ANSWERED:Raffle Rethink?

[TheGrox]

But if the winners are just going to leave without even looking at the prize - I even think some prizes last year died - then that really isn't useful at all.

[Rhynn Collins]

That's true, but it doesn't really matter. Say someone just won a car through the lottery and dies a day later. Does that mean the lottery was flawed because he won't use the car? Nope, it just means the prize happened to go to someone who won't be using it. That's how these things work - who gets the prize is up to pure chance and it's completely up to them what they do with it

[give your heart a break]

This is my first proper xmas here and if i won then I won I'm not fussed at the end of the day everyone worked hard to do the cooking contest and it doesn't matter if people bugger off if they win that's their loss, but to say that new people don't deserve a chance in winning is wrong

Edited January 9, 2013 by SockPuppet Strangler

[RainDear]

I always felt that the contests were to excite us, give us something to look forward to over the Christmas holiday, boost morale, and be fun. For me, they do all that and if I win, well that will just be frosting on a cake I already enjoyed.

[TheGrox]

That's true, but it doesn't really matter. Say someone just won a car through the lottery and dies a day later. Does that mean the lottery was flawed because he won't use the car? Nope, it just means the prize happened to go to someone who won't be using it. That's how these things work - who gets the prize is up to pure chance and it's completely up to them what they do with it

No, because then their car would be inherited by their family, or sold or whatever. It would still be useful. It wouldn't just sit there in a field forever.

[Tiki G]

I feel like the raffle this year was perfect. In order to get a ticket, you have to cook the recipe. I don't know about anyone else, but I definitely had to cheat to get most of the recipes. (some of those recipes were complicated!) And to cheat, I had to be active on the forums and find the spoilers and spreadsheets people posted. If someone isn't active on the forums, they're most likely not going to get all of the recipes, which means they won't get as many entries to the raffle unless you sit there for hours trying different combinations. And I doubt someone who isn't very active (on DC or the forums) is going to put that much effort into it.

 

Rather than last year, where all users had to do was read a story. Which is much easier than trying hundreds of combinations for a recipe.

 

So, that is what people want right? To have active members winning the prize dragons. It seems to me that that's exactly what will be happening.

Edited January 2, 2013 by tikigurl91

[PolarVortex]

I think if they weren't intended to be bred they would be unbreedable, or else have a ridiculously tiny ratio. That's different, though, than requiring them to be bred. I too am disappointed that some people don't breed their prizes, whether by choice or because they left the site, but I recognize that that is their choice.

 

I also think the point of the raffle is to add some excitement and reward active members of the site (regardless of how long they have been playing) with something special. HOW special is clearly still a point of debate.

 

At this point, I can't wait to find out what this year's prize dragon is, and how many will be given out! Good luck to everyone!

[Kith]

I'm not sure "useful" is ever a word that could be properly applied to a raffle/lottery/contest of this nature. The point of it is the fun: the hope and excitement of perhaps winning something, and (hopefully) joy at actually winning... but I know that "real life" raffle winners don't always get what they want, or what they wanted and won wasn't as good as they were expecting, and they discard or neglect or otherwise express displeasure with their winnings. Lottery winners don't always manage the money wisely.

 

So, much as I'd love for every winner here to be dancing for joy at their winnings and gifting the babies or trading them for "reasonable prices," I can't expect that. All I can do is hope that I win, do my own little happy dance if I do, hope for next time if I don't, and congratulate anyone who actually reveals their identity as a winner - whether or not they treat their prize as I would.

[Quinney]

I always felt that the contests were to excite us, give us something to look forward to over the Christmas holiday, boost morale, and be fun. For me, they do all that and if I win, well that will just be frosting on a cake I already enjoyed.

My sentiments exactly.

[TheGrox]

I do feel that the raffle this year is a step in the right direction, yes. But people are even arguing that this year's raffle is tooo unfair because you pretty much had to use the forums to see some kind of spoilers to find out recipes...

 

I think that the raffle should be an exciting and fun event to end the year/start the next with. But, reading the posts in this thread, it obviously breeds jealousy and contempt, too.

[Sadako]

I think it does breed jealousy and contempt among a few people, and I think those people are... wrong? ungrateful? I've avoided this discussion because it seems like I can't possibly contribute to it in any reasonable or polite way, but this is getting a bit ridiculous.

 

The raffle is a fun little extra treat that TJ and the spriter(s) made for us, to make our holiday season a little more special. Be happy that you get to participate in a fun little contest, be excited that you have a chance to win a cool exclusive dragon. Don't pick apart a bit of special fun by harping on how it's not being handled right, how your own chances to benefit from it aren't big enough. Just play the little game, if you win a prize be happy about it, and be grateful that you got the chance to participate in something like this at all. Honestly. There are people who don't even have food for christmas, and we get pixel dragons!

[Fuzzbucket]

But if the winners are just going to leave without even looking at the prize - I even think some prizes last year died - then that really isn't useful at all.

It isn't USEFUL to enter any game of chance. That doesn't mean it isn't fun. Don't you ever play Bingo or anything like that ?

 

Or to put it another way - we do it for the hell of it, OK ?

 

Grox me old buddy - you are overthinking this...

[olympe]

But if the winners are just going to leave without even looking at the prize - I even think some prizes last year died - then that really isn't useful at all.

As far as I remember, TJ stated that he wouldn't allow the prize dragons to die from sickness, at the very least. Plus, he sent people an email they had to confirm to claim their prize. And still, some of them died? I find that hard to believe.

 

Just play the little game, if you win a prize be happy about it, and be grateful that you got the chance to participate in something like this at all.

I'd rather do without a raffle and prizes altogether. And I'm not the only one, as others have stated the same thing.

[Pixxelation]

Olympe: Then you don't have to participate. Some users, myself included, enjoy the raffle. Just because some users don't like something doesn't mean it should be taken away from the whole community. Some people hate teleport because they can only control 1 egg from their holiday clutches, for example, but does that mean it should be taken away? No. If you don't like something, don't participate in it.

[TheGrox]

Plus, he sent people an email they had to confirm to claim their prize. And still, some of them died? I find that hard to believe.

I could be wrong, but I know a hell of a lot of members stalked all the hatcheries for hours trying to find out all the codes of all the new dragons - and as far as I know only the ones listed on the wiki have been found.

 

Or to put it another way - we do it for the hell of it, OK ?

 

Grox me old buddy - you are overthinking this...

*sigh* I guess I am, but I'm not the only one here.

 

 

All I'm saying is: for me, the fun of the raffle was collecting lineages from all the new tinsels. But that's ruined when half the owners leave, like last year.

 

I guess it will be a bit better this year, seeing as getting raffle entries did somewhat require you to go on the forums and be fairly active. But then again that is seen as unfair too.

Edited January 2, 2013 by TheGrox

[Bloodyrose13]

I have not won a Tinsel Dragon, nor have I been lucky enough to catch a low gen. The lowest gen I was gifted is 4th gen.

 

I have absolutely no interest in:

 

Making sure winners are people who continue to play.

Making sure winners are people who will breed/gift/appreciate their prize.

 

or, apparently any of the other things some seem to want some "guarantee" of.

 

My only interest is that the giveaway is fair. In my opinion, to limit the entrants for any reason would not be fair. I would support more prizes if it seems warranted due to an increase in active players. Since the raffle is fair, there is no other change I would favor.

I agree with this completely.

 

The raffle is fair now, I did vote to increase the number of prices due to entries. I did this because it keeps the raffle fair by including everyone who decided to participate in the event, and automatically excludes inactive scrolls. The DC population in growing so some increase I think is needed to keep it fair; increasing by entries does this.

 

For those who don't like the raffle or want to get rid of the prizes don't have to participate, no body is forcing them to. TJ did this so we have something fun to do. Thank you for giving us this oppertunity.

 

Edit: I'm not saying you cannot or should not participate in the event, but that it is an option not to.

 

As for people saying not gifting/trading prices being steep/prizes not being bred etc. isn't fair, and that players should contribute to the community I say this: No body said the player had to trade/gift/breed if they didn't want to. That's just how they play, if they want to leave they can. We have no right to say they can't because they have a prize dragon, and we have no right to say they can't participate because they might leave.

 

For everything to be fair every active member should get a chance to participate, and the winners get to do as they please with their prize just as they can do with every other dragon they catch.

 

(I do want to note that everybody is entitled to their opinion I judge neither, I just wanted to state what I thought)

Edited January 2, 2013 by Bloodyrose13

[mpolo]

I voted for 100 prizes, though I wouldn't really object to any of the options (including making no changes). For me, it's just fun to think that I might win. If (when) I don't win, I'll eventually manage to get one by trading (even if it will almost certainly be about 10th generation…)

[Fuzzbucket]

All I'm saying is: for me, the fun of the raffle was collecting lineages from all the new tinsels. But that's ruined when half the owners leave, like last year.

 

I guess it will be a bit better this year, seeing as getting raffle entries did somewhat require you to go on the forums and be fairly active. But then again that is seen as unfair too.

The fun of the RAFFLE is playing and maybe winning. The stalking and collecting lineages isn't actually the raffle. That's part of scroll building as we do all the time, surely ? By the time you are stalking, the raffle is long over.

 

I want second gens from every spriter's alt. THAT will take a GOOD long while.... But I will never be all disappointed because I can't get them, or because I will never ever have one of my own. (Now, the Old Pink thing is more of an open wound...)

 

I agree with every word Bloodyrose13 has just said.

[schmupti]

#1 well, yes, that's sort of the point. Most people are saying Tinsels are TOO rare, so people actively breeding them would make them more common.

 

[...]

 

#3 if I myself won, I would breed my tinsel for who I wanted, most often for free. What I wouldn't want is for its offspring to go to just anyone. That is why I myself don't support multiclutching, not because I want a blank check.

You misunderstood me. It's the logic flow from 1 to 3 that's coming across badly: newbies might not breed, but previous winners would have too much 'money', but if I win, I totally want that 'money' for myself. I'm not claiming these to be your intentions--simply pointing out that the vibe in this thread still leans less toward "Make it fair" and more toward "Make it for me!"

 

Regarding #3:

"If I won the lottery, I would give half my winnings to charity. Now here's how I'd like to change the lottery rules in ways that just happen to increase my odds of winning..." I need to be able to defend those suggested changes without ever asking other people to give me personally the benefit of the doubt.

 

You defend your objection to multiclutching by asking us to give you, personally, the benefit of the doubt. Your intentions are good, ergo our objections are invalid and go unaddressed. But you and your intentions aren't the point of those objections--you'd have a much stronger case telling us why you think multiclutching prize dragons would negatively affect all of DC.

 

grishiu makes the most compelling argument on that front: it took two years for Tinsels to become common enough that people worried about generations rather than simply getting one. If we accept that prize dragons should be a little rare and valuable (and fun to hunt), then single clutching helps keep us on the demand-side of the ratios.

 

Though grishiu also refutes your point on #1: Tinsels aren't all that rare. It's low-gens that are hard to get, and changing how the holiday contest/raffle is handled to increase the availability of low-gens runs into that risky area of changing the rules to suit a specific gameplay style.

Edited January 2, 2013 by schmupti

[siliconrose]

Ironically, a scroll goal of having a descendent of every prize dragon is only feasible because there are so few. I think fewer people will be interested in pursuing such a goal if there are more CB dragons.

 

I'm not really pro-multiclutch, but I would like to see more winners. A 0.075% (assuming 30 prizes for 40,000 players) chance of winning a prize is depressingly low to me.

 

But fundamentally? I really want one. That's my reason.

[olympe]

Olympe: Then you don't have to participate. Some users, myself included, enjoy the raffle. Just because some users don't like something doesn't mean it should be taken away from the whole community. Some people hate teleport because they can only control 1 egg from their holiday clutches, for example, but does that mean it should be taken away? No. If you don't like something, don't participate in it.

It's not the idea of a raffle that bothers me, but that a very low number of players get something that's so incredibly valuable I'll never be able to get some offspring with a short lineage. And that these people then have the DC-equivalent of a money printing press. This is why I fully support more prizes, if there have to be prizes at all.

 

Also, I enjoy the events - like the decorating of tree, wrath or gingerbread house, as well as the cooking and baking. What I don't quite enjoy is the trading power a very small number of players gets via their prizes.

 

What I'll never support is cutting people out of the raffle due to being here for a shorter time. I can see that rewarding a certain amount of activity - like with this year's event - is a good idea, but things like the tree decorating contest from two years ago, where the most popular people who begged for the most votes won - sorry, that's just totally contrary to what I feel is right. (Yes, I'm well aware that many of the winning trees were truly spectacular - but there was also more than one tree where I went, "WTF - why did they win?")

 

For all the people who don't like the raffle or want to get rid of the prizes don't have to participate, no body is forcing them to. TJ did this so we have something fun to do. Thank you for giving us this oppertunity.

Same as above. I truly enjoy the events - just not he consequence of feeling left out for the better half of a year because I can't get any, and then for the rest of my playing time because I can't get any short-lineaged ones. To me, that's not fun, but depressing. Me not participating in an event won't solve that problem in the least.

 

I could be wrong, but I know a hell of a lot of members stalked all the hatcheries for hours trying to find out all the codes of all the new dragons - and as far as I know only the ones listed on the wiki have been found.

Just because they weren't found doesn't mean they didn't survive. Maybe some CB tinsels were raised on other forums or with the help of friends only? All you'd need is 25 loose friends viewing your dragon daily, and you'd have 175 UVs at the end of the week, twice that at the end of two weeks. More, if they view from multiple places or with the help of proxy servers. You'd probably be able to raise a tinsel all alone by viewing it with proxies. Just saying. (Yes, I know that the use of proxy servers is against the rules - but it's hard, if not impossible to prove that it was you using them to view your own egg/hatchie to adulthood.)

 

Edited for flying off the handle. Again. Sorry.

Edited January 2, 2013 by olympe

[Katykins2]

I did vote for proportional prizes so no one will have unlimited currency by way of 2nd gens.

Edited January 9, 2013 by SockPuppet Strangler

[Kaini]

Spam removed. Edited January 9, 2013 by SockPuppet Strangler

[TheGrox]

Ironically, a scroll goal of having a descendent of every prize dragon is only feasible because there are so few.

Ironically, it's a completely impossible goal now, considering the amount of owners that left without ever breeding and the amount of last years Tinsels we still don't know about.

 

@Olympe: so you are saying that the 12 still 'unknown' prizes were ALL hatched without using fan sites, on other forums or by using proxies? I highly doubt it. More likely someone won, forgot about the egg and it got 0 views and died. TJ wouldn't have protected against that, only sickness (because CB Tinsels will inevitably get a lot of views if put into a hatchery and get sick).

[olympe]

You know, should I win - which I doubt - I will try to get my prize raised without using fansites or click exchange site or forums from other collectibles sites, with my scroll hidden and so forth. Just with the help of people I know who don't play DC.