Trader's Canyon

[Lastalda]

Basically, I support a daily cap, that can be reached by daily scroll actions, such as catching AP/Cave eggs, raising them to adulthood, BSA actions and so on... and also by playing minigames - with no limits on how many points you get by what. The daily cap should be low and reached easily - around 10 points per day would be enough to avoid the need to grind and also to not change DC experience into a chore - DC's simplicity is what makes it special, there are plenty of pet games that require daily grinding just to make ends meet (yes, I'm looking at you FR).

I agree and very much support this.

 

I also support real money buying ingame currency, as long as you can't buy more than you can earn by playing.

But I also support this whole idea if it comes without real money.

[stagazer_7]

With low daily (max weeky) caps and easy point gathering system there would be no need for paying with RL money (I mean, you could, but if it takes you a couple of minutes to reach daily cap, what's the point?), nor would anyone be disadvantaged. Everyone who's active visits the game at least a few days per week and does something on it - that something would give you points... it's as simple as that.

 

No grinding, no need for paying with money, just play the game, be active and eventually you'll earn enough points to get something from the store. It can be as simple as that.

Edited January 5, 2016 by stagazer_7

[Fuzzbucket]

With low daily (max weeky) caps and easy point gathering system there would be no need for paying with RL money (I mean, you could, but if it takes you a couple of minutes to reach daily cap, what's the point?), nor would anyone be disadvantaged. Everyone who's active visits the game at least a few days per week and does something on it - that something would give you points... it's as simple as that.

 

No grinding, no need for paying with money, just play the game, be active and eventually you'll earn enough points to get something from the store. It can be as simple as that.

That's powerfully my preference too

[laertid]

(and ACTUALLY I know some people who cannot have paypal because of where they live not allowing it - Ukraine was one I particularly recall, when I was trying to buy a book from someone I know there... I had to buy her an amazon token. I doubt if this store would accept those )

Off-topic, but Ukraine has paypal system, in fact. We just can't withdraw our funds from there (well, technically can, through some problems and some dealers). But we can use it to pay for something, so I don't think that's really a problem.

 

I agree with people who say that Flight Rising is not a good example (when speaking about minigames). They have some really pretty games all right, but I don't remember even one day I actually maxed the money cap (even if I played a lot). Also the flash games tend to crash, or freeze, or something else. I imagine something like collecting mana crystals (eggs, halloween eggs etc) on-site which can be used as "minigame" for earning currency. No flash, quick and simple, with limit like 20 or 30 eggs (crystals, dragon hamburgers) a day, or like 150 a week.

[Fuzzbucket]

Off-topic, but Ukraine has paypal system, in fact. We just can't withdraw our funds from there (well, technically can, through some problems and some dealers). But we can use it to pay for something, so I don't think that's really a problem.

Fair enough - that was two years ago. But there ARE some countries where paypal is totally off limits.

 

AFAIK this is still accurate - countries where it is totally not supported:

 

Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Cameroon, Central African Republic, Cote D'Ivoire (Ivory Coast), Democratic People's Republic of Korea (North Korea), Equatorial Guinea, Gabon, Ghana, Haiti, Iran, Iraq, Lebanon, Liberia, Libya, Monaco, Moldova, Montenegro, Myanmar, Pakistan, Paraguay, Saint Lucia, South Sudan, Sudan, Syria, Timor-Leste, Uzbekistan and Zimbabwe.

[Thuban]

Ok, the following post is going to rely a lot on offhand suggestions and comments that have happened. Just know that nothing I have to say on anything is going to be forced into the suggestion, that i am merely sharing my own thoughts.

Regarding "mini games": The original idea was to have a few mini games to play, to earn points. Users seemed to prefer the idea of daily play being how to get them, since mini games are linked more to events than anything else (and arent part of the base game). When we switched to "daily play" being the option, people were overly worried about caps and stuff. Heres the thing: I personally dont care how many points can be earned. The things obtained cant be traded, and offspring bred from these things we earned can only trade for as much as people are willing to pay. Dont want to pay 2-3 cb metals for new lines that are happening? Then dont. Another trader will always come along, willing to breed things far cheaper. Yes, I do see why there should ideally be a cap, however, if people WANT to grind, its their time, their efforts, their scroll.

 

Paid options: Again, I can be a huge fan of paid options, but get why most people aren't. I would say that any pay option that goes into place should be reasonable (it shouldn't have to cost $50 to get the thing you want, like on a certain other site many of you play...). Im a fan of limited breeds that can be bought with money (especially if the artists are being paid for those specific dragons), but understand why others wouldnt be. I have a strict limit of paying no more than $20 a month into one of the 5 games I play that have paid options (which means i divide money up for multiple sites, or just spend it all on one). Most months, I dont even spend anything, because real life trumps my wallet.

 

Now, to be fair, if paid options were to be a thing, I would rather see it be something like the BSA potions I had suggested awhile back, rather than specific dragons. Paid breeds are a slippery slope (though i would strongly lean towards any PAID breeds being tradable, because i am the type that would buy them as gifts for people...if I can afford to at the time). I would also strongly recommend that those same paid dragons, also be available with the in game currency, at a relatively easy to obtain price range (uncommon would seem fair) that breaks out "cheaper" in the long run than actually paying for them would. The people who always race to be first to get something would get them first if they can, but the rest of us would be able to get them too eventually.

 

As a side note: I would like to see the ad free subscription give points in the "day to day play" point pool. It is something that directly benefits the site, and while there are free methods of avoiding ads, it does seem like doing something that benefits the site directly, should earn an extra point per action that actually earns points for the day, to a cap of 28 days (so if you can only earn 30 points a day by doing ten actions, you would instead earn 40, at one extra point per action). In one month, at $5 thats an extra 280 points.

Edited January 5, 2016 by Thuban

[Fiona]

PF: how could I forget Naming? Yes, totally that one would be good for a point. I liked using 10 actions for earning points because 10 is nice and even.

 

Next point: I dislike bringing "How other games do it." into the discussion because DC is not other games. For one, we predate a lot of them. For two, we're not aiming to be like them but to have our own ideas. I realize there's some value is pointing out "This doesn't work over there so let's not do it that way." but I think we're leaning away from multiple ways to earn a trickle of points anyway, or options that require a lot of grinding.

 

For the interval for the points cap to renew I was actually thinking in terms of a week. A week always has the same number of days, whereas a month is variable. A day would push people who really don't have time to log in every day where a week is more flexible.

 

As for the argument about people who can neither pay nor have a lot of time, you realize that there's nothing unfair about giving options, paid or playing, that still come up as they not reaching the point cap? If one has neither time nor money to invest in something one should never complain because one doesn't reap the full available benefits. It becomes simply a matter of their priorities lying elsewhere. Nothing wrong with that.

 

For people in countries that don't have paypal or other options through which to pay, we can't be held responsible for that. We can only choose options that work across the board as much as we have such options.

Edited January 5, 2016 by Fiona BlueFire

[Red2111]

this still has my full and 100% support

 

 

re-paid options. i'm not against the option, but i also wont use it. i dont put money into "free games". we spend enough on xbox and play station games so even if we had the option to buy a CB prize dragon for $5.00's on here (as tempted as i would be) i wouldn't do it (though it would make things on my hubby much easier present wise, but i digress he already bribes gifts me with holiday babies )

 

that said, i'm not against the option of paid perks if TJ wants to go that route. i am against the idea of a Pay Wall and i think the problem here is that when most people here "pay money for in game perks" they automatically think "Pay Wall". theres a huge difference between Pay Walls and Paid Perks. Pay Walls in this game would be "you can only get this super valuable dragon by paying $5.00 for it"; Paid Perks would be spend $1.00 for 30 points (which you would probably earn in a day of two by just playing normally).

 

it doesn't create any sort of real advantage, it just caters more to the people who need immediate gratification rather than have the patience and tolerance to do the daily grind for points, and allows for more options for different people who play differently without feeling like you NEED to log in every day.

 

 

 

re-in game mini game. there was a cap with the mana game 2 years ago to prevent people grinding for mana for the raffle. i dont see why this is even a discussion on since its previously been implemented with the mini game that sparked this idea. are peoples memories really that short??

 

 

 

edit - how would this affect copper breeding?? as well as CB Mistletoes & CB Solstices??

 

 

ie: if i got a Female Blusang from the store and bred it to a CB Male Brown Copper, would i be able to get a 2G Brown Copper??

 

(i hope this is the case, cause OMG the breeding projects )

 

 

woudl you be able to buy a CB Blue Wing Solstice? and would CB Mistletoes be influencable??

Edited January 5, 2016 by Red2111

[Fuzzbucket]

PF: how could I forget Naming? Yes, totally that one would be good for a point. I liked using 10 actions for earning points because 10 is nice and even.

 

Next point: I dislike bringing "How other games do it." into the discussion because DC is not other games. For one, we predate a lot of them. For two, we're not aiming to be like them but to have our own ideas. I realize there's some value is pointing out "This doesn't work over there so let's not do it that way." but I think we're leaning away from multiple ways to earn a trickle of points anyway, or options that require a lot of grinding.

 

For the interval for the points cap to renew I was actually thinking in terms of a week. A week always has the same number of days, whereas a month is variable. A day would push people who really don't have time to log in every day where a week is more flexible.

 

As for the argument about people who can neither pay nor have a lot of time, you realize that there's nothing unfair about giving options, paid or playing, that still come up as they not reaching the point cap? If one has neither time nor money to invest in something one should never complain because one doesn't reap the full available benefits. It becomes simply a matter of their priorities lying elsewhere. Nothing wrong with that.

 

For people in countries that don't have paypal or other options through which to pay, we can't be held responsible for that. We can only choose options that work across the board as much as we have such options.

Not having money is not something one can CHOOSE to have a priority about, and not having time to be here is also not always a matter of choice - though that I realise we shall have to live with for those who really don't have time for whatever reason.

 

If one has neither time nor money to invest in something one should never complain because one doesn't reap the full available benefits. It becomes simply a matter of their priorities lying elsewhere. Nothing wrong with that.

 

I don't think being appallingly low paid, or struggling to survive on a student loan is a matter of "priorities lying elsewhere" - and for - for instance - a child (we have a lot of young players) who is only allowed to play for an hour a day, that's not their choice either.

 

I just want the most level POSSIBLE playing field. And I realise that the time thing is something that will have to be perceived as a choice, even though for some of us it isn't, But not the money one. $20 a month (a sum Thu just suggested as a max) is half of some people's whole family food budget for a week. Truly. One reason a lot of people are here is the fact that it IS free. I'd like all those people to be able to carry on playing on the same basis as those of us who can (as one family just did on TV) manage to save £5000 a year on their food bill by following a few simple changes. Lord knows how much they are still spending, as that SAVED amount is CONSIDERABLY more than I have EVER spent on food in a year. Our financial situations here are hugely varied; our playing field should NOT reflect that, I think.

Edited January 5, 2016 by fuzzbucket

[Red2111]

@ Fuzz - as a person who is in the lower teer, income wise (both the hubby and i are part time workers and full time students), i dont have the disposable income to put towards paid perks in free games ... but i also dont feel disadvantaged by paid perks in games.

 

Gems of War is a perfect example. my deck rocks, and i dont log in daily, but i'm able to earn plenty of keys, XP, and all 3 types of the in game currency to play the game above my satisfaction where it keeps me coming back.

 

 

there are paid perks, getting loads of in game currency for like $50, or certain cards and armor that is sick. i dont feel disadvantaged in that game and i dont begrudge people who have the disposable income to put towards a game. in fact, theres a certain perverse since of satisfaction i get from beating a deck in the PvP when a person has a paid for card in their deck

 

 

and i can tell you, i'd feel the same with this one, so long as no dragons were hidden behind pay walls.

Edited January 5, 2016 by Red2111

[Fuzzbucket]

@ Fuzz - as a person who is in the lower teer, income wise (both the hubby and i are part time workers and full time students), i dont have the disposable income to put towards paid perks in free games ... but i also dont feel disadvantaged by paid perks in games.

 

Gems of War is a perfect example. my deck rocks, and i dont log in daily, but i'm able to earn plenty of keys, XP, and all 3 types of the in game currency to play the game above my satisfaction where it keeps me coming back.

 

 

there are paid perks, getting loads of in game currency for like $50, or certain cards and armor that is sick. i dont feel disadvantaged in that game and i dont begrudge people who have the disposable income to put towards a game.

 

 

and i can tell you, i'd feel the same with this one, so long as no dragons were hidden behind pay walls.

Kudos for you - and that's a lovely attitude. But still....

[laertid]

I understand people not wanting to bring "aaaand in other games we have THIS" to the thread, because, obviously, every game is unique in its own way, and for people who love DC their game is the best. But it's perfectly natural to compare one video game to another, one adoptable browser game to another. It's impossible not to, in fact.

 

And in all other MMO-games that I played (I played lots of them), browser-based or client-based, there are two options to become rich (in terms of the game: "rich" can mean not money, but, for example, pets, rare title, good weapon, anything) quickly: you pay or you play. I mean, play a lot.

 

(The games that aren't using this are mostly pay-to-play MMORPG, like WoW or Guild Wars 2; and they still have a shop with unique items in it.)

 

There is third way: you don't play (a lot, for example, you play only 1 hour a day), and you don't pay; well, you can still reach your goal. Just not that fast. Which, I think, is perfectly fine too.

 

I find it totally OK to have paid options on site. Like, we have or had such options on nearly any virtual pet site. Valenth, Dragonadopters, Magistream, Flight Rising, Ostlea, Chickensmoothie... I'm among those people who are all "take my money" if they like the game enough, because, it's just fair I think?

 

As far as I know, though, DC owner is against donations, donation pets and "golden accounts", am I right? So I'll be perfectly fine with a shop, minigames, flash games, battleground, practically anything. It's new interesting option, after all! Also it's good for making people visit the site every day. More people, more fun.

[Fiona]

I think you're missing my point, fuzz. We can only go so far to accommodate people who have neither funds nor time to invest. Keeping the point cap low to avoid grinding and keeping the cost of points low in terms of real money (if there is ever an option for real money purchase of points) is as far as I think we should go to accommodate people. Whether it is by their choice or no, they don't have the resources to invest in the game. Making it so someone who doesn't have the resources to invest can get everything anyway is akin to just handing stuff to people without effort. If we're going to do that, why not just have TJ land a full slate of prize dragons on each persons scroll? It is a matter of reaping what you sow.

 

And yes, I'm fully familiar with low wages for long hours, with having a family to take care of, with the consequences of living in poverty.

 

I think Thu's example of $20 to spend was just a number thrown out there that she budgets to spend on online games.

 

My thought was, if we have a weekly cap, $1 to $2 should be a reasonable amount to spend for that many points. So, if the weekly cap is 100 points (random number thrown out there, but based on 10 actions per day x 1.5 x 7 days in a week) and 100 points costs $2, or 50 points for a dollar. A month's worth of points would be only about $8, though the weekly cap would still apply. Yes, children playing the game probably wouldn't be able to pay that because of parental restrictions. People who live in poverty may not be able to pay that because feeding their family has priority. Again, we can only go so far in accommodating things like that.

[Thuban]

I left PAID options out of this suggestion, because that opens the door for some tricky territory, and right now, it is NOT needed to make this suggestion work. I dont mind the discussion happening, but i feel the need to make it clear that money is NOT NEEDED for this suggestion to work.

 

Im fine with opening doors to paid options, but it isnt required to make the basic idea possible. Its just polite to offer alternative options for those who are unable to play for whatever reason. My understanding of the twists you guys have added, was that the cap should be able to be easily reached, quickly, specifically for those people who can only play for an hour or less a day. That is why my example included 10 actions at 3 points each. It doesnt take long at all to do 10 actions. Mini game could exist for those people who want to earn a few extra points a day, but really doesnt need to be required. Its purely play how you want, if you want to bother.

 

 

(and yea, my $20 thing was the budget I use.. that i have used for years. Most months, I dont spend money. I took out a subscription on ESO, which eats three months of my budget for games. That same $20 is also my hair dye fund, my "i need new pathfinder stuff" fund or whatever my hobby of the month fund is. I budget the fun money when i can, and if i dont spend it, its just saved up for bigger purchases later. My eso subscription was a year of me not spending money on anything fun related...)

Edited January 5, 2016 by Thuban

[cyradis4]

I agree wtih Thu:

Discussion of paid perks or $$ for currency is not needed for this idea to work.

 

How about, we get a store and actual currency (right now we are using our dragons as currency) in-game. Lets let that normalize, and get everyone used to it and work out the bugs. THEN, once we have a functional store and functional currency, THEN we can talk about $$ for currency. Because otherwise this thread will get drowned in the "yes" "no" battles that $$ always brings.

 

Having said that, some notes:

 

- I like the idea of giving the subscription removal purchasers a point perk, but I prefer having a higher cap for them rather than "double" points. The end result is the same (can get more points per day) but the subscription purchaser must actually play to reach said cap instead of having it handed to them.

 

- I prefer a weekly cap. Reason is: you load up on eggs one day, and can't do much the next. Then grab eggs again, and so on and so forth. So the game naturally has "gaps" in play, so by having it be a weekly cap you cater to the most possible play styles.

 

- Mini-game vs play action: I think it would be best to have some of both, that way you can choose which you want.

 

- I'd prefer if it takes a long time to earn each CB Prize: 6 months to a year, but that it'd take two or so months to earn each CB Holiday, with the proviso that all current limits must be maintained.

 

- I would love to be able to have a blue-winged CB Solstice and a male Mistletoe... but I think that the store should be limited to what was actually available in the Cave at the time, or was available in the Raffles as either Prize or HM.

 

- IF CB Hybrids or Alts are available, I think those should cost 2 years worth of points, to really discourage people from getting them.

 

 

Cheers!

C4.

[stagazer_7]

My thought was, if we have a weekly cap, $1 to $2 should be a reasonable amount to spend for that many points. So, if the weekly cap is 100 points (random number thrown out there, but based on 10 actions per day x 1.5 x 7 days in a week) and 100 points costs $2, or 50 points for a dollar. A month's worth of points would be only about $8, though the weekly cap would still apply. Yes, children playing the game probably wouldn't be able to pay that because of parental restrictions. People who live in poverty may not be able to pay that because feeding their family has priority. Again, we can only go so far in accommodating things like that.

I don't like the idea of paying for DC content with RL money, I really don't... but if we absolutely had to squeeze it in for whatever reason, I think this would be acceptable (personally, I don't see that reason, the system could function without paying just fine). If you have the money and want to spend it this way, I'd be fine with it. I most certainly wouldn't use it, but maybe someone would and it would go to the site, so at least there's that.

 

But a very adamant no to gaining any extra points by paying and PLEASE don't to any paid Store Exclusive dragons, the beauty of DC is that, save for a few breeds, a player with a bit of luck and a lot of dedication can obtain pretty much any dragon. I guess I might be ok with some paid BSA's (undecided on this one), but again, not such that would change sprite appearance or enable players to get any exclusive dragons, but rather something that effects gameplay, like hatchie incubate and such (but it would be even more awesome if these were introduced into the game like they've been so far - for free, so everyone can enjoy it).

 

Yes, I'm sounding like a cheapskate here , but I like DC because at its heart it's not a greedy game, it offers so much to everyone on equal terms and that's a rarity in today's gaming. I'd be sad to see it changed... *cue sad violin song*

 

My understanding of the twists you guys have added, was that the cap should be able to be easily reached, quickly, specifically for those people who can only play for an hour or less a day. That is why my example included 10 actions at 3 points each. It doesnt take long at all to do 10 actions. Mini game could exist for those people who want to earn a few extra points a day, but really doesnt need to be required. Its purely play how you want, if you want to bother.

I really like your suggestion about low daily caps gained through gameplay - I also don't mind the idea of introducing minigames, but would much prefer if the points they gave counted towards reaching daily cap, not beyond. This way everyone can pick their preferred method of point gathering and not be forced into playing minigames to gather the maximum number of points. <3

Edited January 5, 2016 by stagazer_7

[pederino]

I agree wtih Thu:

Discussion of paid perks or $$ for currency is not needed for this idea to work.

 

How about, we get a store and actual currency (right now we are using our dragons as currency) in-game. Lets let that normalize, and get everyone used to it and work out the bugs. THEN, once we have a functional store and functional currency, THEN we can talk about $$ for currency. Because otherwise this thread will get drowned in the "yes" "no" battles that $$ always brings.

 

Having said that, some notes:

 

- I like the idea of giving the subscription removal purchasers a point perk, but I prefer having a higher cap for them rather than "double" points. The end result is the same (can get more points per day) but the subscription purchaser must actually play to reach said cap instead of having it handed to them.

 

- I prefer a weekly cap. Reason is: you load up on eggs one day, and can't do much the next. Then grab eggs again, and so on and so forth. So the game naturally has "gaps" in play, so by having it be a weekly cap you cater to the most possible play styles.

 

- Mini-game vs play action: I think it would be best to have some of both, that way you can choose which you want.

 

- I'd prefer if it takes a long time to earn each CB Prize: 6 months to a year, but that it'd take two or so months to earn each CB Holiday, with the proviso that all current limits must be maintained.

 

- I would love to be able to have a blue-winged CB Solstice and a male Mistletoe... but I think that the store should be limited to what was actually available in the Cave at the time, or was available in the Raffles as either Prize or HM.

 

- IF CB Hybrids or Alts are available, I think those should cost 2 years worth of points, to really discourage people from getting them.

 

 

Cheers!

C4.

I have to disagree on your last point. They should be pricey, yes; but not lets waste 2 years kind of pricey. I really dislike those kind of games that have completely unobtainable things, and showcase them as obtainable (though I dont hate the game on itselft, just that part of them, anyway), though here they would be obtainable, you would be wasting 2 years of work for a single dragon, one that really has not that big of a value. Discouraging is one thing, here you are simply putting them just to say anyone can get them...

1 year worth of points is enough, and is discouraging enough if you can get prizes in the same time, or holidays in half the time.

 

And about the influencable CB mistletoe, and the CB blue-winged solstice... well yes, they are kind of tricky, I mean, the mistletoes where meant to be female and male from the start (or so I heard) and was also meant to be the "opposite" of the holly, so they may not be a problem; but the blue-winged solstice was supposed to be the bred one, while the purple-winged was the CB, but then they changed how it worked and now you can get bred purple-wings.

[cyradis4]

I have to disagree on your last point. They should be pricey, yes; but not lets waste 2 years kind of pricey. I really dislike those kind of games that have completely unobtainable things, and showcase them as obtainable (though I dont hate the game on itselft, just that part of them, anyway), though here they would be obtainable, you would be wasting 2 years of work for a single dragon, one that really has not that big of a value. Discouraging is one thing, here you are simply putting them just to say anyone can get them...

1 year worth of points is enough, and is discouraging enough if you can get prizes in the same time, or holidays in half the time.

 

And about the influencable CB mistletoe, and the CB blue-winged solstice... well yes, they are kind of tricky, I mean, the mistletoes where meant to be female and male from the start (or so I heard) and was also meant to be the "opposite" of the holly, so they may not be a problem; but the blue-winged solstice was supposed to be the bred one, while the purple-winged was the CB, but then they changed how it worked and now you can get bred purple-wings.

If we can get both, then there will be a large number of people who will feel compelled to either kill or release their current Holiday, in order to get the additional one.

 

Given the current Holiday limits, I think it would just be far better all around to not open that can of worms and have what was available in CB be all that you can get in CB.

 

As for hybrids, I understand your point, and honestly? That obtainable-but-not-really is the reason I want them pricey: it will keep them super rare, and they are the one type of dragon that were never meant to be had in CB version by anyone but TJ. Because the honest truth is, a year or two down the road and most people will have a CB Prize or two, and the Holidays they missed. The CB hybrids would be in the back pocket, as both nearly-unobtainable goal and a very rare occurrence.

 

I, personally, have spent 2+ years working on ONE lineage project, and more than once. I'm on DC almost every day. I have all I want / can have of all CB dragons available at all times already, and 16+ of all of the hybrid types (almost all in 2nd gen) and alt types (almost all in 2nd gen). I'm only missing Val 09s, Yulebucks, and Hollies in CB versions. Spending 2+ years on one dragon I want is simplicity itself, because I've done it already and the points we are talking about are super easy to earn doing what I already do every day.

 

Not everyone plays the same way, and I'm a pretty hard-core player. And trust me: if I want a CB Hybrid, if it only cost 2 years to get one I'd have one... 2 years is not unobtainable!

 

Cheers!

C4.

[Fuzzbucket]

And about the influencable CB mistletoe, and the CB blue-winged solstice... well yes, they are kind of tricky, I mean, the mistletoes where meant to be female and male from the start (or so I heard) and was also meant to be the "opposite" of the holly, so they may not be a problem; but the blue-winged solstice was supposed to be the bred one, while the purple-winged was the CB, but then they changed how it worked and now you can get bred purple-wings.

I think both spriters involved would nix this one. Best ask them before even thinking about it. IN the case of the mistletoes I seem to recall a post by the spriter detailing why BRED ones were to be influenceable, but not CBs.

[Obscure_Trash]

As I said for another suggestion, I don't mind pay OR play, but I think people should choose one or the other and if we're going to put some kind of limits on how much people can earn by playing, the same should be in place for paying.

[Fiona]

It may not seem like it, but I'm not actually enthused about the idea of being able to exchange real $$ for points. Yes, of course this suggestion is not dependent on that being a thing. It keeps coming up though, so I wanted to address it and not just react negatively to it.

 

What C4 outlined is essentially mostly what I was thinking about the rest of this. However, something she didn't mention was the rest of the slate of dragons in the cave. I'd like to also have all the currently dropping dragons available in the store. I think it adds a lovely way to get dragons eggs. However, the cave should continue to be the principal way eggs are obtained, so the minimum price for a store egg should be a couple days' worth of points, in my opinion. There could however be sales run, where say a player could buy 5 CB waterhorse eggs for 100 points and get a CB pink included. Something like that, with the emphasis on what is offered in the deals being a way to encourage players to buy underpopulated breeds.

 

I realize that the likelihood is that most people would hoard their points initially toward prizes or holidays, but as the market settles in those kinds of deals would become more attractive.

 

I think if we're to keep the purchase of CB alts and hybrids to what TJ would consider "not regularly obtainable" (or however it was he phrased that) you'd almost have to have them cost 2 years' worth of points. Either that or have some sort of in-market regular raffle for them.

[stagazer_7]

I agree about CB Hybrids being very challenging to get, if Prizes would take around a year, then circa 1.5-2 years worth of points for Hybrids, who are ultra rare, seems fair.

Edited January 5, 2016 by stagazer_7

[Pokemonfan13]

But money can always buy an advantage. As long as it isn't for anything that actually affects game play I would reluctantly ignore it. But many of us cannot spend as much time on the site as we would like. Disclaimer: I can be here a lot, and I could spend a small amount if I chose.

 

But for "things that affect game play" reasons - what about - people who are working two jobs to make ends meet and barely have time to catch a couple of eggs before feeding the kids and going to bed, so can't do it by paying OR with time; students who can only manage to play on library computers between classes, those with capped internet who can't afford (or do not have the option in their plan) to pay extra to be here a lot, kids who are limited to an hour's play a day.... (and ACTUALLY I know some people who cannot have paypal because of where they live not allowing it - Ukraine was one I particularly recall, when I was trying to buy a book from someone I know there... I had to buy her an amazon token. I doubt if this store would accept those )

 

As soon as some people can buy with cash, they ARE advantaged over those who can't. Why should those who are short of both time and money be disadvantaged ?

 

It doesn't take a slippery slope - I know that even if I adduced it, TJ never accepts it . But money would advantage those who have it over those who don't, and even more over those with neither money not a LOT of time. Period.

A lot of those people are ALREADY disadvantaged because they can't play much, so they can't spend hours hunting rare things to keep or trade. Although an hour a day would probably be more than enough to pick up all the points they need. We can't make it completely fair, but the goal was to make it so that at least those who can't play much but also have money aren't also left out of the loop. It doesn't make the rest of the ones who can't play much any worse off compared to the ones that can, it just decreases the ranks of those who can't get what they want.

Edited January 6, 2016 by Pokemonfan13

[angelicdragonpuppy]

Apologies for just randomly tackling one point of the conversation, but I really don't think CB Alts / Hybrids should be worth more than a CB Prize. Heck, I don't think they should be worth even as much AS a prize. While CB Alts / Hybrids might be rarer in game than CB Prizes, yes, their offspring are worth notably less. Anyone can breed a 2g Alt and Hybrid. In contrast, there a lot of people who can't even breed 4g Prizes, much less 3gs, and certainly not 2gs! Plus, anyone who isn't a CB Prize owner HAS to rely on other people to get their first prize, even if "relying" in this case is just finding one in the AP. Ergo me believing everyone who's not a diehard collector would still favor prize offspring over CB Alt / Hybrid offspring any day. Having to spend far more work for something I'm sure would be worth far less in the long run seems silly to me.

 

If the only reason for suggesting it was TJ's viewpoint on CB Alts / Hybrids, then I think we should try to change his perspective more than anything (as futile as it likely will be, lol). In the real world, mutations and hybrids happen all the time. Sure, not to the ridiculous levels they do in human-controlled breeding, but there are still tons of amphibians, fish, and plants that hybridize all the time, just for starters, and odd quirks like albinos and strange color patterns pop up often too. Now, I can understand rationalizing that these things wouldn't survive IN THE WILD, but we aren't finding them living in the wild, are we? We're finding eggs abandoned by their mothers... and doesn't finding eggs the parents could somehow sense were non-viable / mutated and then abandoned make a heck of a lot more sense than finding normal, perfectly healthy eggs abandoned? It doesn't matter if they hatch out something that couldn't survive in the wild, because under our care, they don't have to. Last but not least... many dragons on DC are portrayed as human level intelligence or better. I daresay sentient creatures could form loving bonds irregardless of breed differences, making hybrids all the more likely to occur.

 

Sooo given all the above I've never really understood why CB Alts / Hybrids weren't a rare cave drop in themselves, and I certainly don't agree with making them the most expensive things to afford in a shop.

[Fiona]

If the choice is between making them very expensive and having them in the store or trying to change TJ's mind and never getting them, I'd much rather have them be very expensive, thank you.