep things the way they are now, personally. I'm happy enough with my 2nd gens.

[blockEdragon]

i really want this to happen

my favorite dragon has to be a shadow walker and im really bummed that i can't get a CB one

and it makes no sense from the lore standpoint either?

what after that first release dose a data monster do a dragon genocide and not factor in the captive ones?

do they suddenly all lose their ability to make children?

 

 

plus the 2015 line is of more value then the 20whatever lines so the old ones would probably have a vale to them to collectors

 

 

 

 

[olympe]

I don't think that "value" is, in any way, part of this. Not for the opposition, at least. I don't care if everybody can have their CBs of every holiday breed, but I'm concerned with what will happen to Halloweens which have no limits attached to them. Especially if the drop is either rare or uncommon and the CB eggs have to be paid with for bred AP eggs.

[Eclipseheart]

I absolutely love the idea as long as they were rereleased in cave.

 

As for Halloweens, I don't really see the point in limiting people to be honest, no need to change the rules on that one. Full support on limiting Hollies, Mistletoes, Sweetlings, etc, though.

I've missed some years myself and would love to get CBs (Mistletoe, Marrow, and Shadow Walkers for example), and I can see how some people would want to keep the CBs exclusive to those who were there for the releases, but we won't have all that many people with CB Hollies and such that still play, so it's making those 2Gs rare and a little harder to obtain ^^;

 

I would say essentially ''cleaning out the cave'' a week or two before each Holiday, aside from one or two or even half of the biomes for those who don't want to participate in the rereleases, and have have 3 or 4 biomes for catching the previous years. 2 CBs for every Christmas and Valentine's Day and unlimited, like always, for Halloween.

 

EDIT: I wouldn't see the problem in limiting multi-clutches at that time either.

Edited August 3, 2015 by Eclipseheart

[Prince_Xanthius]

I am mostly indifferent to whether holidays get re-released or not, but I can't say I would mind.

 

I agree with the majority on keep the CB limits for Xmas and Valentines. I don't think any one is really objecting to that. I'd make halloweens unlimited, because they always were.

 

But how I'd release them would be as a separate 'holiday' biome, open for 2-3 days at the start of an event, and have nothing BUT the respective holiday dragons drop in it(after say 2-3yrs from the original release).

 

And all at equal ratios. Not 'older are rarer', just straight 1:1 ratio.

1 Holly produced for every Solstice

1 Marrow for every despips.

 

The cave itself does not HAVE ratios for these breeds, and any rarity is player imposed, so I see no need to them given a ratio (if in the separate biome). Yes, this means 2G value of the older holidays will drop rapidly, and yes, if people want to catch a hundred CB Shadow Walkers ( ), they would be able to. I think dropping them all as super commons for a couple of days would have almost no negative impact on the game itself. The trade market would be a different story as previously rare dragons become semi-common, but I don't actually see that as a bad thing. Also, the biome should move pretty well, since you wouldn't have to move out 20, 30, 40 dragons to see that one Marrow that everyone and their mother is out for and thus making other breeds effectively 'blockers'.

 

If the trade off was loss of multiclutches though...ehh, not really. Maybe just a reduction to a max of three would work? I kinda feel we'd need to just see how it goes but removing a feature is a LOT harder than adding one.

[_DJ_ Blaze]

It would be so cool if this happened.

Most of the points have already been made, so I'll just say this would be awesome.