Holiday Rereleases

[dragongrrl]

I still don't support this. They were made Limited Editions for a reason. By bringing them back, it takes away from that. I'm sorry, it's still sounds like GIMMEE GIMMEE to me.

My scroll dates from September of 2010. I've worked hard to get the collection I have at this point, all 5,167 of them. I suffered through the nightmare of Halloween 2010, tyring for any and every Marrow I saw. I ended up with a single, 2nd gen Pumpkin and no Marrows after the two weeks of their possible growth period had passed. It was heartbreaking that someone should click many thousands of times, and come away with nothing. I want what ever it takes to get those CB Marrows on my scroll at last!

 

And I did see generous help with older Christmas and Valentine dragons, but my experience, with a couple of rare exceptions, is that Halloween is extremely, viciously cutthroat, and ruled by the traders. While I've managed to get 3, (2 in 2011, 1 in 2013,) I am still struggling to get 2nd gen PB Marrows, because extremely aggressive traders seem to have beaten me to any that may exist.

[Obscure_Trash]

I don't support this at all.

 

Why? Because I worked hard to get the CB holidays I have, for one thing, for another why should my efforts be negated because little Suzie & Johnny want what I have, but don't want to work for it? I was here for 09 Valentines, but I couldn't catch a single one! I was upset, but imagine my joy the following year when peeps bred them & tossed eggs in the AP! I snatched my 2 & was very happy with them!

A lot of your assumptions are kind of erroneous considering a lot of people supporting this suggestion are people who were here and have most cb holidays.

 

As well, while you may have worked hard to get your cb holidays (and rares), I don't think I did. I was here at the right time and right place. I clicked a button a few times and got lucky. It was lucky that I had already joined the game. It was lucky that I clicked at the right moment. The one cb silver and two cb golds (one of which was gifted) I have caught myself I also put down to luck. I was refreshing at the right time and right place. Do I not deserve to have those sprites because I didn't work hard for them, even though I was the one doing the catching? While I do not particularly support (although nor particularly fight against either) rereleasing old holidays, I fundamentally disagree with the idea that "I worked hard for this so other people don't deserve it". It's kind of an insidious little belief. In any case, people may very well have to work hard to catch these cb holidays if they are rereleased. They'll still be doing the work to catch - do they deserve them now? They worked hard, after all.

[cyradis4]

A lot of your assumptions are kind of erroneous considering a lot of people supporting this suggestion are people who were here and have most cb holidays.

 

As well, while you may have worked hard to get your cb holidays (and rares), I don't think I did. I was here at the right time and right place. I clicked a button a few times and got lucky. It was lucky that I had already joined the game. It was lucky that I clicked at the right moment. The one cb silver and two cb golds (one of which was gifted) I have caught myself I also put down to luck. I was refreshing at the right time and right place. Do I not deserve to have those sprites because I didn't work hard for them, even though I was the one doing the catching? While I do not particularly support (although nor particularly fight against either) rereleasing old holidays, I fundamentally disagree with the idea that "I worked hard for this so other people don't deserve it". It's kind of an insidious little belief. In any case, people may very well have to work hard to catch these cb holidays if they are rereleased. They'll still be doing the work to catch - do they deserve them now? They worked hard, after all.

I agree with Sock, here. I (vaguely) remember having to spend a bit of time getting the Marrows, and the double row of eggs toward the end. Other than that... Most of the releases were pretty easy for me.

 

While I'd prefer to have something like the old Honorable Mentions or a lotto or a store, I'd be ok with this.... And I have all the Holidays in CB version since Pumpkins on Halloween 2009.

 

Right now, only the Hollies are suffering from severe scarcity. But it won't be long before 2nd gen Yulebucks and Val 09s join the Hollies. And not long after that that 2nd gen Pumpkins, Snow Angels, and Sweetlings will also start to be very hard to find. While I have no objection to owning a money printer, I'd much rather have the CBs common enough that I and others can build lineages with them.

 

Cheers!

C4.

[Fuzzbucket]

I remember those marrows. That was the ONLY holiday that was EVER "hard work" to be honest. I got my two pairs, and if other people want their own - I don't care. But I DO think there needs to be a limit, so that fast clickers can't snag the lot.

[olympe]

I remember those marrows. That was the ONLY holiday that was EVER "hard work" to be honest. I got my two pairs, and if other people want their own - I don't care. But I DO think there needs to be a limit, so that fast clickers can't snag the lot.

Sweetlings weren't exactly easy, either. Quite the contrary. And I remember that quite a few people had bad trouble catching their fill of Snow Angels. (Heck, I tried to gift one - way back, before teleport. Of course, the egg went astray. Luckily, I found another one a couple of days later in the AP that nobody seemed to want back.)

[kiramaru7]

I still feel that those dragons are limited editions & they shouldn't be rereleased. I'm sorry that everyone else here feels otherwise, but I'm entitled to my opinion just like everyone else is. I really feel like we're handing out stuff to keep the whiners quiet & that bothers me on so many levels.

 

I couldn't get a Valentine from '09 & I was here trying my best to get my 2 too, but I couldn't get one, so I picked up messy ones the following year & never once did I feel like I was owed a CB one cuz I couldn't grab one. That was part of the game & it honestly doesn't bother me in the least that I never got a CB.

 

The comment about someone 10 years from now wanting CBs of previous holidays, I fail to see why they are entitled to a limited edition of something, just cuz they happened to join later on. Then what's the point of having limited editions? Why not just make holidays breed themselves all year round & drop in the cave like everything else. Then if you join tomorrow, no worries, it's still dropping.

 

Seriously, this is just another example of the sense of entitlement that I see EVERYWHERE & it disgusts me. You weren't here or couldn't get one, that's just too bad. End of story.

[Obscure_Trash]

I still feel that those dragons are limited editions & they shouldn't be rereleased. I'm sorry that everyone else here feels otherwise, but I'm entitled to my opinion just like everyone else is. I really feel like we're handing out stuff to keep the whiners quiet & that bothers me on so many levels.

 

I couldn't get a Valentine from '09 & I was here trying my best to get my 2 too, but I couldn't get one, so I picked up messy ones the following year & never once did I feel like I was owed a CB one cuz I couldn't grab one. That was part of the game & it honestly doesn't bother me in the least that I never got a CB.

 

The comment about someone 10 years from now wanting CBs of previous holidays, I fail to see why they are entitled to a limited edition of something, just cuz they happened to join later on. Then what's the point of having limited editions? Why not just make holidays breed themselves all year round & drop in the cave like everything else. Then if you join tomorrow, no worries, it's still dropping.

 

Seriously, this is just another example of the sense of entitlement that I see EVERYWHERE & it disgusts me. You weren't here or couldn't get one, that's just too bad. End of story.

I have not seen anybody here whining.

 

You are entitled to your opinion - but so are others. There is no need for this discussion to get so personal.

 

I also don't agree with your definition of them being limited editions. They are limited edition, yes, but they are available once a year every single year. What's tye huge difference really about offering lineaged vs cbs?

[Kith]

The comment about someone 10 years from now wanting CBs of previous holidays, I fail to see why they are entitled to a limited edition of something, just cuz they happened to join later on. Then what's the point of having limited editions? Why not just make holidays breed themselves all year round & drop in the cave like everything else. Then if you join tomorrow, no worries, it's still dropping.

No, I didn't say that people 10 years from now were entitled to CBs. I asked if they should be limited to continuing the sorts of lineages I stipulated due to player attrition, which assumes that the newbies are picking up AP eggs. I also asked how you would address the shrinking breeding pool over the years if not by introducing new CBs somehow.

[Tehya Faye]

Yeah, I'm fine if I don't personally get any CB old holidays. It's be a shame, sure, but the point of this suggestion is to keep 2nd gens from going practically extinct as users leave DC for one reason or another. It does come with a snag, though, in the loss of our current multiclutch system.

 

I wonder if TJ would ever raffle off a number of CB old holidays when the populations get too low. It could be nice to have something like that a couple weeks before the holiday week, and since it's limiting the number of CBs to an amount TJ personally picks we wouldn't have to lose our multiclutches. The winners would be perfectly random, too, so the eggs wouldn't just go to people with fast internet.

[Stormcaller]

The comment about someone 10 years from now wanting CBs of previous holidays, I fail to see why they are entitled to a limited edition  of something, just cuz they happened to join later on.

I must say that I agree with kiramaru7.

 

I like the idea of having something "special;" to have something that not everyone has. Why not allow those who were here during a certain period of time (and lucky enough to catch their eggs) to have that limited number as a reward?

 

Edit:

No, I didn't say that people 10 years from now were entitled to CBs. I asked if they should be limited to continuing the sorts of lineages I stipulated due to player attrition, which assumes that the newbies are picking up AP eggs. I also asked how you would address the shrinking breeding pool over the years if not by introducing new CBs somehow.

 

No problem here. Just put them in a "Hall of Fame" and refer to them with all the respect due to our lost elders. With all the new releases, there is no need to keep all the old ones active.

Edited August 11, 2015 by Stormcaller

[Kith]

I also asked how you would address the shrinking breeding pool over the years if not by introducing new CBs somehow.

Wanted to clarify that "they should be happy with the ones they get regardless of the lineages they want to make" is a valid response, since that would mean that the person with that opinion doesn't see a shrinking breeding pool as an issue in the first place.

[kiramaru7]

I asked if they should be limited to continuing the sorts of lineages I stipulated due to player attrition, which assumes that the newbies are picking up AP eggs. I also asked how you would address the shrinking breeding pool over the years if not by introducing new CBs somehow.

Since I only breed what I have if I need something I can't find in the cave or AP for my scroll needs, & during holidays to give to others, I have no answers for you. I don't spend hours making lineages, although I do try to continue a nice lineage when I can.

 

Also what I don't understand is why someone would intentionally make a lineage knowing there's a finite "gene-pool." If the limit on CBs for Christmas & Valentine's Day is 2 CBs then that kind of limits you as to what you can do with them, no?

 

Maybe instead of limiting them to 2, they should be a regular part of the cave after that initial drop (where you can only get 2) to celebrate the holiday. After that first drop, you can grab as many as you want. To me that makes more sense, being allowed 2 weeks or so after the holiday to grab as many CBs as you want, which makes it easier to use them in lineage projects. Unless as someone who doesn't make lineage projects, I'm missing something.

 

I still find this to be give-me-cuz-I'm-entitled-to-it-ness, which I find distasteful to the nth degree. I'm sorry, but that's what it feels like to me.

[Tehya Faye]

People like to make projects out of holidays because they're fun. It's slow and a little limiting, but you get some really beautiful lineages out of it. To a lot of people lineage building is a huge part of the game, and naturally they'll want to come up with something amazing for our holiday breeds. That's a significant part of the fun of holidays for quite a few people.

[kiramaru7]

People like to make projects out of holidays because they're fun. It's slow and a little limiting, but you get some really beautiful lineages out of it. To a lot of people lineage building is a huge part of the game, and naturally they'll want to come up with something amazing for our holiday breeds. That's a significant part of the fun of holidays for quite a few people.

I get that they're fun, but if you only have 2 CBs of something, what's the point? You can't go further with it.

[Tehya Faye]

Sure you can! You just need to hunt down mates in the AP or track down people willing to help out via gifts or bloodswaps.

[dragongrrl]

I get that they're fun, but if you only have 2 CBs of something, what's the point? You can't go further with it.

If I gave up because I couldn't get CBs or 2nd gens of the Marrows, I would never have bred her, one of my favorite dragons. But she sure makes me wish I had the CBs or 2nd gens to build her a mate.

 

I have this dragon and this beauty because people who had no more than 2 CBs apiece worked together to create these beautiful lines. They didn't give up. <3

[Vhale]

http://dragcave.net/lineage/bZ0kE

 

And yet, I have one CB Sweetling. I actually caught two, but I gave up one before the limits were lifted so as to build this lineage.

 

Personally I think every 5-10 years should see a re-release. It's good for the gene pool and what happened with the Hollys HM Prizes was great. It keeps them as a special event and the sheer number of them would limit what people pick up via scroll limits.

 

As far as "entitled" One could as easily argue that the whole "But I worked so hard" argument amounts to hazing.

[Fuzzbucket]

I get that they're fun, but if you only have 2 CBs of something, what's the point? You can't go further with it.

Sure you can. You trade.

 

http://dragcave.net/lineage/lVJc7

http://dragcave.net/lineage/mROu7

http://dragcave.net/lineage/MlDcE

http://dragcave.net/lineage/vv8NP

 

(All contributions welcome !) MOST of the CBs in those aren't actually mine, as mine are in another section - I WILL get to 5th gen if it kills me.

 

But they get harder with older holidays as - yes, player attrition.

 

If I gave up because I couldn't get CBs or 2nd gens of the Marrows, I would never have bred her, one of my favorite dragons. But she sure makes me wish I had the CBs or 2nd gens to build her a mate.

 

I have this dragon and this beauty because people who had no more than 2 CBs apiece worked together to create these beautiful lines. They didn't give up. <3

Hm. Can we talk - I have just started on that checker - I have - ONE 2 gen Yulebuck.

 

And NO CBs, nor (I assume) will I ever have. But I shall still carry on.

Edited August 12, 2015 by fuzzbucket

[olympe]

I get that they're fun, but if you only have 2 CBs of something, what's the point? You can't go further with it.

Yes, we can! And these are just some examples that are either on my scroll or bred there. Any questions?

 

(*cough* Anybody interested in bloodswaps? *cough*)

Edited August 12, 2015 by olympe

[Fuzzbucket]

Yes, we can! And these are just some examples that are either on my scroll or bred there. Any questions?

 

(*cough* Anybody interested in bloodswaps? *cough*)

Er - yes.... I will research and get back to you !

 

But I think the point has been made - as long as there ARE people out there who still have CBs, this can be done by trading. What will royally screw it up will be when there AREN'T players around with CBs any more.

[CNR4806]

I still don't support this. They were made Limited Editions for a reason. By bringing them back, it takes away from that. I'm sorry, it's still sounds like GIMMEE GIMMEE to me.

As much as I'm leaning toward opposing this, please do tell us about this reason.

 

 

In any case, the sprites are never going to discontinue themselves in the current system given the breeding rates (which turned Hollies from unobtainium to something affordable through all these years, mind you). It is only when lineage is considered where a re-release might be considered beneficial.

[cyradis4]

I get that they're fun, but if you only have 2 CBs of something, what's the point? You can't go further with it.

I'll add my own favorite, that I'll be getting to 5th gen soon:

http://dragcave.net/lineage/LtKdi

And I don't even *own* CB Val 09s.

 

I have 137 lineaged Christmas and Valentines dragons, 133 lineaged Halloween dragons, 24 CB Christmas / Valentines, and 80 CB Halloweens (all breeds combined).

 

Of that impressive number of lineaged Holidays (270 all told), the vast majority are lineages which have dragons that aren't on my scroll in them. I traded for the eggs, or picked them out of the AP. And of the 80 CB Halloweens, most were traded for, anyway.

 

(BTW, anyone in search of Holiday lines I'm happy to breed, all my Holidays are on my first 2 / 3 pages of my scroll depending on dragons / page settings).

 

So yes, there is a point. And while Hollies are starting to become more available, a large part of that revival is because of the HM Hollies.

 

Cheers!

C4.

[Amazon_warrior]

Oooo, are we showing off Holiday lineages now? This Christmas, I will be able to breed a perfect 5G Holly/White checker and also an unrelated 4G, and if I could just find one last unrelated 3G White to breed with him, I could be shooting for 6G the following year. IIRC, all those Hollies were AP finds - I didn't trade for or breed any of them myself. The 3G Whites were both very kind gifts. And this is just one example on my scroll, albeit probably one of the more impressive (though I'm damn proud of my Marrow/Shimmer checker, due to hit 4G this Halloween). Something I really look forward to during DC Holidays is breeding dragons with pretty/unusual lineages and then seeing who they end up homing with.

 

That's all nice though, but with the best will in the world no one can turn a 3G Holly/White checker into a 4G Holly/Gold stair. The issue with this suggestion seems to be striking a a balance between "finding pretty AP/trade lineages" and "being able to create new lineages". Do we value the sprite only, or the sprite with a specific lineage? (I know that most people commenting here, including myself, definitely prefer the latter, but it cannot be assumed that this applies to the majority of the site.) Where should the mechanics of the game itself stand on this? Because I think that's what this thread is asking. Honestly, I'd quite like to see a balance between the two extremes - some new blood, some pretty AP lineages. If an in-cave re-release of CB Holidays meant no (or effectively no) more Holiday multiclutches, then I'm not sure I'd want it. I'd probably prefer a return of HM prizes or some manner of shop arrangement.

 

If CB Holidays were re-released in-cave, I imagine that things would be pretty mad for the first few seasons as everyone stormed to snatch up the older, rarer breeds (Holly/Yule/Val '09/Pumpkin), but if the limit on Christmas/Valentine CBs is held at 2 only, then once you've got your two CB Hollies (or whatever you needed) and you're all caught up on newer Holidays by virtue of having been there for them, then you won't be hunting for any more CBs, you'll be focussed on using those CBs to make... pretty lineages, probably. Halloween presents something of a problem in that Halloween CBs typically have no limits (I think the original Vamps were limited? Maybe?), so do you let anyone and everyone fill their boots with CBs year on year to the complete detriment of AP'ed clutches? Tricky....

[CNR4806]

And while Hollies are starting to become more available, a large part of that revival is because of the HM Hollies.

 

The case with the Hollies was a bit special due to the ridiculously low starting population, and I still doubt the Holly sprite would have discontinued itself without the HM injections. As long as there are hollies being bred, their population will grow significantly every year, and they would be just as readily available as they are right now, after a few more years of natural population boom.

 

There is no point in re-releasing any of the past holidays unless you're specifically gunning for some kind of lineage, be it the now-unobtainable CB or the maybe-hard-to-find low gens.

 

 

EDIT: Further trimmed the quote. Let me know if I quoted and replied out of context.

Edited August 12, 2015 by CNR4806

[RecycledHeart]

I still feel that those dragons are limited editions & they shouldn't be rereleased. I'm sorry that everyone else here feels otherwise, but I'm entitled to my opinion just like everyone else is. I really feel like we're handing out stuff to keep the whiners quiet & that bothers me on so many levels.

 

I couldn't get a Valentine from '09 & I was here trying my best to get my 2 too, but I couldn't get one, so I picked up messy ones the following year & never once did I feel like I was owed a CB one cuz I couldn't grab one. That was part of the game & it honestly doesn't bother me in the least that I never got a CB.

 

The comment about someone 10 years from now wanting CBs of previous holidays, I fail to see why they are entitled to a limited edition of something, just cuz they happened to join later on. Then what's the point of having limited editions? Why not just make holidays breed themselves all year round & drop in the cave like everything else. Then if you join tomorrow, no worries, it's still dropping.

 

Seriously, this is just another example of the sense of entitlement that I see EVERYWHERE & it disgusts me. You weren't here or couldn't get one, that's just too bad. End of story.

I haven't seen any whining or gimme attitude here. I think you might be slightly prejudiced for some reason. If they're released they're still going to have different dates from the originals AND the badges won't be used again. So we already have stuff that doesn't affect game play that is limited edition. And even if we have only 2 cbs we can trade with others to make lovely checkers and whatnot (lovely lineages everyone who presented~)

 

Holiday releases are nothing like they were years ago. It's so much calmer and nicer with the new holiday flooding the cave. It may not bother you to never have a cb but that is a personal preference. It bothers others who don't have a cb. It's not anyone's fault for joining at a later date. I didn't know this game existed years ago. I missed out on cb sweetlings, 09's, marrows and bright pinks and frills. Is that my fault? In no way it is. Should I not be given a chance to get what I missed?