ANSWERED:Raffle Rethink?

[Mistress of Whispers]

Spam removed. Edited January 9, 2013 by SockPuppet Strangler

[TheGrox]

A 2nd gen for that many CB Silvers is just one instance. Some go for much less nowadays, you know. As I said, I've never caught a CB metal, but I have 2nd gens. Some owners give the things away.

 

And maybe, if more experienced players won (as I think PF13 pointed out earlier), they wouldn't try to trade them for so much, because they already have everything they want. Which brings me back to the original bronze trophy limits and extra entries for older players and whatever. But of course everyone hates that idea. -.-

Edited January 2, 2013 by TheGrox

[drabrugon]

I think it's more like trading would even out.  They'd still be in high demand, but not the massive demand they were.  I remember offering 5 CB Silvers for a 2nd gen once, and that got no interest.  And I can honestly say that if I hadn't been looking for a 2nd gen I wouldn't have bothered catching all of those Silvers, which means that other people would have had a chance at them.  I just think that the Tinsels, as fun as they are, created a bit too much of an imbalance.

This!

 

skauble's example shows how incredible rare 2nd gns are. I do not know how much time you all need to catch 5 CB Metallics, but I know that it would take me (and many others) ages. I think Prizes shouldn't be that rare. Maybe I am speaking for the minority here, but there are also people who can't hunt in the Cave all day because of work or studies.

 

This brings up the positive argument of multi-clutches again. Some people here have 5 or more 2nd gens already due to good catching skills or connections on the forums. I think for a player that is not using the forums it is impossible to ever get one 2nd gen. Getting more than one egg from breeding would help those people a lot.

 

 

To your point, Grox: I do not know for what 2nd gen Tinsels are going, but I think the amount skauble named is realistic.

Edited January 2, 2013 by drabrugon

[TheGrox]

I think for a player that is not using the forums it is impossible to ever get one 2nd gen. Getting more than one egg from breeding would help those people a lot.

It is near impossible for someone who doesn't use the forums to get, for example, a 2nd gen Gold though. Unless they catch a CB and breed one for themselves, which is hard in itself. This is why I prefer the fertility causing multiclutching suggestion in TJ's thread over just prizes multiclutching.

 

To your point, Grox: I do not know for what 2nd gen Tinsels are going, but I think the amount skauble named is realistic.

No, it is not. Around now, they go for a single CB Metal, most often much less than even that. That was a more realistic price for when Tinsels were first released,.

Edited January 2, 2013 by TheGrox

[schmupti]

I know, but everyone is arguing that multiclutching distributes the population. But it does no good if it distributes them to random players who don't breed them, and not to the players who actually want low gens.

Your phrasing here, 'does no good', is part of the problem I'm having, because neither the dragons nor their offspring belong to the community. We have no inherent right to those eggs; how the user plays, if they breed or not, is up to their individual game style.

 

[Edited to clarify: I know 'do no good' is in relation to distributing the population. But it seems to reflect a general sense that keeps coming up in this discussion too, which is why it irks me.]

 

There is, again, a sense that some users are more worthy than others, and a prize is wasted if it goes to someone who might not sell those eggs off--and at the same time, that it's worse if it goes to someone who might sell them off at a higher price than we'd like.

 

To quote Rally Vincent:

I like how there were thoughts of excluding former winners because Prize Dragons are cash machines and then insisting of keeping Prize dragons rare because winners want to cash in.  [...] So, cashing in is okay when winning oneself, but disgusting that former winners did it.

That's how this reads at times:

- #1: we need limited eligibility so that only people who will actively breed them get them.

- #2: but we can't have previous winners winning again, because that's handing them a blank check.

- #3: but we can't have multiclutches, because if I win, I want a blank check. Why should those strangers get a free 2nd gen? We don't even know if they'll breed it!

Edited January 2, 2013 by schmupti

[drabrugon]

It is near impossible for someone who doesn't use the forums to get, for example, a 2nd gen Gold though. Unless they catch a CB and breed one for themselves, which is hard in itself. This is why I prefer the fertility causing multiclutching suggestion in TJ's thread over just prizes multiclutching.

But the multiclutching option also seems to be important here because it has come up more than once (and honestly, do you really believe that somebody would use the BSA one on a CB Tinsel? Most people here want them to be rare).

 

It is the same with the bronze-trophy-argument that is a "no" for me and many others.

Edited January 2, 2013 by drabrugon

[TheGrox]

And honestly, do you really believe that somebody would use the BSA one on a CB Tinsel? Most people here want them to be rare.

I thought most people here (in this thread at least) wanted them common .

 

But yes, people would use a BSA that created multiclutches on their CB Tinsel. Why? Because it would mean a higher chance of getting a tinsel egg as one of the clutch, rather than just a tinselfail. That's the whole reason why people would use such a BSA on anything.

 

 

That's how this reads at times:

- #1: we need limited eligibility so that only people who will actively breed them get them.

- #2: but we can't have previous winners winning again, because that's handing them a blank check.

- #3: but we can't have multiclutches, because if I win, I want a blank check. Why should those strangers get a free 2nd gen? We don't even know if they'll breed it!

#1 well, yes, that's sort of the point. Most people are saying Tinsels are TOO rare, so people actively breeding them would make them more common.

 

#2 I personally don't think we should exclude previous winners, but that's just my opinion. The only thing we could do is give them a HM if they won, if people aren't happy with them having 2 prizes.

 

#3 if I myself won, I would breed my tinsel for who I wanted, most often for free. What I wouldn't want is for its offspring to go to just anyone. That is why I myself don't support multiclutching, not because I want a blank check.

Edited January 2, 2013 by TheGrox

[drabrugon]

I thought most people here (in this thread at least) wanted them common .

 

But yes, people would use a BSA that created multiclutches on their CB Tinsel. Why? Because it would mean a higher chance of getting a tinsel egg as one of the clutch, rather than just a tinselfail. That's the whole reason why people would use such a BSA on anything.

I doubt that. The fear of having to share with other players will keep them from using this BSA. That is what is said here about multi-clutches. What is one time getting no egg against 3 eggs that I can not keep and that maybe go to players who do not want to breed them?!

 

This discussion goes round in circles.

Edited January 2, 2013 by drabrugon

[Fuzzbucket]

Your phrasing here, 'does no good', is part of the problem I'm having, because neither the dragons nor their offspring belong to the community. We have no inherent right to those eggs; how the user plays, if they breed or not, is up to their individual game style.

 

[Edited to clarify: I know 'do no good' is in relation to distributing the population. But it seems to reflect a general sense that keeps coming up in this discussion too, which is why it irks me.]

 

There is, again, a sense that some users are more worthy than others, and a prize is wasted if it goes to someone who might not sell those eggs off--and at the same time, that it's worse if it goes to someone who might sell them off at a higher price than we'd like.

 

To quote Rally Vincent:That's how this reads at times:

- #1: we need limited eligibility so that only people who will actively breed them get them.

- #2: but we can't have previous winners winning again, because that's handing them a blank check.

- #3: but we can't have multiclutches, because if I win, I want a blank check. Why should those strangers get a free 2nd gen? We don't even know if they'll breed it!

^this^

 

And I don't "want" them common. However they happen is fine with me - but I do think there need to be more prizes in the first place - and that there should be no restrictions on who can enter. After that, Dragon Nature can take its course.

 

That said - I caught both my CB silvers SINCE the biomes on a not great connection. And I would have a gold except that I was so surprised to see it that I refreshed in case I was wrong - it was still there - but that refresh lost it to me

 

*is a bleeding eejit*

[TheGrox]

I doubt that. The fear of having to share with other players will keep them from using this BSA. That is what is said here about multi-clutches. What is one time getting no egg against 3 eggs that I can not keep and that maybe go to players who do not want to breed them?!

Some would use a BSA, some wouldn't. It is THEIR choice. It's just down to personal preference - not everyone in this game is greedy and wouldn't want to give away prize offspring to people you know. Making ALL prizes multiclutch is no longer their choice. That's why I prefer an optional BSA.

[xeyla]

I voted for "Yes, an increase based on a proportion of entries". I do agree the userbase has expanded, and the prizes need to be adjusted for that. But I think scrolls that are inactive should not be included.

[drabrugon]

Spam removed. Edited January 9, 2013 by SockPuppet Strangler

[Coronaviridae]

Just so I can properly characterize my argument (again):

 

I don't care about the availability of the prize dragons particularly. I do care about the argument that they somehow belong to the entire community, therefore we need to restrict their availability to ... make them more available.

 

If we ARE concerned with making them more available, I think multiclutching or increasing the numbers of prizes awarded would do that. I don't think that other solutions are at all fair.

[StormWizard212]

I've been pretty busy the past few days so I haven't really gotten a chance to read the past few pages, but last time I checked, there was a discussion going about increasing the number of prizes. Since a poll has now gone up I'm going to go ahead and assume that's still more or less on the table, so here's my opinion:

 

I'd LOVE for there to be more CB prizes handed out. The two reasons being that, 1. it'd give more people the opportunity to win and thus maybe feel more 'fair', and 2. it would mean that the winners wouldn't get hounded for offspring the way the current ones do.

[MedievalMystic]

Your phrasing here, 'does no good', is part of the problem I'm having, because neither the dragons nor their offspring belong to the community. We have no inherent right to those eggs; how the user plays, if they breed or not, is up to their individual game style.

 

[Edited to clarify: I know 'do no good' is in relation to distributing the population. But it seems to reflect a general sense that keeps coming up in this discussion too, which is why it irks me.]

 

There is, again, a sense that some users are more worthy than others, and a prize is wasted if it goes to someone who might not sell those eggs off--and at the same time, that it's worse if it goes to someone who might sell them off at a higher price than we'd like.

 

Indeed. This.

[Wookieinmashoo]

I don't think increasing the amount of CB dragons is going to make them any less desirable or worthy. They will still be in demand, people will want one from every lineage (there are plenty of people who actually keep track of which owners are active) and some people will still be trading CB metals for the second gens. It will just make things easier on people so that 5 CB silver offer won't get passed up. That's ridiculous that such an offer was ignored and it was probably because that every owner either had a list too long or already had a ton of CB silvers from other offers. Increasing the amount will just make it not impossible to get a second gen if someone wants one.

 

What I've liked about DC is that not much effort has to be put into getting the things you want. Yes, CB metals are difficult to get, but you don't have to sit for days getting several to trade for one other dragon.

[Rally Vincent]

The inherent problem to this thread is that the discussion still centers around economy. Either the offspring can be acquired easily - then of course anyboby also can acquire them easily, so lesser "trade value". Or they are worth something in trade, which means in reverse that they are not as easy to abtain to "get something out of them". You can't have both.

 

Focusing on the economy leaves out everyone who wants a higher chance for a CB not for trading purposes, but for getting a CB as value in itself. There may be other reasons to give out more CB (e.g. more Prize x Other Dragon combinations available at the same time for folks who want to do lineages).

 

Just FYI, I voted for a flat out 100. In my eyes, it's the best compromise.

[Fuzzbucket]

The inherent problem to this thread is that the discussion still centers around economy. Either the offspring can be acquired easily - then of course anyboby also can acquire them easily, so lesser "trade value". Or they are worth something in trade, which means in reverse that they are not as easy to abtain to "get something out of them". You can't have both.

 

Focusing on the economy leaves out everyone who wants a higher chance for a CB not for trading purposes, but for getting a CB as value in itself. There may be other reasons to give out more CB (e.g. more Prize x Other Dragon combinations available at the same time for folks who want to do lineages).

YES. Exactly.

 

Prizes aren't about the economy. IMNVHO.

[RainDear]

I have not won a Tinsel Dragon, nor have I been lucky enough to catch a low gen. The lowest gen I was gifted is 4th gen.

 

I have absolutely no interest in:

 

Making sure winners are people who continue to play.

Making sure winners are people who will breed/gift/appreciate their prize.

 

or, apparently any of the other things some seem to want some "guarantee" of.

 

My only interest is that the giveaway is fair. In my opinion, to limit the entrants for any reason would not be fair. I would support more prizes if it seems warranted due to an increase in active players. Since the raffle is fair, there is no other change I would favor.

 

 

[Fuzzbucket]

I voted for "Yes, an increase based on a proportion of entries". I do agree the userbase has expanded, and the prizes need to be adjusted for that. But I think scrolls that are inactive should not be included.

Inactive scrolls are - inactive. So they weren't there and didn't do the cooking

 

No activity - they got no entries. No problemo !!!

[xeyla]

Inactive scrolls are - inactive. So they weren't there and didn't do the cooking

 

No activity - they got no entries. No problemo !!!

well, that was a brainfart if I ever had one

 

[Fuzzbucket]

well, that was a brainfart if I ever had one

I feel so - intelligent all of a sudden !!! Thanks for that - cheered me up heaps !

[Rhynn Collins]

I don't see any need to change the way the raffle works. Everyone who has done the work has an equal chance of getting one - that's as fair as it gets. What happens with the actual prizes is up to the people getting them. Would I be annoyed if one of the new people I brought to DC would get one while I, having been here for years, don't? Sure, but that doesn't make it unfair. And if they don't want to breed them, then that's completely up to them. Their dragons, not the community - the community isn't entitled to its offspring.

[TheGrox]

Okay, so (to everyone): If the point of the raffle is not to reward people for skill (which it obviously doesn't), nor to reward people for being here for a while and being active (which it clearly doesn't either), nor to get a new special prize dragon into the breeding pool (because everyone seems to think it doesn't matter if they breed or not), then tell me, What is the point of the raffle?

 

Because we all seem to have different opinions on this, and that's sort of the problem.

Edited January 2, 2013 by TheGrox

[Rhynn Collins]

The point of a raffle is the same as that of a lottery: to win stuff. To be really, really, really lucky after having done something (in this case, make recipes. With a lottery, it's buying a ticket).