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Thuban

Trader's Canyon

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Trader's Canyon

 

The following quote is the basic information about what this suggestion is, and how it works. This is the absolute bare bones summary. It used to have a lot more information but was stripped down in relation to this post.

 

 

 

 

 

Quote

 

 

What can be purchased with Shards?

- Any dragon that is obtainable in cave, Prize dragons and Past Holiday dragons during their specific windows.

 

 

How are shards earned?

-By collecting, breeding and raising dragons. Obtaining an egg, hatching an egg into hatchy stage, and raising a dragon to adulthood earns one point each step of the way. Using certain BSAs earn a point (Incubate, Influence, Fertility). There is a 100 point cap in place, per week. This was the basic breakdown for how the points are earned.

QChG0Zv.png

- These numbers can be changed. The main idea here is that THESE are the activities that earn the points, and that there are caps in place to keep everyone on an even playing field.

 

How are they used?

-Shards can be traded in to an NPC merchant for "Cave" biome eggs. 

 

How are prices set:

-We decided to use Golds as the most expensive dragon, and broke the other breeds down as being worth a percentage of golds. The prices are not set in stone, they are set by how long it takes to earn them, rather than specific prices.

 

What limitations exist?

-Some actions have a limit to how many times they can be applied towards the "weekly" goal. 

-There is absolutely no user to user interaction for any part of this. Nothing obtained from the store is tradable, the currency is untradable.

-The store will not open to users until they have obtained Bronze badge, however, they will earn points from day one.

-Things that can never be caught in the cave, or be obtained without breeding are NOT part of this. This includes GoNs, Cb Hybrids and alts that can only be obtained by breeding. 

 

Things that could be expanded: These are NOT part of the store, just things people expressed an interest in for future expansions.

- We have lore for various sections of the store in the event it is needed.

- Mini games are something that some users have expressed an interest in as a way to earn points.

- Also various sales and contests that revolve around playing the game (raising x number of things to earn points).

- Raffles of sorts could also happen, but arent a driving factor.

- Items that mimic BSAs (both existing, and suggested)

 

 

Quote

Pricing: We decided to go with a Gold standard, meaning that Golds are going to continue to be considered the most rare. Thank you everyone who had weighed in on that!

Tier 5 (Metals):

Gold -  (6 months)

Silver - (5 months)

Copper (all three colors) -  (4 months)

Prizes (all species, all colors) - (4 to 5 months)

 

Tier 4 (Holidays):

All Holidays - (3 months)

 

Tier 3 (Trios and Unbreedables):

All -  (2 months)

 

Tier 2 (Multiple CB Color Morph and non-Trio BSAs):

"Random" version of multi-colored -  (about two weeks' worth of points)

"Specific" version of multi-colored and all others - (6 weeks to 2 months)

BSA (not Trios) - (2 to 3 weeks)

 

Tier 1 (Everything Else Available):

All - (about a weeks' worth of points)

 

The above pricing is based on how LONG it takes to earn things. There is no specific price, because that depends on how the specific point system works out. We went time based, so that the numbers didn't matter.

 

 

As of 2/26/18 I am asking a series of questions to get a feel for how people think of this concept, how it would affect your play style and suggestions for changes.
 

Quote

Lets focus on getting a good list going on why this or a similar kind of idea is needed/wanted. Please read through the list of questions before answering them. There will be room to expand on your answers at the end. I'd like to get a feel for the types of players we have, and how they play their game. If someone out there can figure out a way to compile the information in a useful way, and wants to please feel free. 

How long have you been playing? (less than 6 months, 6-12 months, 1-3 years, 4-6 years, 6+ years)

What type of player are you? (Pick a few keywords to use, in relation to your play style. Things like casual, breeder, trader, hoarder... )

How much time do you spend playing this game a day/week?

During the time you play, roughly how much time do you devote to breeding, trading, hunting the cave, hunting the ap and/or other activities? (If there are things you do not do for whatever reason, please write something like <1 hour or never.)

How would the ability to earn CB dragons help you with your scroll goals? Please explain.

What is it about this idea that you like? Why?

Is there anything you feel should be tweaked or that you think should be added? Why?

Do you have anything else to say about this thread, that you want to share?

 

Edited by Thuban
Did some editing to the information on this suggestion to clarify specific things that keep getting brought up.

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I don't like this idea because of the point many will make: Those with time will stock pile faster, get the rare things sooner, and try and hold the trading market at their mercy. I mean to compensate we could make things like CB Hybrids and rares really expensive, but then thats more for people with less time to have to save up on, and just a lot of work.

 

Thats my personal view and why I don't really like this suggestion but I want to see what others have to say.

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I love it from the beginning to the end, including the "purly for giggles" part tongue.gif

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I don't like this idea because of the point many will make: Those with time will stock pile faster, get the rare things sooner, and try and hold the trading market at their mercy. I mean to compensate we could make things like CB Hybrids and rares really expensive, but then thats more for people with less time to have to save up on, and just a lot of work.

 

Thats my personal view and why I don't really like this suggestion but I want to see what others have to say.

Its not different than how things already are though. Those who have more time to hunt, catch more rares and such overall. Those who have more time to trade, are more successful at trading. Sure, there is a bias, however, this makes it so ANYONE can get these things, over time. Rares should be hard to get.. thats sort of the point of being rare. Having them be expensive, would slow the grinders down a bit.

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I like this way better than just "buying" with " cave money "purchased with real money. I can afford that kind of thing, but many can't . we can all play( easy) games- even if it takes a while. Who cares who got them faster,if the idea is to get one for yourself.

The trading market is dictated by the "haves" .A few more 'haves " might make it easier for some of us to trade dry.gif

Edited by dragonpuck

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I wouldn't mind this sort of thing. Especially if there's a cap to how much 'currency' you can get in a day.

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Honestly I really like this. And who would want to trade for a past cb holiday when you can get one yourself? They just happened to get it sooner. I really don't see this affecting the trade market all that much and it will definitely help out with people who missed previous holidays and such.

 

But cb prizes? I think if there going to be a new prize breed then tinsels should be removed and implemented into this after the two years of the new prize breed, and then the shimmers and so forth.

 

If there isn't a new prize breed then and tinsels and shimmers remain the only ones, then I don't think people should be able to get them through this.

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Its not different than how things already are though. Those who have more time to hunt, catch more rares and such overall. Those who have more time to trade, are more successful at trading. Sure, there is a bias, however, this makes it so ANYONE can get these things, over time. Rares should be hard to get.. thats sort of the point of being rare. Having them be expensive, would slow the grinders down a bit.

Someone mentioned a cap to how many points to purchase things one could accumulte and according to that a random assortment of eggs made available. If its on a weekly basis, I would find this more appealing. I would not like to see prizes and the such included though because considerably those would need to be extremely expensive and as such just frustrating for most to get. Its already frustrating as it is. If they are added in and the available purchases cycled around, it would have to be on a very rare once in a blue moon appearance where you could buy it at the reasonably capped price.

 

I don't know if any of this makes sense. Still a tad sick though so sorry if its jumbled.

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I like this idea. It'd give people with slow internet or reflexes a way to get rare eggs still and not be at the mercy of trading.

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This fully has my support. It's the most inclusive way for people to earn their dream dragons. The speed of that happening seems less important as long as you know there is light at the end of the tunnel.

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Never before released in cave dragons that wont be released in cave and are only available through the point system. These wouldnt necessarily be rare, but it would give the rare dragons sitting around gathering dust a way to be used (even if they end up being dropped down to uncommon rather than rare to pull it off). These could cycle out over the course of a year, once x number have been purchased overall, the following month a new one could happen.

 

Just want clarification on this part, especially the bolded.

 

By cycle out do you mean 'retired' (no longer available period), if so, then no...hell no.

 

If they do come back eventually, though, then that's fine.

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I don't like this idea because of the point many will make: Those with time will stock pile faster, get the rare things sooner, and try and hold the trading market at their mercy.

But don't we already have that now? With the prize dragons? I very rarely trade anymore because it's all about prize dragons, swaps and low gens. Maybe it's gotten better, I haven't checked in a while. I think this may level it out a bit and give even slower people or people with slow internet/computers a chance. I don't think it's such a bad idea.

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Someone mentioned a cap to how many points to purchase things one could accumulte and according to that a random assortment of eggs made available. If its on a weekly basis, I would find this more appealing. I would not like to see prizes and the such included though because considerably those would need to be extremely expensive and as such just frustrating for most to get. Its already frustrating as it is. If they are added in and the available purchases cycled around, it would have to be on a very rare once in a blue moon appearance where you could buy it at the reasonably capped price.

 

I don't know if any of this makes sense. Still a tad sick though so sorry if its jumbled.

I had mentioned a potential cap for prizes in the other thread.

 

I do think Prizes (if added into this madness) should have a cap, but.. not necessarily in the way you might think. If people want to save up for something expensive, then by all means, they should be allowed. 2 of each sprite is plenty. It allows for a male and female of each, and once you purchase that limit, they should be removed. Previous raffle winners who have prizes would still be allowed to purchase two, despite already owning one. (Yay for continuing their prizes being special despite wanting to give everyone else a chance at them?)

 

 

I cant really make any comments on how "expensive" things would be though with this system, seeing as there are no games, or specific things to spend the points on yet. I think some things could be done pretty cheaply... compared to others.

 

For example: If there is a simple game that gives 25 points, per time played (3 times a day cap), then perhaps something "common" might only run about 100 points. You could easily get one a day that way, after the first day. Harder games might have higher point values, but be allowed to be played less.

 

If the alt (black and vine) twist I have in my post is available, maybe you would pay something closer to 2 or 3 games worth of points. (uncommon). By the same token, things like cb colored stripes, and certain more common hybrids (if they are available) would also hang out in this 200-500 point range.

 

Standard rares (like "common" holidays like halloweens, the more rare end hybrids and such) would need to take a bit longer to earn up to.. I would want to start those at 1000 points, purely because then it would take some time to earn enough for multiples.

 

Then you get to the prizes... 2-3k points each. This gets them into more peoples hands. These people who are saving up to them would be limited in how many of each they could have, but also, wouldnt be turning in points for other things while saving up. If we set that number at 3k, it would take 40 days of playing the simple game three times a day, to get a prize, per prize. Yes, its a bit grueling if you are racing to get there, but with varying levels of potential games with various point rewards available, this could take less time.

 

In this same group of "Reasonable to OMG Expensive" I think there is room for other types of dragons to happen. Rejected holidays, prize concepts, things that might rely on weird mechanics that the cave cant support, and things like that could be released as "special" releases. They could have varying prices that are dependant on rarity and other factors (how many variations there are, are they all one color as cb, or do they hatch differently depending on scroll numbers, time of day and such). This would allow for some things to be released that previously couldnt be for whatever reason in cave.

 

 

Clarification Ahead:

These could cycle out over the course of a year, once x number have been purchased overall, the following month a new one could happen.
<~me

By cycle out do you mean 'retired' (no longer available period), if so, then no...hell no.

 

If they do come back eventually, though, then that's fine.

 

I'm going to stay a little sketchy on my clarification here, purely because I can only speak for myself. I have some concepts gathering dust that are only available during certain times of the year. They are breedable year round, however they are meant to only be available in specific colors at certain points in the year. Concepts like that, that rely on certain time frames or other weirdness, would show up, and then disappear for awhile (but would be back later).

 

If something was to happen in there that is only going to be available once ever, I think it should stay, in the store until the person has bought their "limit". If its something that tj decides "oh, im only going to release 500k of this, and then retire it" then it should go into a "limited edition" section, with a clear description stating "these dragons are only available for (timeframe or whatever). Be sure to get yours ASAP. As long as its labled, I personally have no problem with things being considered as limited, as long as a decent sized chunk of players can get them (say.. 40% of users get at least 1?)

Edited by Thuban

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If there were per-day per-game caps, possibly an overall cap of how many points you could stockpile, and eggs earned through this system were nontradeable, I would be all for it.

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I like this idea! Maybe some of the unreleased dragons could be added too for ratios, so that the ones dc already has can be more uncommon? Unless that's what you meant.

Anyway, great idea!

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I had mentioned a potential cap for prizes in the other thread.

 

I do think Prizes (if added into this madness) should have a cap, but.. not necessarily in the way you might think. If people want to save up for something expensive, then by all means, they should be allowed. 2 of each sprite is plenty. It allows for a male and female of each, and once you purchase that limit, they should be removed. Previous raffle winners who have prizes would still be allowed to purchase two, despite already owning one. (Yay for continuing their prizes being special despite wanting to give everyone else a chance at them?)

 

 

I cant really make any comments on how "expensive" things would be though with this system, seeing as there are no games, or specific things to spend the points on yet. I think some things could be done pretty cheaply... compared to others.

 

For example: If there is a simple game that gives 25 points, per time played (3 times a day cap), then perhaps something "common" might only run about 100 points. You could easily get one a day that way, after the first day. Harder games might have higher point values, but be allowed to be played less.

 

If the alt (black and vine) twist I have in my post is available, maybe you would pay something closer to 2 or 3 games worth of points. (uncommon). By the same token, things like cb colored stripes, and certain more common hybrids (if they are available) would also hang out in this 200-500 point range.

 

Standard rares (like "common" holidays like halloweens, the more rare end hybrids and such) would need to take a bit longer to earn up to.. I would want to start those at 1000 points, purely because then it would take some time to earn enough for multiples.

 

Then you get to the prizes... 2-3k points each. This gets them into more peoples hands. These people who are saving up to them would be limited in how many of each they could have, but also, wouldnt be turning in points for other things while saving up. If we set that number at 3k, it would take 40 days of playing the simple game three times a day, to get a prize, per prize. Yes, its a bit grueling if you are racing to get there, but with varying levels of potential games with various point rewards available, this could take less time.

 

In this same group of "Reasonable to OMG Expensive" I think there is room for other types of dragons to happen. Rejected holidays, prize concepts, things that might rely on weird mechanics that the cave cant support, and things like that could be released as "special" releases. They could have varying prices that are dependant on rarity and other factors (how many variations there are, are they all one color as cb, or do they hatch differently depending on scroll numbers, time of day and such). This would allow for some things to be released that previously couldnt be for whatever reason in cave.

 

 

Clarification Ahead:

<~me

 

 

I'm going to stay a little sketchy on my clarification here, purely because I can only speak for myself. I have some concepts gathering dust that are only available during certain times of the year. They are breedable year round, however they are meant to only be available in specific colors at certain points in the year. Concepts like that, that rely on certain time frames or other weirdness, would show up, and then disappear for awhile (but would be back later).

 

If something was to happen in there that is only going to be available once ever, I think it should stay, in the store until the person has bought their "limit". If its something that tj decides "oh, im only going to release 500k of this, and then retire it" then it should go into a "limited edition" section, with a clear description stating "these dragons are only available for (timeframe or whatever). Be sure to get yours ASAP. As long as its labled, I personally have no problem with things being considered as limited, as long as a decent sized chunk of players can get them (say.. 40% of users get at least 1?)

That seems fair enough although lol at the whole keeping them rare thing. I can see something like that working then. I'd really like to see TJ's input as it could mayby solidify this just a tad more to see if its something plausible.

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If there were per-day per-game caps, possibly an overall cap of how many points you could stockpile, and eggs earned through this system were nontradeable, I would be all for it.

I dont think that the eggs gained from this need to be non-tradable exactly. Things like Prizes (with the suggested cap of only ever being able to purchase two of each, ever) would slow people down from trading them off. Some things (like cb alt blacks, vines and hybrids) would have decent trade value, and wouldnt necessarily need to be capped. If people want armies of cb Goldfish, more power to them if they want to do trades. Me, I just want to see these things more readily available to those people who actually want them.

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I like it!

 

Just a few comments:

 

- It needs a per-day cap. That way, a grinder can't spend all day and get a Prize. Also, so that there's no benefit to cheat by scripting. And it rewards dedication over everything else.

 

- I think that CB Prizes need to be at the level of 183 day-caps times points per cap. That way, you have to show real dedication to GET one, and you are limited to 2 of each color morph (ie, 2 CB Gold tinsels, 2 CB Silver Tinsels, 2 CB Bronze Tinsels and so on). It would take you 3 years to get all 3, or 6 years to reach your Prize limits.

Or have it at 122 day-caps, so you can get one of each color in 1 year or get your two CBs of each prize in 4 years.

 

- I like the idea of a Special dragon, that was seasonal. So, every 3 months it changes, but that same dragon comes back again the following year. I think a limit like, 1 per season would work. So you can get 4 in a year, and one of each gender in 2 years. The points for something like this could be like... 50 day-caps. That way, if you play 50 days out of 91, you can get the Seasons Special

 

- I think allowing CB Golds or CB Silvers and other uncommons / commons.

But I also think they need to be un-tradeable, too, and have a fairly high point value. This is, after all, Dragon Cave, and while letting people buy that elusive CB is good.... They should go to the Biomes to get it. Also limited to 2 per year per breed. Like I said.. The biomes are for the in-cave eggs. tongue.gif

 

- CB Alts and CB Hybrids

A high point value. Call it 122 day-caps, and a limit of 2 total. 122 is 1/3rd of a year, so they will take a long time and the person will have to choose between it.... And a Prize.

 

- Past CB Holidays

Also a high point value, and available only in its season. Call it 185 day caps for the CB-limited ones, and 92 day-caps for the Halloweens. The reason so high is because otherwise, come Christmas, we'll end up with everyone having a pair of CB Hollies.... I have no objection to that! But I do think it should take a lot of dedication to get one.

 

Hmmm....

 

Yep.

 

Cheers!

C4.

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I like where you're going with this, Thuban. You seem to have covered every point I can think of, including how long it would take to save up enough for something really rare like a CB prize.

 

On the idea of spriter's alts being available, I'd rather see a recolor specially made for the game rather than giving out the special recolors that the spriters get. Personal preference, and I'd like to hear what some of the other spriters had to say on the subject. They'd need to be really expensive too, even though they're only a recolor of something people can otherwise get for themselves.

 

One question about that though, since we're only allowed 2 cb of Christmas and Valentine's holidays. Are you suggesting they'd end up with more than 2 cb of that holiday dragon, or would one of their existing cb holidays receive the recolor?

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I wouldn't mind this sort of thing. Especially if there's a cap to how much 'currency' you can get in a day.

and/or stick with the initial idea of a lifetime scroll limit for specific eggs. While someone might get said things FASTER, they would still be subject to the upper limit of availability (though perhaps non-rares would not be limited, and they would still be able to spend points on those as they saw fit).

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Cyradis: Im not a fan of having a "day cap".

 

The Games themselves would be limited in how many times they could be played a day (in a previous example, I used a simple game that earns 25 points per time played, playable 3 times a day tops).

 

Assuming theres a harder (more time consuming) game and an easy, fast game, you could simply lpay the 25 point game three times (cap) and the harder game once (lets say its worth 75 points)

 

The math I did earlier, with ONLY the 75 points available a day (and placing prizes at 3000 points) it would take 40 days to buy just one prize. With the second game being playable once a day for the same amount, it would drop it to 20 days for the "grinders" to be able to get ONE prize. A bit less than a year of dedication on their parts. Slower players might take a bit longer, but they would still be able to get them all, in way less time than you are suggesting.

 

 

I do NOT want to see anything in the store that is released in cave. The ONLY exception to that is CB alts (vine and black) because they do not have a different egg to alert you to the fact they are alt, and because as (a presumably cheaper) egg, it would be fun to have the chance of it hatching regular vs alt. As for commons and uncommons.. i would rather see breeds dedicated to being in the store, rather than released in cave. There would be some serious competition here, because it would be similar to trying to get a holiday dragon released.. but theres room for some unreleased dragons to happen in there i think.

 

 

I do think that how much things cost should be highly based on their apparent rarity (and holidays being released only during specific windows has been covered). CB hollys would cost more than say.. cb solstaces due to how old they are. Halloweens would have a decent price (but wouldnt be limited to the 2 cbs per scroll period that others are). If Hollies are more rare than CB prizes, their prices should reflect that. In the end, that would be on tj, and the spriter to figure out. Im not going to guess rarities.

 

 

The points people earn, are theirs to spend however they want. If theres a limit on how many of something people can have, then once they purchase the limit, they disappear. EVEN IF THE EGG DIES OR LEAVES THE SCROLL.

 

 

Edit for things I missed:

I like where you're going with this, Thuban. You seem to have covered every point I can think of, including how long it would take to save up enough for something really rare like a CB prize.

 

On the idea of spriter's alts being available, I'd rather see a recolor specially made for the game rather than giving out the special recolors that the spriters get. Personal preference, and I'd like to hear what some of the other spriters had to say on the subject. They'd need to be really expensive too, even though they're only a recolor of something people can otherwise get for themselves.

 

One question about that though, since we're only allowed 2 cb of Christmas and Valentine's holidays. Are you suggesting they'd end up with more than 2 cb of that holiday dragon, or would one of their existing cb holidays receive the recolor?

You would still be limited to JUST the 2 cbs, like always. If you want the holiday alt (whether its spriters or a recolor made available) then users would need to release one of their two to get it. Im not gonna suggest breaking that limit, at all. Nope.

 

 

I wouldn't mind this sort of thing. Especially if there's a cap to how much 'currency' you can get in a day.

Each game (assuming more than one) would have a set number of points that can be earned a day. Harder games that give more points, would be playable less times than games that are simple, and give less points.

 

So, depending on whats going on, you might only be able to reach a cap of 150 points a day (using previous examples) and the point of those caps IS to keep people from being able to grind and get 101 hybrids in the course of a few months.

 

 

its the best way i can think of to help the people who have rl obligations like kids, school and jobs a chance to save up and earn things, they cant necessarily trade for or collect themselves.

Edited by Thuban

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I do NOT want to see anything in the store that is released in cave. The ONLY exception to that is CB alts (vine and black) because they do not have a different egg to alert you to the fact they are alt, and because as (a presumably cheaper) egg, it would be fun to have the chance of it hatching regular vs alt. As for commons and uncommons.. i would rather see breeds dedicated to being in the store, rather than released in cave. There would be some serious competition here, because it would be similar to trying to get a holiday dragon released.. but theres room for some unreleased dragons to happen in there i think.

This should help the "completed, not yet released" backlog as well.

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