Trader's Canyon

[AnanoKimi]

Activity - raising a dragon to adulthood. Simples

 

Say 10 points for that, and 3 for hatching an egg. MAYBE one for influencing, one for incubating. None for teleport, as you could set up to do that all day to and fro with a friend, if you have (cough) a lot of magis.

 

None for breeding, none for hiding, unhiding, abandoning, freezing. Maybe ONE for naming. But not for renaming - so if they cannot be separated out, forget that.

 

Logging on is an issue - I never log out. I REALLY don't want to have to do so to get the points.

 

And preferably no prizes in-store. It seems that some of the artists object and that's enough reason for me.

Well I don't log out ever either but I think the site has a way of recognizing when a user has become active after a long period of time. We could just leave it at simple online activit like was mentioned where for every 10 minutes active you get a small reward.

 

As for naming and all that, I know you're saying no but I outlined a possible way it could be added in. Would you consider it being an option with said restrictions?

 

Also agreeing on the bold part and throwing in no holidays too since some artists have also complained about not wanting those added and thats plenty reason for me too.

[Fuzzbucket]

Naming - not really - there'd need to be a points limit anyway, so your suggestion wouldn't make a real difference.

[Obscure_Trash]

10 minutes "active" online time - how are you going to know if they're active or not? Logged in, scroll open. And I'm off doing something else for several hours. I -never- log out of my scroll. I don't close my browser either. So if I'm on the computer I seem to be online. How are you going to figure that as active? The computer doesn't know whether I'm on that tab or not. Doesn't know if I'm off playing minecraft or WoW with my browser open. I'm not opposed to counting logged in time, but you aren't going to be able to determine activity so easily.

Sites count your activity by the last time you clicked on something in the site. So I would assume that if a period of activity were to be counted it would be by sequentially subtracting the last time you clicked far enough back that you either hit ~10 (presumably with a small std dev) or you hit too low or too high. That being said, I do not think measuring time like this is effective (or useful, really) for the purposes of this suggestion. If there was going to be mana and if there was going to be a time component, it would make much more sense to set it up similar to ToT/FoE IMHO.

Edited November 20, 2015 by SockPuppet Strangler

[Primaltimediamond]

I support, i really realy reaaaaally want to get the other versions of the snowwings, I really love the tricolored one specially but I'm stuck with white tipped wings I really dislike the scroll lock version thing >>

 

and a darkling...man i want a darkling so badly :c

[Riannon]

I haven't read all of the posts on this thread, but someone said something that kind of sparked an idea in my head. What if {purely for lore value} the driving force behind the "store" was an organization tasked by a research company to study dragons? They "sell" the eggs to fund or further their research, and in the process they get to observe the adult dragons - and it could even be implied when you make a purchase that you will fill out forms and send them notes on the development of the dragon(s) you get from them to add to their research pool about how different breeds develop in different environments. Of course, no action would actually have to be taken by the player, but adding that little bit would certainly add to the story behind the existence of the "store". Just a thought.

[Obscure_Trash]

I support, i really realy reaaaaally want to get the other versions of the snowwings, I really love the tricolored one specially but I'm stuck with white tipped wings I really dislike the scroll lock version thing >>

 

and a darkling...man i want a darkling so badly :c

I don't see why a potential store would allow you to get certain snow angel wings, since they'll still be scroll coded. ^^

[Fuzzbucket]

I don't see why a potential store would allow you to get certain snow angel wings, since they'll still be scroll coded. ^^

There has been a suggestion that we could buy a specific wing colour. I think it was shot down, but it was suggested. And I've no doubt TJ could make it possible if he liked.

[626lavaheart]

this slightly reminds me of Flight rising's minigame thing... I personally didn't like it tbh because you had to grind a lot of time into it tbh and it eventually was no fun at all since the games were so purely simplistic... They had a cap on how much gold you could make each day and a lot of people just grinded away making sure to cap every day.. I personally couldn't do it...

 

honestly I don't like the idea mostly because there's not really any time sink with DC were you have to be Fully focused on doing something every single day... It's more of a grab eggs and forget about it for a few days and really not super demanding like a minigame that you feel like you need to cap every day...

[Thuban]

this slightly reminds me of Flight rising's minigame thing... I personally didn't like it tbh because you had to grind a lot of time into it tbh and it eventually was no fun at all since the games were so purely simplistic... They had a cap on how much gold you could make each day and a lot of people just grinded away making sure to cap every day.. I personally couldn't do it...

 

honestly I don't like the idea mostly because there's not really any time sink with DC were you have to be Fully focused on doing something every single day... It's more of a grab eggs and forget about it for a few days and really not super demanding like a minigame that you feel like you need to cap every day...

There are a good 10 different suggestions that happened in this thread to avoid that. However, after requesting over and over that those ideas that had been fleshed out be put into a post I could link to make discussions easier, I still dont have posts specifically for linking.

 

I'll see about doing an overhaul on the first post soon, for what I can remember of the other ideas. Mostly, people seem to support daily play, normal day to day actions being what earns their way to the dragons they want. They did not like the idea of only certain dragons being available at certain times, want everything available at all times. Some people prefer to store mana, others dont mind points. Some alternate suggestions of trading existing dragons to a "trader" for eggs could be a thing, I believe there was also mention of using the points/mana for entry into smaller "raffles" that woul take place throughout the year. There have been more than a few discussions for how to get points/mana as well.

Edited November 25, 2015 by Thuban

[olympe]

I don't think we need that many threads linked to this one - or some mod or other will only merge them anyway.

 

What I could imagine useful are the following discussion threads:

- How to earn points. (Cap included.)

- Items/Abilities available in the shop.

- Dragons available in the shop.

 

However, I think we've covered most of the first and last already. And, without any framework on how many points (= days worth playing) we'd need to get whatever is available in the shop, we can't really discuss that.

 

Other ideas we might discuss:

- Lore. Is it a shop, magical ability, a trader? And do we call the "currency" points, mana or gold?

- Limitations: Should there be any (apart from a cap to prevent grinding)?

 

 

Is that what you had in mind?

This, however, is something I'd leave up to TJ and his crew, to be quite frank.

[Thuban]

I don't think we need that many threads linked to this one - or some mod or other will only merge them anyway.

 

What I could imagine useful are the following discussion threads:

- How to earn points. (Cap included.)

- Items/Abilities available in the shop.

- Dragons available in the shop.

 

However, I think we've covered most of the first and last already. And, without any framework on how many points (= days worth playing) we'd need to get whatever is available in the shop, we can't really discuss that.

 

Other ideas we might discuss:

- Lore. Is it a shop, magical ability, a trader? And do we call the "currency" points, mana or gold?

- Limitations: Should there be any (apart from a cap to prevent grinding)?

 

 

Is that what you had in mind?

This, however, is something I'd leave up to TJ and his crew, to be quite frank.

 

 

Sort of. I wasnt saying new threads.. just a post here, that I can throw into the first post, as a place to get more information for the different options that have come up. Each alternate idea that has come up, had its own set of quirks, that you guys started blended together over time. I wanted to get the info sorted out, into a list (quite like yours actually), to try to help streamline discussion more. Your list idea would be better.

 

To be fair, I didn't really expect this post would hit this many pages

Edited November 25, 2015 by Thuban

[Tango]

I would like this kind of idea. I've noticed that dragoncave follows a kind of 'app' style, you collect dragons, you breed dragons, but what do you DO with the dragons? The app I was looking at had a pokemon style fighting arena but that's just an example. It'd be good if there were minigames, and we had something to do while waiting for eggs to hatch. I'd love there to be a reason for us to focus on our favourite dragons, some kind of stat, or ribbons for winning minigames. It'd be nice if players who missed an event can get CBs (For a large price!) and there are plenty of other small things you could win

 

- Ribbons for individual dragons

- Spriters alts may be off the table, but what about the alts such as the sweetlings? An option to have the black and pink?

- a 'random' lucky spin, you could get any egg including rares

- I really like the idea of CB holidays so I'm mentioning it again, even if it makes my CB holidays less valuable

- Discontinued sprites maybe? The option to get the frozen baby for people who already have the old sprites?

- Frozen eggs!

- Permanent versions of the temporary Christmas/Halloween sprites some dragons had

[Zeditha]

With my suggestions, I actually WANTED there to be a way to 'grind'. It isn't cheating; it's simply putting in more effort to get what you want!

For example, if you spend 10 hours browsing the Biomes to get yourself some awesome rare CB eggs, is that grinding? No, of course not! What if you spend 20 hours? 40? At what point does 'effort' and 'dedication' become 'grinding'? (I don't see anyone sitting at a computer 2 days straight, but you get the point, hopefully.)

So, some way to gain mana/points/whatever with no cap seems like a good idea to me.

 

Oh and I intended naming to be separated from renaming. Renaming should definitely not reward with mana.

 

Onto the topic currently being discussed, which is 'what should be in the store?':

*has to post, will edit more in later*

[olympe]

The problem with naming and re-naming is that you can unname. And then name again - which might be recognized by the code to be an actual "naming" instead of the renaming it actually is.

[Thuban]

In regards to gaining "points":

 

I dont consider naming to be "required" for a dragons survival. I see no reason to award points for it.

 

~ Successfully getting it to change stages (egg to hatchy, hatchy to adult) would earn points. People who are good at managing space and time, could feasibly rock this for a lot of points. We dont have to cap this exactly, the points that happen would be limited by scroll space. Perhaps only the things that make it through each stage, to adulthood or frozen status, would get points?

~ Successfully breeding: could earn some points, as its an important part of keeping population growth going. Would want this capped though. However, breeding and then raising that egg could feasibly gain more points than just simply getting an egg and raising it.

~Successfully collecting an egg (either from cave, AP or trading) could gain points, but would be capped.

~ Use of actions that do not involve killing, in general, should be able to gain points, to an extent. BSAs and such /could/ count, but with a cap. Though, I tend to think thats more the dragons doing work, than the scroll owners, which is why I didnt count it at first as a way to gain points.

~ Simply being active on the site, should gain points. Slowly. Within reason.

~some things, such as successfully preventing death by fogging something sick effectively, could be useful for point gain. Simply fogging and unfogging things on their own though, not so much.

 

In regards to points themselves:

~ If we go mana route, I would rather see mana shards be the form of currency, rather than actual magic. (This opens the door for a lot of variety in how trading in points can happen.)

~I dont care if we call it gold or experience points. Calling it mana has been the main thing I have issues with.

 

In regards to the "store" (trader, whatever):

~ I like the idea of using shards for mana, rather than mana as in "magic", if mana is to be used as currency.

 

I dont consider "freezing" to be magical, so much as something people just learn to do over time (like keeping Axolotls from turning into their adult forms..). There is nothing in the description of the action that specifically says "its magic" (well, there is, but theres nothing saying a scroll wasnt used to cast the spell ). Because of this, I like to pretend that not every dragon tender out there is some super crazy magical wizard. Perhaps all of the necromancers who have zombies, actually just talked someone else into doing it for them. With this in mind, I think its perfectly logical that someone (the shopkeeper, the trader, whatever we end up with) might have eggs they would trade for specific numbers of specific elements in mana shard form. This would add a pretty interesting currency system, that could be affected by locations, time of year and such. There is a LOT of wiggle room there to play with. Most of the mana based ideas could be introduced that way. Trade shards to a trader for scrolls that you give to the shopkeeper for eggs, for example.

 

~ I see no reason for every egg ever to be available at all times. I'm fine with different commons and uncommons being listed at different times, as long as every breed is eventually represented. I'm still not sure how best to handle rares. Personally, I would rather see rares offered after x number of trades with the trader/shopkeep have happened, or rarely without having traded (because rares shouldnt ALWAYS be available, even with points, but im willing to concede that certain types could be around always, if the people have enough points onhand). I think its important to have to "prove" to them that you can raise the critters properly (most pet shops tend to shy away from selling a newbie a pet they know to be difficult to raise, and handing some new dragon tender a rare breed is sort of silly, hence the need for more points being required to get them )

 

Most of how I think about this, tends to be rather different than what you guys have been pitching though. Thats why I felt it important to have a list of the different ideas people had, to refer to.

 

 

BIG EDIT: Offsite conversation has put me in a position where I feel I need to explain the mana shards.

 

If a tender was going to use a red dragons BSA, it would make sense that the tender is in an area where fire shards could be found. Therefore, while their dragon performs the action, they might "find" a fire shard on the ground.

 

If they were to be using EQ, then its logical that there might be earth shards in the area. This would be a case where the staff would have to figure out how best to apply different types of manas to different actions and perhaps assign "random" shards to happen in other ways. Perhaps while using "Incubate" fire shards are the most likely to be obtained, but there could be a chance of finding any other shard at that time as well, its just more likely you would find Fire.

Edited November 25, 2015 by Thuban

[cyradis4]

In regards to gaining "points":

 

I dont consider naming to be "required" for a dragons survival. I see no reason to award points for it.

 

~ Successfully getting it to change stages (egg to hatchy, hatchy to adult) would earn points. People who are good at managing space and time, could feasibly rock this for a lot of points. We dont have to cap this exactly, the points that happen would be limited by scroll space. Perhaps only the things that make it through each stage, to adulthood or frozen status, would get points?

~ Successfully breeding: could earn some points, as its an important part of keeping population growth going. Would want this capped though.

~Successfully collecting an egg (either from cave, AP or trading) could gain points, but would be capped.

~ Use of actions that do not involve killing, in general, should be able to gain points, to an extent. BSAs and such /could/ count, but with a cap.

~ Simply being active on the site, should gain points. Slowly. Within reason.

~some things, such as successfully preventing death by fogging something sick effectively, could be useful for point gain. Simply fogging and unfogging things on their own though, not so much.

 

In regards to points themselves:

~ If we go mana route, I would rather see mana shards be the form of currency, rather than actual magic.  (This opens the door for a lot of variety in how trading in points can happen.)

~I dont care if we call it gold or experience points. Calling it mana has been the main thing I have issues with.

 

In regards to the "store" (trader, whatever):

~ I like the idea of using shards for mana, rather than mana as in "magic", if mana is to be used as currency.

I agree with pretty much all Thuban said, except the "saving via fogging", and that's because unless the egg is very young, its not at much risk. I know, I've tried to kill and... its hard (to clarify: my own eggs and hatchies).

 

And I like the idea of shards, which vary in availability / earning by what they are.

 

Cheers!

C4.

Edited November 25, 2015 by cyradis4

[stagazer_7]

~ I see no reason for every egg ever to be available at all times. I'm fine with different commons and uncommons being listed at different times, as long as every breed is eventually represented. I'm still not sure how best to handle rares. Personally, I would rather see rares offered after x number of trades with the trader/shopkeep have happened, or rarely without having traded (because rares shouldnt ALWAYS be available, even with points, but im willing to concede that certain types could be around always, if the people have enough points onhand). I think its important to have to "prove" to them that you can raise the critters properly (most pet shops tend to shy away from selling a newbie a pet they know to be difficult to raise, and handing some new dragon tender a rare breed is sort of silly, hence the need for more points being required to get them )

As long as it's not a 'first come, first served' luck based system, I'm perfectly fine with it.

 

I wouldn't mind working towards earning the trader's trust and with it unlocking my way towards gaining rares.

Edited November 25, 2015 by stagazer_7

[AnanoKimi]

- Ribbons for individual dragons

I don't get this one... please elaborate.

 

- Spriters alts may be off the table, but what about the alts such as the sweetlings? An option to have the black and pink?

I think at some point somewhere, it was somehow suggested that alts like the alt sweetling be avialable to everyone and while those of us that obtained them disagreed because they were specifically an apology to those whose scrolls messed up, I think the artist themselves/TJ possibly mentioned how it was not meant to be for everyone. Someone will have to help me confirm this.

 

-  a 'random' lucky spin, you could get any egg including rares

In this thread it was suggested either random drawing of all users, or a raffle like thing. Most users that are for this idea are deathly against randomized giveaways of things.

 

- I really like the idea of CB holidays so I'm mentioning it again, even if it makes my CB holidays less valuable

I feel kind of annoyed this has to be repeated so often but:

Holiday spriters have expressed their discomfort in having any of their holidays added to an idea like this. Meaning that unless all spriters agree to have all holidays included for purchase we cannot simply include some and not others. Thus adding in CB holidays is not possible.

 

- Discontinued sprites maybe? The option to get the frozen baby for people who already have the old sprites?

No. The sprites are discontinued for a reason and it is going against the spriter's wish to have that breed discontinued/removed. This shop is a way to obtain things currently available but in a more attainable manner. (if you wanna argue prizes, they are very much available even if you have to get one via lucky draw during the raffle.)

 

- Frozen eggs!

I like this idea and will expand on it further below this post.

 

- Permanent versions of the temporary Christmas/Halloween sprites some dragons had

I can't agree to this. While those sprite changes were cute, they were not in it of themselves dragons, meaning either separate dragons would have to be made to accommodate this or the ability to change the sprite of current dragons. I don't know how available the second part would be or how willing TJ would be of actually implementing it.

 

In regards to gaining "points":

 

I dont consider naming to be "required" for a dragons survival. I see no reason to award points for it.

 

~ Successfully getting it to change stages (egg to hatchy, hatchy to adult) would earn points. People who are good at managing space and time, could feasibly rock this for a lot of points. We dont have to cap this exactly, the points that happen would be limited by scroll space. Perhaps only the things that make it through each stage, to adulthood or frozen status, would get points?

~ Successfully breeding: could earn some points, as its an important part of keeping population growth going. Would want this capped though. However, breeding and then raising that egg could feasibly gain more points than just simply getting an egg and raising it.

~Successfully collecting an egg (either from cave, AP or trading) could gain points, but would be capped.

~ Use of actions that do not involve killing, in general, should be able to gain points, to an extent. BSAs and such /could/ count, but with a cap. Though, I tend to think thats more the dragons doing work, than the scroll owners, which is why I didnt count it at first as a way to gain points.

~ Simply being active on the site, should gain points. Slowly. Within reason.

~some things, such as successfully preventing death by fogging something sick effectively, could be useful for point gain. Simply fogging and unfogging things on their own though, not so much.

 

In regards to points themselves:

~ If we go mana route, I would rather see mana shards be the form of currency, rather than actual magic.  (This opens the door for a lot of variety in how trading in points can happen.)

~I dont care if we call it gold or experience points. Calling it mana has been the main thing I have issues with.

 

In regards to the "store" (trader, whatever):

~ I like the idea of using shards for mana, rather than mana as in "magic", if mana is to be used as currency.

 

I dont consider "freezing" to be magical, so much as something people just learn to do over time (like keeping Axolotls from turning into their adult forms..). There is nothing in the description of the action that specifically says "its magic" (well, there is, but theres nothing saying a scroll wasnt used to cast the spell ). Because of this, I like to pretend that not every dragon tender out there is some super crazy magical wizard. Perhaps all of the necromancers who have zombies, actually just talked someone else into doing it for them. With this in mind, I think its perfectly logical that someone (the shopkeeper, the trader, whatever we end up with) might have eggs they would trade for specific numbers of specific elements in mana shard form. This would add a pretty interesting currency system, that could be affected by locations, time of year and such. There is a LOT of wiggle room there to play with. Most of the mana based ideas could be introduced that way. Trade shards to a trader for scrolls that you give to the shopkeeper for eggs, for example.

 

~ I see no reason for every egg ever to be available at all times. I'm fine with different commons and uncommons being listed at different times, as long as every breed is eventually represented. I'm still not sure how best to handle rares. Personally, I would rather see rares offered after x number of trades with the trader/shopkeep have happened, or rarely without having traded (because rares shouldnt ALWAYS be available, even with points, but im willing to concede that certain types could be around always, if the people have enough points onhand). I think its important to have to "prove" to them that you can raise the critters properly (most pet shops tend to shy away from selling a newbie a pet they know to be difficult to raise, and handing some new dragon tender a rare breed is sort of silly, hence the need for more points being required to get them )

 

Most of how I think about this, tends to be rather different than what you guys have been pitching though. Thats why I felt it important to have a list of the different ideas people had, to refer to.

 

 

BIG EDIT: Offsite conversation has put me in a position where I feel I need to explain the mana shards.

 

If a tender was going to use a red dragons BSA, it would make sense that the tender is in an area where fire shards could be found. Therefore, while their dragon performs the action, they might "find" a fire shard on the ground.

 

If they were to be using EQ, then its logical that there might be earth shards in the area. This would be a case where the staff would have to figure out how best to apply different types of manas to different actions and perhaps assign "random"  shards to happen in other ways. Perhaps while using "Incubate" fire shards are the most likely to be obtained, but there could be a chance of finding any other shard at that time as well, its just more likely you would find Fire.

I agree with most of this except I don't understand the need to make it mana shard and for that matter and actual 'store' I can be a store without it literally being a straight up 'store'.

 

The reason I kept suggesting summoning and such is because it simplifies the whole "buying an egg" thing, brings it closer to the magical lore that is DC, and it kind of distracts away from putting an actual price on an egg and creating a specified number value market for eggs. In my suggestion, you arent paying for an egg, you're supposedly paying for a chance to use a certain spell that will summona dragon that might give you an egg (the might is for show, you would obviously always get an egg). This means that dragons aren't specifically value for how much of x you had to pay for it. You are technically not paying for the egg itself so yeah.

 

Though the adition of shard would be fine because as someone mentioned frozen eggs, having physical shards to trade with opens up things like buying frozen eggs, buying little knicnacks like the halloween potions, etc, etc. I don't think it should be too varied with fire shards, life shard, death shards, wind shards, etc, etc, etc, and simply keep it straight and simple as mana. Less coding, less fuss, simpler mechanics for all ages, and an easier time actually enjoying this feature. The more you try to specify and differentiate, the less fun it is.

 

There are a good 10 different suggestions that happened in this thread to avoid that. However, after requesting over and over that those ideas that had been fleshed out be put into a post I could link to make discussions easier, I still dont have posts specifically for linking.

 

I'll see about doing an overhaul on the first post soon, for what I can remember of the other ideas. Mostly, people seem to support daily play, normal day to day actions being what earns their way to the dragons they want. They did not like the idea of only certain dragons being available at certain times, want everything available at all times. Some people prefer to store mana, others dont mind points. Some alternate suggestions of trading existing dragons to a "trader" for eggs could be a thing, I believe there was also mention of using the points/mana for entry into smaller "raffles" that woul take place throughout the year. There have been more than a few discussions for how to get points/mana as well.

Last but not least, let me once again flesh out my suggestion to this here.

 

The way my suggestion would work is as follows:

 

Mana will be the currency, plain, simple, mana. Nothing too crazy or specific, just mana.

Mana would be collected through actual use of DC and earned in specific amounts dependingon the action to ensure the action cannot be overly abused to earn too many points too fast.

 

The mana earned would be used in a special underground 'library' filled with special summoning spells. The caretaker of the library will explain that these spells are hidden away because they can summon dragons from almost any species and have them possibly grant you an egg (again, saying possibly is for flavor, summoning a dragon will always grant you an egg). In order to use these spells you must gather as many manashards as possible.

 

The mana shards can be different types when initially collected but [similar to the christmas event] once accumulated, the types will have no influence in what you can summon. It will all be collected into a general pile of 'mana'. When earning shards the flavor text indicating mana has beenearned could randomly say "x shards of [insert mana type here] were found/produced. You pocket them and continue on with your day." The mana type inserted could change every time new mana is earned.

 

This library will have two areas to visit, the spells and the kepper.

 

The Spells: If you go here you will be greeted by an archive of spells that will be organized alphabetically by breed. Picking one will lead you to a page where you will be given a brief overview of the spell and its cost. It will say something along the lines of "You open the scroll and see a detailed painting of [insert dragon breed here] followed by a spell for you to chant. This seems like a very powerful spell and looks like it will require a lot of energy.

 

[if you have enough Mana] Luckily you have been gathering some mana to help you through this.

[if you have no mana] You don't feel prepared enough to try this. You should probably go gather some more mana to help you.

 

Mana lore wise with this suggestion mana shards will be treated as enhancers (like in the christmas adventure where mana shards were collected in order to enhance the magic of everyone including the holiday dragons) that will be expended and will disappear once a spell has been completed. This keeps mana use and collection simple while still fun.

 

The Keeper: Since mana will be collected in shards, the keeper will more than happily take some shards off your hands should you feel overburdened in exchange for some odd trinkets and finds. Within his selection will be things like the halloween potions (if allowed), Infertile Eggs (frozen eggs), things for past holiday games (maybe such as maybe buying the availability to play it), and this like that. This will give players access to other knick knacks they have may want/need.

 

How mana will be earned was already pretty clearly outlined by Thuban

 

~ Successfully getting it to change stages (egg to hatchy, hatchy to adult) would earn points. People who are good at managing space and time, could feasibly rock this for a lot of points. We dont have to cap this exactly, the points that happen would be limited by scroll space. Perhaps only the things that make it through each stage, to adulthood or frozen status, would get points?

~ Successfully breeding: could earn some points, as its an important part of keeping population growth going. Would want this capped though. However, breeding and then raising that egg could feasibly gain more points than just simply getting an egg and raising it.

~Successfully collecting an egg (either from cave, AP or trading) could gain points, but would be capped.

~ Use of actions that do not involve killing, in general, should be able to gain points, to an extent. BSAs and such /could/ count, but with a cap. Though, I tend to think thats more the dragons doing work, than the scroll owners, which is why I didnt count it at first as a way to gain points.

~ Simply being active on the site, should gain points. Slowly. Within reason.

 

In terms of egg availability, we can make all dragons available at once or have different breeds/species available every week. Of course any eggs obtained should be untradable, unabandonable, and a cap to limit how many eggs can be obtained either from that specific breed or within the week in general.

 

I think thats pretty much it for my suggestion to how I feel this could work. feel free to add it to the OP, discard it, its all yours.

Edited November 25, 2015 by AnanoKimi

[Thuban]

The mana earned would be used in a special underground 'library' filled with special summoning spells. The caretaker of the library will explain that these spells are hidden away because they can summon dragons from almost any species and have them possibly grant you an egg (again, saying possibly is for flavor, summoning a dragon will always grant you an egg). In order to use these spells you must gather as many manashards as possible.

 

 

I have a huge issue with the idea of summoning eggs. GoNs are special in the sense that they require the strong magic of three types of dragon to summon them, but i can not see there being a wizard strong enough to summon eggs (or write spells to do so). I can however see wizards colecting various shards to power their magic with, in exchange for them giving you eggs. In my mind, by using various shards to pay, rather than a specific "price" there is no actually assigning "value" to anything.

 

A red dragon could cost 4 fire shards.. it could cost ten fire shards. They could cost 3 fire and a wind shard, or 2 water and a light. It wouldnt matter really, because all of the shards would be available, you just might not have that exact shard at that time. This also makes it a bit more fluid in the sense that they could simply ask for any combination of shard, as long as it adds up to 50 for something. Turning shards into a barter system makes far more sense to me, than there being wizards powerful enough to break the standards for things that have been specifically avoided in the game so far (spontanious egg creation, and explaining things off as "because magic").

 

Im not saying its a bad idea, just that I personally am not a fan, for those reasons.

[AnanoKimi]

Well that works too, but over complicating it with "You need x specific shard to get this" adds frustration because if earned shard for example are randomized by action, then you have no specific way of actually earning the right amount needed. The only way to specifically earn specific shard would be through biome catching or if catching specific breeds awards you specific shards. Both of those sound trouble some. If there is no specific way of earning specific shards, then there will be a level of frustration kind of like when the ingredients for the potions where being dropped where people needed a specific ingredient but got one completely different from that area.

 

Generalizing it only to Mana ensures that people can earn their shards peacefully and still enjoy the game instead of getting frustrated over why only x mana shard is being earned when they need y mana shard.

[Thuban]

Well that works too, but over complicating it with "You need x specific shard to get this" adds frustration because if earned shard for example are randomized by action, then you have no specific way of actually earning the right amount needed. The only way to specifically earn specific shard would be through biome catching or if catching specific breeds awards you specific shards. Both of those sound trouble some. If there is no specific way of earning specific shards, then there will be a level of frustration kind of like when the ingredients for the potions where being dropped where people needed a specific ingredient but got one completely different from that area.

 

Generalizing it only to Mana ensures that people can earn their shards peacefully and still enjoy the game instead of getting frustrated over why only x mana shard is being earned when they need y mana shard.

The system im thinking of needs a bit more fleshing out, but I know it can work. The goal was to avoid "because magic", and using it as a straight up store (since people take issue with that). I didnt want to add specific currency, but since mana can be found everywhere, its easy to believe that any action could provide any type of shard. It was suggested to me that some actions, should have a higher chance of certain types of shards being likely to happen, but still leave room for random ones as well. Since it is a world that would involve bartering systems of some kind (because every society has a system for trade) it made sense to allow for some variety. A water based wizard might not have much need for electrical shards, for example, even if they are offering electric types

 

Im trying to work out a way to show how it could be possible to get specific shards, but first, I need to reacquaint myself with various dragons and their alignments. It really could be as simple as "raise a breed of this type from egg to hatchy to get that specific shard. Raise a breed from hatchy to adult, get another shard. Freeze a hatchy of that alignment to get a shard. Use a bsa, get a shard of that type (either dragon alignment related, or bsa alignment, perhaps a little of both, depending on how staff wanted to assign it). By leaving the costs of eggs to RNG, there is no danger of trade rates inflating anymore than they already have. It would simply become a matter of "it costs this, but im sure I can hunt it or trade someone else for it cheaper" for most breeds.

[olympe]

Holiday spriters have expressed their discomfort in having any of their holidays added to an idea like this. Meaning that unless all spriters agree to have all holidays included for purchase we cannot simply include some and not others. Thus adding in CB holidays is not possible.

Well, some have. However, that does not have to mean we cannot have any holiday dragon in there. Let's just say what we'd like and let TJ decide what to do with it.

 

The problem with older CB holiday dragons, just as with hollies before HM prizes, is that they become rarer every single year, which reduces the breeding stock for everyone - at least if you're into nice, clean lineages. So, eventually TJ will have to re-introduce old holidays, or there will be a lot of drama around. (Especially between Xmas and VDay. As usual.) And that's one kind of drama that seems very easy to avoid. Making old holiday dragons available in the "shop" would be one possibility. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

Discontinued sprites maybe? The option to get the frozen baby for people who already have the old sprites?

No. The sprites are discontinued for a reason and it is going against the spriter's wish to have that breed discontinued/removed.

This is not exactly true. Lythiaren, the creator of the frills, has agreed to let them come back eventually. She also allowed for frills to be chosen as HM prizes in the past. And Dovealove, who made the bright pink sprite, stated quite clearly that she didn't have anything to do with them being pulled and that she didn't even know the reason why that happened. (And that she doesn't want to be associated with DC any more...)

 

Though the adition of shard would be fine because as someone mentioned frozen eggs, having physical shards to trade with opens up things like buying frozen eggs, buying little knicnacks like the halloween potions, etc, etc. I don't think it should be too varied with fire shards, life shard, death shards, wind shards, etc, etc, etc, and simply keep it straight and simple as mana. Less coding, less fuss, simpler mechanics for all ages, and an easier time actually enjoying this feature. The more you try to specify and differentiate, the less fun it is.

Agreed. It wouldn't hurt that you had gained/found one shard of fire mana while letting one of your red dragons incubate an egg, but the total should be just "mana" or "mana shards". Even though such a differentiation would make sense RP-wise, it would be hell to have all the "correct" types available in eht eneeded quantities when you need them.

 

Regarding gaining mana, I think most of us agree on the following:

• hatching an egg (This might cause strange issues during times of an AP full of hatchable eggs, though. Grab, hatch, abandon, repeat. So, maybe with a cap?
• raising a hatchling to adulthood
• using a BSA (apart from splash and teleport, I dare say. For both BSAs, the cooldown is very short, which makes them easy to abuse.)
• viewing 100 pages of DC (including refreshing) => activity
• Mabe a mini game or two or three?

I'd like to suggest some other methods, though:

• Freezing. Maybe a little less than raising a hatchling, but still.
• Completely unlocking one entry in the encyclopedia. It takes patience to do that, or effort.
• Successfully reviving a dragon, including zombification.
• Succesfully turning an egg or hatchling into an ND. That takes a lot of time, skill and luck.
• Naming a dragon that hasn't had a name ever before. To prevent abuse by unnaming/renaming.
• Some bonus points for raising a self-bred egg. Maybe.
• Causing any kind of egg to advance to the next stage in the cracking sequence, causing it to hatch or cause a hatchling to gender/grow up. To promote viewing, obviously.
• Unsuccessfully abandoning a hatchling. Sometimes, those darn babies insist on staying with you.

Things I don't want to gain people mana:

• Picking up an egg. Especially with AP eggs, it's very easy to get to a lot of points quickly, which leads to grinding. I'd much rather give more points for hatching/raising dragons than for catching them.
• Breeding. I really don't want everybody to breed their whole scroll to gain mana. Just imagine what that would do to the AP. *shudders* Plus, it could lead to grinding, and would give older players one heck of an advantage of several thousand breedings a week.
• Describing. I know that describing takes effort. But it's not necessary to the game at all. Plus, with the current system, every description written causes work for our already over-worked mods. (Plus, I could see people start describing their dragons with a couple of random letters just to use the action to, well, collect mana.)
• Killing, releasing or abandoning a dragon.
• Using Splash or Teleport. Too easy to abuse. Although I could see a limited amount of splashes or teleport be allowed to count. (Maybe 3 teleports/splashes per day?)
• Fogging and unfogging. Both may be a necessary evil in case of sickness, but shouldn't reap a reward IMHO.

Edited November 25, 2015 by olympe

[NotBambi]

Regarding gaining mana, I think most of us agree on the following:

hatching an egg (This might cause strange issues during times of an AP full of hatchable eggs, though. Grab, hatch, abandon, repeat. So, maybe with a cap?

raising a hatchling to adulthood

using a BSA (apart from splash and teleport, I dare say. For both BSAs, the cooldown is very short, which makes them easy to abuse.)

viewing 100 pages of DC (including refreshing) => activity

Mabe a mini game or two or three?

I'd like to suggest some other methods, though:

Freezing. Maybe a little less than raising a hatchling, but still.

Completely unlocking one entry in the encyclopedia. It takes patience to do that, or effort.

Successfully reviving a dragon, including zombification.

Succesfully turning an egg or hatchling into an ND. That takes a lot of time, skill and luck.

Naming a dragon that hasn't had a name ever before. To prevent abuse by unnaming/renaming.

Some bonus points for raising a self-bred egg. Maybe.

Causing any kind of egg to advance to the next stage in the cracking sequence, causing it to hatch or cause a hatchling to gender/grow up. To promote viewing, obviously.

Unsuccessfully abandoning a hatchling. Sometimes, those darn babies insist on staying with you.

Things I don't want to gain people mana:

Picking up an egg. Especially with AP eggs, it's very easy to get to a lot of points quickly, which leads to grinding. I'd much rather give more points for hatching/raising dragons than for catching them.

Breeding. I really don't want everybody to breed their whole scroll to gain mana. Just imagine what that would do to the AP. *shudders* Plus, it could lead to grinding, and would give older players one heck of an advantage of several thousand breedings a week.

Describing. I know that describing takes effort. But it's not necessary to the game at all. Plus, with the current system, every description written causes work for our already over-worked mods. (Plus, I could see people start describing their dragons with a couple of random letters just to use the action to, well, collect mana.)

Killing, releasing or abandoning a dragon.

Using Splash or Teleport. Too easy to abuse. Although I could see a limited amount of splashes or teleport be allowed to count. (Maybe 3 teleports/splashes per day?)

Fogging and unfogging. Both may be a necessary evil in case of sickness, but shouldn't reap a reward IMHO.

I agree with almost everything you said. Just a few comments...

hatching an egg Grab, hatch, abandon, repeat still benefit the community, I wouldn't cap it.

using a BSA I would not include Bite and Earthquake considering that those could have killing as consequence.

Successfully reviving a dragon, including zombification. Tending to disagree, involves killing.

 

[Moonlight_Eevee]

I do have a question. Would CB Frills and older Pink dragons be allowed? I know the newer people are crazy for them and I am unsure if the issue has been brought up.

[cyradis4]

I do have a question. Would CB Frills and older Pink dragons be allowed? I know the newer people are crazy for them and I am unsure if the issue has been brought up.

Repeatedly.

 

Frills, I'd think yes, because there's a strong chance they will be re-released as of Lyth's last communications.

 

Bright Pinks probably not, for the same reasons they aren't available in the Winter Raffles but Frills are.

 

Cheers!

C4.