Same Sex Breeding/Adoption

[Dr. Paine]

@Guillotine: Well, yeah, I knew that birds are dinosaurs (I'm actually taking a paleobiology course on Coursera.... not the most perfect thing, but hey, it's learning ), I had never known they could lay viable eggs without male intervention.

Edited January 11, 2014 by Dr. Paine

[Guillotine]

In my defense, I have had people react with disbelief about birds being dinosaurs or have never been exposed to the idea. :v As for the eggs, it very rarely leads to viable eggs, which is probably why you've never heard of it. Like, the eggs laid are fertile, but the embryos tend to die early on or they don't successfully hatch (hence the slash in fertile/viable; embryos develop to a point, but they usually die). There's a turkey strain bred for higher success rates, though (all male because ZW determination system), and zebra finches (source) seem to lay parthenogenetic eggs with relatively high frequency (albeit unviable ones in the study). It's at least theoretically possible for some of the eggs to be viable, though.

 

...Thaaaaat's too many parentheses, I think.

[Aelth]

Please no. This is an adoptable/breeding game, and I prefer to stick with normal biology, which states that viable offspring can only be produced by a pair consisting of one male and one female of the species. We already have cool (pseudo-realistic so far as magic is involved) quirks, like "summoning" Guardians of Nature eggs, and "biting" Vampires. Do we really need to be able to have same-sex dragon lineages as well?

 

Also, I would prefer to keep politics as far out of this game as possible, and I foresee huge blow-ups by conservatives over this issue. Ones which could potentially result in a few members leaving the site or certain members under 18 being banned from being on this site by their conservative parents due to this issue.(No, I'm not exaggerating, though it would be a tiny percentage) I would rather this remained a fun game and that we not have anyone feel the need to leave this site due to politics.

 

And, as people have already stated, you can use the descriptions to quasi-adopt already, and almost any way this idea could be implemented would be easy to abuse.

[Odeen]

Adoption doesn't erase biological inheritance - person A and person B adopting child C do not suddenly supplant people X and Y as the child's biological parents. Lineage view in this game tracks biological heritage, not legal familial association. If an adoption mechanic were ever added, I would imagine it would be an additive function rather than a replacement function, and serve mainly for RP purposes. I would never ever support something that would allow you to summarily overwrite bred lineages for the sake of...whatever this is.

[Syphoneira]

Please no. This is an adoptable/breeding game, and I prefer to stick with normal biology, which states that viable offspring can only be produced by a pair consisting of one male and one female of the species. We already have cool (pseudo-realistic so far as magic is involved) quirks, like "summoning" Guardians of Nature eggs, and "biting" Vampires. Do we really need to be able to have same-sex dragon lineages as well?

 

Also, I would prefer to keep politics as far out of this game as possible, and I foresee huge blow-ups by conservatives over this issue. Ones which could potentially result in a few members leaving the site or certain members under 18 being banned from being on this site by their conservative parents due to this issue.(No, I'm not exaggerating, though it would be a tiny percentage) I would rather this remained a fun game and that we not have anyone feel the need to leave this site due to politics.

 

And, as people have already stated, you can use the descriptions to quasi-adopt already, and almost any way this idea could be implemented would be easy to abuse.

 

 

 

Just to mention, for those who come after, this thread had been necroed after having been dead for over a year and a half, so there probably isn't much point in our worrying that the lineage history of our dragons or their progeny will be altered from what it actually was.

 

People can continue to formalize adoptions in the descriptions of their dragons, same as always, without erasing and rewriting the actual evidence on their 'birth certificates'.

[XF1313]

no one have considered the restriction like,

 

it is only possible for adopting eggs in the abandoned area, and the egg have to be of the same specie with one of the 'parent'.

 

if successful the egg will be 'pulled' from the abandoned area, and on lineage it will say: unclear or adopted.

 

if one dragon and it's partner used this option, they are forever banned from breeding.

 

 

thus it would not produce crazily rare lineage but still fun

 

if there are no rare egg in the abandoned cave, this option cannot be successful anyway.

 

anyone try to take advantage (summon rare egg) of this loss the chance to breed more rare dragons normally.

 

can be quite fair, just good fun for common dragons

[olympe]

Wow, talk about necroing!

 

Anyway, it doesn't seem like a good idea to "summon" any kind of egg from the AP. Because people will try for rares no matter what.

 

Instead, let same-sex parents adopt an egg you already own, no matter how you got it.

[Sashimi]

To me the word "adopt" sounds too viral and planned to be done by animals/mammals/lizards themselves. It's meant for human who adopt children or animals, but animals don't do it like that. In nature, isn't adoption more like an accident of something they just happen to do by instinct?

 

So instead of "adopted by" there should be something else like "parented by". That sounds kinda cute actually

 

Also I want to say, no animal thinks about equality. Not one. They only do it to survive.

 

[Pokemonfan13]

To me the word "adopt" sounds too viral and planned to be done by animals/mammals/lizards themselves. It's meant for human who adopt children or animals, but animals don't do it like that. In nature, isn't adoption more like an accident of something they just happen to do by instinct?

 

So instead of "adopted by" there should be something else like "parented by". That sounds kinda cute actually

 

Also I want to say, no animal thinks about equality. Not one. They only do it to survive.

Dragons are intelligent, not just animals. I'd say they can adopt.

 

 

 

I agree, the adopting should be of an egg you already own, be it one you got from the cave, the AP, or bred yourself. Either that or the pair should go get an egg from "elsewhere", with the mechanics being that they create the egg similar to breeding (but in the story, the dragons went into the wilds and found it). Taking a random egg from the AP just feels wrong.

[BlueMint]

Adoption doesn't erase biological inheritance - person A and person B adopting child C do not suddenly supplant people X and Y as the child's biological parents. Lineage view in this game tracks biological heritage, not legal familial association. If an adoption mechanic were ever added, I would imagine it would be an additive function rather than a replacement function, and serve mainly for RP purposes. I would never ever support something that would allow you to summarily overwrite bred lineages for the sake of...whatever this is.

Agreed!

 

------

 

Umm... No support. This idea is just odd. You can make a dragon "adopt" another dragon without having the adopted dragon be in the other's lineage.

[Banyanpan]

I'd be fine with draconic adoptions, but the idea of erasing the lineage of adoptees peeves me. And I don't personally think adoptions should be limited to same-sex pairs.

 

Maybe there could be a biological lineage and an adoption lineage on the dragon's page? For instance below "View Lineage" there could be "View Adoptive Lineage" and that would show the parents of choice instead of the biological ones.

Or like someone else suggested it could be like biting with Vampires.

 

Although personally I'd just put it in my dragon's description that they're adopted.

[Pokemonfan13]

I think I agree that overwriting an existing lineage for the sake of this isn't right.

 

But if the lineage building aspect is important, that still leaves the ability to adopt CB eggs that the scroll owner found for them, since they have no lineage (although that leaves any pair that involves a CB metal with difficulty). Or create an alternate "breeding" mechanic, where they go find an egg in the wilds to raise, creating a new egg as far as the site mechanics are concerned.

 

Although I suspect either way, the egg should not be able to be abandoned after it's adopted.

 

(the problem with necroing this thread rather than creating a new one, can it be modified? I think the base idea of having a MM/FF pair adopt an egg and make a new lineage for that adopted egg is sweet, and something that should be considered. But there are some details, like overwriting an existing lineage, and plucking eggs from the AP by an action, that seem unfortunate)

[RohenTahir]

I don't support. The game takes place in a medieval setting, and it was no LGBT and almost no adoption (at least not in the form we know it today) in this historical period.

[Obscure_Trash]

I don't support. The game takes place in a medieval setting, and it was no LGBT and almost no adoption (at least not in the form we know it today) in this historical period.

DC takes place in a "loose" Medieval setting... where dragons and teleportation magicks actually exist.

 

It's also an online pixel game.

 

I think this is too complicated to support; I just don't agree with the above reasoning. =|

[olympe]

Not in Europe - and probably not the near/middle East. But how about the far East, or the Americas? Didn't some native Americans tribes not only accept same-sex couples, but also let them adopt orphaned children? What about Africa? Australia? The countless populated islands?

[Fuzzbucket]

I don't support. The game takes place in a medieval setting, and it was no LGBT and almost no adoption (at least not in the form we know it today) in this historical period.

Er - I don't support this suggestion, but that is plain not true. Admittedly in some places it as a crime - but - well, there's no crime to be had if something doesn't exist.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality...medieval_Europe

 

And as for the Greeks and Romans.... there are even two male saints who were married to one another.

 

http://christianity-revealed.com/cr/files/...istianrite.html

 

such same sex marriages were carried out in Ireland in the 12th and 13 centuries too.

Records of Christian same sex unions have been discovered in such diverse archives as those in the Vatican, in St. Petersburg, in Paris, in Istanbul and in the Sinai, covering a thousand-years from the 8th to the 18th century.

[Rosedamai]

I don't support. The game takes place in a medieval setting, and it was no LGBT and almost no adoption (at least not in the form we know it today) in this historical period.

Nope, medieval knights could marry one another. source here

In the period up to roughly the thirteenth century, male bonding ceremonies were performed in churches all over the Mediterranean. These unions were sanctified by priests with many of the same prayers and rituals used to join men and women in marriage.

[Draikinator]

I don't support. The game takes place in a medieval setting, and it was no LGBT and almost no adoption (at least not in the form we know it today) in this historical period.

there were also no dragons, but i guess thats not a problem.

 

anyway honestly i think its silly only male dragons can breed with female dragons and etc. like, science science science, one, theyre dragons, for all we know they have an entirely different reproduction system anyway. two, same sex relationships have been found in a myriad of real life species- and three, a serious portion of dragons on DC are of near or relative human intelligence and as sentient creatures with thoughts and emotions, isnt it conceivable some might not identify with their assigned sex? i mean hey, trans dragons, why not?

 

frankly i dont see why like, if i bred a girl pink with another girl pink instead of just producing an egg there cant be a line of flavour text saying the pair scurried off and found an abandoned egg to raise themselves. operate 100% exactly the same as breeding currently does. just now you can have an all female lineage and dragons are allowed to be gay/trans. if you have a problem with that you're not obligated to breed same sex dragons together. i can think of some really beautiful gay lineages i'd love to work on.

Edited November 4, 2016 by Draikinator

[kitsune93]

I don't really support cause it's easy enough to just write a description saying that two dragons are gay and adopted a baby.

I really don't like the idea of erasing abandoned egg's lineages and replacing them with the adopted dragons.

If it were added, I'd want it to work like the "bitten by" vamps have.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

If people want this it can be done via written description. Lineage is lineage; you don't use your own medical history for your adopted kid's care no matter that you loved and raised him, you give the true parental medical records because they're what's relevant. This would be a more intensive form of lineage altering than deadlining and I don't support it.

 

@Draik: there is at least one dragon that can breed with either gender initially in the works, but that's certainly not the case for the current dragons and it shouldn't be switched around now. Also even if a male hellfire felt like a girl it wouldn't suddenly turn bigger and blue scaled, so...

 

I just don't see the point when there are so many dozens more useful suggestions (heal BSA, raised Christmas/Valentine limits, better scroll organizing methods like tabs, more accurate beeeding cooldown, a store, etc etc) that have been unadded for years T__T

Edited November 4, 2016 by angelicdragonpuppy

[skwerl56767]

Nope, nope, and nope. Do we really need any sort of adopt system, regardless of which two dragons (or their genders) would be adopting the egg/hatchling? Even so, why wouldn't heterosexual dragon partners be able to adopt; why only the homosexual ones? Seems weird...

It's perfectly acceptable to ignore the actual origins of a dragon and write up some lore that says "this dragon was adopted by <Dragon X> and <Dragon Y>"; some people actually ignore everything and go straight for the lore! Functionality-wise, an adopt system would be no different than the AP we have now; eggs are constantly in it, either purposefully abandoned or kicked out by two bred dragons when the scroll owner was egglocked, and anyone can grab whatever is wanted out of it, whenever it is wanted. There's really no need to put in an adopt system, and - as pointed out near the beginning of the thread - summoning eggs out of nothing for the purpose of "breeding" two dragons who decide to adopt is a big no-no. If you want another egg, go grab one!

 

Final note, TJ did say this: " In addition, I try to keep DC as free from political and sociocultural issues as possible (I have made very few exceptions in the past seven years); people play games to escape from the problems of reality, not be bombarded by them."

Since homosexuality is a controversial issue (there are two sides who fight for different positions on the matter rather passionately), I think adding anything that suggests it would result in tons of people leaving, causing a large drop in the active playerbase, which is the last thing a lot of us want right now. To me the end result would be no different than if TJ modified the home page to show a political support banner; people would leave, the site would gain a reputation of bias, and things would just go haywire from there. :c

 

PRE-POST EDIT: I agree with ADP as well; if this made it onto TJ's to-do list anyway, I wouldn't see it as a very high priority. There are so many other cool things (or necessary things!) that could be implemented first; this would be more like a fun mechanic that we receive later on down the road.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

I actually have a few dragons described as being adopted simply because I misbred the parents and didn't want it to seem they'd cheated on their mates, haha. Oh the things we do for dragons!

 

At any rate I see no need to add an adopt feature as, again, it serves no real in cave purpose and could be done just as easily through description if it matters that much. That's why I don't think trying to sneak in adoption as justification for a same sex breeding pair makes sense either. Again, adopting someone does not make their pedigree include you. Their biological parents are their biological parents and that's that. Again, imagine presenting a doctor with your medical history for an adopted kid. Doctor doesn't care about the adoptive family tree, great though it is; it's the real one that matters.

 

Now if hermaphroditic dragons are made that can breed with either gender--or even a dragon that can flip gender like some fish can--that'd be a different thing entirely.

[Obscure_Trash]

I don't really support cause it's easy enough to just write a description saying that two dragons are gay and adopted a baby.

I really don't like the idea of erasing abandoned egg's lineages and replacing them with the adopted dragons.

If it were added, I'd want it to work like the "bitten by" vamps have.

This is a neat and simple way to deal with this. I kind of like it, really.

 

Not an immediate worry, but if this were quick to do, it sounds kinda fun.

 

Some people being bigots should not mean that my very existence is """controversial""" and cannot be mentioned. *sigh*

Edited November 4, 2016 by SockPuppet Strangler

[SkyWolf25]

Yeah.. I'm with the no support group. Adoptions can easily be mentioned in descriptions, and I don't want the lineages to get altered/complicated/etc. And it's true that LGBT is a controversial issue, so making it an official site feature would bring some chaos in the community.

[PixelShark]

No support. Too many triggered people would be affected by this also. Speaking from science here, an animal's sole purpose in life is to: eat, breed, and sleep. Animals that act "gay" often have what is known as "misguided breeding" stemming from different causes, such as strong desire to reproduce, general sexual confusion, etc. And yeah, I know. These are dragons. They're smarter than regular animals, they have magic and in some cases can speak and blah, blah, blah. It doesn't make me want to support this. Sorry. Everyone else who doesn't support this also has extremely valid points. And there are a LOT of people here who agree on not supporting this. And I honestly do not want sexuality brought into Dragon Cave. There is SO much more potential to this game/site than that. Don't bring that into this.

 

There was even chatter earlier over the controversial topic, going into medieval times and it eventually got taken away from the topic of dragons entirely. Please. Just stop. Let's stay on topic, or get back onto it. Or just stop this entirely. I dunno. Do what you will with your train, but I think I'll wait for the next one!