Same Sex Breeding/Adoption

[angelicdragonpuppy]

I'm just going to reiterate my previous statement of the point:

 

Pedigree is a biological record, not an adoption record.

 

If a new "adoption lineage" for same sex adoption was added, it would only make sense to add heterosexual adoption mechanisms too.

 

And if you get to that point, it seems an awful lot of work to add a whole new "adoption lineage" when people already can, and have, stated adoption via written descriptions.

 

I just don't think it's worth it. What would a new adoption lineage add to the game? Couldn't dragons that already have a lineage theoretically be adopted, creating double lineaged dragons? It's just a big can of worms with more problems than uses to me.

 

Now, if some BSA emerged that would let dragons flip sprites (so you could, say, breed a radiant angel to a red female hellfire) that would be something else--but the whole adoption angle currently suggested is a mess.

Edited November 5, 2016 by angelicdragonpuppy

[Amaterasu-sama]

Sorry, no support from me on this. :/ I am all for lgbt rights in real life but as far as this idea goes, it's plain boring, unnecessary and something that would just make the game kinda weird.

[yamashta]

The way I see it, no one is holding anybody back from roleplaying same-sex dragon adoptions, or editing it into their descriptions who they're 'partnered' with/who their adopted pups are, etc. That should be good enough, given the whole dragons/breeding thing literally just... is what it is. The parents don't care for the eggs, it's the players who do and see to it that they hatch. Without the players the eggs die.

 

I feel like this whole issue ( pardon me for being rude/uncaring seeming to anybody whom it may offend ) is a case of human identity disorder-related nonsense fueled by peoples' instability and need to find some form of 'self' in whatever forms they can find it, be it in video games, movies, television, books, fanfiction/art, etc.

 

I call it nonsense because there are far better things to be focusing on- not just unrelated, but things that are happening in the world world and relating to same-sex coupling and rearing, as well as sex and gender identity related issues.

 

It isn't a pleasant thing to hear or be told, yes, but take into consideration the big picture.

 

This is a game. A click site for pixellated mythological creatures to reproduce. It's... Dragon Atsume, practically. PokeDra ( Pocket Dragons ), whatever. Collect em' all, breed em', trade em', etc. etc.

 

Human gender identity, sexuality and morals/logic/reason/etc. are a very heavy and complex subject that would unneededly complicate a fun and simple game meant for time-passing brain-engagement. Children play this, not just teens and adults, and while it's good for them to be taught of these things, that should be left up to their parents to decide for them and not people on the internet.

 

That's all I have to say. My views come from objective observation as well as personal experience in the LGBTA+ community, ( which unfortunately I feel ashamed to admitting-- I don't even partake or intentionally interact with others within the community for reasons like this- ignorant and/or misinformed/uninformed people with good intentions royally screwing things up for others because they lack the information, intellect, maturity and/or a variety of other things. It's also why I dislike coming onto the forums. I see a lot of loud trans/gender variant declarations and it exhausts me. ) someone who has first hand and again, I stress the word objectively because so few are able to do it, observed the rapidly rising number of social justice 'practitioners' and self diagnosed gender-variant individuals and can't help but quirk a brow at it.

 

The reason why I went into all of this is because I get tired of repeatedly having to explain and validate myself. I know what I'm talking about, and being told I don't and that I'm phobic when I myself am part of the very community I criticize- it gets old very quickly and simply further proves my point.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

Ok sorry to re-reiterate my position it's 5 AM and I shouldn't be trying to word but here we go

 

Is the point of this suggestion to show adoptive family relations? If so this can be done by description.

 

Is the point of this suggestion to allow for pairings we can't currently do, like male hellfire x radiant angel? If so this can be done by some form of future BSA / potion (if a store happens) that lets a dragon take on the appearance of the other gender's sprite.

 

Basically I think the craziness unfolding here is because people are trying to turn adoption into a new pedigree, which just opens up all sorts of problems (could a lineaged egg be adopted and have two lineages? Wouldn't straight couples be able to adopt too? And what's the point of any of it when a written description would suffice just as well, or a sprite flip BSA that could use normal lineage view?). There are simpler solutions to both things this suggestion is trying to do.

Edited November 5, 2016 by angelicdragonpuppy

[Bison]

This is a cute idea and it obviously wasn't meant to be bad/rude/etc in any way, but its honestly extremely offensive to equate adoption with the complete erasure of heritage. I realize that these are just dragons people are talking about but that's an extremely harmful viewpoint to have. It hurts birthparents and adopted people, whether or not you're talking about pixel pets or people.

 

People adopted and raised by other races/in other cultures face trouble with being accepted/seen as being "allowed" to learn about or participate in their own heritage and culture (sometimes both their culture by birth and their culture by upbringing). Older adopted people and those from shady adoptions can literally not be allowed to have their real information, like their heritage, health risks, etc. These are huge issues, even if they're not widely known/publicized, so I really think anything along the lines of deleting lineages so dragons can adopt eggs is a very poor idea for DC. Not to mention how cruel it is to be basically saying to all birthparents that they don't matter in the slightest and are completely erased when adoption occurs.

 

(Obviously some birthparents and adopted people prefer the viewpoint of "erasure" but to assume that's just how things are 100% of the time and its what adoption is/what everyone in the situation always wants is offensive and harmful.)

 

 

I think a way for dragons, same sex or not, to "adopt" CB eggs/random "wild" eggs/etc would be really cute. The suggestion of specific breed(s) with BSAs or breed functions that work this way is the best way to go about it imo. That would be a really cute and unique mechanic for a new dragon to have without changing existing lore or being cruel.

[Fuzzbucket]

This is a cute idea and it obviously wasn't meant to be bad/rude/etc in any way, but its honestly extremely offensive to equate adoption with the complete erasure of heritage. I realize that these are just dragons people are talking about but that's an extremely harmful viewpoint to have. It hurts birthparents and adopted people, whether or not you're talking about pixel pets or people.

I'm sorry - but BIOLOGICAL heritage cannot be erased or changed by adoption. And biological heritage is what breeding gives. The heritage shown in a lineage is birth heritage -just as most adopted people I know refer to their mother and their BIRTH mother - they know that their actual mother - the woman who raised them - is not their birth mother and they are not BIOLOGICALLY related to her.

 

I think this is one of those perceived hurts that should REALLY not be raised as an issue. Appalling things happen in the adoption process, and some adopted kids are indeed denied their biological (=racial/cultural) heritage, abnd that is a mssice and complec can of worms - but that isn't the same as trying to erase the fact that they were born to someone who didn't raise them.

[Bison]

I'm sorry - but BIOLOGICAL heritage cannot be erased or changed by adoption. And biological heritage is what breeding gives. The heritage shown in a lineage is birth heritage -just as most adopted people I know refer to their mother and their BIRTH mother - they know that their actual mother - the woman who raised them - is not their birth mother and they are not BIOLOGICALLY related to her.

 

I think this is one of those perceived hurts that should REALLY not be raised as an issue. Appalling things happen in the adoption process, and some adopted kids are indeed denied their biological (=racial/cultural) heritage, abnd that is a mssice and complec can of worms - but that isn't the same as trying to erase the fact that they were born to someone who didn't raise them.

I'm sorry but what exactly are you trying to argue?

 

People have brought up issues with this from an LGBT standpoint and how people may target others, fights could happen on the forums, etc. That's a legitimate concern and something to consider. The issues surrounding actual adoption could cause problems too and that's just as important, if not more so in an adoption suggestion, to consider.

 

 

Edit: Reworded some, sorry. Reading it back it came off a bit angrier than I actually meant it to be. Hopefully its clearer now.

Edited November 5, 2016 by shortaxel

[High Lord November]

To add my two cents, you are the egg adopter and raiser. It doesn't make sense to have dragons randomly adopt eggs as a gameplay mechanic. That's more in the realm of role-playing. You can add it to your description of the dragons if you'd like, and arrange it on your scroll as such, but lineages are pretty specific to biological family tree.

[hazeh]

Coming from someone with lesbian moms and is also gay, I really don't see the issue with how we have the game currently. We're raising dragons who have specific pedigrees. While I think it would be a cute and interesting mechanic, so far none of the suggestions have sounded like a plausible feature, except for the new breeds that can alter themselves via bsa to change sex for a period of time.

 

I mean. If this was a game about human families and whatnot. I'd agree. But this is about dragons, not humans, and the anthropomorphizing should stay within the rp elements of descriptions.

[Suzumiya]

I read some of these posts, including the first one, and I like the idea of the original lineage remaining, but the adoption lineage appearing as well. So a super messy inbred Mint could have it's messy lineage, but could also have it's adopted lineage of, say, two CB Gold parents. It wouldn't be anything special, but it would show that those two (fe)male Golds wanted to adopt an unfortunate baby that otherwise wouldn't have been adopted/would have been frozen. You could say that it would result in more 2G Prizes and lower their worth, but...they would still have the original lineage on the page, too, so they wouldn't be true 2G Prizes. I would love it if my dragons could adopt AP eggs.

 

It doesn't even have to be same-sex adoption. It could be a pair of dragons that refused each other breeding, but might have a change of heart later on and adopt together. It wouldn't lead to your pretty lineage you wanted, but it would still allow those two dragons you really wanted to be parents to, well, actually BE parents, even to a hatchie of a different breed.

[Fuzzbucket]

I'm sorry but what exactly are you trying to argue?

 

People have brought up issues with this from an LGBT standpoint and how people may target others, fights could happen on the forums, etc. That's a legitimate concern and something to consider. The issues surrounding actual adoption could cause problems too and that's just as important, if not more so in an adoption suggestion, to consider.

 

 

Edit: Reworded some, sorry. Reading it back it came off a bit angrier than I actually meant it to be. Hopefully its clearer now.

That the idea that the adopting of dragon eggs by two same sex dragons cannot be a thing if it alters lineages in any way. That adopting - a marvellous thing when done well - is NOT the same as biological heritage,. no matter what. That if people here want to have two male or female dragons adopt an egg (or indeed a paper and a chicken ) - that needs to be done in the description.

 

That the idea that saying this is something that should hurt people who have been adopted (or indeed who are LGBTQ IRL) is taking pixels several steps too far. And I speak as a major fag hag in my youth, one who covered for several gay men in the UK at a time when loving another guy put you in jail. Anti anything is TOTALLY not me.

 

Also what Shiny Hazard Sign said.

Edited November 5, 2016 by fuzzbucket

[Nightwalkerkey]

The way I see it, no one is holding anybody back from roleplaying same-sex dragon adoptions, or editing it into their descriptions who they're 'partnered' with/who their adopted pups are, etc. That should be good enough, given the whole dragons/breeding thing literally just... is what it is. The parents don't care for the eggs, it's the players who do and see to it that they hatch. Without the players the eggs die.

 

I feel like this whole issue ( pardon me for being rude/uncaring seeming to anybody whom it may offend ) is a case of human identity disorder-related nonsense fueled by peoples' instability and need to find some form of 'self' in whatever forms they can find it, be it in video games, movies, television, books, fanfiction/art, etc.

 

I call it nonsense because there are far better things to be focusing on- not just unrelated, but things that are happening in the world world and relating to same-sex coupling and rearing, as well as sex and gender identity related issues.

 

It isn't a pleasant thing to hear or be told, yes, but take into consideration the big picture.

 

This is a game. A click site for pixellated mythological creatures to reproduce. It's... Dragon Atsume, practically. PokeDra ( Pocket Dragons ), whatever. Collect em' all, breed em', trade em', etc. etc.

 

Human gender identity, sexuality and morals/logic/reason/etc. are a very heavy and complex subject that would unneededly complicate a fun and simple game meant for time-passing brain-engagement. Children play this, not just teens and adults, and while it's good for them to be taught of these things, that should be left up to their parents to decide for them and not people on the internet.

 

That's all I have to say.  My views come from objective observation as well as personal experience in the LGBTA+ community, ( which unfortunately I feel ashamed to admitting-- I don't even partake or intentionally interact with others within the community for reasons like this- ignorant and/or misinformed/uninformed people with good intentions royally screwing things up for others because they lack the information, intellect, maturity and/or a variety of other things. It's also why I dislike coming onto the forums. I see a lot of loud trans/gender variant declarations and it exhausts me. ) someone who has first hand and again, I stress the word objectively because so few are able to do it, observed the rapidly rising number of social justice 'practitioners' and self diagnosed gender-variant individuals and can't help but quirk a brow at it.

 

The reason why I went into all of this is because I get tired of repeatedly having to explain and validate myself. I know what I'm talking about, and being told I don't and that I'm phobic when I myself am part of the very community I criticize- it gets old very quickly and simply further proves my point.

Agreed with all of this.

 

 

I still don't think this is still valid compared to the other suggestions we have that would actually be helpful in game- this a sort of meant-to-be-cute thing just seems so unnecessary.

 

I agree with TJ's quote in here somewhere (dunno how to double quote one post, without double posting), that all of this would be adding exactly what most if not all of the playerbase comes here to avoid- politics and correctness and so forth.

Edited November 5, 2016 by Nightwalkerkey

[Crystalluna]

I agree with TJ's quote in here somewhere (dunno how to double quote one post, without double posting), that all of this would be adding exactly what most if not all of the playerbase comes here to avoid- politics and correctness and so forth.

There's nothing 'political' about normalising LGBT relationships - it's just basic human respect.

I do agree that these mechanics are completely uneeded, but not for that reason.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

There's nothing 'political' about normalising LGBT relationships - it's just basic human respect.

I do agree that these mechanics are completely uneeded, but not for that reason.

However you feel about it, it IS a political issue in many countries.

[Obscure_Trash]

Alright, I think this thread has really become too focused on our own lives rather than the gameplay mechanics. For that reason, I'm going to go ahead and close this thread.

 

In the future, a new thread could be made for a fresh start, but if anybody is interested in that, please give it some time so we can all cool off.