ANSWERED:Raffle Rethink?

[Dolphinsong]

Reword the last choice so its not rude sounding.

[Xylene]

As for contests....

I feel that we should never do something like the tree decorating contest. I didn't know about this site yet, but from what people are saying it sounds awful. I think stuff like the cooking is perfect.

 

Edit: By the way TheGrox I remember you saying something about a poll, I'd like a poll.

Agreed, Fuzzzzj. Friendly reminder that the average scores for trees was around 3 on a scale of 1-10, with winning trees having at least a 7. That's certainly proof of people downvoting every other tree in the hopes that theirs will get a high score, and even if we weren't allowed to post "Vote for my tree!" it did happen.

 

As far as the ideas between multi-clutches and increased prizes go, I think the only reasonable one if we HAVE to choose is increased prizes. (to a max of 90. 15 gold, 30 silver, 45 bronze. That's already tripling what was given out in the 2010 raffle, so I expect we'd break the 'economy' in a year instead of two. And TJ never did say how many prizes would be given out, so I don't know if there's a point in saying it should be increased.)

 

Multi-clutches do seem like a good way to split the offspring between traders and hunters, but is there a way to make only the CBs produce multi-clutches, or are we just waiting for the number of prizes to increase exponentially? I can guarantee that multi-clutches for every prize offspring's offspring would be a bad idea and yes, it would flood the cave. Then again, multi-clutches for the CBs only would make 2nd gens 'too common', wouldn't it?

 

TL;DR, I kind of think increasing prize dragons or implementing multi-clutches is a bad idea.

Grox, I think your poll should replace the last one with "This is giving me a headache, please take it all away."

[Walker]

I'm not for multiclutches on prize dragons. Once again, I think it's too close to dictating to a winner how they should play the game. It makes no sense for only one breed to have multiclutches all year round while others doesn't.

 

For increasing the number of prizes given out, yes. But not forcing people to give up offspring through multiclutches.

Edited January 2, 2013 by Walker

[TheGrox]

Reword the last choice so its not rude sounding.

Sorry, I was being a bit sarcastic with the last choice - I wasn't going to word it like that in the actual poll, honest .

 

I also agree with Walker about the multiclutching. I made a similar point earlier :3

Edited January 2, 2013 by TheGrox

[fuzzzzj]

Whoops sorry Grox (btw you guys can call me fuzz).

I meant a poll on just the general idea of change but your idea of the poll is really good.

Perhaps you could add one thing though? (Not sure if I just suggested this but if it was just me then ignore this.)

 

-Yes, an increase based on a porportion of the current entries.

 

Edited for grammer fail .

Edited January 2, 2013 by fuzzzzj

[rubyshoes]

I do wish people would stop calling me TheGrox and just call me Grox /random

 

Anyway, a poll you say? A poll on what though? There are so many ideas flying around this thread... I guess you mean a poll on multiclutching or increasing the number of prizes? Maybe like so:

 

Poll: Should we increase prizes given out?

- Yes, a large increase - up to 500 prizes.

- Yes, a small increase, about 100 prizes.

- No, just make prizes multiclutch.

- No, keep numbers the same as last year.

- No, get rid of prizes altogether, just keep HM prizes.

- No, get rid of the raffle altogether.

 

Any changes before I add the poll?

There was also the ones who wanted both an increase in prize numbers and multiclutches - not sure if you wanted to put that in as an option or not.

 

 

No. I'm not saying I support this, just that it was what some wanted.

[TheGrox]

Okay, edited my previous post with the things fuzz and ruby said. Seems like a lot of options (though we can apparently have polls with up to 30 options, so keep the options coming if you really want ).

 

Edit: I'll wait a few hours in case anyone else thinks of any changes I should make to the poll, so it might be tomorrow that I end up adding it. o3o

Edited January 2, 2013 by TheGrox

[SilverMoonRain]

Maybe change the words to: ' Don't make any changes' instead of :

No, keep numbers the same as last year.

Because we don't know how the prizes will be given out this year until its announced!!!

 

 

(Sorry about grammar I wrote this from a mobile!!!!!!! )

[TheGrox]

Actually, yes, I said "last year" meaning the 2011 Tinsels, but your quite right that my wording is a bit off with that one. I will Change my wording a bit.

 

Actually, TJ could have made any number of changes this year for all we know, we'll have to wait and see .

Edited January 2, 2013 by TheGrox

[DarkEternity]

We'll wait and see .____.

Instead of 'No, get rid of the raffle altogether.' perhaps word it as 'please remove the raffle altogether'?

 

Because we don't know how the prizes will be given out this year until its announced!!!

Eh, yup and one person I know bugged TJ about it but no hints before the actual drawing!

We'll likely have fewer entries this year than last year due to the nature of the recipes.

Edited January 2, 2013 by DarkEternity

[siliconrose]

Agreed, Fuzzzzj. Friendly reminder that the average scores for trees was around 3 on a scale of 1-10, with winning trees having at least a 7. That's certainly proof of people downvoting every other tree in the hopes that theirs will get a high score, and even if we weren't allowed to post "Vote for my tree!" it did happen.

Just a note:

 

I voted on every tree, I did not know who owned any of the trees which I voted on, I voted blank trees as the lowest possible value, and I honestly voted a 3 on most trees. I saved higher values for trees which had coherent composition, awareness of color, and were visually attractive to me. In general, I voted almost all of the picture trees poorly.

 

Just because the scores were low was not due to them being given unfairly. There were a lot of trees which just weren't very good.

[KageSora]

Just a note:

 

I voted on every tree, I did not know who owned any of the trees which I voted on, I voted blank trees as the lowest possible value, and I honestly voted a 3 on most trees.  I saved higher values for trees which had coherent composition, awareness of color, and were visually attractive to me.  In general, I voted almost all of the picture trees poorly.

 

Just because the scores were low was not due to them being given unfairly.  There were a lot of trees which just weren't very good.

That right there is where a major bit of the subjectiveness comes in, though. What's visually attractive to you may very well not be visually attractive to another--and somebody else might find those picture trees visually attractive.

 

Just because you thought they weren't very good doesn't mean they were bad--that's how you viewed it. Other people may have thought they were amazing. That's the whole reason it's hard to have a contest like that, because it's subjective.

[fuzzzzj]

Just a note:

 

I voted on every tree, I did not know who owned any of the trees which I voted on, I voted blank trees as the lowest possible value, and I honestly voted a 3 on most trees.  I saved higher values for trees which had coherent composition, awareness of color, and were visually attractive to me.  In general, I voted almost all of the picture trees poorly.

 

Just because the scores were low was not due to them being given unfairly.  There were a lot of trees which just weren't very good.

You sound like you voted the trees fairly, but other people did not. (That's what it sounds like.) I'm also sure that you are a fair critiquer but that competition is a bit like writing. Everyone has a diffrent opinion so a 5 to me could seem like a 3 to you. People also get lazy, after a 1000 entries of whatever everything seems bad except for the astounding.

Edit: 'd

Edited January 2, 2013 by fuzzzzj

[DarkEternity]

Yes, however, people still get art examined/have their artwork assessed by teachers etc. and also the tree decorating involved objects that were created by spriters, so that we were never working with anything original in the first place. However, the tree decorating was easily exploitable for self benefit... and if it were not for some people who voted with some degree of fairness (i.e. not giving everyone 0) it would not have worked. And it's true, a lot of trees simply weren't good enough in my eyes.

 

(But the reason I object to the tree decorating contest is not because it was easily exploitable by individuals, but because there was no recaptcha during the process which would have identified if a COMPUTER was the one doing the voting and not a person.)

 

Moving on, the tree contest was in the past and it's not coming back. I believe that TJ would have had some part to play in selecting the trees anyway.

[AngelKitty]

3. Back to the 2011 way. Many of 2011's CB tinsel winners were more experienced players, and most are still active today. The 2011 Tree Decorating Contest was obviously not fair, but it was at least a fun and engaging contest, much more so than the raffle we have nowadays.

 

NO.

 

Other than that, I don't care, though the bronze trophy limitation seems like the best solution if anything is going to be done.

[boscodelta]

As far as multi-clutching goes I think I would actually be annoyed if I won a CB tinsel and only my CB or whatever, multi-clutched. And this isn't because I'm a greedy person or anything, as a matter of fact if I did get one I would probably gift 80% of its eggs anyways but it would be aggravating that only tinsels (or as other users suggested, only the CB tinsels) multi-clutched. It's like having someone else telling you how to play your game. With holidays I can completely understand, I love the holiday multi-clutch. But Tinsels are not a holiday dragon they are someones prize and they should be able to do/play with it however they want. Multi-clutch would actually make me just not want to breed my tinsel at all.

[Fuzzbucket]

Whoops sorry Grox (btw you guys can call me fuzz).

They already call ME fuzz. Go for confusion, let's !!

 

No multiclutching for any one all year dragon, please. And actually I would hate to see multiclutching outside of holidays. - unless it came as the result of a BSA - there's a thread...

 

This is what I do not like as an approach for a discussion about the number of Prizes. Why should the economy be the sole basis for a decision? Why should the economy take precedence over availability and number of CB Dragons? I give a rat's behind about economy, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. If you want to persuade the users who are like me, don't take the economy as premise for a decision, but weigh in other factors as well.

 

THIS ! I hate all the talk about the economy. It almost feels like winning is to be a CHORE.

[Coronaviridae]

Just wondering (I'll probably get bashed for saying this, but): Everyone who argued so forcibly against having any limitation or any change to the raffle, would you all be happy if this year, all the prizes that were given out went to newbies, who all subsequently allowed them to die or left without breeding? So you would never be able to get any of the new prize? Whilst far-fetched, it could happen, and is in no way as far-fetched as some scenarios that people have come up with so far to argue against my points.

 

Just something to think about. :3

So I'd never get one.

 

This is my "do not curr" face. I literally have 0 problems with people doing whatever they want with their own dragons on their own scrolls. Even if I did, it isn't my business to tell them how to play, or when to play, or that they need to keep playing because I think they should.

 

That said, I favor more prizes being handed out initially or the possibility of multiclutching.

[Rally Vincent]

Just a note:

 

I voted on every tree, I did not know who owned any of the trees which I voted on, I voted blank trees as the lowest possible value, and I honestly voted a 3 on most trees.  I saved higher values for trees which had coherent composition, awareness of color, and were visually attractive to me.  In general, I voted almost all of the picture trees poorly.

 

Just because the scores were low was not due to them being given unfairly.  There were a lot of trees which just weren't very good.

I can second that, as I also voted on every tree and tried my best to maintain coherency in my votings. One addition to what SR said: there were many unfinished trees, probably due to a glitch that occured during decoration time which, IIRC, made ornaments shift or didn't save changes (don't remember exactly what the glitch did).

 

Given the subjectiveness, a raffle is the better way to determine winners, though.

Edited January 2, 2013 by Rally Vincent

[TheGrox]

Okay, so I think we've gathered that a contest like tree decorating is not the way to go.

 

Also, poll added, get voting! c:

 

 

Even if I did, it isn't my business to tell them how to play, or when to play, or that they need to keep playing because I think they should.

 

That said, I favor more prizes being handed out initially or the possibility of multiclutching.

Multiclutching would effectively be telling someone how to play, it is saying to the winner that they must breed for the community. It stops winners from having the option to just breed for themselves or their friends, or the people they want to breed for.

Edited January 2, 2013 by TheGrox

[MedievalMystic]

I think that every player on the site, be it someone that's been here for a day or someone that's been here as long as the game has existed, should be able to win the prize in raffles. If they're here and playing at the time of the raffle, they should have a shot at it. *shrug* If the prize winners leave, they leave, and that's that. It just makes the prize dragons that are left more valuable. And if by some weird chance ALL the prize winners leave and there are NO prize dragons bred, then that's what it is, sad as that may be.

 

I am in favor of more prize dragons being handed out. There are thousands of players on this site. Even if TJ handed out hundreds of prize dragons, that's not even a fraction of the user base, so why not just give out more of the dragons to begin with? I'm sure that way at least a few long term players would get the prize and breed for other's, too.

[skauble]

I wouldn't mind having multi-clutches. That would give non-traders and non-forum goers a chance to get prize dragons that are lower gen in nature and help balance the economy tilt that happens in regard to these limited dragons.

 

As for it dictating to players because other dragons don't do it, actually the Holiday dragons multi-clutch, so I don't see why these can't also.

 

As far as raffle vs. skill based competitions goes, I preferred the competition, but I was okay with the shift to the raffle because the competition distressed a lot of players and I didn't think it was worth that. What I would be interested in would be a split - for instance, people who prefer the raffle could do the recipe thing and get entries that way, and people who liked competition could choose to have their gingerbread houses judged.

 

But I am completely against limiting the contest to exclude new players. There's no guarentee that anyone will stick with the game, or that they'll choose to breed their dragon, no matter how long they've played, and excluding new players may very well make them less likely to continue playing than more likely to do so, and that's not a good thing.

 

ETA:

 

Multiclutching would effectively be telling someone how to play, it is saying to the winner that they must breed for the community. It stops winners from having the option to just breed for themselves or their friends, or the people they want to breed for.

 

Actually, the game doesn't have a problem with this. The ratios, early in the game, that dictated multi-clutches made people drop eggs for others with almost every breeding. That only changed because of population as opposed to some shift in how multi-clutches are viewed, so I don't see the issued with them. The prize dragons have an incredibly low population, so it's actually in keeping with the game that they'd multi-clutch.

Edited January 2, 2013 by skauble

[Fuzzbucket]

I can second that, as I also voted on every tree and tried my best to maintain coherency in my votings. One addition to what SR said: there were many unfinished trees, probably due to a glitch that occured during decoration time which, IIRC, made ornaments shift or didn't save changes (don't remember exactly what the glitch did).

 

Given the subjectiveness, a raffle is the better way to determine winners, though.

So did I - and it was very tiring.

 

So it was annoying to see all the posts here saying "I'm giving 10 to every blank tree I see" and "I am voting for everything with no blue bits" - and "I am voting 10 for everything because I want to be the first to have voted on them all so I'm not wasting time looking at them."

 

I agree about the raffle.

 

- and in a WAY with

 

Multiclutching would effectively be telling someone how to play, it is saying to the winner that they must breed for the community. It stops winners from having the option to just breed for themselves or their friends, or the people they want to breed for.

Though I find it a little sad as an attitude. I love the fact that holidays send so many to the AP. But I would not want to see multiclutching on anything that can be bred all year (except, as I said, by BSA) so I will bit the bullet...

 

Also - to all those who say we can find out all we need to know on forum - there were threads and threads telling people about the glitch - which was fixed well before the end - but heaps of people came in at the end saying but no-one had TOLD them. So the idea that all events need only be announced here is a non-starter, for me.

Edited January 2, 2013 by fuzzbucket

[Mistress of Whispers]

I clicked 'Yes, an increase based on a proportion of entries' but I am also in favour of multi-clutching them. But since the 'Yes, an increase AND make prizes multiclutch' option did not specify an increase based on proportions, I chose the former.

/clarify

[drabrugon]

Multiclutching would effectively be telling someone how to play, it is saying to the winner that they must breed for the community. It stops winners from having the option to just breed for themselves or their friends, or the people they want to breed for.

As a person who likes to breed for others and breed eggs only to drop them into the AP it sounds strange that others do not like to breed for the community, but ok, I get your point. What makes me change my mind about multichlutching is the argument that it would be unfair for Prizes while all other dragons can only produce one egg.