ANSWERED:Raffle Rethink?

[Fuzzbucket]

The raffle this year is by far the fairest methods of entry that has occurred thus far.  Everyone had to do the exact same thing. You had x number of days to complete a series of tasks at your own pace - if you wanted to do it in one night you could. if you wanted to do it over several days you could. For each task completed you get a ticket. How many tasks you chose to complete was up to you (until the max limit was reached that is).  There was no biased/artistic judgment (or lack of judgement) involved that happened with the tree decorating. There was no being forced to log in every single day for a set number of days to read story chapters.  Why is there this need to try to fix something that is obviously not broken this time around ???

 

Anyone capable of meeting the basic requirements of this year's raffle has EARNED their ticket. It does not matter one whit if they signed up an hour ago, has played the game since day one, doesn't ever breed any dragons, or has won a prize before. They paid for their ticket(s) so they should get their chance to win just like everyone else who earned their ticket(s).  Being outright prejudiced against a specific group of the player base and denying them from being able to enter because they are not deemed "good enough" to enter the contest based on some discriminatory criteria is just plain WRONG.  Don't discriminate because you are afraid and selfish enough to think that they might not choose to share their prize in a manner you seem to think they should. If a person wins, it's their prize to do with as they please - not your place to dictate to them what they should do with it.

 

We also don't know "how many" winners will ultimately be pulled from the hat... so there is no use in crying over how many possible winners their may or may not be or whether that number is fair or not.  It's TJ's choice to make - not ours to force on him.  If he wants 10 winners - that's his choice.  If he wants 1000 winners - that's his choice.

 

Multi-clutches...  Doesn't matter how rare prize dragons are - they are NOT holiday dragons and they should NOT be treated any differently than the majority of other dragons breeds. They should NOT be allowed to multi-clutch.  If you allowed them to multi-clutch because they are "rare", then  people will be crying about wanting gold and silver dragons to multi-clutch due to their rareness.  Don't you see.. rare is supposed to be rare.. stop trying to make them common.

I agree with all this.

 

And RMMC, you were very VERY much missed, in your absence. Just saying.

 

Oh, and also - I am with you on this too - a group of my mates - maybe 15 or so - on two non-dragon forums play VERY enthusiastically, and we all trade among ourselves and click and so on (Olympe, if you win, we will click for you !!!) and cooked and decorated. Only about three of them signed up here, and of those, only one has ever posted !

Edited January 3, 2013 by fuzzbucket

[drabrugon]

I actually voted to nuke the raffle altogether:

1. With the current prize-to-participant ratio, these prizes are literally impossible for the vast majority to get in their lives. It means literally nothing to them other than some random people got some unobtainium that they can only wish to get in a thousand years.

2. Really, the raffles spawned so much heated discussion on the board and is ruining the supposed Christmas spirit, why should it even stay?

3. If being fair, giving people a noticable chance to win and making the prizes valuable can't exist together, it should just go rather than staying to spark more drama.

Maybe we should start to accept the whole raffle as what it really is: an advertising tactic for this site.

 

For us the raffle is fun but for TJ Dragon Cave is business. Looking at it this way we all have to confess that the raffle works fine. We are all after the tickets to take part because we all want to win no matter if we are "new" or "old" players. There is not even a difference if TJ gives out one Prize, 30 or 500, nothing would keep us from wanting to win.

 

I always thought that it would be better for a company to please the regular and loyal customers to guarantee the "survival" of a firm on the market. My first boss had a different strategy: He used to say that it is harder to lose regular customers than getting new ones. So every advertisement tactic he uses was made for new customers to attract and keep hold of them until they feel to some extent loyal to our company. After they get this feeling of being somehow "connected" with us it was very likely that they were not searching for another company to make business with. I hope you all understand what I wanted to say with this example (I know my English is terrible).

 

Regarding this site it would mean that the raffle is a very good advertisement, because it attracts new AND old players. But on the other hand it is even better if it pleases new players more and persuades them to stay if they win. The drama always starts among the old users, but if we think about it the way I try to explain we have to confess that we are still addicted to this game and the possibilty that we leave is small. And on the other hand we have nothing to "give" anymore. All our friends and family members are playing already and we are not able to recruit more. New players still can and that makes the difference when it comes to business.

 

That is why I think we should be happy that not we, the old players, are the ones who are excluded from the raffle.

Edited January 3, 2013 by drabrugon

[Pixxelation]

Please. don't nuke the raffle. I understand a few users dislike prize dragons, but others enjoy the thrill of the raffle, the hope of winning, and watching the new dragons grow up,

[Fuzzbucket]

Maybe we should start to accept the whole raffle as what it really is: an advertising tactic for this site.

I don't see how it advertises.

 

An advertisement is placed all over the place to attract people. If you aren't signed up - you won't know anything about it.

 

It's just fun for any player who wants to take part.

 

Is all.

[skauble]

I don't see how it advertises.

 

An advertisement is placed all over the place to attract people. If you aren't signed up - you won't know anything about it.

 

It's just fun for any player who wants to take part.

 

Is all.

It might not be exactly advertising, but it is a bsuiness move - and a good one. Of course, I don't doubt for one minute that the point is also to have fun (although that's good business, too ), but part of having a webiste like this is getting people to come here, to be active, and then to come back again. And sometimes I think that's important to take into consideration.

 

For instance, I thought sending emails to people about the status of their eggs/hatchlings was a bad idea for a variety of reasons, but a huge one was that it actively gave people a reason to not visit the site. That's not a great idea business-wise. And for this idea I think it's important to keep in mind when we're discussing suggestions because I think that it's necessary to take into account what might draw players in and what might repel them.

[TheGrox]

Okay, so brace yourselves, I guess this is my last attempt to persuade some people to at least consider my viewpoint on things.

 

 

So, I am a collector. For me - and many others - the fun of DC is collecting. That is my playstyle. (And whilst some of you may argue that 'intentionally killing every dragon you have' is a playstyle, I doubt that there are any users who actually do that - much less 12 of them that all won in the raffle last year.)

 

But back to collecting. I enjoy collecting everything, because I can. I collected a tinsel from pretty much every one of the first 31 tinsels - eventually 2nd and 3rd gens from quite a few lines. I have collected 2nd gen tinselfails for lineage purposes, from about 13 different CB Tinsels of the original 31.

 

But, of the 2011 CB tinsels, I hardly have any tinsels at all descended from them, much less low gens and 2nd gen tinselfails that I desire.

 

 

Why is this? Let's look at the facts, shall we? (Because I am basing my opinions on actual facts, not hypothetical playstyles which in reality only a small minority of people use.)

 

Known CB Tinsels of 2010 - 30/30. Of these, as far as I know, over 90% of owners are still active (if not nearer to 100%).

 

Now let's break down the 2011 CB Tinsels:

 

Known CB Gold Tinsels - 2/5. One of these has never been bred. So that means only one of the 5 given out is available. And this single one hasn't successfully produced an egg since May - so we could possibly assume that it's owner is inactive too. That means only two 2nd gen Gold Tinsels exist from all of 2011's known CB's put together.

 

Known CB Silver Tinsels - 8/10. Things are certainly looking better on the Silver front. But oh look, we've got some inactive owners again! One owner only bred twice, with long and messy lineages, and now seems inactive. One owner hasn't bred an egg since May (so I can possibly assume inactive), 1 other owner is definitely inactive. So that makes around 5 out of 10 of CB Silver Tinsel owners are still active. Hooray!

 

Known CB Bronze Tinsels - 8/15. One is definitely inactive. One hasn't bred an egg since April, so I assume is inactive too. That's around 6 out of 15 CB Bronze owners still active.

 

So, we have a grand total of around 11 out of 30 CB Tinsel winners from last year still active and known about. And here lies the problem. People are saying that it is hard to get 2nd gens, and it is, but wouldn't it be easier if more of these owners were still active?

 

So we can all argue that newer member who win Prizes MIGHT stay active, and they COULD, but the statistics show that a large amount don't. It is obvious that more experienced players who win will stay active longer (look at the original 30, most of them were more experienced, and most are still active).

 

This is my point. You can all talk about obscure playstyles that will be affected by any changes, but; I'm sure others share my playstyle too, and a lot of inactive owners RUINS my playstyle - making it impossible for me to collect all that I want to.

 

 

We need to think about the economic implications of Prizes too - you can refer to Grishiu's post on that, as it sums things up better than I could.

 

 

So, my viewpoint on this:

 

- Bronze Trophy limit and/or bonus raffle entries. I am one of the few supporters of this. Go and look back at Pokemonfan13's post about Bronze Trophy limits on the first few pages - It doesn't take that long to get one. And it has been proven that you are less likely to quit a game like this if you have been here longer. But this whole idea seems 'unfair', so I guess it won't happen.

 

- Increasing Prize numbers. This would distribute prizes more, putting less pressure on individual owners, and hopefully a lot more going to active members. But this doesn't solve the problem. Over 2/3 of winners from last year are now inactive or unknown. So going by those figures, give out 90 prizes, and there'll only be 33 still active. Give out 300, and only 110 will stay active. Remember this when thinking about increasing Prizes given out. But yes, I do support a smaller increase in prizes, maybe up to 90 (three times more than last year).

 

- Getting rid of Prizes, and just giving out a load of 'Honourable Mention' type Prizes. This would increase numbers of CB Hollies and whatever, whilst also maybe creating a few nice things like CB Alts, for example. But it would not create such money-making machines that Prizes are, which I know some people object to (I don't care what people do with their Prizes).

 

 

You're all about to say "So what, it's their dragon, their choice." But the problem with giving them to newbies is, most newbies probably don't know how much their prize is worth. They might think they've just been chucked another old dragon to sit on their little scroll. That is not going to make them want to stay active, or come back if they leave. Giving newbies prizes is an ineffective way of keeping them active, as the statistics show.

 

 

And some of you will be reaching to click that quote button - but please don't just pick out a sentence and argue against that, twist my words and turn them against me, or comment on how I said something slightly wrong. You all know what I mean, even if I don't convey it as 'perfectly' as all of you. If you're going to argue, argue with the general arguments I have put forward, not my wording of them.

Edited January 3, 2013 by TheGrox

[Fuzzbucket]

It might not be exactly advertising, but it is a bsuiness move - and a good one.  Of course, I don't doubt for one minute that the point is also to have fun (although that's good business, too  ), but part of having a webiste like this is getting people to come here, to be active, and then to come back again.  And sometimes I think that's important to take into consideration.

 

For instance, I thought sending emails to people about the status of their eggs/hatchlings was a bad idea for a variety of reasons, but a huge one was that it actively gave people a reason to not visit the site.  That's not a great idea business-wise.  And for this idea I think it's important to keep in mind when we're discussing suggestions because I think that it's necessary to take into account what might draw players in and what might repel them.

Emails about egg status ?? Too right; I'd have QUIT !

 

Business move - yes. Advert - no. I agree.

 

ETA @Grox:

 

Okay, so brace yourselves, I guess this is my last attempt to persuade some people to at least consider my viewpoint on things.

 

I have considered your viewpoint all along !

I just - don't agree with you !

 

(Who on EARTH has ever quit because they couldn't have a CB - or 2nd gen - tin, BTW ?)

 

And there is no way this will change a huge lot, as you cannot force even an active player to breed.

 

A raffle is inclusive. What you are suggesting is excluding people. Of the two - one is more likely to generate enthusiasm than the other.

Edited January 3, 2013 by fuzzbucket

[TheGrox]

Considering the amount of new players that quit and the amount of tinsels that remain unknown from last year, it seems it wasn't that great of a 'business move'.

 

In fact, driving old players nearly to the point of quitting because there is no way to get what they want, that isn't a great 'business move', either.

 

 

@fuzzbucket: I was inactive for months a year or so ago, because I was bored with the game - because I couldn't get anything else I wanted. So it's not such a silly suggestion. (Obviously, I came back, new dragons were released and I got back into the game )

Edited January 3, 2013 by TheGrox

[KageSora]

Just to point out, though, that just because they haven't bred their Tinsel doesn't mean they're not active. Unless you mean you've checked every dragon on their scroll, and none of them have matured or bred since then. Since they could very well have just stopped collecting dragons themselves, or they could have stopped breeding the Tinsel or they could have just had zero luck getting an egg out of it, especially if they partner them with rare dragons or Frills/Holidays.

[PolarVortex]

Grox, I totally get where you are coming from (I am a collector too) but you're still essentially arguing that your play style is more important, or should hold more weight, than anybody else's. Look at it another way, you should feel lucky that your play style is even possible with the prize dragons! Let's look at some other play styles...

 

People who collect CBs of every dragon - pretty much SOL since the chance of winning is so incredibly miniscule

 

People who breed pretty EG checker lineages - Not impossible with prize dragons, but very, very impractical and difficult

 

People who only collect PBs - Also not possible with prizes

 

People who aren't on the forums and hunt the AP - Eventually the prizes were plentiful enough that you could find them in the AP, but maybe not the best lineage (if you cared about that sort of thing, again, different play styles)

 

People who want one of each sprite - No problem! Got them all eventually!

 

People who only collect dragons whose sprites they like - well, it depends if they like the prizes or not

 

But anyway, you get my point. Most of us (I'm guessing) play with some combination of the above styles. These are just a few other examples of people who are inconvenienced (or not) by the current system. Some may even feel like the prizes "ruin" their game altogether (CB collectors, for example). In my opinion, the only way to make more people's play styles practical or even possible is to make the prize dragons substantially more plentiful. That should really be the goal of any potential changes... how can we improve the system for the most players.

[Draikinator]

The statistics are a good point.

Perhaps, rather than excluding new players, add a tier system, so that, say, 1 gold tinsel goes ot a gold trophy owner, 1 goes to a silver trophy owner, 1 goes to a bronze trophy owner, 1 goes to a newbie and 1 is random.

Then it would make sure that the prizes were spread out well over the range of players without excluding anyone, because evryone still has a fair chance of winning.

 

//however I still unabashedly support upping the number released. The poulation of players has increased btu there's still only 30 prizes. If anything is unfair, that's unfair.

Edited January 3, 2013 by Draikinator

[TheGrox]

Just to point out, though, that just because they haven't bred their Tinsel doesn't mean they're not active.  Unless you mean you've checked every dragon on their scroll, and none of them have matured or bred since then.  Since they could very well have just stopped collecting dragons themselves, or they could have stopped breeding the Tinsel or they could have just had zero luck getting an egg out of it, especially if they partner them with rare dragons or Frills/Holidays.

I know, I completely agree. That's why I only said some of them I "assume" to be inactive. Seeing as most of them breed with common partners, I would have expected at least common eggs by now. I wouldn't expect a Tinsel owner to just not breed their tinsel either - though it's possible. The ones I said are definitely inactive are ones I know for sure are, though.

 

 

Grox, I totally get where you are coming from (I am a collector too) but you're still essentially arguing that your play style is more important, or should hold more weight, than anybody else's. Look at it another way, you should feel lucky that your play style is even possible with the prize dragons!

I know what you're saying, and I agree. =) But I'm guessing that majority of people have a combination of the playstyles you mentioned, and with the current system, a lot of playstyles are hard or simply impossible.

 

I only went big on the playstyles argument because so many others have said; 'only letting people with bronze trophy get into the raffle ruins their playstyle', or 'the winners might have a playstyle to kill every dragon they get.' I was trying to give an example of someone with a sort of typical playstyle...

 

 

Draikinator's idea is actually quite interesting, making sure there is an even spread amongst different trophy level players - I like it.

Edited January 3, 2013 by TheGrox

[DarkVioletCloud]

Allow me to butt in here and then be forgotten in the flurry of raffle excitement...

 

I think that the raffle is perfectly fine the way it is (except for a point that I will express later). I feel that, if there wasn't so much negativity it made, the raffle itself kind of promotes a bit of friendly competition. The way I see it is, "It'll be nice if I win, but I don't really care since I can always get a horribly-lineaged, inbred offspring." This year's raffle also brought some fun with it. The holiday cooking was so fun, and having the gingerbread decorating on Christmas after you baked it? Very clever! (Personally I want the cooking open again. No raffle, I just want more recipes!)

 

This question always confused me: Why is it that people want these dragons? Not the Tinsels, not these mysterious new ones, but the dragons in general? An even more baffling question is, "What do you guys value the prize dragon more?" I think at the heart of it, people just want to win for the sake of winning. I admit, I would like to win this year, because it's a new dragon! And I'd win!

 

So I think I sidetracked a lot, but my point is, I think you guys just want to win because you're winning, and some want to breed and spread the love of the new dragons or to be nice.

 

But... I'd like a better chance at winning, like a ton of people do. I don't want people to be excluded. I joined Dragon Cave last year in November and I was learning fast at it, thanks to the person who introduced me to it, but when Christmastime came around, I didn't care because I didn't understand. Now I understand, and I think the cooking got me excited over it, so I'm hoping for another chance at winning. But keeping people out isn't fair. (I realize people can argue about this for eternity...) I think that the only way to keep it fair is to increase the dragons being handed out, like others said.

 

So I'm basically in support of more prizes.

Edited January 10, 2013 by SockPuppet Strangler

[drabrugon]

It might not be exactly advertising, but it is a bsuiness move - and a good one. Of course, I don't doubt for one minute that the point is also to have fun (although that's good business, too ), but part of having a webiste like this is getting people to come here, to be active, and then to come back again. And sometimes I think that's important to take into consideration.

Business move is more what I wanted to say tham advertisement. I am sorry, sometimes I do not have the right words in English to say what I mean.

 

I am aware of the fun the raffle brings with it. But for TJ this site is still business and we have to take that into account in a discussion like this.

 

Even if the Prizes of last year would all have died, it would be still a business move - the raffle was successful. Of course most players would have been even more upset, but I do not think that the surviving of the Tinsels is the main focus.

 

Personally I do not understand why somebody would think about quitting over a dragon that died but was not his/her own. To me this is only a pretended argument.

[KageSora]

I am dead against you only being able to get X dragon depending on you trophy level. That's just INSANELY unfair.

[Draikinator]

I am dead against you only being able to get X dragon depending on you trophy level.  That's just INSANELY unfair.

I would argue it would be more fair. What if all five top prizes went to gold trophy members, or if all ten silvers went to no trophy accounts? That would feel biased and unfair.

 

//edit

also, Drabrugon, I understood your meaning. It raises a very good point and one we have to take into consideration- our fun isn't the only factor here, TJ has to maintain the site somehow.

Also, people, don't pick apart the semantics of someone's post, especially if they have English as a second language. Spirit not word of the law here peeps.. *is an ESL teacher in China*

 

Edited January 3, 2013 by Draikinator

[Fuzzbucket]

I am dead against you only being able to get X dragon depending on you trophy level.  That's just INSANELY unfair.

Yis me too. RANDOM out of a HAT is the only totally FAIR way.

 

Personally I do not understand why somebody would think about quitting over a dragon that died but was not his/her own. To me this is only a pretended argument.

 

This too.

 

Sure I want to win. But I shall carry on playing - even though I can never get the dragon I most want, or CBs of holidays that occurred before I arrived, and the rest.

 

And I do agree with DarkVioletCloud:

Edited January 10, 2013 by SockPuppet Strangler

[RainDear]

When DC was first created TJ considered all dragons created equal. If you got a Gold Dragon, it didn't matter whether you caught it in the cave or the AP, you had a Gold Dragon. Bred dragons showed their parents, but no more of their lineage than that. Inbreeding and lineages were not considered to matter. It is players that added the ideas of lineages, PBs, Even Gens, other lineage patterns, and inbreeding-none of that was part of the original concept. So, if you have Tinsels, by that criteria, they are just the same as the CB, Prize dragons. It is only personal taste that makes them any different, not the game. Everyone in the game has an opportunity to get all the Tinsels they want, no one is limited.

 

I don't often breed. I usually breed in an attempt to get something I can trade for a dragon I want-CB Gold, CB Silver, a new release dragon I am having trouble catching for myself, or a particular color Stripe I need(want) more of. I also breed if I have a request for the offspring of one of my dragons. I have been breeding one of my Tinsels for a request most of last year. He has parented 3 Tinselfails-one June 6, one June 21, and the last on Jan 1. Someone who was breeding with a rare or holiday dragon would likely have had worse luck.

 

Even though I have been playing since Nov of 2008 and would qualify to win the raffle by your new rules, I am not someone you seem to think worthy of winning, because I would likely only breed a Prize often enough to use it to trade (1:1) for things I still want, then breed it for people I want to gift to, then likely not breed it again, or at least not often.

 

Since day 1, I have not understood this thread, the raffle has to be changed because you have been unable to get the Tinsels you wanted from last year's winners? Sorry, I do not understand, and never will. The raffle is fair, everyone has a chance to get as many Prize dragons as they want, as far as I can see, that is all that can be required of it.

 

EDIT:The kitten running across my keyboard is no help to my typing, at all.

Edited January 3, 2013 by raindear

[olympe]

Okay, so brace yourselves, I guess this is my last attempt to persuade some people to at least consider my viewpoint on things.

Believe it or not, I have considered your viewpoint all along. I just don't see things your way.

 

But back to collecting. I enjoy collecting everything, because I can. I collected a tinsel from pretty much every one of the first 31 tinsels - eventually 2nd and 3rd gens from quite a few lines. I have collected 2nd gen tinselfails for lineage purposes, from about 13 different CB Tinsels of the original 31.

 

But, of the 2011 CB tinsels, I hardly have any tinsels at all descended from them, much less low gens and 2nd gen tinselfails that I desire.

So what? DC is not about giving all users what they want. Sure, you can try, but it's not up to DC to make sure you succeed. Just look at retired breeds, alt sweetlings or the two variations of snow angels you'll never be able to have on your scroll. Or look at the joke eggs, and <3, or the dragonpancakes. You'll never have them on your scroll, either. So why should prize dragons be any different?

 

So, we have a grand total of around 11 out of 30 CB Tinsel winners from last year still active and known about. And here lies the problem. People are saying that it is hard to get 2nd gens, and it is, but wouldn't it be easier if more of these owners were still active?

It would also be easier if there were more CB tinsels, although this would make it harder to get 2nd gens from all CBs. In either case, multi-clutches would help, too.

 

This is my point. You can all talk about obscure playstyles that will be affected by any changes, but; I'm sure others share my playstyle too, and a lot of inactive owners RUINS my playstyle - making it impossible for me to collect all that I want to.

So, what you're saying is that other people need to be taken out of the raffle so your superior playstyle is easier to play? Let me reiterate, DC is not about giving everybody what they want. Never has been, never will be. DC is about giving everybody the option to play as they want, as long as they stay within the rules - not ensuring everybody reaches their scroll goals.

 

Bronze Trophy limit and/or bonus raffle entries. I am one of the few supporters of this. Go and look back at Pokemonfan13's post about Bronze Trophy limits on the first few pages - It doesn't take that long to get one. And it has been proven that you are less likely to quit a game like this if you have been here longer. But this whole idea seems 'unfair', so I guess it won't happen.

If there had been a raffle three years ago, I would have been excluded because I might have left - which I didn't. I'm still around, still actively playing. What right do your preferences have to keep me out of a game of chance? That's exactly what the now new players might ask you in a year or two or three. In such a context, the reason, "Because you might have left," is very weak indeed.

 

Increasing Prize numbers. This would distribute prizes more, putting less pressure on individual owners, and hopefully a lot more going to active members.

I agree with your first two points, but not the third. Whether they go to members that stay active or not is totally irrelevant to me. People who have been around for years sometimes have real life happen, and they need to take a long hiatus from DC. Would you want to exclude them because they had to move to some small town in Africa with no internet whatsoever for their job? Or because they volunteered for charity work or something like Doctors Without Borders? Seriously?

 

Getting rid of Prizes, and just giving out a load of 'Honourable Mention' type Prizes. This would increase numbers of CB Hollies and whatever, whilst also maybe creating a few nice things like CB Alts, for example. But it would not create such money-making machines that Prizes are, which I know some people object to (I don't care what people do with their Prizes).

I could live with that, actually.

 

Perhaps, rather than excluding new players, add a tier system, so that, say, 1 gold tinsel goes ot a gold trophy owner, 1 goes to a silver trophy owner, 1 goes to a bronze trophy owner, 1 goes to a newbie and 1 is random.

WTF? Most active players will be either gold trophy owners or have no trophy yet. Every other trophy is just a stage to pass through, and bronze will probably be the rarest trophy. Would you really want to give some players an advantage over others - whether the advantage would go to gold trophy owners (which I seriously doubt), silver trophy owners (unlikely) or bronze trophy owners (very likely)?

 

This question always confused me: Why is it that people want these dragons?

Different reason. Getting one step closer to their scroll goals. Getting a thousand steps closer to their scroll goals by trading the offspring. Just for the sake of winning. Because they like having a VIP dragon and feeling special about it. Edited January 3, 2013 by olympe

[Draikinator]

I mean, honestly though, there's literally no way for a raffle ot be fair anyway.

 

Everyone did the exact same thing. We all put the exact same amount of effort in. But only a few people are going to be rewarded for their effort. Everyone else will just have to bite their knuckles and try again next year.

 

Fairness isn't even in the equation, it's about making the game as enjoyable for everyone as it can be.

 

Olympe, whle I agree with a lot of what you said, getting really upset because of the playstyle bit of grox's post is sort of silly- they said like directly afterward it was a direct resposne to that fact that people are using 'hey it's their playstyle' as an argument. Which is a fair point. Not everyone playstyle's can be satisfied.

 

I still think almost every issue here would be solved by more prizes.

 

 

QUOTE (Draikinator)

Perhaps, rather than excluding new players, add a tier system, so that, say, 1 gold tinsel goes ot a gold trophy owner, 1 goes to a silver trophy owner, 1 goes to a bronze trophy owner, 1 goes to a newbie and 1 is random.

WTF? Most active players will be either gold trophy owners or have no trophy yet. Every other trophy is just a stage to pass through, and bronze will probably be the rarest trophy. Would you really want to give some players an advantage over others - whether the advantage would go to gold trophy owners (which I seriously doubt), silver trophy owners (unlikely) or bronze trophy owners (very likely)?

 

First of all, calm down.

Secondly, I thought activity wasn't important?

Edited January 3, 2013 by Draikinator

[Fuzzbucket]

I mean, honestly though, there's literally no way for a raffle to be fair anyway.

 

Everyone did the exact same thing. We all put the exact same amount of effort in. But only a few people are going to be rewarded for their effort. Everyone else will just have to bite their knuckles and try again next year.

Yes there is. A raffle is as fair is it gets. A raffle is open to everyone who "buys" (in this case gets, by cooking) a ticket.

 

The draw is made at random.

 

That is TOTALLY fair. In what way isn't it ? I suppose only in that not everyone gets a prize - well, that is what a draw is about. Is a lottery fair ? A tombola at the fairground ? Buying chances to win a box of chocolates ?

 

The objections are basically coming from people who mind what happens AFTERWARDS, in effect. Because some people aren't happy with prizes going to particular groups of people - people who won't do what they want to see done with the prizes - they want that group of people excluded. People who don't breed. People who let prizes die, people who leave right after winning, people who breed what they see as "messy" lineages with them. Well, if I win a box of chocolates and flush them down the toilet - does that make it unfair that I won them ? Is it somehow unfair that I paid for a ticket to to to win them ?

 

No.

 

You may think it isn't fair that I didn't distribute them between you all instead - but it was my absolute right to enter and then to flush them. My money (cooking) is as good as anyone's. My motivation is my own. And that is my right.

 

The raffle isn't the issue - except in terms of the number of prizes awarded. It is people wanting it to fit their preferred playstyle that is the issue.

 

But I do think prizes should be increased in proportion to the number of entries (not players, entries.) If TJ were agreeable - and only if - to make them run at x% of entries

Edited January 3, 2013 by fuzzbucket

[olympe]

I think what most of us can agree on is to increase the number of prizes substantially. At least if the poll is any indication. Maybe we should get a new poll where options like "do away with the raffle/with prizes" and "no changes" and "multiclutching" are not included, but get more options on the amount of prizes distributed?

 

First of all, we should decide whether we want a set number of prizes (like 100 every year), or whether we'd prefer a set ratio (like 1%) of active players, active being defined as doing what is required to join the raffle.

 

Once that is set, we can decide which kind of increase the majority prefers.

[Rally Vincent]

and a lot of inactive owners RUINS my playstyle - making it impossible for me to collect all that I want to.

And that is what all this suggestion is about - to heighten one's own chances to get something one wants on the expense of others. It isn't (and never was) about the good of the memberbase of DC (that is impossible by definition if a suggestion excludes parts of the memberbase).

 

 

[Fuzzbucket]

And that is what all this suggestion is about - to heighten one's own chances to get something one wants on the expense of others. It isn't (and never was) about the good of the memberbase of DC (that is impossible by definition if a suggestion excludes parts of the memberbase).

Yes.

 

The raffle isn't the issue - except in terms of the number of prizes awarded. It is people wanting it to fit their preferred playstyle that is the issue.

 

I don't see how you can have a "set number of prizes", olympe. If the player base doubles or triples, we will just be back here in no time.

[olympe]

That's why I, personally, wouldn't vote for set numbers. However, I can see that many people would.