Trader's Canyon

[Rally Vincent]

Rally: while I do see some of your points, I dont agree with you.

 

This suggestion isnt about turning dc into something new, or giving people exclusive things willy nilly. For some things, you absolutely do NOT have to play the game. The options for standard game play earning the "points" has been brought up (but at this time, has not been written into either of the informational posts relating to my specific suggestion.

 

With MY specific option (as the other suggestions brought up have not been linked in my two posts either yet) ONLY prizes, if they are included and cb holidays would require you to /actually/ visit the store.

I seem not to have brought my concerns across. Let me rephrase.

 

My main concern is different that the shop's existence itself will act as open floodgate for other suggestions that stray further from the way DC is played now. People won't lean back and say: Now we have everything leveled, let's never talk about egg creation outside the cave again. Other suggestzions will follow suit, and it will be very difficult to argue against that when there already is the shop as precedent.

Edited January 14, 2015 by Rally Vincent

[Fuzzbucket]

I seem not to have brought my concerns across. Let me rephrase.

 

My main concern is different that the shop's existence itself will act as open floodgate for other suggestions that stray further from the way DC is played now. People won't lean back and say: Now we have everything leveled, let's never talk about egg creation outside the cave again. Other suggestzions will follow suit, and it will be very difficult to argue against that when there already is the shop as precedent.

I'm inclined to agree, I'm afraid. It would RADICALLY change the game we have all learned to love.

[Walron]

I'm inclined to agree, I'm afraid. It would RADICALLY change the game we have all learned to love.

But from what I've heard the raffle already did that

[Angeles]

And such is the nature of mankind, Rally, to never be absolutely completely happy with their position, that's why people go to work to earn money, but work hard towards a promotion for more money, so that they can live in a better house, then move to a better part of the city so on and so forth. No one will ever be truly completely happy, that's why things like Influence and Teleport and all the others were implemented. Did those mechanics cause outcries and rallies to have them not exist/take them away? Yes. But here they still are, an accepted and liked mechanic of the majority. I still see people with anti-teleport badges in their signatures. Point of the fact is. You can't please everyone, but you can please the majority.

 

That's how it is. Sorry.

 

If this suggestion gets implemented and causes more suggestions there's nothing we can do about it, except trust in TJ to make the best judgment to please the majority and keep his game running the way he best sees fit.

[TJ09]

I am of different opinion. The raffle lets a few players have their special eggs. The shop will turn eggs-outside-cave from exception to rule. The consequences of a shop will outweigh what is perceived as positive. In addition to new suggestions to get eggs, which will be inevitable, you will also just replace raffle complaints with shop/mini game complaints, like:

 

"I can't log in every day like others, it's so unfair that I cannot gather as much mana as the others."

"I need more CB Alts for my lineage project, why has there to be a limit/points cap."

 

The possibilities for complaints are manyfold, and it will happen. Solving a problem with another problem doesn't seem great in itself to me, and when you add the 'open door for' on it, I have to say: Think carefully what you might summon upon the game with this suggestion.

 

Of course, I may be wrong with all of this. I just think this is at least very plausible. In my opinion, you guys mostly discuss what you see as positive (with truth to an extent, no doubt), but in your euphoria neglect the dangers of this suggestion.

You use words like "will" and "inevitable" for future events that haven't happened yet.

 

While you're at it, can you tell me which stock is about to experience rapid growth?

 

Honestly, though, the class of complaints you describe already exists in terms of obtaining eggs. Substitute the cave in there ("I can't log in every day, it's unfair I don't get to see as many rares as others"), and voilà. And potential for whining should never be a reason to avoid doing something.

[TJ09]

I seem not to have brought my concerns across. Let me rephrase.

 

My main concern is different that the shop's existence itself will act as open floodgate for other suggestions that stray further from the way DC is played now. People won't lean back and say: Now we have everything leveled, let's never talk about egg creation outside the cave again. Other suggestzions will follow suit, and it will be very difficult to argue against that when there already is the shop as precedent.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/slippery-slope

 

Beyond the fact that the consequence you are arguing isn't even a terrible thing (oh no, people might suggest things), keep in mind that there is a barrier to which suggestions actually happen. It's not like having a ton of spontaneous egg creation suggestions suddenly means they'll all get implemented.

[Thuban]

I seem not to have brought my concerns across. Let me rephrase.

 

My main concern is different that the shop's existence itself will act as open floodgate for other suggestions that stray further from the way DC is played now. People won't lean back and say: Now we have everything leveled, let's never talk about egg creation outside the cave again. Other suggestzions will follow suit, and it will be very difficult to argue against that when there already is the shop as precedent.

Any hybrids that come out in the future, would have a delay before being put into the shop. Perhaps the 2-3 year delay that is being suggested for holidays and prizes as well.

 

 

I dont think there will be store exclusive dragons, but yes, it is possible this game might eventually evolve in that direction. It is something I put thought into before adding it into the first post (but I had selfish reasons for that which i admitted a few times, but also gave up on fighting for). I believe that something like that is against the core value of this game, but as long as time is taken (and the general user base is given a chance ahead of time to weigh in on the possibility before it goes into effect) its something that might be able to happen smoothly, IF it has to happen. I really, really dont think it will.

 

 

And yes... people are going to make suggestions left and right (quick glance into this section will show you that since theres what.. 3 now?) but.. I'm sure the mods will come up with a way to keep that in check.

 

 

Ideally, I want to see this thing happen in some format (even if mine is simplest...other variations could work) and then be left alone for a few years, no store things being added, no new dragons being added (outside of adding a new holiday from three years prior each year). If the suggestion itself is working out well, then theres no reason to change things. If its not, then things need tweaked.

[PolarVortex]

Just want to jump in again and say I really love where this idea is headed! Mucho support from me! I was skeptical at first, but I really like all that Thuban has laid out. Personally I think the mana/summon mechanic is important and definitely makes the whole thing far more appealing than a "store" but I totally get that ultimately it's the same thing with a different name.

 

As for trophy level... I don't see why you shouldn't start collecting mana/points right away as a new member, because from the sounds of the costs it doesn't seem likely that anyone would be able to summon/afford anything before they reached a fairly high trophy level anyway, just based on the time and game commitments.

[cyradis4]

Just want to jump in again and say I really love where this idea is headed! Mucho support from me! I was skeptical at first, but I really like all that Thuban has laid out. Personally I think the mana/summon mechanic is important and definitely makes the whole thing far more appealing than a "store" but I totally get that ultimately it's the same thing with a different name.

 

As for trophy level... I don't see why you shouldn't start collecting mana/points right away as a new member, because from the sounds of the costs it doesn't seem likely that anyone would be able to summon/afford anything before they reached a fairly high trophy level anyway, just based on the time and game commitments.

Oh I agree! Start collecting points right away.

 

But I still think that having a Bronze Trophy to summon would be A Very Good Idea. For 99% of legit users, they won't even notice the limit. But a multi will. They'll actually have to put a bit of effort into the scroll then.

 

Cheers!

C4.

[PolarVortex]

Oh I agree! Start collecting points right away.

 

But I still think that having a Bronze Trophy to summon would be A Very Good Idea. For 99% of legit users, they won't even notice the limit. But a multi will. They'll actually have to put a bit of effort into the scroll then.

 

Cheers!

C4.

Oh good point! I'm in favor of that... that you can accrue points from day one but can't use them until Bronze.

[Cinnamin Draconna]

Thuban.. I think we're on the same page with every idea except 1. I don't like the idea of waiting 2 - 3 years for a new 'prize' dragon to be added to the store. The 'prize' dragons are the main problem with the DC economy and giving new 'winners' 2 - 3 MORE years of 'lording it over all of us' is NOT what needs to happen.

 

Six months at the most. Anything over that is just letting a teeny tiny minority rule the trading market. It's totally unfair to the rest of us and is what I've been fighting against since the 1st raffle. Enough is enough.. it's time for the 'have nots' to be allowed back in the trading game.

[Rally Vincent]

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/slippery-slope

 

Beyond the fact that the consequence you are arguing isn't even a terrible thing (oh no, people might suggest things), keep in mind that there is a barrier to which suggestions actually happen. It's not like having a ton of spontaneous egg creation suggestions suddenly means they'll all get implemented.

So basically you tell me I am not to voice my concerns because I cannot prove they will come true?

[Angeles]

I'm.... terribly reminded of the French revolution suddenly. They aren't the aristocrats, we aren't the peasants in the street screaming 'bread.' Can we not start pointing fingers and saying 'us' and'them,' please? Some of the CB prize owners want a solution to the problem as well; they're not 'lording' over us.

 

That said, I do agree that the prizes should be made available to the public a little sooner than two-three years. Maybe just one year, like waiting for the chance to breed Holiday dragons again. Everyone here is already used to having to wait a year for something, one more thing shouldn't be terrible.

[olympe]

But I still think that having a Bronze Trophy to summon would be A Very Good Idea. For 99% of legit users, they won't even notice the limit. But a multi will. They'll actually have to put a bit of effort into the scroll then.

I don't agree with this. Not because I am a multi (which I'm not, just for the recorD!), but because it doesn't make any sense. If someone wants to cheat with multiple accounts, having to raise 50 dragons is no bother to them. Grab from AP, dump in hatcheries, wait, repeat. Even if there are only 6 day eggs in the AP, a user can raise 50 dragons in about 4 weeks (and one day). That's really not much of an effort IMHO.

 

Besides, getting ultra rares on more than one scroll won't do you that much good. First of all, you'd need to do whatever you need to do to get mana/gold/points/whatever for each and every scroll, and then you can't even transfer the CBs from one scroll to another. (Sure, you could trade away offspring and boost one scroll that way - but seriously, someone will notice sooner or later and report it. Which results in burnt scrolls.

 

So basically you tell me I am not to voice my concerns because I cannot prove they will come true?

Not exactly. Sure, it's almost a given that people will come up with more "spontaneous egg creation" suggestions - but there are checks in places. Because TJ doesn't implement every suggestion. (Or he'd already be in over his head, lol.) Edited January 14, 2015 by olympe

[JavaTigress]

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/slippery-slope

 

Beyond the fact that the consequence you are arguing isn't even a terrible thing (oh no, people might suggest things), keep in mind that there is a barrier to which suggestions actually happen. It's not like having a ton of spontaneous egg creation suggestions suddenly means they'll all get implemented.

Actually... the Boss Man has an excellent point here.

 

JUST because a thing is suggested doesn't mean that it will come to pass. EVEN IF Thuban convinces TJ that this idea is well thought-out enough to be implemented ( Which I am really liking what I see so far. Course, I say that at least in PART because I'd like the chance to buy me some rares ) it doesn't NECESSARILY follow that if fifty other ideas were suggested that even ONE of them would get past TJ. IF he doesn't want to implement it, he won't. It also wouldn't stop other users from opposing suggestions they do not like , as they have always done.

[Rally Vincent]

Honestly, though, the class of complaints you describe already exists in terms of obtaining eggs. Substitute the cave in there ("I can't log in every day, it's unfair I don't get to see as many rares as others"), and voilà. And potential for whining should never be a reason to avoid doing something.

The reason of this suggestion is supposed to reduce the complaints that come from the raffle, that is what I understood. If those complaints are just replaced instead of reduced, I don't feel like supporting it.

[Angeles]

Fair enough Rally, thank you for your opinion on the matter.

[Jazeki]

I like Polar Vortex's idea of being able to collect mana/points from the start, but not being able to use them until you reach a bronze trophy. Or, as a compromise, until whenever the new user tutorial disappears from a new person's scroll.

 

I'd also prefer if 6-12 months was the delay for adding new dragons to the shop. I think prizes should appear between 6-12 months and new holidays appear a year later (before their next breeding cycle).

[Prince_Xanthius]

My main concern is different that the shop's existence itself will act as open floodgate for other suggestions that stray further from the way DC is played now. People won't lean back and say: Now we have everything leveled, let's never talk about egg creation outside the cave again. Other suggestzions will follow suit, and it will be very difficult to argue against that when there already is the shop as precedent.

But we are still only talking about getting eggs and raising dragons. I don't think it is that game changing, especially if worded as summoning, or better yet imo a GUIDING spell which leads you to eggs that have (rp-wise) already been laid, but are so rare that they are not otherwise seen in the cave, or at least, not in the eggs close enough to reach. It's not really any more spontaneous than the cave itself.

 

It needs to be kept to JUST EGGS - no extra egg slots, no 'incubate/influence spells' no anything except the ability to summon/find eggs that are not otherwise avaiable as CB in the cave, a year after they are released (or for prizes, 1 year after they STOP being released in the raffle).

 

I do think the 'currency,' whatever it ends up as, should be simple (not dark mana, light mana, life mana etc etc, just 'mana'), untradeable, and a capped weekly limit. There should be multiple ways to earn it - a minigame, reviewing descriptions, clicking others eggs, raising your dragons - but all to the same cap. So even if I choose to only click dragons, I don't have less earning potential than Joe Bloggs who clicks dragons, reviews descriptions, and plays the minigame. That way those who don't want to grind a minigame don't have to, and it also prevents people buying dragons off each other (which in every other game I have ever played, leads to huge inflation and splits the players into the rich who can afford things and poor who can afford very little that they actually want to buy).

 

I don't see the point in forcing people to have a trophy, as the costs sound like they'd need to be fairly committed any way, and if they do but something like a prize then leave the game, well, it doesn't exactly hurt the rest of us any way.

[Red2111]

so taking into account the new discussion, heres what i see as the "store" having evolved into at this point.

 

 

- mana based collecting game allowing users to "call" (or summon) an egg depending on how much mana they store up. the rarer the dragon, the more mana it takes and the more complicated the spell

- spells have CD times, in terms of amount of mana needed to cast the spell you're aiming for.

- Mana and eggs "called" are not tradable; but all of them are breedable and their offspring are tradable

- mana does not expire.

- possible replacement for the current raffle system

- All "callable" species will have a waiting period before being introduced into the store (suggested time is 2 - 3 years)

 

List of "callable" eggs and their proposed limits (raffle winners dragons do not count towards limits, unless its the CB Holiday limit)

 

- CB Shimmer (limit 1 per scroll)

- CB Tinsel (limit 1 per scroll)

- CB Hybrid/Alt (limit 2 per scroll)

- CB Previous Holiday (limit 2 per scroll; deferring to the scroll limit already in place. this applies to CB Halloweens offered in store) [ so if you have 1 CB Sweetling, you can only purchase 1 from the store; but if you have CB Marrows you can by up to 2 Marrows form the store

 

**Possibility of allowing non-limited like ND's and Metals as callable as well

**Possibility of adding Avatars to the list of callable Hybrids

 

Non-Callable Limited Dragons: GoN, Spriters Alts, Alt Sweetling

 

proposed list of acceptable methods for collecting mana are:

- mini game

- collecting dragons

- holiday events

- daily logging in bonus

 

* possible restrictions:

- proposed failure rate of calling in the form of losing mana used on a calling spell (either all or partial mana loss)

- ability to cast certain calling spells attached to trophy limit (an alternate to this would be capping the level of mana reservable based on trophy)

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'd like to see this idea REPLACE the Raffle.

 

i like this idea as well, and in this case is one of the options where i would support non-HM Prizes being offered in the store

 

I don't like the idea of waiting 2 - 3 years for a new 'prize' dragon to be added to the store. The 'prize' dragons are the main problem with the DC economy and giving new 'winners' 2 - 3 MORE years of 'lording it over all of us' is NOT what needs to happen.

 

 

i really dislike your tone and attitude towards prize winners. i've talked to many prize winners and none, and i do mean none of them have ever in my 3 years of playing this game and being on this forum "lorded" their prizes over any members.

 

to try and attach such a character assassination on them because they got lucky in a game of chance and are doing what every human would in their place (using a highly valued good to take care of their personal needs) does not mean that their lording anything over those of us that haven't won in the raffle.

 

i always have and always will be very vocal about defending winners against accusations and flippant statements such as this.

 

just because you may personally disagree with the raffle and feel contempt for how the raffle has altered the game doesn't give you any right to take out that frustration on the winners by slandering them and belittling them in this sort of fashion.

 

it just aint kosher.

Edited January 14, 2015 by Red2111

[LaHaine]

The reason of this suggestion is supposed to reduce the complaints that come from the raffle, that is what I understood. If those complaints are just replaced instead of reduced, I don't feel like supporting it.

Judge it as a new feature, not a replacement one then. You are basically shutting down all raffle replacements suggestions with the whole "but this feature MIGHT upset people and generate more suggestions!" story. We don't know what's gonna happen. There is raffle drama already anyway, why not try a new feature for once to see where it goes? If that one generates too many problems, great we learned that it didn't work either, next!

If we just sit and frown at every suggestion to make cb prizes more accessible, there WILL be raffle drama forever.

 

I don't understand what's the problem with trying out new things, even if they bring more problems, TJ will address those as well. Sorry, I just can't see how "it might not work out" is a valid concern.

Edited January 14, 2015 by LaHaine

[lorimmel]

i always have and always will be very vocal about defending winners against accusations and flippant statements such as this.

 

just because you may personally disagree with the raffle and feel contempt for how the raffle has altered the game doesn't give you any right to take out that frustration on the winners by slandering them and belittling them in this sort of fashion.

 

it just aint kosher.

 

@Red2111, I do not feel belittled or slandered in any way by Cinnamin Draconna (who also put the "lording" thing in quotes).

If I do feel offended or belittled or slandered in any way, I hit the "report" button and the problem disappears. I have done it only once in my dc career, but it worked miracles.

[Cinnamin Draconna]

Your Mileage May Vary... mine is that I've been outright insulted by certain 'prize winners' and very much resent it. Certain CB Holly owners have treated me the same way. So I think I have just as much right to be against the raffle as those who want to keep it. For me it's the Haves vs. the Have Nots, with the Haves having all of the leverage.

 

Otherwise, that's a pretty good summation, tho I'd prefer some adjustments..

CB Shimmer (limit 2 per scroll, per color variant)

CB Tinsel (limit 2 per scroll, per color variant)

CB Hybrid/Alt (no limits)

CB Previous Holiday (limit 2 per scroll; deferring to the scroll limit already in place. this applies to CB Halloweens offered in store) [ so if you have 1 CB Sweetling, you can only purchase 1 from the store; but if you have CB Marrows you can by up to 2 Marrows form the store I see no reason to limiit Halloweens since there are no limits when they are released (previous discussion changed my mind)

 

**Possibility of allowing non-limited like ND's and Metals as callable as well do not agree with this

**Possibility of adding Avatars to the list of callable Hybrids - definitely

 

Non-Callable Limited Dragons: GoN, Spriters Alts, Alt Sweetlings

Edited January 14, 2015 by Cinnamin Draconna

[Angeles]

Still lumping every individual into a group because of how one or a few treated you isn't going to solve anything, especially if they are trying to help. In turn, I give the example of a player (I won't say who) who lumps all of us who want the fair chance at a CB prize 'greedy, ungrateful little whiners,' just because of the behavior she's seen in a few players. It doesn't feel nice either way.

 

Do unto others and all that.

 

However I do agree with your proposed limits entirely.

Edited January 14, 2015 by Angeles

[Obscure_Trash]

Due to the fast paced nature of these recent/raffle threads, I'm really cracking down on them. Name calling is unacceptable. Please take personal disputes to PM. If necessary, please use the report function and leave the situation to a moderator. In the thread, let's stay focused on the actual topic. Thank you.