Trader's Canyon

[Starscream]

If dragons are to be bought from a store, with points that could take months to obtain, then there should be a built in protection for those particular eggs and only those eggs. It is possible this protection can dissolve as soon as its traded (if trading is permitted.) off though. With that said, I think it would be important to really crack down on the multi- scrollers though.

[Pokemonfan13]

I think the consensus is that they won't be tradable. That would cut down on the benefit of multi-scrolling with the store, as they would only be able to send over 2nd gens, and even 2nd gens of prizes would not be /that/ valuable once enough time has passed that anyone would be able to own a CB.

 

But I always agree that multis need to be stomped.

Edited January 7, 2016 by Pokemonfan13

[olympe]

I think the consensus is that they won't be tradable. That would cut down on the benefit of multi-scrolling with the store, as they would only be able to send over 2nd gens, and even 2nd gens of prizes would not be /that/ valuable once enough time has passed that anyone would be able to own a CB.

 

But I always agree that multis need to be stomped.

Agreed. I'd rather see store stuff be un-tradeable than have built-in limits that go against certain play styles. I think it would be "good enough" if this trading prohibition was there for specials (prizes, holidays) and metals (except GW)

[Red2111]

i agree that multi-scrollers need to be stomped.

 

a built in protection for store bought dragons is a good thing.

 

having ALL eggs gotten from the store as untradable is a great thing. (though offspring from them should be tradable)

 

CB Hybrids or CB Alts from the store (that aren't in cave) dont get my support in this

 

placing limits on obtaining CB's from the store, outside of scroll limits already in place (2 CB Val/xmas & 3 GoN's) dont get my support.

 

 

we'll have a cap on how much currency we can earn/buy each year. and dragons will have set prices. these already act as limitations for what you can get.

 

adding a restriction of "only 1 CB prize" or whatever dragon is just over kill.

Edited January 7, 2016 by Red2111

[Ruby Eyes]

Well ... There are currently, as far as I can tell, 2 CB hybrids and 3 CB alts out there (not counting Thuweds). That's 5 people total. Being 1 of these, I do feel a little overwhelmed by the desire to make everyone happy who wants offspring from 1 of these special dragons, and seeing lots of "no egg" or "no interest" from my dragon recently, I think she's getting tired, too. So I'd rather be happy if a few more of those dragons would enter the DC world, and people could make more types of lineages with them than just stairs, spirals or whatever TJ paired his dragons with - and I'm not seeing any raffle (with or without HMs) in the near future, currently.

[Thuban]

Hey guys, the whole limit of one a year was what the people who were active at the time of that discussion came up with, and agreed on FWIW. Pretty much EVERY limit thats been mentioned.. was because users insisted on them, or they were added out of necessity to make it more feasible to have certain things (because otherwise it cant happen).

 

I still do not care how many prizes people figure out how to get with this thing,

I still think you guys are just over complicating everything, but im going along with it and relisting the limits that keep being brought up over and over again that I feel dont absolutely destroy what I want to see happen. Im Captain Middleman! Its what I do.

 

 

I am going diving for quotes now.

 

[Starscream]

I think the best bet is to let TJ decide the limits, long, short, Kumquat. and then We suck it up, whether or not we like it or not is not our concern. I know that the usual crew will totally disagree with his decision, but in the end, TJ makes the final calls. I don't care if it's two weeks or two years.

 

the only thing I am hell bent on is free protection for store bought eggs.

[Fuzzbucket]

the only thing I am hell bent on is free protection for store bought eggs.

I am also hellbent on their being untradeable.

[Fiona]

I think the best bet is to let TJ decide the limits, long, short, Kumquat.

You know that's going to happen anyway.

 

 

[olympe]

We already have free protection at our disposal. It's an action called "Hide", commonly referred to as "fogging". Then again, some players without forum accounts might not know that there are some people who enjoy making others miserable by viewbombing and killing their dragons. So, yes, auto-protection, at least for anything rare or "special" (prizes, hybrids, maybe even holidays) is a reasonable idea.

 

And +1 on untradeability. Best way to prevent abuse.

[Thuban]

On the first page of this thread is the original discussion of limits and stuff. Even I had forgotten that this thread had stemmed from a different thread (and as such some of the information that was being used in the beginning, is buried elsewhere)

 

 

I was a fan of having the limit for prizes be two of each one (so people could have a male and a female), but at some point in the discussion, it was pushed that only one of each type should be available. To this day, I still think that the prices need to be reasonable enough that you can still get other things IN ADDITION to a Prize. With the fluctuating prices i suggested, it could be possible to afford 2 prizes a year (if we agree to let go of that one per year limit).

 

 

 

 

[olympe]

You know, we'd see many people save up for a prize so they can buy them ASAP - at a rather low price because up to then, nobody has been able to buy one. With the huge initial rush, prize prices will soon skyrocket anyway.

[Fuzzbucket]

We already have free protection at our disposal. It's an action called "Hide", commonly referred to as "fogging".

True, but in the end you HAVE to take your egg/hatchie out of there to get it ANY views at all, and some people will immediately....

[FoxintheBox4]

You know, we'd see many people save up for a prize so they can buy them ASAP - at a rather low price because up to then, nobody has been able to buy one. With the huge initial rush, prize prices will soon skyrocket anyway.

Well the prices already do that now... There are less and less people that would actually accept higher than 3rd gen prize for even CB uncommons lately...

Logicly people without will go for CB prizes in order to actually complete their scroll goals and get dragons as CB Neglecteds/Golds/Silvers, 2nd gen Spriter's Alt offsprings etc. since it's almost impossible to do so now ~

 

So getting a CB prize from the store will finaly bring in some new opportunities to unfortunate past raffle's losers even if the value of dragons might change ~

Edited January 7, 2016 by WoLfgIrLyS

[HeatherMarie]

I have a question (and I'm not reading 56 pages of thread in an attempt to get an answer). Is this only for CBs? Because I'm thinking that stuff like CB Neglected are going to be insanely expensive, but non-CB Neglected might be more affordable, and preferable for someone like me.

 

I'm just trying to find some angle where this would be something I'd actually want to participate in.

 

I do like the idea of potions or items, for things like possible multi-clutches or guaranteed sickness protection. I'm wondering what the average cost for those kind of things would be, though. Would it be on par with a CB rare, or less expensive because it's not actually a CB dragon?

[stagazer_7]

I believe that smart pricing of dragons would make any scroll limits unnecessary. If someone wishes to collect Bronze Shimmers or CB Hellhorses at the expense of everything else the store has to offer, it'd be fine really - if it would take approximately 8-12 months of consistent gameplay to collect enough points for a single dragon, it would mean years to gather just a few of them - that should be limiting enough by itself, no?

 

I'd be fine with pricing Prizes at around 8-10 months of gameplay points and Hybrids a few months higher as they are rarer. For example, this would mean a Prize per year, with some points left on the side for a Holiday or two or something else. No, we wouldn't be able to get everything in a year. Yes, we'd have to decide which ones we really want - but that in its own way would be fun as well, different people would opt for different things and then we'd swap our dragon's descendants between us. I think we could strike a good balance between keeping these dragons rare and still slowly introducing more of them into the community. Of course, should a lower price be chosen, you wouldn't hear a peep of protest from me. ;3

 

Fluctuating prices for Cave breeds would be interesting. ^^ I don't see it working for Prizes, Holidays and CB Alts though.

 

I can't support a weekly raffle for Hybrids and Alts as a sole means of getting these dragons - I'd rather collect points for a year or more then place my bets on a slim chance of being lucky. But if it was extra content the store offered, I don't see why it wouldn't be included.

Edited January 7, 2016 by stagazer_7

[Thuban]

I have a question (and I'm not reading 56 pages of thread in an attempt to get an answer). Is this only for CBs? Because I'm thinking that stuff like CB Neglected are going to be insanely expensive, but non-CB Neglected might be more affordable, and preferable for someone like me.

 

I'm just trying to find some angle where this would be something I'd actually want to participate in.

 

I do like the idea of potions or items, for things like possible multi-clutches or guaranteed sickness protection. I'm wondering what the average cost for those kind of things would be, though. Would it be on par with a CB rare, or less expensive because it's not actually a CB dragon?

Neglecteds are NOT and have never BEEN considered for this.

 

Only dragons that are currently CAUGHT in cave, or are available as a choice for HM or Prizes. Holidays have a place, but only during their specific windows.

 

 

Im not going to try to price out potions.. because without knowing what could be available as options, I dont feel like its a good idea. It just adds more complications to have to work out, and as it is, there are a lot of things being repeated over and over (mostly because I am horrible at maintaining posts.)

[SullenCat]

I admit that I got lost reading the thread. I understand that Neglecteds will not be available and, actually, that makes me happy. Neglects require time and effort and they should stay that way. If I understand correctly, Spriter's Alt should not be available either, and I like that: they are a specific reward for artists.

Now, could someone confirm what I understood?

- CB Prizes would be available, up to two per year for each type (Gold, Silver, Bronze)

- CB Hybrids would be available

- CB Holidays (in particular Hollies) would be available but the limit would stay like the initial one: 2 per scroll

 

[Thuban]

- CB Prizes would be available, up to two per year for each type (Gold, Silver, Bronze)

 

Its 1-2 of each color, each type. Its unlikely people will get two a year, but with the fluctuating price, I suppose it could be possible. That bits not set in stone.

[Predat0rs]

I completely agree on the "No Neglecteds" part. That makes me glad, considering making a Neglected takes time, patience, dedication and many, many other things. I still have no idea how to make one; I won't ask for them to be in-store, though, simply because that would take away from ND Scientists.

[VixenDra]

Any longer than that, it gets to be too tedious, especially with that suggested limit of 1 of each type of prize AND accounting for only 1 cb hybrid or alt EVER per scroll.

 

1CB??? players are complaining about holiday limit of 2(wanting to rise it to at least 4 if not 8), especially for Aegis having 2 sprites and making lineage projects problematic (esp checker lineages, one can't make a 3gen checker using just their own dragons if one wants to have both Aegis sprites too; and you know what happens if you can't controll such stuff: people killing their dragons, in case of Aegis, can change the form/sprite; not that I'm into that myself but many people are and I sympathise with them on that)

 

Why not at least 2? everything that was ever limited in numbers was limited to 2, never 1 (even GoNs were to 2 before the Avatars)... And what's the point of having 1 CB hybrid, what can you do with it? They're not prizes, I doubt they'd go stairstep so well, I bet people would be mostly into making some checkery stuff with them. Ofc Thuweds function and have some value BTU they are Thuweds... not ordinary dragons everyone can buy in a store.

If there must be a limit of that kind, I'm for 2CBs PER hybrid breed. Same with alts (BTW I've seen a CB alt Black in existence - seen offspring offered in some trade-, so you know... maybe these should not be at all limited then if there are some like that in existence already)

 

As for Prizes, is it meant that one can have 1 bronze Tinsel, 1 bronze Shimmer etc.(meaning up to 6CB Prizes) OR 1 Tinsel and 1 Shimmer regardless the color? If 1st why not simply allow max of any 6 CB Prizes, so the player can choose whih thy have? Or like max 2 gold (but regardless the breed), 2 silver and 2 bronze (same), so one can decide to have e.g. 2 CB gold Shimmers.

I'd personally be for limit of 2 gold Tinsels, 2 gold Shimmers etc. For the sake of the gender thing and maybe finally seing some PB Prizes, or maybe finally having some more checkers (if one makes 2 males or females for that).

and ofc the won Prizes shouldn't count to the limit... so the winners wouldn't be anyhow punished and still having sth others can't(in this case additional CB Prizes)...

 

and I actually believe only the Prize dragons really deserve a tight limit.

 

in short:

*The tighest limits I'm for: limit of 2 per breed and alt, not 1.

*Limits I consider best:

2 per Prize alt (2gold Tinsels, 2 gold Shimmers, 2 sivler... etc.)

4 per hybrid breed

none for alts, or 8 if must be any

 

 

 

And I'd even add a possibility to buy a GoN limit extension.

It doesn't buy you a GoN, it buys you additional GoN slot and possibility to summon a GoN (you purchase the limit extension, not summoning attempt - because sometimes you need like a hundred tries and sometimes just 1 or even 2...).

Could be limited to 2 bought(additional) slots (the magical 2) OR to 3 (to double the number from 3 to 6). For many players ending up with 8(=5 additonal slots) would be perfect (I think it's checkers again) so I'm not closing this possibility either. But I don't think there should be more. And definitely so noone can make a GoN hoard. I think 3 additional GoNs is just right.

 

 

 

 

but all in all:

I believe that smart pricing of dragons would make any scroll limits unnecessary. If someone wishes to collect Bronze Shimmers or CB Hellhorses at the expense of everything else the store has to offer, it'd be fine really - if it would take approximately 8-12 months of consistent gameplay to collect enough points for a single dragon, it would mean years to gather just a few of them - that should be limiting enough by itself, no? wink.gif

agreed:)

Edited January 10, 2016 by VixenDra

[pederino]

I agree with VixenDra, at first it seemed you stopped having that "high restriction mentality" (not that is bad, but "everything in excess is bad" is something my mother always told me), and all of a sudden... well, this. I think that the restrictions VixenDra gave were good enough, although there should not be any in my opinion if:

 

*A single CB prize / hybrid / alt takes you a year to collect.

 

People will have to decide which they want from that pool of 6 prizes, 3 alts, and 10 hybrids (6 real hybrids, plus 4 striped dragons colors; not counting the avatars): 19 dragons (22 if you want to add the avatars), it would take you 19 (22 with avatars) years to get 1 of every one of those dragons as CB, and thats not taking in account you buy another dragon for one reason or the other, which is most likely to happen, I mean, there are: golds, silvers, almandines, spessartines, coppers (3 of them to be precise), red dorsal and tan ridgewing, oh and also the trio: thunder, ice, and magma, the possibility of people really going only for the prizes and hybrids is not that big, and if you put a timespan to getting them so big, people will most often change their desires / efforts on easier dragons.

About the neglecteds, I dont think its inclusion will damage anyone, really. First of all, they cant breed, they are just decoration, like papers, cheese, dinos, and chickens. Second: they would be untradeable, so no problem to the trademarket. And third: with a high enough price (from 1.5 to 2 years) and the above points you can easily discourage anyone from buying it. Kind of ironic I mention this timeframe when I was against it for hybrids, but this is different, this dragon is really rare (or difficult to get / make) and is really valuable to the userbase, CB hybrids / alts... not that much (to make is basically impossible, yes. But its valuability is really not that great), and 2nd gen hybrids from CB hybrids are even less. But again, there is no need for the neglected to be in the store, really.

For the GoN slots idea of VixenDra, it sounds like a good one, and it can also serve as distraction to make players not buy prizes and hybrids / alts as often, at least for a short period of time (1 year: 1 slot every 4 months). Though I also agree that this one should have a limit, and a limit of 3 is good enough in my opinion, not too little, not too much.

[Pokemonfan13]

I agree that the price set for the "special" dragons (prizes, CB alts, CB hybrids, etc) of a year or a little less is more than enough of a restriction without having anything explicit.

 

The only benefit to having a restriction of one of each prize variety (6 total) is allowing the prize winners to keep something special, as they would be the only ones who could breed PB of their breed and color.

[Thuban]

I limit hybrids to 1, because as it stood last time i talked to TJ, they werent going to be allowed to play in this idea. It is possible he might change his mind and let them play, but I'm accounting for the whole thing of making them crazy limited to help them be ALLOWED to take part in this. I will NOT budge here, sorry. This is something that will be COMPLETELY up to TJ to handle.

 

Fluctuating prices is how I intend to get around that whole "limit of one a year" that had been insisted on. It doesnt really matter how many people can get, as long as they have earned the points to get them. Previous winners will ALL have the benefit of being able to have (1-2) more prizes than the rest of us do, AND their special codes or whatever they might have. Having the prices change, keeps it interesting. When and IF the time comes, I'm sure that the staff will work out a decent range of prices for everything. Prizes dropping down to "6 months" price range, would probably be a rather rare occurrence. I prefer to see 8-10 months as the standard for those, instead of a full year.

 

Neglecteds will NOT play a part, period. Not budging. They can not be chosen as a prize, caught in cave ever... therefore they are not eligible.

 

[Lastalda]

Not a big fan of fluctuating prices - I'd rather know what I'm saving up to, and that I can still buy what I want once I have the points. Having the prize skyrocket just days before I'm finally there would be very frustrating, and IMO needlessly complicated.

(Also, I don't think people would use the store to buy underpopulated breeds, anyway - the ratios make these fairly easy to catch anyway, without using points. So I see no reason for fluctuating prices.)

 

Having to save one year for a CB prize and nothing else seems totally fine with me, and IMO would limit them enough. And if someone would rather spend 6 years getting 6 CB silver shimmers instead of 6 different prizes, that should be fine - DC is all about "how you play is up to you", after all.

Having to save 1.5 years or so for a CB hybrid should keep these really rare, too.

 

However, if "1 per breed and color" is the only way we can get CB prizes into the store at all, then I guess that's better than not getting them at all.

 

But TJ has repeatedly stated that in Suggestions, people should not try to second-guess him but state what they think would be good. He gets final vote what to implement anyway.

 

So I'm stating that very high prices are all the limits that I think are needed for CB Prices and CB hybrids (which would also make things less complicated than specific limits, which is good), and I'd really really want them to be obtainable through the store (prices more than hybrids, though).

 

I also agree that anything got from the store should be definitely untradeable and hopefully sickness-protected.

Edited January 21, 2016 by Lastalda