Same Sex Breeding/Adoption

[VixenDra]

The only potential I saw in this was to make pure blood families out of the Christmas and Valentine breeds...

and the unbreedables too, probably? with GoNs it's worse because I'm still missing 2/5(and won't have any unless the GoN limit is rised to 5 or more)

I do have the GoNs connected via descriptions but actually I'm not satisfied because hardly any visitor of my scroll or even my GoN pages know their descriptions (that's why I'd rather see at least sth like the Vamps have - but not about summoning)

 

but since the lineage altering is so strongly voted agaist(), and I can't grab enough CBs (limit 2, I'd need 5 and connect 2 adults with 3 frozens) to use it if the adoptive lineage was only for CBs the only thing I got eager about is the very thing I see wouldn't be possible - connecting in the lineage...

I actually wanted to make the gay 'families' for single-gendered holidays, but I couldn't due to the CB limits of 2 instead of at least 5 and lineaged have strong evidence against being related so it's not an option(CBs are lineage free so you can 'lie' who their parents 'are')...

 

actually, to eliminate people's anxiety against people altering messy lineages into 2g in case of adoption, the result of the adoption could be both unbreedable and untradeable and voila, problem eliminated as the 'falsely lineaged' won't have ANY trading value for being simply completely untradeable and would serve nothing but the maker's own joy. Simple but effective.

 

 

 

As for biology, DC already has impossible things in breeding:

*GoNs work unrealistically with their inability to breed true while ability to breed with any other species, such a species would quickly die out (Summoning isn't an evuivalent of breeding after all, they must have been able to breed true before getting summoned:/ why would anyone loose ability to PB while being able to interbreed with other breeds?)

*Hybrids are fertile

*different subtypes of dragons (e.g. wyrm x western) breed successfully together and are not even hybrids

*inheritage of the breeds (nothing is lost nor altered in interspecies offspring)

*Hybrids can be made by pure breeding (Geodes)

*the mere existence of the single gendered breeds; they are being backed by the very few lower animals that are female-only BUT there's still not a single sample of a male-only animal species...

 

So I can't see anything against magical homosexual breeding joining this list, at least for the single-sex and genderless breeds.

 

Maybe there could be sth similar to parentogenesis instead? or better, hermaphroditic breeding of snails?

With this the lore for the single gendered dragons would be that they are phenotypically males or females (and able to breed with the opposite sex only in case of other breeds) but inside they are hermaphrodites (produce the opposite sexe's gametes but don't gave external organs of the opposite breed) able to reproduce with other same-sex individuals of their own breed(or type: single-gendered holidays)

 

 

 

As for political or moral correctness, to me it's extremally incorrect that polygamic breeding is possible and widely spread in DC while DC dragons are supposed to be sentient - polygamy(and so on) is illegal and banned in more countries than homsexuality is... yet nobody protests...

if you hate or don't want homosexuality as I hate and don't want polygamy(and such) you simply never breed your own dragons homosexually just as I don't breed mine non-monogamously, if I can bear my dragon's polygamic parentage(I mean parents are on sb else's scroll) you'd be able to bear your dragon's bisexual polygamic parentage too(becuase I bet that then you woulndn't keep any dragon that has a homosexual lineage itself and just like me, you'd only have your dragon's parents' progenies bothering you - or not)

If I can deal with what we have, you can possibly deal with other people breeding homosexually, we're not forced to use these options ourselves.

 

 

Edited November 4, 2016 by VixenDra

[cyradis4]

Honestly? Activism and LGBT rights are all very important....

 

But the lineage page is the *biological* history of a dragon. It shows you the blood connections. And I think that the breeding needs to stay that way, unless a dragon concept is written specifically that *does* allow them to do this.

 

So no support.

 

And with the changes to User Descriptions.... I feel that anything else is unnecessary to denote adoptions.

 

Cheers!

C4.

[olympe]

I think that adoption for same-sex couples should work like breeding, actually. Breeding already exists, so there's no argument against shifts in the ratios. At least no more than the ratios are already affected by breeding. Of course, only dragons who are not on breeding cooldown should be able to adopt for this very reason.

 

In order to spare other people someone's "evil adopted eggs", the rules could be adapted to be stricter for those: No abandoning of any adopted dragon (but teleporting to exchange them), no "adopting" when the egg would have to be auto'ed.

[cyradis4]

I think that adoption for same-sex couples should work like breeding, actually. Breeding already exists, so there's no argument against shifts in the ratios. At least no more than the ratios are already affected by breeding. Of course, only dragons who are not on breeding cooldown should be able to adopt for this very reason.

 

In order to spare other people someone's "evil adopted eggs", the rules could be adapted to be stricter for those: No abandoning of any adopted dragon (but teleporting to exchange them), no "adopting" when the egg would have to be auto'ed.

How do you get around the *physical* impossibilities of a male breeding with a male to produce an egg? Those dragons kinda are missing certain physical requirements to *produce* an egg.

 

So how do they do it? And saying "maaaaaagic" doesn't cut it.

 

Oh, you could probably do a potion, or maybe have a dragon with a BSA who um. "This mischievous dragon uses its powerful transformation spell, and temporarily turns this male into a biological female, allowing it to reproduce with other males". So the dragon has the male sprite, and will return to being a male, but has the female equipment when it actually breeds. Of course that opens a whole nother can of worms, but at least its *plausible*.

 

But outside of something like that, I am dead against artificial "male to male" or "female to female" breeding.... because biological male x biological male do NOT have the necessary biological equipment to get the job done. And "its magic" doesn't cut it.

 

Cheers!

C4.

[Sashimi]

Dragons are intelligent, not just animals. I'd say they can adopt.

They are intelligent, yes, but still more like animals than humans. At least I like to think it that way, to me a dragon isn't some miracleous magical being that can do anything and knows everything. Maybe elsewhere, but not on this site (as far as the descriptions go) and I really like it this way.

 

// I have nothing against same-sex pairing, I think that would be awesome, but the word adoption just cracks my ear.

 

[hellhunt]

How do you get around the *physical* impossibilities of a male breeding with a male to produce an egg? Those dragons kinda are missing certain physical requirements to *produce* an egg.

 

So how do they do it? And saying "maaaaaagic" doesn't cut it.

 

Oh, you could probably do a potion, or maybe have a dragon with a BSA who um. "This mischievous dragon uses its powerful transformation spell, and temporarily turns this male into a biological female, allowing it to reproduce with other males". So the dragon has the male sprite, and will return to being a male, but has the female equipment when it actually breeds. Of course that opens a whole nother can of worms, but at least its *plausible*.

 

But outside of something like that, I am dead against artificial "male to male" or "female to female" breeding.... because biological male x biological male do NOT have the necessary biological equipment to get the job done. And "its magic" doesn't cut it.

 

Cheers!

C4.

Let me agree to this...

 

[KitNLi]

Also against here.

 

As stated by others physical breeding between two same sex pairings cant happen. And as far as adoption goes, Just because a child is adopted it doesn't erase their own lineage, it wont change what race or ethnicity they are. Same thing for the eggs, they will still have their own lineage, they will still be the breed they were laid at.

 

There is no reason to create a convoluted BSA for something you could simply make notes in the dragons personal descriptions, or use in your own RP areas.

[bob_jones]

I frankly hate this idea. I don't like the idea that an egg I breed and abandon could just have its lineage erased, as if I didn't do any work to breed that egg.

 

However, I completely disagree with the people who argue against this idea because it's a ~~~~political issue~~~~, or because no sexuality allowed in DC. I mean...we already are able to "breed two dragons together to produce an egg". All of us do that pretty much every day. That's FAR more sexual than having two dragons of the same sex "adopt" an egg would be. There are no more sexual connotations to same-sex adoption than there are to breeding two dragons to produce an egg, unless you have a twisted mind that sexualizes everything. (And sometimes "breeding" doesn't even produce an egg, which basically means the two dragons just had sex for no reason. Dirty.)

 

I don't necessarily think the political connotations of same-sex adoption would drive away thousands of users and bring the site to its knees and result in doom and gloom, either. If someone has objects to same-sex adoption, they just don't have to do it. Just like if someone has religious (or irreligious?) objections to Christmas or Halloween, they don't have to participate in that.

 

JSYK, despite the two paragraphs I just typed up defending the suggestion, I still think it's a bad idea only because it would erase lineages. I'm against it. Just not for political reasons.

Edited November 4, 2016 by bob_jones

[angelicdragonpuppy]

I think that adoption for same-sex couples should work like breeding, actually. Breeding already exists, so there's no argument against shifts in the ratios. At least no more than the ratios are already affected by breeding. Of course, only dragons who are not on breeding cooldown should be able to adopt for this very reason.

 

In order to spare other people someone's "evil adopted eggs", the rules could be adapted to be stricter for those: No abandoning of any adopted dragon (but teleporting to exchange them), no "adopting" when the egg would have to be auto'ed.

But if there was an "adopted" "lineage" for same sex dragons it would only make sense to have it for straight dragons too...

 

It's just not worth it IMO. Especially when lineage is lineage, and that DOESN'T change with adoption. Two dragons adopting an egg doesn't make them it's parents and running a separate adopted "lineage" system would just be silly.

[olympe]

What you need to consider is that, right now, there are at least two very different mechanisms suggested for this. One is "take an egg of any parentage and make it the adopted child of two dragons". In this case, adding a 2nd, "adopted" lineage is probably the way to go.

 

The other is to use something that, speaking from a game-mechanics point of view, is same-sex breeding. However, what "really" happens is that the dragons in question go and find any kind of egg somewhere which is of totally unknown parentage, and adopt it as their child. (=> normal lineage showing the adopted parents as actual parents, since the parentage of the egg is totally unknown.) There is no actual "physical breeding" involved, nor are their any "biological impossibilities" to overcome nor any existing lineages to erase. Neat and simple.

[cyradis4]

What you need to consider is that, right now, there are at least two very different mechanisms suggested for this. One is "take an egg of any parentage and make it the adopted child of two dragons". In this case, adding a 2nd, "adopted" lineage is probably the way to go.

 

The other is to use something that, speaking from a game-mechanics point of view, is same-sex breeding. However, what "really" happens is that the dragons in question go and find any kind of egg somewhere which is of totally unknown parentage, and adopt it as their child. (=> normal lineage showing the adopted parents as actual parents, since the parentage of the egg is totally unknown.) There is no actual "physical breeding" involved, nor are their any "biological impossibilities" to overcome nor any existing lineages to erase. Neat and simple.

... The lineage of an egg is its known biological ancestry. Its not about "who raised the egg", its about where its genes came from.

 

An adopted egg does NOT have the genes of the dragon that raised it. CB eggs are "cave born" because they were laid by wild dragons.... and we do not know what their lineage is. They have one.... we just have no way of knowing *what* it is.

 

This suggestion is like saying that tiger cub, raised by a dog, is really a dog because it was nursed by a dog! The tiger cub is still a tiger, it was birthed by a tiger and sired by a tiger and in DC terms, it's lineage would be all tigers.... despite the fact that the being it knows as "mom" is a dog.

 

So no support. You are still doing a physical impossibility.

 

Cheers!

C4.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

Agreed with Cyradis. Any adoptive lineage would be an adoptive lineage, not a replacement for a real pedigree. And that's done easily enough with descriptions.

 

Now perhaps some sort of BSA could be added that lets a dragon transform into the sprite used for the other sex, while still keeping its real sex, allowing for some of those pairings we long for but can't do right now. But that's still a radically different suggestion from adding some weird secondary adoption family tree.

Edited November 4, 2016 by angelicdragonpuppy

[RealWilliamShakespeare]

I've just come into this and haven't read too much into it but I'm gonna go ahead and say no support. Goodness knows I'm 100% for LGBT rights and representation, and I recognise that cases such as this do sometimes happen in nature. I know that occasionally if they stumble across a freezing abandoned egg, male penguin couples do sometimes adopt the egg and raise the baby on its own. But this suggestion immediately made me think of a happily married dragon couple walking into a foster home and filling out some adoption forms for their new egg. The process behind natural gay adoption isn't really a selective, chosen process - more like if the animal sees a dying baby instincts tell it to raise it as its own.

 

Besides, it's the humans in DC who "own" the dragons - I don't see any need for the gay dragons to essentially "adopt" an egg just for it to end up in your possession anyway.

[silver_tiger]

This seems more like it should be a purely RP thing. I am a part of the LGBTQ family/rainbow, but this is a breeding game. However much I support gay rights and marriage and all of that, two cis people of the same gender will never make a baby. I'm not even going to get into relationships that aren't cis, because that's way more complicated than a simple little breeding game needs to be.

 

I feel like if people want to have their dragons adopted into certain households within their scroll, that's what the descriptions are for. It sounds like a fun exercise to write up a little biography about your dragons and what family units they belong to, but at the end of the day the lineage dictates what family they were born into.

 

That isn't to say that adoption is worthless; I have many people in my family who aren't technically related to me due to adoption, and they're still family. But that does mean they have a different genealogy than me, when you get down to the nitty gritty and technical side of things.

 

Tl;dr, no support.

[SkyWolf25]

Yes to all the people above. Don't get me wrong when I said that it may cause controversy earlier- I'm not against LGBT. I'm really not. But male x female breeding isn't on dragon cave because it's 'sexually right' or anything like that- it's there because it's biologically possible, while male x male breeding/etc. is not. And the lineages show that biological line of family. I think that should stay as the sole point of lineages - a Golden Wyvern adopted by 3G purebred Reds is not a 4G PB Red, after all.

[Crystalluna]

I don't support being able to change a dragon's lineage by having it adopted. Being bisexual myself, of course I want LGBT+ representation to be normalised, but something like this seems unnecessary and too much of a change to the game mechanics. A dragon's sexuality & relationships can be talked about in the description.

Edited November 5, 2016 by Crystals

[Draikinator]

@Draik: there is at least one dragon that can breed with either gender initially in the works, but that's certainly not the case for the current dragons and it shouldn't be switched around now. Also even if a male hellfire felt like a girl it wouldn't suddenly turn bigger and blue scaled, so...

That is... a truly offensive and callous thing to say; one, its very dismissive, two, what proof do you have that a creature capable of expelling FIRE from its BODY isnt capable of changing that colour?? like, I can do that. three, you realize theres female lions with manes, right? Its not even all that simple, and four, do you think transgender people suddenly.... change bodies???

 

look i dont want to get into a fight over, of all things, gay dragons but please put a little thought into what you say before you say it.

 

and i really hope that dragon isnt going to use the word "hermaphrodite."

 

like, i dont get this argument that only male and female dragons can breed as if they already dont have highly specialized organs that produce flame or stars or turn INCORPOREAL of all pseudoscience concepts- bees have three sexes, is it really so inconceivable that a fantasy race might not face the same problems

 

again, i think this problem would one hundred percent be solved by.... not making same sex dragons have the baby. just where it says "the two dragons mate to produce an egg" have it say something along the lines of "the two dragons find an abandoned egg to care for." no mechanics change, just one extra line of dialogue and bam; the game is now lgbt friendly and people not comfortable with that are literally not required to breed same sex dragon couples ever

[PixelShark]

That is... a truly offensive and callous thing to say; one, its very dismissive, two, what proof do you have that a creature capable of expelling FIRE from its BODY isnt capable of changing that colour?? like, I can do that. three, you realize theres female lions with manes, right? Its not even all that simple, and four, do you think transgender people suddenly.... change bodies???

 

look i dont want to get into a fight over, of all things, gay dragons but please put a little thought into what you say before you say it.

 

and i really hope that dragon isnt going to use the word "hermaphrodite." 

 

like, i dont get this argument that only male and female dragons can breed as if they already dont have highly specialized organs that produce flame or stars or turn INCORPOREAL of all pseudoscience concepts- bees have three sexes, is it really so inconceivable that a fantasy race might not face the same problems

 

again, i think this problem would one hundred percent be solved by.... not making same sex dragons have the baby. just where it says "the two dragons mate to produce an egg" have it say something along the lines of "the two dragons find an abandoned egg to care for." no mechanics change, just one extra line of dialogue and bam; the game is now lgbt friendly and people not comfortable with that are literally not required to breed same sex dragon couples ever

Okay, no, I'm going to defend angelicdragonpuppy here.

 

I saw nothing offensive in angelic's statement. Literally nothing at all. Please don't be lashing out at them just because you felt offended by something you saw in their statement.

 

Anatomy is anatomy. If the dragons were never meant to breed with another of the same sex to produce an offspring, then they certainly won't do it now. Because that's just not how things have worked, or will ever work. It's simple science.

 

Your argument is that dragons supposedly already have the ability to change gender at will. That is completely untrue. And they SHOULDN'T have it. Do you know why? There about a hundred reasons I could give you, but let me give you one of the massive reasons: several dragon species of Dragon Cave work based on a matriarchy. What the heck is the point of a matriarchy if suddenly now ALL of the dragons can be either gender they want? In fact, I'm going to give you solid evidence as to why Hellfire Wyverns are the way they are.

 

Here's a valid reason why Hellfire Wyverns are grouped by color, to quote the Dragon Cave Wikia:

"Hellfire Wyverns are so named for their foul tempers and fiery visages. Their social structure places all females above all males, due to superior physical characteristics and violent dispositions. Forced subservience of the males causes them to become vicious, petty, antisocial, and passive-aggressive compared to the aggressive and social females. However, orphaned hatchlings raised by foster parents of another species can develop surprisingly even tempers and mellow dispositions, proving that their defining unpleasant nature is, in fact, a learned behavior." Link to the Wikia as proof

 

...So no. A male wouldn't change their color, because the color differentiation goes back to the matriarchy the Hellfire Wyvern has, and the Hellfire Wyvern is a simple example. Again, we roll back to "why dragons don't have the ability to change genders on the whim." There would be absolutely NO order among the species. And there would be no balance between the genders, because no set gender roles exist anymore.

 

Nothing is wrong with the word "hermaphrodite." It's a legitimate thing, lol. What the heck is your problem with it? There are even human hermaphrodites.

 

You say you don't want to get into a fight and yet here you are accusing someone of being malicious and rude when they truly weren't. So, I hope my outsider's response will end it for you, so this freakin' page can get back on topic (which wasn't even about dragons changing genders, by the way).

Edited November 5, 2016 by PixelShark

[Draikinator]

Okay, no, I'm going to defend angelicdragonpuppy here.

 

I saw nothing offensive in angelic's statement. Literally nothing at all. Please don't be lashing out at them just because you felt offended by something you saw in their statement.

 

Anatomy is anatomy. If the dragons were never meant to breed with another of the same sex to produce an offspring, then they certainly won't do it now. Because that's just not how things have worked, or will ever work. It's simple science.

 

Your argument is that dragons supposedly already have the ability to change gender at will. That is completely untrue. And they SHOULDN'T have it. Do you know why? There about a hundred reasons I could give you, but let me give you one of the massive reasons: several dragon species of Dragon Cave work based on a matriarchy. What the heck is the point of a matriarchy if suddenly now ALL of the dragons can be either gender they want? In fact, I'm going to give you solid evidence as to why Hellfire Wyverns are the way they are.

 

Here's a valid reason why Hellfire Wyverns are grouped by color, to quote the Dragon Cave Wikia:

"Hellfire Wyverns are so named for their foul tempers and fiery visages. Their social structure places all females above all males, due to superior physical characteristics and violent dispositions. Forced subservience of the males causes them to become vicious, petty, antisocial, and passive-aggressive compared to the aggressive and social females. However, orphaned hatchlings raised by foster parents of another species can develop surprisingly even tempers and mellow dispositions, proving that their defining unpleasant nature is, in fact, a learned behavior." Link to the Wikia as proof

 

...So no. A male wouldn't change their color, because the color differentiation goes back to the matriarchy the Hellfire Wyvern has, and the Hellfire Wyvern is a simple example. Again, we roll back to "why dragons don't have the ability to change genders on the whim." There would be absolutely NO order among the species. And there would be no balance between the genders, because no set gender roles exist anymore.

 

Nothing is wrong with the word "hermaphrodite." It's a legitimate thing, lol. What the heck is your problem with it? There are even human hermaphrodites.

 

You say you don't want to get into a fight and yet here you are accusing someone of being malicious and rude when they truly weren't. So, I hope my outsider's response will end it for you, so this freakin' page can get back on topic (which wasn't even about dragons changing genders, by the way).

wow.... no. I wasn't suggesting they change genders, thats not.... what transgender actually means. I never said they were being malicious- but you are capable of accidentally being hurtful, the same way one might accidentally bump someone in the hall. And.... yeah, hermaphrodite is... a pretty offensive word to transgender people. I don't care that its used in science- its largely inaccurate to use in its current form anyway because its so nonspecific, and.... I mean, seriously, a five second google search will tell you: its been used as a slur against transgender and intersex people for decades. If these "human hermaphrodites" your talking about are people that display the sex characteristics typically associated with male and female.... the word is intersex. And in that context, hermaphrodite is 10000% a bad word. If you wouldnt call a gay person the f word you shouldnt call an intersex person a hermaphrodite. It's very hurtful, even if you didn't mean it to be.

 

I don't even want to get into this specific example you've given because you're trying to describe the transgender experience as "changing genders on a whim" and that is... I'm not up for that argument. I just want to play a dragon breeding sim, I don't want to talk to people that think so little of something so intrinsic to my identity.

 

I literally don't want to fight, i want to be able to expect some basic respect to my existence and that I have the right to enjoy this game just as much as you do and I have the right to decided what is or is not offensive to transgender people, as a transgender person. If you're not transgender... you don't get to decide whats offensive.

 

whatever. i don't want a mechanic change. i just want gay dragons because i am gay and shockingly, i would love to see the fictional pixel dragons im collecting represent some aspect of my identity.

[Nightwalkerkey]

For one, I don't support for many many MANY reasons listed here. (Do support people doing whatever they want generally, but not in dc terms here)

 

 

Two- is this topic even alive in a debatable sense; the OP date is 2013, edited 2014.

I agree that there are much better ideas sitting in suggestions than this.

Edited November 5, 2016 by Nightwalkerkey

[PixelShark]

For one, I don't support for many many MANY reasons listed here. (Do support people doing whatever they want generally, but not in dc terms here)

 

 

Two- is this topic even alive in a debatable sense; the OP date is 2013, edited 2014.

I agree that there are much better ideas sitting in suggestions than this.

^ This.

 

And Draikinator, I'm only really going to respond to your fear of the word "hermaphrodite" and what my sentence "There are human hermaphrodites" means. When I was using it, saying "there are human hermaphrodites," I was talking about infants who are born kind of stuck between both genders (which is real, by the way, and the word "hermaphrodite" is a word totally acceptable to identify a gender through scientific means--it has nothing to do with "transgender" in the context I am using, which is at its basic form. It's 100% acceptable "in modern times" as well) which doctors are capable of fixing right up. I don't know what the heck it has to do with LGBT people, and I don't really NEED to know. I was only talking about the babbies. On that note, I'm just not going to continue responding to THAT particular topic/argument, and I'll quit explaining myself--I think I did that fine in my original post.

Edited November 5, 2016 by PixelShark

[Moonlightelf]

This is not intended to be hurtful in any way, nor intended as an attack. I'm just observing and being analytical.

I never said they were being malicious- but you are capable of accidentally being hurtful, the same way one might accidentally bump someone in the hall.

I wasn't going to respond to that argument... until looking where it came from. I strongly doubt someone accidentally calls someone's opinion "truly offensive and callous thing to say" and then tell that it is dismissive... when there's nothing offensive and dismissive about it... let alone callous. What I think is that you just didn't think what you said through when writing due to being very upset.

 

What I see is just stating the basic knowledge... I doubt Hellfire Wyvern males would have same strength to produce blue flames like the stronger and more aggressive females of the breed. It may be something in females' diet and anatomy that makes this happen and males simply do not have it in them due to being below females. Who knows if the females are hogging those resources too. In the end, the color of flame is often dictated by what atoms and molecules it has.

 

Ultimately... I see huge misunderstanding that just needlessly triggered you to point of aggression, which produced what you posted and then triggered others. So I just suggest deep breath and look at the comment again later when being more calm. After all, constructive replies are formed with calm mind, while anger leads to heated response that gets misinterpreted very easily.

 

And.... yeah, hermaphrodite is... a pretty offensive word to transgender people. I don't care that its used in science- its largely inaccurate to use in its current form anyway because its so nonspecific, and.... I mean, seriously, a five second google search will tell you: its been used as a slur against transgender and intersex people for decades. If these "human hermaphrodites" your talking about are people that display the sex characteristics typically associated with male and female.... the word is intersex. And in that context, hermaphrodite is 10000% a bad word. If you wouldnt call a gay person the f word you shouldnt call an intersex person a hermaphrodite. It's very hurtful, even if you didn't mean it to be.

In all honesty, I personally wouldn't have known that "hermaphrodite" would be bad word. And before I decided to respond that it isn't bad word, I decided to confirm your claim with quick search. I thank you for informing others for this and offering alternate word for the term. However, I did also find that much like LBGT people have reclaimed "dyke" and "queer" for themselves, some intersex might be doing the same with "hermaphrodite" and are proud for it. Though generally, the term should be mostly evaded and opt for the intersex.

 

I have the right to decided what is or is not offensive to transgender people, as a transgender person. If you're not transgender... you don't get to decide whats offensive.

While you have the right to decide this for yourself as a transgender person, I doubt some transgender people would appreciate you to make that decision for them. If they prefer the above term, let them use it to refer themselves with.

Now I only say "some", because I believe it may be handful of transgender people who think like that.

 

i just want gay dragons because i am gay and shockingly, i would love to see the fictional pixel dragons im collecting represent some aspect of my identity.

And props up for that! Though I have a feeling that some breeds of dragons might not practice such behavior, given that spriters and breed creators may have spent long time to solidify the dragons. From this we get to my stand on the matter...

 

So... back to topic.

 

While I do think this is very cute idea that the dragons of same sex could adopt an egg, I would be concerned from the lineages getting written over if the MxM or FxF happened to take abandoned eggs from AP. On the other hand, if the lineage is preserved by having the extra line like Vampires have the "Bitten" line, it would be more agreeable.

 

It'll be entirely another story if they would get mechanic similar to breeding... though I suppose details would need to be worked out. They wouldn't technically adopt abandoned egg... and stealing random egg from cave or wilderness (not wilderness page) would probably be huge no, given the lore. Even if egg was further away from the parent dragons, I think the unknown mommy dragon wouldn't turn blind eye to larger dragons stealing her babies.

But details on this... well... they seriously need to be worked out somehow, which also has the RP sense to it. I could live if the dragons weren't abandoned, but rather orphaned for some reason, aka parent dragon was hunted down or died for other reason.

 

But then there is another thing I'd take into account. If this were implemented, I can see the community divide not only because of political opinion but also religious beliefs. Now I don't say all are... but I think everyone knows when it comes to religion or politics, there are always people who are very much against gay marriage and gay adoptions... for more shallow opinions than one thinks...

In this game, I wouldn't want huge gap between people in the forums, not to mention the drama it might bring forth by some people... or harassment it could result to... and more work for moderators.

 

And like many people have said... writing a description is a good way to work around with this. Heck... I think it would be even the safest option, since I doubt the ones who are against LBGT community would start going and hunting down all the dragons that have such description.

 

Therefore... I say keeping it in descriptions would be the best option, unless otherwise proven. And we do have some better ideas sitting in suggestions... some being as old as this, maybe even older.

Edited November 5, 2016 by Moonlightelf

[angelicdragonpuppy]

That is... a truly offensive and callous thing to say; one, its very dismissive, two, what proof do you have that a creature capable of expelling FIRE from its BODY isnt capable of changing that colour?? like, I can do that. three, you realize theres female lions with manes, right? Its not even all that simple, and four, do you think transgender people suddenly.... change bodies???

 

look i dont want to get into a fight over, of all things, gay dragons but please put a little thought into what you say before you say it.

 

and i really hope that dragon isnt going to use the word "hermaphrodite." 

 

like, i dont get this argument that only male and female dragons can breed as if they already dont have highly specialized organs that produce flame or stars or turn INCORPOREAL of all pseudoscience concepts- bees have three sexes, is it really so inconceivable that a fantasy race might not face the same problems

 

again, i think this problem would one hundred percent be solved by.... not making same sex dragons have the baby. just where it says "the two dragons mate to produce an egg" have it say something along the lines of "the two dragons find an abandoned egg to care for." no mechanics change, just one extra line of dialogue and bam; the game is now lgbt friendly and people not comfortable with that are literally not required to breed same sex dragon couples ever

It can't because it isn't described as such...? You can't use magic / unknown biological attributes to justify everything. If we can start randomly saying all dragons can use magic / unknown biological attributes to change sex we might as well say all dragons can use magic / unknown biological attributes to breed gold eggs. "There's nothing to imply they can, but let's do it anyway!" doesn't work. Countless BSA suggestions have been shut down for this reason--you have to work within what the concept gives you, not wildly speculate. If nothing says they can change sex, then they can't. Now if a dragon is added that CAN, that's a different story. Which, speaking of...

 

It is a hermaphrodite dragon based on slugs that picks one gender after the initial breeding and sticks with it. Hermaphroditism is a natural biological term that applies to tons of invertebrate animals, nothing wrong with it.

 

Again, lineage is ABOUT PEDIGREE. If I have two adult Rottweilers and adopt a Doberman that doesn't mean me putting them down as its parents on a fake family tree is going to mean anything to the vet or anyone else. There are already dragons with descriptions that mention them adopting other dragons. I have some myself. I see no good reason to add a secondary adoptive family tree function when these things already can and are handled easily enough via descriptions. If adoption matters that much to people's stories... Then people can take a few seconds to pen that story down.

Edited November 5, 2016 by angelicdragonpuppy

[Lurhstaap]

Having same sex relationships != having babies together.

 

I just don't see the need for this mechanic in the game. You can already decide two of your dragons are in a same sex relationship, and that a third dragon you own is their adopted child.

 

And there are some solid game mechanics reasons for not allowing same sex breeding, magic or no magic.

[hazeh]

For being applied to existing dragons, I just don't feel there is a justifiable way of integrating something like this into the game. Of course I'd enjoy something like this, but I don't believe the options proposed would really work for the dragons we already have.

But, I think it would be entirely plausible and fun to have a new dragon (or a few of them) that has a BSA allowing one of the females (or males) to temporarily alter their biology into another sex for a certain amount of time to breed if, say, you have multiples of one gender on your scroll. Since this happens in real life with certain fish (and I think some lizards?) I don't see why there would be any problem implementing that for specific new breeds.

Edit: And no, don't call human people with multiple genitalia sets "hermaphrodites." They are intersex. That is the appropriate term. If those specific people want to call themselves something else, then fine, but as non-intersex people we refer to them as intersex.

Edited November 5, 2016 by Shiny Hazard Sign