Allow Alts/Hybrids to be CB

[Ashes The Second]

Just because there aren't very many of the HM winners who picked CB alts or hybrids as their prize doesn't mean that they don't matter. I just see it as a matter of honor. Maybe they don't want some special dragon created to compensate them. And if they do get it, it won't be long before someone is screaming "UNFAIR" because they can never have one of those!

 

DC has gone along just fine with alts being breed-only for many years. Now is it just because some people have CB alts that you think everyone should be able to have them? I don't think a change like this should be made without some compelling reason and I don't think there is one.

I agree, why should you get something special that we should all be able to have?

[Obscure_Trash]

I agree, why should you get something special that we should all be able to have?

That was kind of the point of prizes and HMs, wasn't it? Something special that you may not be able to get ordinarily.

 

For the case of CB black and vine dragons, I do not believe it is necessary to allow them to alt. I am fine with the introduction of new concepts that use whatever alt structure they want, but I don't think modifying the behavior of these in-cave alts is a good idea.

 

Thanks for the reply, TJ. :3

 

/quoting for the new page if anyone on either side wants to address this

[HeatherMarie]

I agree, why should you get something special that we should all be able to have?

Okay, then no one should have Hollies, since they are so unbelievably hard to get. No one should have any Frills or Bright Pinks, either, since newer members can't get them.

 

Come on now. HMs were picked by TJ (randomly, however) to obtain a prize. A PRIZE, not a regular old dragon. I can't speak for them because I've never been one of them, but *I* would be pretty pissed if I WON a PRIZE, and got my PRIZE, and then suddenly everyone else was able to get one too. It's no longer a prize. It's no longer unique or special. It's JUST another dragon.

 

edit:

That was kind of the point of prizes and HMs, wasn't it? Something special that you may not be able to get ordinarily.

Sock said it better then me. Of course.

Edited February 9, 2013 by Marie19R

[Vhale]

There is an Equus dragon with a ton of different colors that would be cool for an alt dragon. There are enough varieties of it that not only could each biome have unique colors, but there could be bred alts as well. I think it has 16 total.

 

People mentioned pygmies a lot lately, and the Fly dragon has both lots of alts and is a pygmy. The Meteor Shower is nicely easternish and is the same.

 

I like the mechanic with Sunrise/Sunsets personally, that makes them "alt" depending on the time of day. If the artists thought that was appropriate for their dragons, I think more of those would be nice. It's not a chaotic as nebulas or stripes, but requires the user to keep a careful eye on their egg. Same with Night and Day Glory drakes where time catching makes a difference.

[Princess Kiara]

Great idea, angelicdragonpuppy. I have been wanting this for a VERY long time. Let's hope it gets accepted Support 100%!

[Shadlok]

I don't support this at all.

 

The alts are fine the way that they are, in my opinion. They are obtainable through breeding and those who truly want alts can get them that way. They can be short lineaged, or beautifully lineaged, or both.

 

A few people have CB alts or hybrids, that they have received through HM or winning the raffle, and it's not fair to remove the validity of these dragons by removing the impossibility of this.

 

I just don't think that this is something that needs to be addressed because players want a CB alt. TJ coded it the way that it is for a reason.

 

Blacks are rare enough as it is, and vines tend not to linger around too much either. By giving them more reason to be snagged from the cave, less people have chance of actually obtaining them.

 

I think this is along the same lines as the BSA. Rare dragons can't have a BSA since they need no reason to be made more desirable.

 

Besides, from the voting system, the large majority of players have the same mindset.

[purplehaze]

I agree, why should you get something special that we should all be able to have?

Well, no, I don't think you actually do agree with me. If I am reading your post right you seem to be saying exactly the opposite of what I said in the post you are quoting.

 

I am very glad to see that TJ seems to agree that this is not needed.

Edited February 9, 2013 by purplehaze

[Fuzzbucket]

Blacks are rare enough as it is, and vines tend not to linger around too much either. By giving them more reason to be snagged from the cave, less people have chance of actually obtaining them.

Leaving aside the prize issue - which as far as I am concerned makes it a TOTAL non-starter, THIS !

 

I NEED some CB blacks - ordinary ones. Some hope - even now !

[Moonlightelf]

I must say no to this suggestion, completely, for various reasons.

 

Lineage

I am sure that there are many people with lineages, which have these hybrids as perfectly bred as possible into Purebreeds. People have worked on these lineages for quite some time. Some people go as far as purebreeding even some rares.

If I heard that there suddenly drops CB Hybrids and/or Alts from Blacks and Vines, it would quickly make me want replace all the Hybrids and Alts to CB. And of course, it would seriously piss me off too.

 

Honorable Mentions

It would be really hard slap on their faces if there came CB Alts or Hybrids (be some CB Hybrids requested or not at the moment) in the cave. They worked infront of their HMs through events, and it would be very unfair if this suggestion would happen.

 

"But Moonlightelf, the HM who requested for CB Alts or Hybrids are very small minority compared to the entire DC."

"There's like 80 HMs, and only some of them requested CB Alts or Hybrids. Why should we listen to them instead of over 40,000 other user?"

So? There are very small minority of these HMs. So there are the CB Tinsels and Shimmer-scales a very small minority, yet you aren't demanding those to drop from the cave. There are now 60 CB Tinsel owners and 60 CB Shimmer-scale owners. Hell, why should they alone have the CB prizes then if the 80 HM aren't allowed to have something special either? And why we should listen to them since they are minority?

That is very weak argument. And very fraudulent on top of it, IMO.

 

Those two reasons are standing on top of my arguments. Also to throw the next argument into here too:

 

Natural Hybrids in Real Life

Yes, they are very rare. It's not every day you see a hybrid in wild and more often in the zoos and such places. Though what would happen if such was born middle of lions? Or horses? Or whatever? I haven't studied much, but I believe that they may be so different compared to their parents that they just... may not survive that often due to one reason or another?

 

So lets try to think this in DC world.

The Black Alts are rare, as well as Vine Alts. Now the next thing I'm going to say is speculation. What if the wild dragons, who produce the CB dragons we get, actually see the alts as some sort of deformation instead? Sure they could try caring about them, but those are being so different from their parents that they just may not survive as long as the normal variation?

As for Hybrids... Skywing and Deep Sea don't seem to encounter that often. Now how likely it would be for Water to be with Skywing? Pretty much more likely than Deep Sea, but not much. And how likely Spitfire approves Purple as their mate? They are aggressive breed due to being "notorious for their territorial natures", while Purple seems... according to sprite, more calm breed.

 

I'm done, for now.

[Fuzzbucket]

Honorable Mentions

It would be really hard slap on their faces if there came CB Alts or Hybrids (be some CB Hybrids requested or not at the moment) in the cave. They worked infront of their HMs through events, and it would be very unfair if this suggestion would happen.

 

"But Moonlightelf, the HM who requested for CB Alts or Hybrids are very small minority compared to the entire DC."

"There's like 80 HMs, and only some of them requested CB Alts or Hybrids. Why should we listen to them instead of over 40,000 other user?"

Yes. There are a very small number of prizewinners for a reason. It is that nowhere near everyone can or should expect a prize. PRIZES ARE SPECIAL. Just because the other 40,000 didn't win one and are peeved doesn't give them the right to spoil things for those who did.

So? There are very small minority of these HMs. So there are the CB Tinsels and Shimmer-scales a very small minority, yet you aren't demanding those to drop from the cave. There are now 60 CB Tinsel owners and 60 CB Shimmer-scale owners. Hell, why should they alone have the CB prizes then if the 80 HM aren't allowed to have something special either? And why we should listen to them since they are minority?

Give it time and someone WILL start to argue exactly that. Slippery slopes....

 

[Vhale]

If there was a snowball's chance in hell I could land a dragon twin to Jewel I'd argue that. I'm afraid my ethics can be corrupted by pretty blue shimmer dragons. /sadface

 

And a silver Ribbon Dancer and blue Rosebud...

 

But TJ mentioned other ideas for alts. I don't think we need new ideas necessarily, I'd just like to see more that we already have. Time of day, different biomes etc.

[platedlizard]

I voted No to both. As it is now cb Alts and cb Hybrids are special rewards for people who got Honorable Mentions for the various raffles/games we've had onsite. Making them available to anyone takes away that person's prize.

[MaggieXawesomeness]

I think they should be able to ALT, just at a very low rate

[Ready]

I'm against this, too. It's seems wrong to go back on a rule.

[Shamiir]

*Takes this post and runs around with it*

 

This, this and this. If you want to argue against it for other reasons, then go ahead, but I don't feel that shooting down a proposal that's about 50/50 in terms of support atm (which doesn't happen often here--suggestions usually go crazy one way or the other) just for the sake of such a small amount of people is very logical. ;;

......

 

But overriding a suggestion just to please an extreme minority...

On the same principal, let's put Tinsels in the cave, along with the Shimmer-scales. They're all still a small minority.

 

I and many others are 'catch your own cave' players and these have ruined our game!!

So have them all in the cave.

(And, yes, I am being facetious for those who don't understand written humour)

 

But the principal applies.

 

Ready wrote: "It's seems wrong to go back on a rule. "

I agree, but the rules are changed here constantly lol

[Wahya]

I would love CB Alts. I want to use Alt vines in a lineage that doesn't include their ugly standard version.

 

CB Hybrids aren't my thing, but if others want them I don't see an issue with it.

[skauble]

Although I would love to have some CB alt Vines, I vote no on CB alts. In fact, I'd like to see more breed only alts introduced.

 

Alts don't have the value they once did, but they do still have value if for no other reason than the time and scroll space factor. This gives a lot of new players, and some older players who have difficulty with hunting, a way into the trading market. In fact, and I know a lot of folks will disagree with this, but I'd not only like to see more types of alts, but I'd like to see them breed a bit rares to increase the value for those who may need that "in" into the market and so are willing to put time and egg slots into the effort.

 

I just feel like this might be one more way that slower players get shut out while super fast cave hunters get the benefit.

[Shinobimasterz]

Nah, I don't really like this idea as they've been concepted to have alts or be hybrids. You can't be a CB hybrid, at least it isn't very ''dragon cave-ish''

 

Anyway. I'd say no

A lot of people had a tough time breeding those alts, all that effort would have been in vain if introduced

[Wookieinmashoo]

This is exactly the point I wanted to make. The people who took CB Black Alts as HM prizes would have to feel pretty cheated if those kind of things started to get common.

 

I'm also not keen on the CB Hybrids, just because the Hybrid nature is a little "cool" thing in the cave. (I've actually done them on accident before…)

Pretty much my thoughts. Someone already picked a CB alt before and CB hybrids are also on the list for things that can be gotten as prizes. Having them as CBs would be nice for lineages, but the prizes overrides any feelings of nice lineages.

 

So this is an absolute no for me. Before the tree contest I would have said yes though.

[purplehaze]

Although I would love to have some CB alt Vines, I vote no on CB alts. In fact, I'd like to see more breed only alts introduced.

 

Alts don't have the value they once did, but they do still have value if for no other reason than the time and scroll space factor. This gives a lot of new players, and some older players who have difficulty with hunting, a way into the trading market. In fact, and I know a lot of folks will disagree with this, but I'd not only like to see more types of alts, but I'd like to see them breed a bit rares to increase the value for those who may need that "in" into the market and so are willing to put time and egg slots into the effort.

 

I just feel like this might be one more way that slower players get shut out while super fast cave hunters get the benefit.

I have been against this idea from the beginning anyway, but I had not really thought of this aspect (not being one myself who has the patience to raise alts for trade). You are absolutely right, though, and it gives me one more reason for being against it.

[Fuzzbucket]

Absolutely with skauble and purplehaze on that.

 

I love them being breed only; it makes for lineage fun. (Not that they mostly co-operate but it is such a joy when they do !)

[kitty41188123]

Also I hate to be a dream crusher, but without the spriters okay, for the alts I don't believe no matter how many people say yes this can happen.

Same thing for the the alts, our dear creators must agree to having their vision changed. Which honestly I don't believe they will agree to.

You speak of caveblockers?

Go back to the days of the old pinks and purples, those use to be caveblockers. There would be a huge amount of those and mints. The cave is a lot more diverse than it used to be, and I enjoy all the different things.

[Ayelldee]

Absolutely with skauble and purplehaze on that.

 

I love them being breed only; it makes for lineage fun. (Not that they mostly co-operate but it is such a joy when they do !)

I'm in this camp too - it's not broken, it doesn't NEED fixing.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

I think this has been suggested before but couldn't find it, sooo... since CB Alts / Hybrids were recently rejected as a possible thing in the proposed shop I wanted to make a different suggestion.

 

Can there please be a chance to find CB Alts / Hybrids in the cave, even if they're just as rare as (or, potentially, although I dislike it, rarer) than CB Golds?

 

Honestly, having CB Alts / Hybrids makes sense for a lot of reasons. Hybridization and mutations happen all the time in the wild--they aren't just human-influenced happenings. Furthermore, based on DC logic, they make even more sense here than they do in even our real world. Almost all dragons are portrayed as human-like in intelligence, capable of interbreeding with a wide range of species--so why wouldn't these hyper intelligent creatures, with their own minds and willpower, not occasionally choose a mate from another dragon breed because, well, they LIKE each other? On top of that, hybrids and alts are portrayed in-game as functionally breeding, healthy creatures, so there's little evolutionary pressure to prevent them from happening.

 

[danicast]

Sorry, no support.

The best place for CB alts/hybrids is the shop; it doesn't make sense that a dragon that can only be obtained by breeding all of sudden drop in the cave.