Allow Alts/Hybrids to be CB

[danicast]

Sorry but that is your opinion. I do not see why I, or anybody else, should drop the idea because you said so. Unless you are TJ.

Of course it is my opinion, that's the point of having these threads, so people express their opinions. Just because you want hybrids/alts as CBS and you don't care about respect the dragon's creators I'm not going to agree with you.

 

I'll take the chance and express an aditional opinion: I think the spriters should be consulted about the idea of transforming their alts/hybrids in CBs, exactly like we do when we want to propose a BSA. If the creator answer "No" it will be "NO".

Edited April 7, 2016 by danicast

[Thuban]

I was replying to the assumption that they were never CB and that is not true. Nothing about "norm" on my post that you just quoted.

I was replying to your reply. If you would like a more fleshed out response:

 

the only cb alts/hybrids before the raffles were TJ's. and the very very few cb alt blacks that had happened as the result of a glitch. They were never really meant to be a thing, but then the raffles happened. Raffles.. can not really be considered normal.. especially since they did end eventually.

 

In my own thread, once they were removed from being part of the raffle, they were also removed as being part of the store... for awhile anyhow. I had decided that even if it took 4 years to earn one, I wanted the chance, so they got re-added, in HOPES that he might change his mind (it has been known to happen from time to time )

 

After a brief conversation today, I was reminded that he had indeed said no, and I chose to just announce that they weren't going to be a thing offered. It took me a little bit to find the quote where he had said no before (as i accidentally removed it from the first post when it was updated). This thread gave me a reason to go dig harder to find it.

[Cinnamin Draconna]

In the beginning, only TJ had cb ALTs/hybrids

Then there was a GLITCH and a few folk wound up with cb ALT Blacks

Then TJ said NO and the glitched dragons became 2nd gen deadlines

Then TJ allowed them to be Honorable Mention selections in the yearly raffle

Then he changed his mind and said NO again

Then there were no more raffles

 

To me, there are enough NOs in that list to not even bother trying to change TJ's mind.

[NotBambi]

I was replying to your reply. If you would like a more fleshed out response:

 

the only cb alts/hybrids before the raffles were TJ's. and the very very few cb alt blacks that had happened as the result of a glitch. They were never really meant to be a thing, but then the raffles happened. Raffles.. can not really be considered normal.. especially since they did end eventually.

 

In my own thread, once they were removed from being part of the raffle, they were also removed as being part of the store... for awhile anyhow. I had decided that even if it took 4 years to earn one, I wanted the chance, so they got re-added, in HOPES  that he might change his mind (it has been known to happen from time to time )

 

After a brief conversation today, I was reminded that he had indeed said no, and I chose to just announce that they weren't going to be a thing offered. It took me a little bit to find the quote where he had said no before (as i accidentally removed it from the first post when it was updated). This thread gave me a reason to go dig harder to find it.

I'm quite confused by your reply. Looking at the first post in the store, I can see, right now, the following:

CB Hybrids and Alts:

Should cost 1.5 years of points, because they aren’t supposed to be CBs… Or 6,630 shards.

Lore: the dragon offering the “orphan” stole it from a NPC human that bred it. Hence why something that should never happen in the wild is available in “CB” version… which really just means that its parents aren’t known.

TJ wants them super rare, hence the year and a half.

No other limits should be needed, given the high cost.

Considering that normal human beings go to the initial suggestion, that is, at minimum, misleading.

You are saying that he said no, but you re-added in hopes he might change his mind. Makes sense.

So why shouldn't ADP start a topic asking for something different from the store, why shouldn't I ask for the drop to happen only during the 10th BDay celebration. HOPES, right?

What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

 

[danicast]

why shouldn't I ask for the drop to happen only during the 10th BDay celebration. HOPES, right?

It's too late to ask to make something in the next DC birthday. That should be asked at least a year ago and not a month before the birthday. We have precedents of people asking about special events or other things to happen in DC birthday and if they are asked too close to the date they are simply ignored.

[aussieJJDude]

I personally don't see why not.

If TJ can have them - then we know it's possible to have CB alts with little coding - and honestly, it does make sense biologically.

[Pokemonfan13]

It sounds like thu forgot to edit the first post, or edited out a different reference but missed that one. People do make mistakes.

[NotBambi]

Of course it is my opinion, that's the point of having these threads, so people express their opinions. Just because you want hybrids/alts as CBS and you don't care about respect the dragon's creators I'm not going to agree with you.

To express an opinion on a suggestion is one thing. To tell someone to drop their idea/suggestion is quite different, it is to deny the right of others to express their opinions.

 

It's too late to ask to make something in the next DC birthday. That should be asked at least a year ago and not a month before the birthday. We have precedents of people asking about special events or other things to happen in DC birthday and if they are asked too close to the date they are simply ignored.

I do not know if is too late. You do not either. TJ does.

 

[danicast]

To express an opinion on a suggestion is one thing. To tell someone to drop their idea/suggestion is quite different, it is to deny the right of others to express their opinions.

 

 

I do not know if is too late. You do not either. TJ  does.

Oh no, people have the right to keep comenting even when an idea is dropped. Do you want an example, I'll give you one: the idea of keeping the old sprites for updated sprites as an option. TJ dismissed the idea, the thread remained open, some people posted and now the thread is buried somewhere in this section, forgotten.

Keep commenting, exercise your right. And don't forget: it is MY right too.

 

 

And yes, based in previous years, IT IS too late to ask stuff for this year DC birthday. I know you were not a member yet in previous years so you couldn't know better but trust me when I say: some suggestions exist for 5, 6 years and TJ still didn't decided about them. A suggestion made for an event that will happen in a month is not going to fly.

 

Now I suggest you to return to the suggestion and stop to argue with me before a mod decide to interefere, because, I don't know if you know, that happens too.

Edited April 7, 2016 by danicast

[skwerl56767]

Wait, aren't CB Alts already dropping in the cave? I thought that's what made them CB. After all, a friend of mine grabbed a couple of Tan Ridgewings in the cave a few days ago, so I don't see why alts would be bred-only? Unless only some alts are bred-only, and Tan Ridgewings are one of those alt dragons that can be obtained either way.

On the topic of hybrids, while it does make sense that wild dragons could create hybrids if they wanted to, I'm heavily leaning toward "No" on it simply because of the game mechanic it changes. If something is bred-only, shouldn't it only be available through breeding? Having them drop in the cave wouldn't make them bred-only anymore; it would just turn them into regular dragons, where they can be both bred and grabbed in the cave. It removes some of the uniqueness of hybrids, in my opinion.

Yes it makes sense that alts and hybrids could drop in the cave, but I'm not supportive of how it affects the game mechanics. I think it's fine the way it is.

[StormBirdRising]

Thank you so much for this thread, angelicdragonpuppy. I love Alt Blacks. I was blown away when I saw a CB Alt Black on someone's scroll. It would be amazing if I could get one for myself, even if there is just a snowball's chance of getting one, I'm glad to take that chance.

[NotBambi]

Oh no, people have the right to keep comenting even when an idea is dropped. Do you want an example, I'll give you one: the idea of keeping the old sprites for updated sprites as an option. TJ dismissed the idea, the thread remained open, some people posted and now the thread is buried somewhere in this section, forgotten.

Keep commenting, exercise your right.

 

 

And yes, based in previous years, IT IS too late to ask stuff for this year DC birthday. I know you were not a member yet in previous years so you couldn't know better but trust me when I say: some suggestions exist for 5, 6 years and TJ still didn't decided about them. A suggestion made for an event that will happen in a month is not going to fly.

 

Now I suggest you to return to the suggestion and stop to argue with me before a mod decide to interefere, because, I don't know if you know, that happens too.

If TJ posts in this topic and says "No", I'll not insist. Until then I do not see why to drop the idea.

 

Wrong. I have been reading the forum for several years even if I joined it only when I found an egg in the AP that I felt I had to return. The fact that suggestions have been around for years without being implemented does not mean that they could not be, time-wise. Means only that TJ decided to not implement them then. If we are going with "trust me", trust me: leave the details and timing to TJ. He knows what he is doing.

[Kovia]

Wait, aren't CB Alts already dropping in the cave? I thought that's what made them CB. After all, a friend of mine grabbed a couple of Tan Ridgewings in the cave a few days ago, so I don't see why alts would be bred-only? Unless only some alts are bred-only, and Tan Ridgewings are one of those alt dragons that can be obtained either way.

Ridgewings and Dorsals are not what we're talking about here. Some don't even consider them true alts since they have different egg sprites as well. By alts, they mean Blacks, Dark Greens, and Undines. Also, there are both CB and bred Ridgewings and Dorsals of both colors.

 

 

Kinda neutral, while I could see CB alts/hybrids being a thing, I don't like the idea of another ultra rare. People flip out over golds and silvers as it is. My one and only CB Silver I had to trade a few CB holiday eggs for.

[schenanigans]

Wait, aren't CB Alts already dropping in the cave? I thought that's what made them CB. After all, a friend of mine grabbed a couple of Tan Ridgewings in the cave a few days ago, so I don't see why alts would be bred-only? Unless only some alts are bred-only, and Tan Ridgewings are one of those alt dragons that can be obtained either way.

Undines, Vines/Dark Greens and Blacks are bred only Alts. "Alt" Nebulas, Tan Ridgewings, etc.... those are CBs that have been so since the beginning. So when people ask for CB Alts, they're asking for a CB version of the Black, Dark Green/Vine & Undine Alts rather than bred alts.

 

I feel like people are attacking each other in this thread and getting way more aggressive than they need to be.... Opinions are opinions, no need to get personal.

 

Edit: Because my dummy self keeps forgetting about Alt Vines. Probably since I only got my first one a month or so ago...

Edited April 7, 2016 by Areous

[danicast]

If TJ posts in this topic and says "No", I'll not insist. Until then I do not see why to drop the idea.

I will explain again, since you are not understanding.

 

Some dragons were conceived by their creators to be obtained only by breeding like black alts, undine alts, hellhorses (there is more but I think those examples are enough to illustrate my explanation). Their creators made them to be this way, they were conceived to be obtained only through breeding. I think we should RESPECT the creators and their concepts and not request that suddenly these bred only dragons be transformed into cave borns and drop in the cave or atleast ASK the creators what they think about this idea.

 

I hope I was more clear in explain what I think this time.

[NotBambi]

The difference is that Tan & Purple Ridgewings are different as eggs. Blacks and Undines have to hatch differently. Sort of like Nebulas I suppose, except the alts for Blacks and Undines are quite rarer. So people would continue to pick up CB Black/Undine eggs to try and hatch Alts.

 

Just a hypothesis was all, not entirely sure how it would all work out.

My apologies, I should have explained what I meant. When we are in the biomes, we do not see the colors. So we pick up a bunch of Purple Ridgewings (with all the respect for people that love the Purple ones) when our goal is to catch a Tan. That does not make the Purple less rare. On the same way, if people were to pick up in the biomes a bunch of normal Blacks trying to get an Alt, that should not affect the rarity of the normal Blacks. Or am I missing something?

[StormBirdRising]

I hope this is one dragon dream that comes true: that there are some Alt Blacks dropping in the Cave, even if it is just one a month or one a year, it would be better than one never. I think it can only enhance dragon play.

[Kovia]

My apologies, I should have explained what I meant. When we are in the biomes, we do not see the colors. So we pick up a bunch of Purple Ridgewings (with all the respect for people that love the Purple ones) when our goal is to catch a Tan. That does not make the Purple less rare. On the same way, if people were to pick up in the biomes a bunch of normal Blacks trying to get an Alt, that should not affect the rarity of the normal Blacks. Or am I missing something?

Couple problems with that point.

 

1: Ridgewings and Dorsals are more common than Blacks, Vines, and Undines.

 

2: The alt-fails still have to go somewhere. Have you ever seen an AP half full with purple Ridgewings? I have, and lots of them are CB. And if they don't die off, which is most of the time since people jump on hatchies and hatchable eggs in the AP, they alter the ratios.

 

3: CB Blacks already went through a period of super-rarity. Do we want to envoke another?

[NotBambi]

I will explain again, since you are not understanding.

 

Some dragons were conceived by their creators to be obtained only by breeding like black alts, undine alts, hellhorses (there is more but I think those examples are enough to illustrate my explanation). Their creators made them to be this way, they were conceived to be obtained only through breeding. I think we should  RESPECT the creators and their concepts and not request that suddenly these bred only dragons be transformed into cave borns and drop in the cave or atleast ASK the creators what they think about this idea.

 

I hope I was more clear in explain what I think this time.

Are you saying that, at the time that TJ allowed the CB Alts and Hybrids to be awarded as HMs, the creators did not agree? Interesting. You said that the creators "made them to be this way, they were conceived to be obtained only through breeding", was that said by the creators in some post? I would like to read it.

 

Look, can we just agree on disagreeing? We are not getting anywhere.

[schenanigans]

My apologies, I should have explained what I meant. When we are in the biomes, we do not see the colors. So we pick up a bunch of Purple Ridgewings (with all the respect for people that love the Purple ones) when our goal is to catch a Tan. That does not make the Purple less rare. On the same way, if people were to pick up in the biomes a bunch of normal Blacks trying to get an Alt, that should not affect the rarity of the normal Blacks. Or am I missing something?

What I know a few players at least do (not everyone of course), they "view" the Ridgewing egg first to see if it's Tan. That's how I've gotten mine - I've been lucky enough that my internet is fast enough that I can do that.

 

I also don't believe that Tan Ridgewings are nearly as rare as Alt Blacks, Undines, or Dark Greens, but that's just me. So if people are going to continue to pick the eggs up when they see them in hopes for an Alt... Does that make sense? I hope I'm explaining it right haha. Just a thought, no way of knowing for sure unless it actually happened.

 

Edit: Slightly 'd by Kovia haha. That's what I get for being on my phone

Edited April 7, 2016 by Areous

[NotBambi]

Couple problems with that point.

 

1: Ridgewings and Dorsals are more common than Blacks, Vines, and Undines.

 

2: The alt-fails still have to go somewhere. Have you ever seen an AP half full with purple Ridgewings? I have, and lots of them are CB. And if they don't die off, which is most of the time since people jump on hatchies and hatchable eggs in the AP, they alter the ratios.

 

3: CB Blacks already went through a period of super-rarity. Do we want to envoke another?

I'm trying to wrap my brain around your points but still missing something. You had me at "ratios". Everybody references them but still did not get anybody to explain clearly how they exactly work. Or do not work, since that seems to be the case.

[danicast]

Are you saying that, at the time that TJ allowed the CB Alts and Hybrids to be awarded as HMs, the creators did not agree? Interesting. You said that the creators "made them to be this way, they were conceived to be obtained only through breeding", was that said by the creators in some post? I would like to read it.

 

Look, can we just agree on disagreeing? We are not getting anywhere.

I don't know and don't have how to know what TJ did. Not all dragons concepts are public but we know, based in the threads where they were released that they were conceived to work that way.

We are not getting anywhere because you don't think it's important to ask the creators if they care that we change their creations. I do care.

I still insist that we should make a list of which dragons that are bred only today and contact the creators to ask permission to change the way these dragons behave. Perhaps the OP could do that since it's her suggestion.

Edited April 7, 2016 by danicast

[Kovia]

I still insist that we should make a list of which dragons that are bred only today and contact the creators to ask permission to change the way these dragons behave. Perhaps the OP could do that since it's her suggestion.

I'll agree with you on this one, assuming the creators are still around. Also, maybe we should leave the avatars off the list. They're technically hybrids, but they are extremely specialized and arguably rarer than other hybrids.

[schenanigans]

I'll agree with you on this one, assuming the creators are still around. Also, maybe we should leave the avatars off the list. They're technically hybrids, but they are extremely specialized and arguably rarer than other hybrids.

... I honestly never considered Avatars to be a part of this, and definitely don't see that happening. They were created with the intent to be the offspring of GoNs. So yes, I'd agree haha.

[NotBambi]

Just a thought, no way of knowing for sure unless it actually happened.

Agreed