Trader's Canyon

[amthystfire]

Oh, my thoughts exactly... I'm against Prize dragons being in the store but I'm okay with everything else.

Well, with 600 coming out, perhaps TJ is planning to implement a 'store' but not with the prize dragons.

[Thuban]

Yet another raffle is not a store though, it's a different concept. New thread for that?

I think you may have misread what I was trying to say.. or that maybe I worded it badly.

 

There has to be a reason that they arent in the raffle. It could very well be because he likes one of these suggestions, but it could also be because adding more prizes somehow prevents him from giving out the HMs.

 

If something comes up that would keep him from allowing HMs in the store as something you can just pick, and stock up on, then maybe the only option would be to offer a lottery ticket in the store that would give out HMs. The other options (Prizes and/or cb holidays) would still exist to save up for, but the tickets would be far cheaper and could be purchased as many times as you can afford in each time window, and would ONLY give out the non-holiday HM prizes.

 

 

This idea isnt about changing what this suggestions base function is, its coming up with alternative options within the framework I pitched to still keep them available, even if the ability to pick /specific/ ones doesnt exist. However, I think if this ends up being a route that happens.. seeing as the prizes this year are not tradable, only abandonable.. that same thing (however annoying it may be) would probably be in effect on this too.

Edited January 15, 2015 by Thuban

[Ruby Eyes]

Call it lottery or raffle, it's still the same: it's based on luck.

[amthystfire]

Personally, I like the idea of a potentially more immersive experience that is totally optional, regardless of what is specifically ultimately decided upon as the eventual end prize. That is what Thuban has laid out, and if it expands later, then it expands.

 

But I think that the basic framework that we have here is good. Making suggestions as to what those eventual end prizes could be, while helpful, is not our decision (sadly). But arguing that "I will only like this suggestion if XX is included" and another person saying "I will only like this suggestion if XX is NOT included" is getting us off track. Either you support the idea, and you will trust that TJ won't break HIS game, or you don't.

 

 

/rant.

 

Now, the raffle has been announced, and is HUGE! let us rejoice, and try to work out the play mechanics of this so that the site mechanics of it can be worked to make it as close as possible to what the majority of people want.

[Jazeki]

I would still prefer the store to have HMs if at all possible. If it were just holidays and prizes, I would try to get whatever prizes I could outside of holiday windows. Then, I would get one sweetling, one snow angel, two hollies, some more marrows and shadow walkers and call it a day.

[Obscure_Trash]

So, no more raffle HMs ...

 

Now this store (or similar implementations for getting the former HM rewards) would be the only chance left to get them.

Aaaaand now I really want one of these suggestions. If cb hybrids had never been given out to users, I'd be fine, but now that they were and it seems we don't have to see them for the raffle, some way to reward a lucky few with them is good.

[Camiza]

*Tries to duck all the rotten tomatoes*

When I think HM, all my vision suddenly becomes red, with a holly leaf stuck to it. So yeah, as long as a holly is in there, I will be collecting the mana thingies as long as it takes

*Ducks some more*

Hear, hear, you said what I had in mind!! I'll give you some fresh tomatoes.

[Ayelldee]

I love everything about this idea... except the Prize dragon part. As much as I would love for everyone to have one, that would kinda ruin the Christmas event for me. I know that sounds ridiculous, as I'm more likely to be struck by lightning than win, but I've always felt those breeds were supposed to be special and reserved for the event they were created to be prizes for. That said, I have always wanted to have access to the older holidays I wasn't around for or missed because life happened. This seems like a wonderful compromise to re-releasing them. People still have to work for it, but the chance to obtain them is there. I hope this gets done, minus the Prize dragons. Thank you for posting this. ♥

So well-said! Right on the money. Old Holidays? Yes. Frills/Pinks? Yes. All the CB 'specials' (hybrids,colored stripes)? Yes. Shimmers and Tinsels - no, they're Prizes - awarded to prize-winners. Yes, someone's cookie may have more chocolate chips than yours. Enjoy the cookie you have.

[LibbyLishly]

So well-said! Right on the money. Old Holidays? Yes. Frills/Pinks? Yes. All the CB 'specials' (hybrids,colored stripes)? Yes. Shimmers and Tinsels - no, they're Prizes - awarded to prize-winners. Yes, someone's cookie may have more chocolate chips than yours. Enjoy the cookie you have.

You know, some of us are able to support something like Prizes being obtainable in some form other than the raffle AND still be happy with what we have in the meantime.

[Cinnamin Draconna]

Anything that even resembles a raffle gets a big NO from me. I prefer certainty and I HATE random anything, nor do I like surprises. And I will still push for having Tinsels and Simmers in the store... and CB Holidays.. and CB hybrids.. and CB ALTs.

 

In games where you can buy things with real money, it's expected that exclusivity will be part of the game. But DC is free, so there should not be any exclusivity. Everyone should be able to get every dragon. TJ made a HUGE mistake when he added the raffle, and I see this idea as a solution to that mistake. My personal choice would be for the store to replace the raffle, but I can live with it being just an addition.. as long as the store includes ALL the dragons avialable or once available from the raffle.

[Fuzzbucket]

You know, some of us are able to support something like Prizes being obtainable in some form other than the raffle AND still be happy with what we have in the meantime.

This. Prizes would have to cost a VERY LOT - but even so...

[Mew_1]

I like most of this suggestion... Not really a fan of introducing breeds that are only available in the store, though.

And if this actually does get implemented I hope there will be other ways to gain points rather than just playing minigames...

[Tawanda001]

Aaaaand now I really want one of these suggestions. If cb hybrids had never been given out to users, I'd be fine, but now that they were and it seems we don't have to see them for the raffle, some way to reward a lucky few with them is good.

If some new way to distribute HM into the community doesn't happen guess what becomes the new 'coin of the realm' and starts commanding the outrageous trade prices? Since CB alt are even less common than prizes the owners could basically ask for the moon for offspring. I could be wrong but I don't think TJ would want to open up that particular can of worms, I hope...

 

ETA, left out a word that changes my whole point, gah need more sleep

Edited January 15, 2015 by Tawanda001

[Sir Barton]

....well really had the fingers crossed to get a CB Hellhorse one day, (Mardi Gras Lineage can't use bred ones) so now I REALLY want this to happen. I would be nice to still have a shot at the dream.

[LibbyLishly]

I like most of this suggestion... Not really a fan of introducing breeds that are only available in the store, though.

And if this actually does get implemented I hope there will be other ways to gain points rather than just playing minigames...

Some people have been talking about including passive ways of gaining points - there's a thread dedicated to solely that. I would like to see some of the "passive" earning ideas integrated with this one, if it were to be implemented.

[Naruhina_94]

If some new way to distribute HM into the community happens guess what becomes the new 'coin of the realm' and starts commanding the outrageous trade prices? Since CB alt are even less common than prizes the owners could basically ask for the moon for offspring. I could be wrong but I don't think TJ would want to open up that particular can of worms, I hope...

However this suggestion wouldn't make the CB Alt/hybrid tradeable. It would let everybody try to earn their own, without depending on others.

[Tawanda001]

However this suggestion wouldn't make the CB Alt/hybrid tradeable. It would let everybody try to earn their own, without depending on others.

Sorry, you posted while I edited. I meant that if there isn't a new way to get HM into the community the 'price' for the existing HM OFFSPRING could go through the roof.

Quiitting my post, too tired to think and type coherently

Edited January 15, 2015 by Tawanda001

[Amazon_warrior]

Sorry, you posted while I edited. I meant that if there isn't a new way to get HM into the community the 'price' for the existing HM could go through the roof.

This. Also I'm expecting increased pressure on spriters with alts. :/

[Lurhstaap]

Nope, I want CB colored Stripes.. and CB ALTs.. and CB Hellhorses.. etc. etc. etc.

 

While they probably would not be my first purchase/redemption, once I had a pair of CB Hollies and pairs of all the prizes.. which we have pretty much established will have scroll limits.. well, after that it's all about the CB hybrids and CB ALTs.

Personally I was envisioning almost ALL breeds being available through the feature, with the possible exception of hybrids and avatars and the definite exception of the GoN. If only things like holidays and "specials" can be gotten through it, that limits the usefulness of the feature and IMO invites it to be seen as an 'elite machine' whereas the system I proposed makes it more generally useful and less likely to have an outsize impact on the populations/ratios of any rarer species included.

 

With that said, though, I'm not the sort of person who'd get their panties in a bunch of this happened in some totally different way than I proposed. As I said in my original post back on page 15 or 16, my ideas are only one way to do the thing, there are many others. So long as a majority of the community is content I will be content in the long run. I would definitely prefer my own version - that's why I suggested it - but any version of this idea would be an improvement over the current situation IMO.

 

I do think the lack of HMs MIGHT be tied to TJ's perusal of this thread, but that might just be wishful thinkings.

Edited January 15, 2015 by Lurhstaap

[Fiona]

Looking at just the implementation of this idea (and not what is being offered) I rather liked the RP part of what C4 and Mysfytt were suggesting a few pages back. I understand there are those who would prefer to keep it strictly "collect points - redeem points - get egg" and keep the RP part out. That would be ok, but I just personally like the idea of adding the lore we're building. It's more game-like to me and less business-y.

 

So, collect mana via whatever, in 13 varieties. (the 12 elements plus neutral) Maybe you need to use a bit of the neutral mana to "craft" a spell scroll. (paper/parchment being readily available (i.e. you don't have to buy it, it's assumed your character always has some)) Regular parchment for scrolls is not sturdy enough to hold the magic, so we enchant it. This gives us the "recipe" for the particular dragon we want to summon. (x points of neutral mana, y points of A mana, z points of B mana, etc.)

 

We also need to enchant some glass with neutral mana to make a large beaker or the like to hold our neutral mana stabilizer. (glass also being assumed as always available) Once done we just "follow the recipe" and voila! Egg. With appropriate flavor text.

 

So, it's less like just walking into a store and buying a dragon egg, and more like we're doing magic spells to summon either the mother dragon or just the egg from wherever.

[Naruhina_94]

TJ didn't say that HM are retired from DC forever or that the raffle will never let you choose a CB Alt/Hybrid/old Holiday again in the future. I actually think/hope they will return next year, but this don't stop me from wanting to be able to earn one by myself without waiting for some bunch of luck raining from the sky during holidays.

I think he had to relase an huge amount of CB shimmers/tinsel due an increased number of active players and didn't want to make this winner poll even bigger by adding HM.

 

@Fiona

I completly agree with you, but like I already said these RL aspects of the minigame/store would be handled by TJ and the team that usually do the Events and the lore of DC. I don't think we should be able to completely define how the store will works and looks. I would propose the base mechanisms but then "you gain points=you buy dragons, you find mana cristals=you summon dragons" are all details that could be fixed later by those who generally build the background of DC itself.

 

Personally I was envisioning almost ALL breeds being available through the feature, with the possible exception of hybrids and avatars and the definite exception of the GoN. If only things like holidays and "specials" can be gotten through it, that limits the usefulness of the feature and IMO invites it to be seen as an 'elite machine' whereas the system I proposed makes it more generally useful and less likely to have an outsize impact on the populations/ratios of any rarer species included.

 

I think the store should only need to buy those things that aren't available in cave and needs to stay rare and separate from the rest of the dragons because of RL reason (CB Alts,Hybrids are supposed to be available only thought breeding).

The Cave shouldn't be ignored, even if I play the minigame in order to get mana crystal I should still have to hunt in biomes to find a CB whaterhorse, spending my time and efforts and competing with other users, ESPECIALLY if a passive way to earn points will be introduced, or I will basically get free eggs.

Edited January 15, 2015 by Naruhina_94

[Lurhstaap]

I think you may have misread what I was trying to say.. or that maybe I worded it badly.

 

There has to be a reason that they arent in the raffle. It could very well be because he likes one of these suggestions, but it could also be because adding more prizes somehow prevents him from giving out the HMs.

 

If something comes up that would keep him from allowing HMs in the store as something you can just pick, and stock up on, then maybe the only option would be to offer a lottery ticket in the store that would give out HMs. The other options (Prizes and/or cb holidays) would still exist to save up for, but the tickets would be far cheaper and could be purchased as many times as you can afford in each time window, and would ONLY give out the non-holiday HM prizes.

 

 

This idea isnt about changing what this suggestions base function is, its coming up with alternative options within the framework I pitched to still keep them available, even if the ability to pick /specific/ ones doesnt exist. However, I think if this ends up being a route that happens.. seeing as the prizes this year are not tradable, only abandonable.. that same thing (however annoying it may be) would probably be in effect on this too.

Just speaking as a former admin of a similar game, I very much doubt that adding more prizes forced TJ to drop the HMs. There is no balance issue between HMs vs. Prizes so no reason that more prizes ought to automatically mean no HMs. Certainly there is no 'code' reason that should be.

 

The more likely answer, if the lack of HMs is not related to this thread, is that TJ just found doing the HMs too much work to be worth it. Again speaking as a past admin of a similar site, I can only imagine how much time and work it must be to deal with getting all the HM winner's choices dealt with. By comparison sending out the three tiers of Shimmer and Tinsel is easy.

 

Even if that is the case though it wouldn't affect this suggestion because our 'store/summon system' would be automated. TJ's personal time/attention would not be required post-implementation (except if bugs or something crop up or to add new cave releases to the system naturally).

Edited January 15, 2015 by Lurhstaap

[CrystalSetsuna]

adding my opinion of yes to everything. yes please to games where we can earn X amount of points to trade for rare dragons. yes to the ability of just getting 2 cb old holidays this way. yes to the concept of alternative alt sprites(joking or not). yes to being able to get rares this way in general.

 

BECAUSE THEN EVERYONE HAS TO PLAY FAIR!!...and earn them the exact same way. if someone puts in the time to earn the points, they earned the dragon. and you can't complain if you're too lazy to take the time.

[amthystfire]

Just speaking as a former admin of a similar game, I very much doubt that adding more prizes forced TJ to drop the HMs. There is no balance issue between HMs vs. Prizes so no reason that more prizes ought to automatically mean no HMs. Certainly there is no 'code' reason that should be.

 

The more likely answer, if the lack of HMs is not related to this thread, is that TJ just found doing the HMs too much work to be worth it. Again speaking as a past admin of a similar site, I can only imagine how much time and work it must be to deal with getting all the HM winner's choices dealt with. By comparison sending out the three tiers of Shimmer and Tinsel is easy.

 

Even if that is the case though it wouldn't affect this suggestion because our 'store/summon system' would be automated. TJ's personal time/attention would not be required post-implementation (except if bugs or something crop up or to add new cave releases to the system naturally).

^^ this. If say 20% of previous winners chose HM prizes, then that was...12. If 20% choose that this year, that's 120. 120 dragons that each have to be individually coded. Even if it only takes 5 minutes each, and they had to be ready right then when they said they didn't want the prize, that's still 10 hours of work to do all the coding. If it only takes 5 minutes a dragon, and everyone gets them in so he can do them in an orderly fashion. Didn't pay much attention to raffle last year, so I don't know how many HM prizes were handed out on top of the regular prizes, but I imagine it was kind of a pain in the butt.

 

ETA: headed out to a job interview, probably will be unavailable until tomorrow.

Edited January 15, 2015 by amthystfire

[Thuban]

and you can't complain if you're too lazy to take the time.

Thats not a very nice thing to say. Its not a matter of being lazy, some people do not have time to devote to playing mini games or whatever all day every day. My kids can only budget about twenty minutes a day here, if they choose not to play other games (they only get a total of 2 hours of game time tops.. if they take too long doing homework or chores, they lose computer time in the process). I am working on working out some non-mini game options for gaining points, just very highly distracted atm.

 

 

 

As a heads up folks: I might be a bit quiet over the next day or two, so please try not to go too crazy with ideas in here (unless someone wants to volunteer to keep track of it all for me). I had to take my youngest to the ER today, and shes pretty heavily medicated right now (potential Asthma, shes fine, just medicated up)