Holiday Rereleases

[Vhale]

I don't see how limits can be done without walls forming. Rather than focus on Holly and Next Christmas also consider Ribbon Dancer and 3 years. The dragons always multiply by the scrolls space does not.

 

Problem we had in the past, Lack of Holly Dragons. Resolved via HM prizes. Now people want more than Hollies, they want CBs.

 

Problem we had in the past. Lineaged eggs being deleted due to the cave cleaner and dieing in the AP causing people to stop breeding. Solved by removed the Holiday limits for lineaged eggs.

 

Perceived problem. 89 Despis. There's a focus on the end result rather than the work required to get it.

A. Anyone that tries to get this is going to be trading or IOUing for a long time.

B. They'll have to find traders willing to IOU etc that do not have their scrolls full of their own favorites.

C. The timing required for this kind of feat is insane. It works when the eggs are readily available and can be gamed when hatching so as to trade off at teh right moment before growing. Without a steady supply of eggs and people online that can make this happen, it doesn't work. I'd guess it's the mainstay of people who only collect 2 sprites.

D. I didn't see anyone lose out on Despis, which is why I say perceived.

 

Metal Boom 2013. When the boom happened and metals were easier to catch, they dropped at the rate of about 3 per hour. So, if eggs were mixed in they'd need to be a bit higher than that.

 

Personally I'd leave the Holidays as they are and re-release every past holiday for three days for DC's 10th anniversary event. No limits. People would have to choose which one is most important to them. And if they can get 89, more power to them.

[Pixxelation]

At least regular rares drop all year round. Not that I'd see them, but obviously some people do. 

 

But right now, the suggestion seems to be to allow everyone to try for some extra old holidays, preferably with no limits at all or only 2 growing things per breed (save Halloweens), of course all in the name of "making them available to new players". However, it's going to be the fastest players who are going to get the "rare or uncommon" old holidays. Plus, they're supposed to be dropped in an extra biome, where they can easily be caught with "little helpers". As a result, multiclutches need to be reduced.

 

Overall, this doesn't add up. Either this is supposed to benefit players who don't have their allot of CBs yet, which would mean that the current limits need to apply and an additional limit on Halloweens would need to get implemented, or it's going to benefit the same people who always benefit, while everyone else loses out (and even gets less of a chance at catching bred holidays).

 

Right now, the suggestion only serves to make catching lineaged holidays harder, which was something even slower catchers could do with some effort - even very nice lineages. In exchange, the very fastest clickers are supposed to be able to get something extra special - because, let's face it, slower clickers won't be able to get anything rare or uncommon that everybody and their grandmother wants.

 

No support. Not now, not in a thousand years. Not without substantial changes to the suggestion.

 

Also, since nobody commented on this:

Overall, this suggestion is a nightmare to balance. I'd prefer old holidays to be available through other means, like an in-game shop, instead of a re-release. Alternately, any one old holiday sprite could be available through mini games. Let's take mana alchemy, for instance. If you won it at least 10 times, you could choose one old Valentine dragon egg. If you won it at least 100 times, you'd be able to choose two old Valentine dragon eggs. If you played it 1000 times, you could choose three old Valentine dragon eggs. And so on.

 

A progression like this would make sure nobody could get too many, not even through grinding - but TJ could implement a cap at 1000 anyway, just in case. Plus, scroll limits for old CB holiday breeds might not even be needed at all, since everyone is limited to 3 old ones per year and event.

 

Alternately, for the Egg Hunts or Trick or Treat events, the progression could be 1/4 of all items found for one old holiday egg, 1/2 for 2 old holiday eggs and all items found for 3 old holiday eggs. Maybe reward players with another old holiday egg for completing another available task, like the story/adventure we got for Christmas or Halloween.

 

 

Please take into account that these numbers are just made up out of thin air, the actual numbers might be quite different. I'd still like to see some kind of exponential growth for unlimited mini games, though.

I don't know where you got the idea of "only 2 growing things per breed (save Halloweens)" being the limit, but I certainly did not propose it. I have said it before, and I'll say it again: current limits on CB holidays would remain intact. In other words, you will never have more than 2 CBs per breed for Valentine's and winter holiday dragons.

 

The extra biome was a random thought I tossed at there to try to satisfy people on your side who would rather they be made common, because, logistically, you can't have holidays dropping for a week at a common rate without clogging the cave, since users will fill up on them, and then they will sit for long periods of time, like during new holiday releases. I would rather it not come to that, and that it stick to the original suggestion.

 

Also, side note: This suggestions was not and has never been about making holidays available to newer players, though that certainly is one positive aspect of it. It is about keeping enough CB holidays on active scrolls so that low gens of old breeds don't go extinct. Yes, it also opens up that opportunity to new players, but more importantly, it addresses the issue of older players going inactive without over-inflating the system or dramatically altering gameplay (like a shop that assigns monetary value to all breeds and entirely destroys the fully barter-based economy we enjoy on DC).

 

Would newer players who are faster clickers get them first and more reliably? Yes. But that's how DC is, and has always been. I don't understand how, "But faster clickers will get them!" works as an argument--that's what DC is. DC is not a socialist game--the game has never just handed everyone the eggs equally. You have to catch them, or trade for them, or be lucky enough to be gifted them.

 

EDIT: I suspect nobody replied to that quote because it is very off-topic from this suggestion. Feel free to go make a suggestion thread for those on their own, but I personally do not agree with them--that's trying to make DC into something it's not.

Edited June 16, 2015 by PieMaster

[Thuban]

On one hand, I really like Cinnimon's suggestion of having the older ones drop when breeding opens and then just having them switch when its time for the current years to drop. It satisfies my"i dont want to have to hunt around older holidays to get what I need" complaint. Its got some pros to it..and some drawbacks.

 

Pro:

*Gives "newer" members the chance to get cbs of what they missed.

*Does not interfere with hunting of current holiday.

*does not really require any new mechanics.

*Gives chance at biome specific cbs for those users who need them for lineage purposes. (they would have to release to do this though, if they are at limits...)

 

Con:

*It would ruin the cave for those people hoping to catch last minute eggs for trade fodder towards bred things, or own needs.

 

Compromise:

Have the holiday eggs drop for an hour in each biome (rotating). Probably a pain to code, but it would allow Holiday hunters to have reliable hunting throughout the week, and standard cave hunters to still do their thing up until the current ones take over the cave.

[Pixxelation]

Hm, I just got a new idea. What if, on the third day of the new holiday drop, the other holidays mixed in? Idk how that would work for Halloween unless the drop was extended by a day, but that /could/ work for the other two; it'd address both the issue of hunting them and clogging the Cave (since the Cave would already be clogged anyway).

[Tehya Faye]

It would definitely give us something to look forward to on the third day of the Christmas/Valentine's drops. I like it; it would avoid the AP wall issue handily for those two holidays.

Edited June 17, 2015 by Tehya Faye

[Jazeki]

Hm, I just got a new idea. What if, on the third day of the new holiday drop, the other holidays mixed in? Idk how that would work for Halloween unless the drop was extended by a day, but that /could/ work for the other two; it'd address both the issue of hunting them and clogging the Cave (since the Cave would already be clogged anyway).

I like this idea and Cinnamin's.

 

But again, if the direction of the idea starts getting overly complicated for my tastes, I'd rather just wait it out and have past holidays become available by some other means like HMs or in a store.

[kitsune93]

I would love to see old holidays get rereleased.

Having them drop on the last day seems like the best idea.

[shanique]

I don't see how limits can be done without walls forming. Rather than focus on Holly and Next Christmas also consider Ribbon Dancer and 3 years. The dragons always multiply by the scrolls space does not.

 

Problem we had in the past, Lack of Holly Dragons. Resolved via HM prizes. Now people want more than Hollies, they want CBs.

 

Problem we had in the past. Lineaged eggs being deleted due to the cave cleaner and dieing in the AP causing people to stop breeding. Solved by removed the Holiday limits for lineaged eggs.

 

Perceived problem. 89 Despis. There's a focus on the end result rather than the work required to get it.

A. Anyone that tries to get this is going to be trading or IOUing for a long time.

B. They'll have to find traders willing to IOU etc that do not have their scrolls full of their own favorites.

C. The timing required for this kind of feat is insane. It works when the eggs are readily available and can be gamed when hatching so as to trade off at teh right moment before growing. Without a steady supply of eggs and people online that can make this happen, it doesn't work. I'd guess it's the mainstay of people who only collect 2 sprites.

D. I didn't see anyone lose out on Despis, which is why I say perceived.

 

Metal Boom 2013. When the boom happened and metals were easier to catch, they dropped at the rate of about 3 per hour. So, if eggs were mixed in they'd need to be a bit higher than that.

 

Personally I'd leave the Holidays as they are and re-release every past holiday for three days for DC's 10th anniversary event. No limits. People would have to choose which one is most important to them. And if they can get 89, more power to them.

Well, in case of doubt there's also the frustration of other players over the IOU not getting picked up bc the collector is waiting for their own dragons to grow. More rage-inducing material.

 

I really like the other suggestion though! Just releasing them all in the cave on the 10th birthday! All holidays in one.

[olympe]

Hm, I just got a new idea. What if, on the third day of the new holiday drop, the other holidays mixed in? Idk how that would work for Halloween unless the drop was extended by a day, but that /could/ work for the other two; it'd address both the issue of hunting them and clogging the Cave (since the Cave would already be clogged anyway).

Since when do Valentine and Halloween dragons drop for more than 24 hours?

 

I don't know where you got the idea of "only 2 growing things per breed (save Halloweens)" being the limit, but I certainly did not propose it. I have said it before, and I'll say it again: current limits on CB holidays would remain intact. In other words, you will never have more than 2 CBs per breed for Valentine's and winter holiday dragons.

And other people suggested anything from no limits to 2 growing things per breed and year to keeping current limits and even limit Halloweens. Your opinion and ideas aren't the only ones out there, and, obviously, I was addressing some of the others.

[Pixxelation]

Valentine's dropped for three days this year and I believe the year before. Halloweens only drop for 24 hours as of now, which is why I said it would only work if Halloween's drop was extended a day :3

 

~

 

As I said, I was only skimming and did not know if someone had suggested that earlier. However, that is still not the primary suggestion, which you seemed to be addressing it as, hence my response. I made this thread with the current limits in mind, and do not intend to change it to be a joint suggestion for raising limits on CBs as well.

[Kith]

Since when do Valentine and Halloween dragons drop for more than 24 hours?

Last year's Valentine drop lasted 3 days, if I recall correctly.

[cyradis4]

Valentine's dropped for three days this year and I believe the year before. Halloweens only drop for 24 hours as of now, which is why I said it would only work if Halloween's drop was extended a day :3

 

~

 

As I said, I was only skimming and did not know if someone had suggested that earlier. However, that is still not the primary suggestion, which you seemed to be addressing it as, hence my response. I made this thread with the current limits in mind, and do not intend to change it to be a joint suggestion for raising limits on CBs as well.

We could change Halloween to a 2 day drop, with the 2nd day a mix. The 3 day drop would allow almost everyone who wanted to to full up on the new Halloweens a 2nd time. So with 2 days (2nd mixed), that would mean people would have to choose between 7 news and some olds.... That would place a nice premium on the older ones.

 

Mind, I'm not opposed to lengthening the drop to 3 days, not in the least! I think its a great idea, myself. I'd have to do ever so much less trading to reach the 20 I've been aiming for recently.....

 

~~~

 

Now, thinking about converting the last day of the drops to mixed.... So long as the mix was decent (common for old, blocker-esk for new), then I think reducing multi-clutches from 4 to 3 would be ok, AFTER the first year. I would not go lower than 3, though (at least not at first), as that would harm the players who have the most trouble catching nice stuff the rest of the year. And that first year is likely to be..... Interesting, anyway!

 

Mind, what I would do, if the 3rd / 2nd day was converted / added:

- 1st year: No change to multi-clutches, keep the limit at 4. The new CBs won't be breeding this year.... So keep the AP supply up.

- 2nd year: Drop multi-clutch to 3, and see how it works out. If things seem ok, do nothing. If there are an absurd number of eggs, then drop multi-clutches to 2.

- 3rd year: evaluate again.

 

This sort of idea is going to be brutal to balance.... So err on the side of too many eggs those first 2 years, I'd say. And see how things work. We may find that even without this, we are drowning in Halloweens.

 

I really like the idea of having the old CBs drop on the last day, even if they are uncommon / rare. But not if it cuts into the multi-clutches too much.

 

Cheers!

C4.

[Obscure_Trash]

I don't particularly want this (and I have a few holidays I don't have cbs of), but I guess I don't have a good reason to say no to it.

 

~

 

If it is implemented, I agree with keeping regular cb limits and only having the drop for as long as that holiday's drop usually is.

I don't agree with dropping them in the AP - confusion city even for older players.

I know some people like the option of hunting non-holidays during the holidays. Is the suggestion as it stands to have old cbs mixed in with regular drops (ie is that what's meant by uncommon drops)? After three years (or so), do the old dragons drop every year after that as well? What exactly is the purpose of the wait to rerelease?

[FoxintheBox4]

Since these holidays releases usually last 3 days I would be up for the last day to add the past holidays aswell as new one in the drop

[Pixxelation]

Sockie: It is to either have them drop uncommonly during the week of holiday breeding, or mix in on the last day of the ew drop (extending Halloween by a day) at a common-to-uncommon rate. The purpose of the three years is to provide incentive to be there for the new release and because there won't be enough of a difference in active users before then for low-gens to start to diminish in circulation. They would stay every year after the three years.

 

Keep in mind that this benefits lineages with CBs in the base, as well; certain lines are nigh-impossible to build at the moment due to the low amount of active users who have CB Yulebucks or Hollies, for example.

 

~

 

Cyradis: I think it would be better to start by reducing chances of 4-egg-clutches in the second year, rather than completely dropping them. Also, if the eggs were dropped on the last day of the drop (with the one-day-extension to Halloween), it helps fix the issue because the eggs would be dropped after breeding ends, which means they wouldn't get in the way of the wall as much.

 

Also, I agree with your reasoning for only extending Halloween by one day--that's why I originally said to add only one, haha; otherwise, people can go back for seconds, which I'm assuming is not desired based on the fact that Halloween is the only holiday that still only drops one day.

Edited June 17, 2015 by PieMaster

[Vhale]

Since these holidays releases usually last 3 days I would be up for the last day to add the past holidays aswell as new one in the drop

Agreed, I think this would solve the issue with walls forming.

 

As an aside, I think Halloweens did drop longer during the hurricane as TJ extended it for people in dire straits. The breeding period was longer. Much trading was had and gifting was done for those without power. It was quite glorious.

[EmmieSage]

I definitely support this idea. I also think this is a much better solution for people who support unfreezing previously frozen hatchlings because the want 2 adult CB holiday dragons. (I'm looking at you, frozen Solstice hatchling I froze before reading the new limit rules. And you, my only CB adult Solstice who refused my CB Soulpeace).

 

Having old holiday releases mixing in with the regular drop in the week leading up to said holiday is a really neat idea, except if Halloweens remain unlimited and mix in with the regular drop I can see this becoming an absolute blood bath! Releasing old holiday's to mix in with the new holiday drop on the last day also works and I think would somewhat lessen the insanity of trying to get Halloweens.

 

As much as I'd like a limit on Halloweens to give everyone a better chance at grabbing a few, I don't think it makes much sense given they have never been limited before and the reason behind there unlimited nature.

[Tawanda001]

Hm, I just got a new idea. What if, on the third day of the new holiday drop, the other holidays mixed in? Idk how that would work for Halloween unless the drop was extended by a day, but that /could/ work for the other two; it'd address both the issue of hunting them and clogging the Cave (since the Cave would already be clogged anyway).

perhaps I should be a little less wordy and people might take the time to read my posts?

blah, blah, blah....

 

*I'd rather not see them as uncommon or rare. I think that sort of defeats the purpose of getting them into the hands of newer players. I do think they would be used as trade fodder and there just aren't that many newer players that have the sort of things to trade for rare or uncommon eggs.

IMO the new CBs that sit forever at the end of the holiday breeding period could benefit by having the old CB breeds start mixing in with them on the fourth day or so, maybe the older the breed the slightly more rare they are? For every holly that drops maybe there are three yules, six ribbon dancers and eight mistletoes, or something along those lines.

 

[Syphoneira]

Tawanda001: '... *I'd rather not see them as uncommon or rare. I think that sort of defeats the purpose of getting them into the hands of newer players. I do think they would be used as trade fodder and there just aren't that many newer players that have the sort of things to trade for rare or uncommon eggs.

IMO the new CBs that sit forever at the end of the holiday breeding period could benefit by having the old CB breeds start mixing in with them on the fourth day or so, maybe the older the breed the slightly more rare they are? For every holly that drops maybe there are three yules, six ribbon dancers and eight mistletoes, or something along those lines.'

 

 

 

 

 

Lol, personally, I'd rather see it the other way around, since people within the general membership are overall least likely to have the oldest CB Holidays, so that the more recent ones, if in larger quantities, might have the potential to help plug up the works in an already by-then virtually unmoving Cave plugged up with New Release Holidays for the odd late-comer/person locked with breds until the last day, to prevent anything people might want/be able to take from getting through at all, making the oldest Holidays even rarer by being so blocked off behind other Holidays people on may not be able to to pick up even to drop and perhaps only available during shuffles IF turning up then.

 

And it would be nice for both old and new members to have some slim chance of getting older Holidays they've missed out on, whereas players having two of the more recent ones (whether originally or just acquired) wouldn't, as stated, even be able to pick up the ones they were maxed out on to drop them to the AP to clear them out and make the biomes move even by a single egg during that proposed one-day period of high competition in likely a VERY slow-moving Cave, where any CB Holly showing would assuredly be picked up not by the newest or the average player, but the fastest, since so few would show at all that the average person with slower refreshes likely would never even see them - just as with Golds.

 

(I'm assuming that you meant the New Releases in the Cave, although the [edit: mentions of '... the new CBs that sit forever at the end of the holiday breeding period ...' together with] '... on the fourth day or so ...' make it sound to me as though you're perhaps referring to the AP? Clearly I need more coffee and a lot of help, lol.)

 

But I really don't see why restrictive ratios should apply to Holiday breeds which can only reproduce their sprite once a year during a very brief period - but which can produce pretty checkers year round, when paired with dragons which can reproduce normally.

 

And I think we'd all rather rather not see the older breeds diminish/go extinct... why not build up their populations and give everyone a chance at them, especially the iconic Holly of which so few of the few CBs doled out originally or in HMs remain?

 

(Disclosure: I'm personally still selfishly hoping to, one year or another, snag the 2nd gen Holly w/Whites of my dreams out of the AP, lol, if much less desperately now that I have even-gens; something far more likely, I'd think, with more Hollies in the breeding pool. So there I have self-interest involved - as do many other people with specific pairings in mind.)

Edited June 21, 2015 by Syphoneira

[Tawanda001]

Lol, personally, I'd rather see it the other way around, since people within the general membership are overall least likely to have the oldest CB Holidays, so that the more recent ones, if in larger quantities, might have the potential to help plug up the works in an already by-then virtually unmoving Cave

ER yes, I meant new holiday releases, in biomes, at the end of the drop period (whether that's the third day or the fifth or whatever)

 

And I was thinking about the possible need for it to be the other way around, but I think it might be a bit of a balance. Unless the idea of the older holidays becoming as common as dirt is appealing?

I don't know, I kind of like the idea that some dragons are a bit harder to get than others, as long as they aren't insanely hard to get like metals. I'd be fine if hollies were about as hard to catch as blusangs, GW or ices maybe, while the newer holiday dragons were easier to catch. It gets the older holiday dragons out there but takes a little effort to get one.

I have the feeling the newest players without any holiday dragons would probably be just as content to grab the more recent holidays if they are a bit easier to find. With scroll limits what they are it's not like they can get one of everything anyway. The players looking for holidays they might have missed out on would just have to battle it like we do now over coppers and pyrals, lol.

[Ayelldee]

If you missed the Original Release of Holidays, why should a CB be made available? I missed out on the July 4 little icon, ok, I'm mature enough to say, "Well, I missed out." Not gimme one too, I deserve everything everyone else has, so I demand it. Some other person has a perfect body, I don't SO GIVE ME ONE! Somebody else has lots of money, not me, I DEMAND IT! Someone other than I has more talent, GIMME!

 

Sometimes you don't get everything you want. That's the way things work around the Universe. You're not just handed every little thing your heart suddenly desires.

 

Sorry if this comes off as combative, but the 'I get a trophy too, just for showing up' mentality is really taking over too much.

[Pixxelation]

That's not at all the point of this suggestion. This isn't about making CBs available to new players--though it certainly does. It's about keeping CBs in circulation so that lower gen holidays are still produced. As older players retire from the game, 2nd gens, 3rd gens, etc. become harder and harder to come by. It's an issue that is going to have to be addressed one way or another eventually. That's why I made this suggestion--it fights that issue without just handing the CBs to anyone who missed the release.

[NotBambi]

Fully agreed with PieMaster here: there's no "vets" against "newbies" stance. IMO there's just the need to have enough blood lines to allow for lineages to grow and/or be created. And, as said previously, "vets" would benefit since "newbies" avoid trading with them because they can't have holiday mates to continue lineages.

Edited June 28, 2015 by NotBambi

[dragongrrl]

If you missed the Original Release of Holidays, why should a CB be made available? I missed out on the July 4 little icon, ok, I'm mature enough to say, "Well, I missed out." Not gimme one too, I deserve everything everyone else has, so I demand it. Some other person has a perfect body, I don't SO GIVE ME ONE! Somebody else has lots of money, not me, I DEMAND IT! Someone other than I has more talent, GIMME!

 

Sometimes you don't get everything you want. That's the way things work around the Universe. You're not just handed every little thing your heart suddenly desires.

 

Sorry if this comes off as combative, but the 'I get a trophy too, just for showing up' mentality is really taking over too much.

I don't tend to whine about things I can't have, and often take the position you are taking here, since the whines about Golds or Prizes, well, that's a different discussion. Rare is rare.

 

However, I didn't miss the release of the Marrows, but I couldn't catch a single one, and it was pre-Teleport, so I had no way to trade for one either, since my catching skills and computer speeds just weren't enough to land one. I spent 12 hours trying in vain that day to catch one, and watching for 14 days after, trying to grab one from the AP, if possible. I was there, saddened at being unable to catch any of them, and if this would allow me to finally get CBs of the sublime Marrows, to add to the available breeding stock, then, please, let this happen.

 

Thank you, PieMaster, for suggesting this. <3

[NotBambi]

Bumping this up since it is an alternative to a topic being currently discussed.