Trader's Canyon

[Cinnamin Draconna]

Query: Are Neglecteds on the list for HM wins?

[LibbyLishly]

I am one of the people who never log out. But I'm more than willing to make an effort to log out and log in every day, if this is the mechanics we choose for all these great things to happen :3

Same here. A mechanic would make things much easier for me, but I would absolutely log out and log back in again if it gained me points/mana/what have you.

 

@lorimmel - ALL the applause for your post. Very much seconded.

 

I am very uncomfortable with the idea of being able to trade points/mana. I think making that into a currency would do bad things to the DC economy and I don't want to see it happen.

Edited January 14, 2015 by LibbyLishly

[Fuzzbucket]

Query: Are Neglecteds on the list for HM wins?

No, I'm sure they aren't.

[Rally Vincent]

Then why is Teleport allowed? That was why I specifically asked what problems were present in mana trading that ARE NOT present in Teleport.

For one, people could stop playing DC at all. Playing DC of course means playing DC by visiting the cave or the AP to get their eggs. Instead, they'd now play Dragon Mini Game instead of Dragon Cave and trade their mana for stuff.

 

---

 

I might repeat myself, but this suggestion is nothing else than finding a way to play DC without having to actually play the game.

 

So, instead of actually improving the game, they strive to create something besides the game to circumvent the basics of the game. Take basketball as an example: To add a 'new layer', you could

• add lower hanging baskets for players who are too small to play
• Add extra balls that can be thrown from outside of the field so players who are not as fast/determined/whatever as others and thus have less field time can score
• Have teams carry over scores from other games so teams with top players don't have an 'unfair advantage'

Would it allow more people to score? Sure, but not at basketball, only at a game that has some similarities with basketball. You are misleading yourselves if you think you are still playing DC with the introduction of a shop. And is a shop even if you call it mana summon. A shop by another name would sell as much, isn't that the saying?

 

It will dilute the game into insignificence, a game just like any other adoptables game. And the next suggestion how more eggs can be acquired outside of the cave or the AP is just around the corner. Don't let things like this get a foot in the door.

Edited January 14, 2015 by Rally Vincent

[lorimmel]

[...]

 

"I dont have time for this" "I dont play this game to play mini games" "this makes this site just like (another site": (and other similar complaints/objections: Well.. this might be true, however, I am actively trying to find ways to make it so that you dont necessarily have to play the games to get access to those instore eggs. This is why I've been funny about saying "these eggs wont be tradable". If there was a way to earn points through casual, day to day play, then I would be all for it, however, I am worried that something like that specifically would be exploitable, which is exactly what we need to avoid. If simply derping around and breeding 25 dragons (or doing 25 actions in general) gained you 25 points a day, then you would eventually be able to afford the things you might want, without ever having to actually play the games. Sadly though.. those users prone to cheating, would find a way to exploit it, and thats why I've locked it down to HAVING to play the games to earn points.

 

[...]

 

@Rally Vincent: At the moment, eggs ARE available outside of the cave or the AP. It's called "raffle" and GoN "summon". And "mini-games" are an approved element of winter event. Egg basket is an approved element of spring event. Trick or treat is an approved element of halloween event. Are these tiny things really so disturbing? Are they really changing the game so much?

 

The minigame will take some 3 minutes of your time every day. And that's it. There will be nothing to be gained from playing it over and over again, unless you are doing it for fun.

[Rally Vincent]

@Rally Vincent: At the moment, eggs ARE available outside of the cave or the AP. It's called "raffle" and GoN "summon". And "mini-games" are an approved element of winter event. Egg basket is an approved element of spring event. Trick or treat is an approved element of halloween event. Are these tiny things really so disturbing? Are they really changing the game so much?

 

The minigame will take some 3 minutes of your time every day. And that's it. There will be nothing to be gained from playing it over and over again, unless you are doing it for fun.

The only thing I'll accept is the raffle. Trick or treat does not grant real eggs, easter egg hunt also does not give eggs. Both are pastimes for special events, not regular features.

 

Christmas mini games don't count separate from the raffle for me, as those mini games are for getting the raffle tickets.

 

GoN summoning requires you to actually get eggs from the cave. The GoN egg might be from an 'egg creation', but to do that, you have to have played the game first to get Trio sets.

 

That leaves only the raffle as a way to get eggs that cannot be acquired from the cave, and look how well that went, regarding the million complaints about it.

Edited January 14, 2015 by Rally Vincent

[Naruhina_94]

For one, people could stop playing DC at all. Playing DC of course means playing DC by visiting the cave or the AP to get their eggs. Instead, they'd now play Dragon Mini Game instead of Dragon Cave and trade their mana for stuff.

 

---

 

I might repeat myself, but this suggestion is nothing else than finding a way to play DC without having to actually play the game.

 

So, instead of actually improving the game, they strive to create something besides the game to circumvent the basics of the game. Take basketball as an example: To add a 'new layer', you could

add lower hanging baskets for players who are too small to play

Add extra balls that can be thrown from outside of the field so players who are not as fast/determined/whatever as others and thus have less field time can score

Have teams carry over scores from other games so teams with top players don't have an 'unfair advantage'

Would it allow more people to score? Sure, but not at basketball, only at a game that has some similarities with basketball. You are misleading yourselves if you think you are still playing DC with the introduction of a shop. And is a shop even if you call it mana summon. A shop by another name would sell as much, isn't that the saying?

 

It will dilute the game into insignificence, a game just like any other adoptables game. And the next suggestion how more eggs can be acquired outside of the cave or the AP is just around the corner. Don't let things like this get a foot in the door.

I think this could happen ONLY if

1) points will be tradeable

2) you could buy normal golds, silvers, coppers and relased-in-cave dragons in the store.

 

I don't support these 2 things, the shop should be used only to acquire those dragons that needs to stay "separate" from the normal cave.

We shouldn't be able to find CB ALTs and Hybrids in biomes because they are meant to be normally obtained thought breeding, however they have to be generated from the dragons of their kind, so using a simple store is the easiest way to let them spread as rares for everybody who want them.

 

They are an extra, like old holidays and CB prizes, because you can actually have their sprites anyway with breeding. However since the gameplay has changed a lot in these years I think that lineages matters, too. Giving the OPTION to have them as CBs won't focus every user on them because simply not everyone need them as CB.

 

I will be honest, I've started caring about lineages because of a friend of mine, but especially because of THIS forum. I wasn't able to trade anything that hadn't a decent lineage! I started building them and I liked it. I've relased a tons of messy lineages after that. This has changed my gameplay a lot, so yes, lineages are important, but this hasn't stopped me from catching in cave, too.

 

CB normal stuff and pretty lines in AP will still be there to be catch and even if I will be able to purchase a CB Hellhorse it will be useless if I won't have a CB green copper or a CB moonstone to breed it, so I will still need the cave and the AP.

Edited January 14, 2015 by Naruhina_94

[Rally Vincent]

It is my firm belief that other suggestions to get eggs outside the cave/AP will follow if the store is implemented, and one reason will always be: 'But there is already another way to...'. The shop suggestion is DC's Pandora's box.

Edited January 14, 2015 by Rally Vincent

[Jazeki]

It is my firm belief that other suggestions to get eggs outside the cave/AP will follow if the store is implemented, and one reason will always be: 'But there is already another way to...'. The shop suggestion is DC's Pandora's box.

Rally, I think that the raffle is Pandora's Box. It opened the door to permanent site-wide CB exclusives (holidays withstanding). These suggestions are ways to address that problem.

[lorimmel]

It is my firm belief that other suggestions to get eggs outside the cave/AP will follow if the store is implemented, and one reason will always be: 'But there is already another way to...'. The shop suggestion is DC's Pandora's box.

 

If they do follow, I will do my best to shoot them down. And this is my very personal take on the whole situation:

 

DC was a perfect game before the first raffle and first exclusives. I really wish they simply had released all these pretty shiny sprites in the biomes. But they didn't. They made a mistake, and to fix this, we would have to wipe everything that happened in the game after the first raffle.

 

Of course this is not a viable solution, because no one would like to lose everything we have collected in the meantime, all the exciting breeds released in the meantime, all the lineages we have built, etc. etc. That's why we need a tiny, very non-invasive method that will circumvent this first mistake, and many people will be happy about it. After that DC will not need any spontaneous egg creations and the such.

[Naruhina_94]

It is my firm belief that other suggestions to get eggs outside the cave/AP will follow if the store is implemented, and one reason will always be: 'But there is already another way to...'. The shop suggestion is DC's Pandora's box.

We could make it clear since the beginning that this store is ONLY for things that cannot be find with normal methods. Maybe this store shouldn't be available until you reach the gold trophy?

If you reach it that means you're truly loyal to the game, you've actually played a lot and you're still interested in cave hunting because it has become a part of the game itself. I don't think that someone would stop catching eggs all at sudden if this would be implemented.

It should be the description itself: This place won't let you obtain dragon eggs that can be normally found in the Biome' caves. The ancient magic has been focused only into special types of dragons, those who cannot be usually seen by humans in the wilds.

[Walron]

As a CB prize owner I would support this on one condition. Dragons only come to the store after X amount of time. So say we have a holiday. 3 years (random number) later during the breeding period they would become available. This would allow dragons to be exclusive to those who were there but the public could get them to, only after a given period of time. I want everyone to be able to have CB prizes and holidays but lets be honest. If anyone could get them then there'd be no use to the raffle or to trading the offspring of holidays the next year.

[amthystfire]

Rally, I think that the raffle is Pandora's Box. It opened the door to permanent site-wide CB exclusives (holidays withstanding). These suggestions are ways to address that problem.

^^ THIS.

 

I believe there are several mechanisms proposed for this, and there have been a number of restrictions proposed to 'keep them in check,' but across the board the main thing that I've seen is that no one wants this to be mandatory. I have seen a few suggestions of store-only sprites that are shot down almost instantly. There are a limited number of people who want that, and even at that, I could see them being happy with say, in March a sprite is released in store, and in April the sprite is released in cave. (it has a period of exclusivity to the store, but then is put into general circulation) I could even see RP reasons for doing it that way. (people go searching far and wide, but then after a while, there are enough around that they start showing up in the cave as well) and the limitations that are in place should keep it to an optional part of the game (just like teleport)

[LibbyLishly]

As a CB prize owner I would support this on one condition. Dragons only come to the store after X amount of time. So say we have a holiday. 3 years (random number) later during the breeding period they would become available. This would allow dragons to be exclusive to those who were there but the public could get them to, only after a given period of time. I want everyone to be able to have CB prizes and holidays but lets be honest. If anyone could get them then there'd be no use to the raffle or to trading the offspring of holidays the next year.

I respectfully disagree with you. If CB Prizes were available in the store at the same time as they were released through the raffle, if the daily/weekly point caps and cooldowns are implemented, it should still take an extremely long time (6 months to a year, I assume) for the player base at large to get the breed, whereas the raffle winners would have it within a few weeks of the announcement. Furthermore, raffle winners wouldn't have to work for that particular prize - it's a freebie - whereas everyone else would still have to earn their way toward it. Therefore, there would still be a point to the raffle.

 

Furthermore (and again, I say this with respect, not in order to belittle you or your opinion), I highly support having the Prizes in the store because the Prizes have, as has been pointed out by many others, broken the DC economy. I don't want three more years of having to pay top prices for a decent gen of a new breed and having that breed rule the trading market so that you don't have a prayer of trading for what you want if you don't have a short-lineaged Prize - and that's speaking as someone who was fortunate enough to get a 2nd gen Shimmer two years ago and so has had the leverage to trade for whatever she wants.

[Rally Vincent]

Rally, I think that the raffle is Pandora's Box. It opened the door to permanent site-wide CB exclusives (holidays withstanding). These suggestions are ways to address that problem.

I am of different opinion. The raffle lets a few players have their special eggs. The shop will turn eggs-outside-cave from exception to rule. The consequences of a shop will outweigh what is perceived as positive. In addition to new suggestions to get eggs, which will be inevitable, you will also just replace raffle complaints with shop/mini game complaints, like:

 

"I can't log in every day like others, it's so unfair that I cannot gather as much mana as the others."

"I need more CB Alts for my lineage project, why has there to be a limit/points cap."

 

The possibilities for complaints are manyfold, and it will happen. Solving a problem with another problem doesn't seem great in itself to me, and when you add the 'open door for' on it, I have to say: Think carefully what you might summon upon the game with this suggestion.

 

Of course, I may be wrong with all of this. I just think this is at least very plausible. In my opinion, you guys mostly discuss what you see as positive (with truth to an extent, no doubt), but in your euphoria neglect the dangers of this suggestion.

Edited January 14, 2015 by Rally Vincent

[cyradis4]

Rally, I think that the raffle is Pandora's Box. It opened the door to permanent site-wide CB exclusives (holidays withstanding). These suggestions are ways to address that problem.

This. Pandora's Box is the best example I have seen to date.

 

Hmmm.... And I think that new Raffle Prizes do need to be exclusive for 6 months to 2 years. We have to be careful, because too long and we are back to square 1: destroyed trading market. With a tad of management (ie, no extreme common mates or dragons released in the last 12 months), a Prize winner should be able to get any scroll goals in that time.

 

Rally: People still complain about the weather, and as far as something that is not changable by humans goes, that's pretty much the largest. So since people haven't stopped complaining about the weather yet, its fair to assume people will still complain. But this *isn't* to shut up complainers: this is to right the trading market and ease the damage done by CB extreme Exclusives.

 

Cheers!

C4.

Edited January 14, 2015 by cyradis4

[lorimmel]

As a CB prize owner I would support this on one condition. Dragons only come to the store after X amount of time. So say we have a holiday. 3 years (random number) later during the breeding period they would become available. This would allow dragons to be exclusive to those who were there but the public could get them to, only after a given period of time. I want everyone to be able to have CB prizes and holidays but lets be honest. If anyone could get them then there'd be no use to the raffle or to trading the offspring of holidays the next year.

 

I wouldn't mind waiting a year or two. By the way, my prize, CB gold tinsel, has been around for so long that it could go to the shop immediately :3

[Rally Vincent]

If they do follow, I will do my best to shoot them down.

 

[...]

 

After that DC will not need any spontaneous egg creations and the such.

This is what I am doing now. Let me predict that you will be in the minority the next time, and with all respect to the other players: It looks to me that some people are so focused on what can be gained from a suggestion that they don't weigh it against negative consequences.

Edited January 14, 2015 by Rally Vincent

[Naruhina_94]

Maybe this store shouldn't be available until you reach the gold trophy?

If you reach it that means you're truly loyal to the game, you've actually played a lot and you're still interested in cave hunting because it has become a part of the game itself. I don't think that someone would stop catching eggs all at sudden if this would be implemented.

 

I'm not sure about this, I just want to hear your opinions.

[Cinnamin Draconna]

Personally, in the end, I'd like to see this idea REPLACE the Raffle. The Raffle should never have happened to begin with. So I see all these ideas as a way to FIX all the problems the Raffle caused and return DC to an even playing field. Giving a teeny tiny amount of people a special exclusive dragon changed DC from a standard market to a black market. It's like the Mafia took over and we're all paying protection money in hopes that someday we might actually get to have normal trading again.

[Thuban]

Rally: while I do see some of your points, I dont agree with you.

 

This suggestion isnt about turning dc into something new, or giving people exclusive things willy nilly. For some things, you absolutely do NOT have to play the game. The options for standard game play earning the "points" has been brought up (but at this time, has not been written into either of the informational posts relating to my specific suggestion.

 

With MY specific option (as the other suggestions brought up have not been linked in my two posts either yet) ONLY prizes, if they are included and cb holidays would require you to /actually/ visit the store. EVERY other dragon in there would be available via trading with other users who decided to spend points to get those dragons. Those dragons would have to be earned over time, and I am not going to make the mistake of assuming that they would be cheap, at all.

 

The points for my option are not tradable, would never be tradable, and can not be obtained by any method other than either day to day play (normal dc play) OR by playing the games. I dont even want to see vouchers handed out in raffles giving people "points".

 

The things offered on the list WILL take time to earn. There will be no instant gratification, its going to take time. I mean.. shoot.. it is fully possible that TJ could put this thing into effect with an even simpler concept: trade in x points and get a random egg from the entire selection that I have listed as available options. He may decide "no, I dont want people picking specific dragon types, I like the random egg factor". Ok, less fun since you cant pick, but still.. it gives a way for people to earn those dragons that are NOT available to the bulk of the user base outside of the current raffle madness.

 

 

And again: I dont want eggs that can be currently caught in cave, in this thing. I dont want GoNs in the store. I dont want cb metals, in the store. I dont want anything that can be obtained as a cb from any other means in game available in the store. I only want the things I have already listed in multiple places, in store.

 

Walron: I have mentioned that I want to see at least a 2-3 year delay before holidays are added to the store, with a new one added each year. If there is a new prize, it should have a full 2 year delay before being added to the store too.

 

 

[Fiona]

Maybe this store shouldn't be available until you reach the gold trophy? .

Not in favor of this. It goes back to exclusivity. We don't want to block new players from any parts of the game. Nor do we want to tell selective collectors that they're blocked just because their scroll is deliberately kept smaller.

[JavaTigress]

If they do follow, I will do my best to shoot them down. And this is my very personal take on the whole situation:

 

DC was a perfect game before the first raffle and first exclusives. I really wish they simply had released all these pretty shiny sprites in the biomes. But they didn't. They made a mistake, and to fix this, we would have to wipe everything that happened in the game after the first raffle.

 

Of course this is not a viable solution, because no one would like to lose everything we have collected in the meantime, all the exciting breeds released in the meantime, all the lineages we have built, etc. etc. That's why we need a tiny, very non-invasive method that will circumvent this first mistake, and many people will be happy about it. After that DC will not need any spontaneous egg creations and the such.

Besides.

 

As far as 'spontaneous egg creation'... how is the cave itself any less 'spontaneous egg creation'?

 

Now granted, we cannot control WHICH eggs the cave generates... or else golds'd be a LOT less rare. All told, though... we know NOTHING about the background of our CB dragons... so how are they any less 'spontaneous'?

 

Or if you discount the cave, then what about summoning? How is THAT not spontaneous?

IMO, this would be no different than summoning.

 

So long as the currency was NOT purchasable with real money, I wouldn't have a problem.

Edited January 14, 2015 by Silverswift

[Fuzzbucket]

Not in favor of this. It goes back to exclusivity. We don't want to block new players from any parts of the game. Nor do we want to tell selective collectors that they're blocked just because their scroll is deliberately kept smaller.

I very much agree.

[cyradis4]

I personally think that requiring at least a Bronze trophy would be a Good Thing. It should cut down a little on multies, I'd think.

 

Not to put too fine a point on it, but... if you have less than 50 dragons, you aren't really playing the game. You can get that in 5 weeks.

 

Cheers!

C4.

Edited January 14, 2015 by cyradis4