Trader's Canyon

[NotBambi]

Repeatedly.

 

Frills, I'd think yes, because there's a strong chance they will be re-released as of Lyth's last communications.

 

Bright Pinks probably not, for the same reasons they aren't available in the Winter Raffles but Frills are.

 

Cheers!

C4.

Didn't the spriter of Bright Pinks said that she had no idea why they were discontinued? Didn't she say something to the effect about not being involved with DC? If those assumptions were correct, is there any reason why Bright Pinks should/could not be re-released?

[Thuban]

The original guidelines for what eggs could be dropped were "if it can be chosen as a Prize or HM, or picked up in the cave, then its allowed." However, cb hybrids are not an option. (I really wanted them to be, but I'll survive).

 

I figured, at the time, this was the absolute easiest way to handle "whats in there?"

I still think its the easiest way to go. Assume everything that qualifies under those guidelines, is available, just in case they are

[stagazer_7]

Considering different variations of mana shards - yes, this sounds cool, but it's overly complicated. I see nothing beneficial by having 10 different types of currency to collect, apart from extra work trying to gather them (and trying to code the system, so it would produce something moderately balanced and not make certain types of mana rare).

 

Gather 10 points/shards/any other name --> buy/summon/whatever we wish to call it/ dragon.

Not gather 3 fire shards, 2 water shards, 1 destruction shard, 1 ice shard, 3 life shards --> buy dragon

 

Why not try to make it as simple as possible and make them just plain mana shards - no elements, just points. 1 whatever dragon is worth 100 points or mana points or mana shards or cold hard cash, the name isn't really important (to me), as it's really all the same (to me - don't kill me pls).

 

And I agree with pretty much everything Olympe said considering Holidays as the rarity of older breeds will continue to increase over years (at least the rarity of low, neat lineages, I'm sure there will be many messy lines to collect if you're only after the sprite) - a solution to this could be this shop/trader.

 

The only thing I feel different about is awarding naming dragons with points, but not describing them - neither actions are really necessary to the game (well, naming is vitally necessary to my style of gameplay, but I digress), so I feel that if naming dragons would award points, then describing them (for the first time) should award them too as they're both pretty pointless and require at least a tiny amount of effort and creativity (descriptions even more then naming).

 

"if it can be chosen as a Prize or HM, or picked up in the cave, then its allowed."

I'm fine with this, it allows for a great variety of sweet things to choose from.

 

And yet I still want a CB Hellhorse.

[olympe]

Personally, I think that using Earthquake might be a bad choice for gaining points, as the BSA can be used on a scroll with no growing things on it. So, I'd rather say the result - the hatched dragon - should be the thing awarded. Which is already the case.

 

Biting, though... Maybe make it successful biting, including those eggs punted to the AP? It's the only way to make more vamps, and has a very long cooldown which ensures that it cannot be abused. The same goes for the killing result: After 7 kills, you cannot bite any more, cannot hatch anything and so on.

 

Either way, I'm not hung up on either thing. Same goes for naming, I simply included it for the benefit of people who want it.

 

I still think that awarding points for describing might be a bad idea due to everybody giving every dragon a short description of "this is dragon xxx. she likes ice cream."

 

Regarding a successful revive, I still think it's very unlikely for people to abuse it. For one, there's the kill limit. Second, revive doesn't work all that often. Third, if someone tries to kill and revive the same dragon again for whatever reason (bad memory?), they'll have an unpleasant surprise. Overall, it seems an unlikely candidate for abuse.

Edited November 26, 2015 by olympe

[stagazer_7]

Whops, I forgot to mention that I meant more along the lines of approved descriptions gaining points.

 

But I wouldn't really have any issues with non-mod approved descriptions awarding points either, even if it is a lazy, for points only, description like the very nice example Olympe presented. I feel this way, because naming could be just as easily used this way, I could name any of my dragons something completely random like 'Jjzjt' and still get a point. Lazy naming can be used for point gathering just as much as lazy descriptions, but as long as they can only be used once per dragon I don't see all that much wiggle space for abuse. I would be fine either way though. ^^

 

I'd like to see successful biting rewarding a point, even if the egg bounces , as it makes someone happy either way.

Edited November 26, 2015 by stagazer_7

[olympe]

You have a point about naming. I guess it would be better to not award points for either naming or describing then, even though doing proper descriptions for your dragons takes a lot of effort and creativity.

[stagazer_7]

I don't know, if there's a daily/weekly cap there's only that many points to be gathered by mass naming/describing, so this would limit any potential abuse. Even random naming and shortish descriptions mean that there was a bit of thought put into the dragon (sometimes a very tiny bit), same goes for describing - even if the dragon's only character trait is that it reeeealy loves ice-cream. Besides, I like to think positive and so I'd like to think of this as a little extra initiative for people to be creative and think of cool names and lore for their dragons.

 

Maybe I'm wrong, but I really feel that point gathering should be dirt easy, something extra gained simply by playing the game and doing all the things you usually do, hatching and raising dragons, naming, teleporting, incubating, influencing, this way it wouldn't feel like grinding and so would make any sort of abuse pretty unnecessary, simply because you'd fill your cap easily just by playing the game as you normally do. Especially if there'd be a daily/weekly cap - a player could decide to name all of their dragons in one swoop, but it wouldn't do any good as there's only be as many points to be gathered per day/week, consistency and dedication to DC would bring true awards. Very controversial I know and I don't expect many to agree with me on this one.

 

Mini games could be added, but they should be like any other point awarding scroll action and contribute just as much and not above the set cap. I'm pretty positive I wouldn't use them, but I imagine someone else may enjoy having them around to play while waiting for their eggs to hatch.

Edited November 26, 2015 by stagazer_7

[Tango]

What kind of minigames do you think would suit dragoncave? I've seen racing and fighting suggested before.

[AnanoKimi]

I don't know, if there's a daily/weekly cap there's only that many points to be gathered by mass naming/describing, so this would limit any potential abuse. Even random naming and shortish descriptions mean that there was a bit of thought put into the dragon (sometimes a very tiny bit), same goes for describing - even if the dragon's only character trait is that it reeeealy loves ice-cream. Besides, I like to think positive and so I'd like to think of this as a little extra initiative for people to be creative and think of cool names and lore for their dragons.

 

Maybe I'm wrong, but I really feel that point gathering should be dirt easy, something extra gained simply by playing the game and doing all the things you usually do, hatching and raising dragons, naming, teleporting, incubating, influencing, this way it wouldn't feel like grinding and so would make any sort of abuse pretty unnecessary, simply because you'd fill your cap easily just by playing the game as you normally do. Especially if there'd be a daily/weekly cap - a player could decide to name all of their dragons in one swoop, but it wouldn't do any good as there's only be as many points to be gathered per day/week, consistency and dedication to DC would bring true awards. Very controversial I know and I don't expect many to agree with me on this one.

 

Mini games could be added, but they should be like any other point awarding scroll action and contribute just as much and not above the set cap. I'm pretty positive I wouldn't use them, but I imagine someone else may enjoy having them around to play while waiting for their eggs to hatch.

If point earning is dirt easy then I would suggest we remove prizes. I am not comfortable with someone just grinding for a few days or couple of months and getting 1 of each available prize.

 

Prizes should be extremely difficult to obtain. If point earning is too easy then it will make it far too easy to get rare things. Prizes are that, prizes. They are not meant to be easy to obtain or overly available by everyone. They are meant to be rare and few/far inbetween. While I enjoy the idea of those who work extremely hard with actual site activity to earn one, to just sit there and play a game all day and deviate away from actual site use seems cheap.

 

This store is not only a way for people to be able to obtain things they cannot trough trading or hunting, it is also a way to promote site activity and interst. To make it more than just hatch, raise, name, repeat. To make users feel like the time invested aside from raising their dragons is also rewarded with the chance to obtain rare things.

 

To add in a mini game for people to sit there for hours just playing it over and over cheapens it. If this is added and points are made far too easy to gather, then things like Prizes should be removed or a mini game specific point cap to be implemented to limit the amount of grinding that can be done through it. Something to ensure that very rare things cannot be obtained in the span of a couple of months.

 

Also with the whole "if its an HM, prize, or cave obtainable, its included" does that include GoNs? I don't remember if this was covered or not.

[Fiona]

If mana were to be collected as the different types, one way to make it so people could have the different specific types they need would be a section of the "store" where you could trade shards. Say to summon a red dragon you need 10 fire shards and a life shard, but you only have 8 fire shards. However, you have 24 magi shards. Trade two magi shards for two fire shards and you're all set. Make all the trades one for one. That way no one mana is ever more important than any other.

[Zeditha]

I'm just going to suggest a quick thought I had in regard to the lore aspect of this.

 

When buying an egg, people seem to be split between two options: 'summoning' it with your mana, or 'buying' it by giving your mana to another wizard. I propose a new, slightly different way of obtaining these eggs. It might create just as much argument, but hey, it's an idea.

 

When you Summon a GoN, I imagine the egg simply materialising from thin air. Perhaps, when you buy an egg, the flavour text says something more along the lines of 'Your spell enchants a wild dragon, who leaves an egg near your cave before wandering back off into the wilderness.'

Basically, instead of creating an egg (summoning it from another dimension or whatever), you're simply enchanting a wild dragon to bring an egg to you.

 

This might raise issues with 'but you're controlling a dragon, that's not nice', but who knows, perhaps it's a breed that particularly likes giving gifts?

 

Oh and I reckon that different shard types would be too difficult to code in and work with and collect, so stick with 'all mana is the same'. Although, it's still cool with flavour text, IMO.

 

I'll create some random flavour text because I can.

 

When getting mana from BSAs: Your dragon drops a shard of *type?* mana. You decide to pocket it. Maybe it'll come in handy later?

When failing to abandon a hatchling: You lead the hatchling to a nearby cave and try to walk away, but after a small pause, it follows you. Wait a second - it brought you a mana shard! Perhaps this hatchling is worth keeping...

(I'm sorry, it's just such a cute idea - trying to abandon a hatchling, but it follows you, carrying a gift of mana for you in its mouth. *dies from cuteness*)

When you cause an egg/hatchling to advance: The egg you were looking at had some mana near it, so you decide to pocket it. / When you go near the hatchling, you realise it's carrying some mana. What a nice gift!

When a description is approved: You find a shard of mana with a note tied around it: Nice description of *described dragon's name*! It fits them perfectly!

Note - this could appear at the top of the scroll the next time you view it after your description is approved.

Every 100 pages you view: Oh look, there's some mana on the ground. You pocket it and carry on your way.

When naming a dragon for the first time: Your dragon seems very pleased at having a name, and brings you a shard of mana!

 

On some of these (I'm thinking BSAs and abandon-fail, mainly) You wouldn't necessarily get a shard every time - say, a 2/5 chance of getting a shard, with a larger cap.

 

I made some things, enjoy. I'm creative too... *cries at lack of drawing/spriting skill* *cries at lack of recognition for concept artists*

[olympe]

Also with the whole "if its an HM, prize, or cave obtainable, its included" does that include GoNs? I don't remember if this was covered or not.

No idea. But, as long as scroll limits still apply, I don't see why this should be a problem. (Although the conceptors might argue that the GoN was meant to be summoned only... *sigh*)

[stagazer_7]

If point earning is dirt easy then I would suggest we remove prizes. I am not comfortable with someone just grinding for a few days or couple of months and getting 1 of each available prize.

 

Prizes should be extremely difficult to obtain. If point earning is too easy then it will make it far too easy to get rare things. Prizes are that, prizes. They are not meant to be easy to obtain or overly available by everyone. They are meant to be rare and few/far inbetween. While I enjoy the idea of those who work extremely hard with actual site activity to earn one, to just sit there and play a game all day and deviate away from actual site use seems cheap.

 

This store is not only a way for people to be able to obtain things they cannot trough trading or hunting, it is also a way to promote site activity and interst. To make it more than just hatch, raise, name, repeat. To make users feel like the time invested aside from raising their dragons is also rewarded with the chance to obtain rare things.

 

To add in a mini game for people to sit there for hours just playing it over and over cheapens it. If this is added and points are made far too easy to gather, then things like Prizes should be removed or a mini game specific point cap to be implemented to limit the amount of grinding that can be done through it. Something to ensure that very rare things cannot be obtained in the span of a couple of months.

 

Also with the whole "if its an HM, prize, or cave obtainable, its included" does that include GoNs? I don't remember if this was covered or not.

Hm, I think you might have misunderstood what I meant to say, I didn't really suggest that players should be earning a whole year's worth of points in a few days by grinding as I'm very much against mindless grinding in any form (part of why I simply don't enjoy games that have this system at the core of their games as much as DC). What I had in mind is a system that promotes consistency by encouraging players to remain active by doing what they love in this game anyway.

 

The way I see it, making point gathering something small and relatively insignificant would have it's benefits. For one, if players would gain points by doing what they normally do, that would not change anything about the game we all know and love - after logging in, I'll just do what I do now, breed a few eggs for gifting, name a few of my dragons and raise a few hatchies to adulthood... bam, point cap reached - there would be no need for grinding, because being consistent would be what enables you to really gather points, not just sit for an hour or too and influence 50-100 eggs (I could easily do that for a day or so as I've collected an army of Pinks over the years, grab a few AP eggs, drop them, rinse and repeat, same with Reds).

 

And being consistent isn't exactly easy - people have to take weekly or monthly hiatuses all the time due to real life obligations (it's not a big deal, just figured I should point this out too ^^ - I often only find the time just to check none of my eggs are sick and that's my daily activity for the day). Also, scroll goals are wildly different among players, some want a specific CB Holiday, others a CB Metal/rate and I imagine pretty much everyone would like a CB Prize, diluting the pressure on a single dragon breed. With well planned prices and daily gathering caps this could be a fun and unobtrusive way to include the shop/trader onto our scrolls - being rewarded with points for being active on our scrolls would really be just a small bonus for being consistent and keep returning to the game and playing it, something we'd probably do anyway.

 

But I'd really be just as fine if only certain scroll actions rewarded points too - just as long as there is a daily (maybe even weekly - not sure about that one) cap for it.

 

If mana were to be collected as the different types, one way to make it so people could have the different specific types they need would be a section of the "store" where you could trade shards. Say to summon a red dragon you need 10 fire shards and a life shard, but you only have 8 fire shards. However, you have 24 magi shards. Trade two magi shards for two fire shards and you're all set. Make all the trades one for one. That way no one mana is ever more important than any other.

That's a good idea and the only way I see the different mana shards ideas working.

 

I still think only one type of currency is really needed though, but I wouldn't have any issues if it was a system like this one.

Edited November 28, 2015 by stagazer_7

[Fuzzbucket]

Please only one type of currency. KISS is the way to go - this is all getting far too complicated!

[Thuban]

Please only one type of currency. KISS is the way to go - this is all getting far too complicated!

Mana shards (with my newest option) would be the currency, regardless of what variety you pick up. Fiona's option of being able to swap them out works for me.

 

The only reason I had suggested using those is because they are all over the place, and useful to many people. They are something easily obtained, easily traded (between the imaginary people in game, not users). I hate the idea of "summoning" eggs, and would prefer to "trade" for them, since this games entire economy is based on people trading what they can catch/breed/find for what they want but cant breed or catch.

 

KISS is an amazing system, but within 6 pages or so of this thread opening, it became perfectly clear that using simple descriptors and concepts just wasnt going to work. I personally have a huge issue against using "magic" to make these eggs happen, yet it seems to be a popular theme. I preferred points/currency, but people took offense to it, thinking it added something completely new to the game. I had suggested stripping away currency/points altogether and just having an NPC trader who would show up and say "i need these dragons, you can have this in return" and that didnt go over well, despite being exactly how things work now.

 

At least using shards as currency makes sense. Whether the trader/shop needs specific ones, or if they all count 1:1 (through swaps or just being shards) doesnt really matter. I like the challenge of collecting different ones for different things. It makes sense to me, but I see why people would balk at the idea. Shards just seem the easier route, compared to points, currency, and "because magic" explinations.

[Cute_Dragons]

This sounds fun!

[CrystalSetsuna]

an opportunity for everyone to get at least one of hard/impossible to get dragons?

 

yes please! full support!^^ as long as there is a decent chance for us to get something, even if it takes a long time, i'm happy!

 

though i suppose that would mean the end of my trading plan of just lurking and collecting for years on end until all the older players drop out and i'm the only one remaining with the early years cb dragons

[TempestSea]

support - maybe someone older with limited time like me might be able to get something this way - I could save up over the year lol. LIKE!!!

[Thuban]

support - maybe someone older with limited time like me might be able to get something this way - I could save up over the year lol. LIKE!!!

That was the idea I was aiming for originally, yes.

[Tango]

For the CB holiday prize idea: I know some people have brought up that it's unfair for people to be able to get CB holidays, I personally think it would be fine. But if people are really against not getting holidays you weren't here for, how about just holidays you missed?

[Thuban]

For the CB holiday prize idea: I know some people have brought up that it's unfair for people to be able to get CB holidays, I personally think it would be fine. But if people are really against not getting holidays you weren't here for, how about just holidays you missed?

One of the options that came up was that you could collect the old ones, up to the limit of two cbs. But, the vote was to make them crazy expensive, on top of the limit of two, and only being able to get them during active event windows.

 

 

[Tango]

One of the options that came up was that you could collect the old ones, up to the limit of two cbs. But, the vote was to make them crazy expensive, on top of the limit of two, and only being able to get them during active event windows.

Yeah I'd want them to be super expensive. To be honest I'm ok with not having the holidays I wasn't around for, but I'm upset about the ones I missed. And yeah agree on the two CB limit. Hollies would have to be SUPER expensive.

 

 

EDIT: So I've been wondering, have we thought about how you get the mana shards or whatever they're called?

Edited December 21, 2015 by Tango

[Clya]

I would support this, but actual spent money shouldn't be incorporated into this ever. I've seen many games start out with stuff like this that then evolve into "spend 2.99 to get X number of points!"

 

I'm in between on my opinion on this right now, so I'll just watch and see how it goes....

[Ribombee]

The only support I would give to adding prizes is if every other option was also added. Past prize owners were given the option to take a HM instead (usually holly or CB alt). If those options were not available, it would completely devalue prizes in relation to those. I'm am SURE many people would have chosen to take an HM option rather than prize if they had any indication that prizes might someday be available in this manner.

 

I am not against the idea of all users being able to work hard to get all sprites. I would love to be able to do checkers easier. However, I'm against devaluing one top tier sprite if it's not applied easily across the board. 3rd gens are already pretty easily traded for in relation to what they were last year. 2Gs have dropped in value enough that it's a struggle to get a 2G holly for them, whereas it used to be a pretty reasonable trade offer. A drop in value isn't automatically a bad thing UNLESS it makes it even harder to get another difficult to attain sprite. Devaluing one without doing the same for others isn't going to work. It just shifts the impossibility factor. It would be the same as keeping prizes at their current value but suddenly making golds uncommons. Currently, with a lot of work (catching, trading up, trading hatchies for eggs until you get multiple CB metals on your scroll at one time) it's possible to trade for 2G prizes. Not easy, but possible. If golds were devalued like that, it would go back to impossible/very near impossible to get 2G prizes. Why would a prize owner want to trade for something that's not THAT incredibly difficult to get? When the prizes are producing all of one shiny a month (or less), it would take an awful lot of uncommons to be worth it, and unless the prize owner collected the sprite, who really needs that many of a single CB? Heck, CB metals ARE still very rare, and I have all I will ever need.

 

The root problem is that a very few dragons vastly outweigh all the others in value: low gen prizes, low gen hollies, 2G from spriter alt, 2G from CB alt, neglected. With enough time and patience, NDs are obtainable by anyone. They're valuable because they DO take time, patience, and careful planning. They aren't impossible to get on your own if you really want one, though. Spriter alt offspring are a special thank you to spriters for their work. No change needed there. If values are adjusted properly for ALL eggs, 2Gs will still be obtainable via trade. That leaves prizes, CB alts, and hollies. The only way adding ANY of them to the store would work is if ALL of them were added. It's really an all or nothing situation, or the idea of using a store to even the playing field a bit won't work. It will only shift the trading power from one very small group to another even smaller group (i.e. it would make the problem far worse).

[olympe]

So, you think because everyone could (probably) buy one or two CB golds in a year if they decided against all other goodies like CB old holidays, it would upset the prize trading market? Or did I mistake your post in some way?