ANSWERED:Raffle Rethink?

[siliconrose]

Ironically, it's a completely impossible goal now, considering the amount of owners that left without ever breeding and the amount of last years Tinsels we still don't know about.

Yeah, but even if that hadn't happened, I bet fewer players would have decided to collect all of them. 60 is pretty daunting. 100 even worse. 400 (1% of 40,000 users)? Now that would be a long term scroll goal! That's more than some players have dragons!

 

(Note: The fact that I think this is an interesting scroll goal does not in any way mean I think I have a right to them. Personally, I eventually collected one tinsel of every lineage from the original 30.)

[skauble]

Okay, so (to everyone): If the point of the raffle is not to reward people for skill (which it obviously doesn't), nor to reward people for being here for a while and being active (which it clearly doesn't either), nor to get a new special prize dragon into the breeding pool (because everyone seems to think it doesn't matter if they breed or not), then tell me, What is the point of the raffle?

 

Because we all seem to have different opinions on this, and that's sort of the problem.

People are right that the point of the raffle is to have fun, but more than that it draws people to the site, gets them to be active, and helps tempt back people who may have stopped playing.

 

While this is a game, it's important to remember that there's also the business end of this website, and that part involves bringing people here. Holiday dragons and contests, although definitely crafted for the enjoyment of the players (which is why I didn't mind the switch to the raffle), also achieve the goal of reinvigorating players that are here by increasing activity and drawing in past players.

 

Ironically, it's a completely impossible goal now, considering the amount of owners that left without ever breeding and the amount of last years Tinsels we still don't know about.

 

@Olympe: so you are saying that the 12 still 'unknown' prizes were ALL hatched without using fan sites, on other forums or by using proxies? I highly doubt it. More likely someone won, forgot about the egg and it got 0 views and died. TJ wouldn't have protected against that, only sickness (because CB Tinsels will inevitably get a lot of views if put into a hatchery and get sick).

This seems, at least to me, to be kind of contrary to the argument against multi-clutches. Even though multi-clutches are a valid part of this game and in keeping with the DC ecology rationale, it was argued that it would force people to play a certain way and that wasn't good.

 

But the argumet to exclude new players seems to be that they shouldn't have a chance to get these because they might not take care of them or breed them - in other words, playing the way that you want them to.

[TheGrox]

Skauble, wanting to breed for only who you want to (or only yourself) IS a playstyle. We shouldn't stop people from playing in this way. Letting a dragon die or leaving the game altogether is certainly not a playstyle.

[RainDear]

Skauble, wanting to breed for only who you want to (or only yourself) IS a playstyle. We shouldn't stop people from playing in this way. Letting a dragon die or leaving the game altogether is certainly not a playstyle.

But it is a choice, and we have to let people make their own choices. You can't tell lottery winners what to do with their prizes, or slot winners, or roulette winners, or dragon winners.

[skauble]

Skauble, wanting to breed for only who you want to (or only yourself) IS a playstyle. We shouldn't stop people from playing in this way. Letting a dragon die or leaving the game altogether is certainly not a playstyle.

Actually, we had a huge thing about that very issue - wanting to breed just for yourself - a few years back when we had multi-clutches, and it was made pretty clear when eggs multi-clutch if you don't want them to go to other players then don't breed them. Which is still the rationale with the Holiday dragons and why we can't teleport them all to the people we want to have them.

 

Breeding for yourself (as in one egg and deciding it's fate) isn't a style, it's simply the byproduct of the dragon population rise that caused multiple egg production to be unnecessary. That's why the dragons don't multi-cutch right now, but still retain the ability.

 

And letting a dragon die is a choice the player makes (except in the case of view bombing). People have every right to let the dragons die, they even have the right to kill them outright. If people want to play this game occasionally and not get worried if their dragons happen to die, that's up to them.

 

But the fact is that not all new players do that. In fact lots and lots of them don't which is how we get old players. Leaving them out because of something that might happen seems very unfair.

[DarkEternity]

Letting dragons die is a playstyle... like biting or neglecting

But the sort of justification is always insidious.

A short summary of arguments made earlier in the thread again excluding new players:

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- The raffle is already fair. There is no way that it can be made more fair, only less fair. By benefiting older players, we might as well declare the fact that we are discriminating against newer players.

- Some players want to win the raffle fairly and not on the basis of only older players benefiting

 

- All older players were all newer players at some point.

- Most new players lose interest in a game from a day to a week of first trying a game. We're not talking about making newer players wait from a day to a week before being able to participate in a raffle. If you are particularly unlucky, you might have to wait until next year (365 days) to get a bronze trophy to participate. That's enough time for anyone to lose interest in a game.

- The purpose of the contest is to retain and engage the player base. Excluding players is the complete opposite of the aim.

- Both older players and newer players go inactive, albeit not at the same rate.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

If you multiclutch you are breeding for yourself since you get an egg from the clutch. Furthermore, the contest is held at Christmas suggesting that at least a portion of the Christmas spirit should be taken into consideration.

 

Besides, if a dragon dies, there is an alternative to excluding new players. If a CB prize dragon dies, TJ could always pick another from the pool of potential winners.

Edited January 3, 2013 by DarkEternity

[Coronaviridae]

The point of the raffle is for fun.

 

the end :T

[DarkEternity]

The point of the raffle is for fun.

 

the end :T

And maybe to introduce dragons ^-^

[Coronaviridae]

And maybe to introduce dragons ^-^

Sure. But as I said way, way upthread, if the worst happens and everyone who wins a dragon disappears off the face of the earth before breeding and distributing them, TJ can always stage another event to give more out.

 

If the dragon's to be introduced, it'll get introduced one way or another.

[siliconrose]

It might be good if TJ provides another CB prize to a winner if any of the originals die, but I honestly think that he's going to pop into the thread and tell us that none of them have died.

 

BTW: If he did this, I think he ought to re-raffle, not simply resurrect the dragon in question. However, again, I think this is one of those corner cases we've fixated on which is really not important in the larger scheme of things.

Edited January 3, 2013 by siliconrose

[Aderik]

 

I'm not really pro-multiclutch, but I would like to see more winners.  A 0.075% (assuming 30 prizes for 40,000 players) chance of winning a prize is depressingly low to me.

 

But fundamentally?  I really want one.  That's my reason.

My thoughts exactly. I dont care about reasons, about breeding or money. I entered the raffle hoping to win, but knowing that it is a statistical improbability. The fact that the raffle comes along once a year antes up the hope. I didnt win last year or the year before, and truth be told, I wanna win.

 

Yes I do.

 

Now think of this. With a 1% win rate, that means everyone would win the raffle once every 100 years. With a 0.075% win rate that is.... Well way over a thousand.

 

So think of that. It is fair statistically, but is it really fair when the chances of winning is so low it most likely wont happen to you in anyone who is here's lifetime?

 

Edit: To the.poster below me, trust me, my two infants bicker waaaaay more maturely than me.

 

Edit 2: I am selfish so what?

Edited January 3, 2013 by Aderik

[obsessed_by_dragons]

This is a raffle. The fundamental point of a raffle is that it's random and it's fair. People who argue that older users are more deserving and would use the prizes more responsibly, are simply being unconsciously (or nor so much in some cases) selfish and wishing for more of a chance of they themselves winning. What people should realise is that there is every likelihood of a newbie getting the prizes. And yes, it is reasonably probable that they will not appreciate what they have been given and leave the game. HOWEVER, it is equally possible that that newbie will stick around, perhaps join the forum, do their research. And maybe, just maybe, given the gift of wealth and status, they'll grow to perhaps become one of the greatest breeders on dragon cave. You simply can't predict that. I vote no change.

Edited January 9, 2013 by SockPuppet Strangler

[skauble]

I do agree, though, that winning a prize dragon has a good chance of turning a new player into a long term player. After all, if they're doing things to enter the raffle then they are probably eager to win the prize and would most likely value it accordingly.

Edited January 9, 2013 by SockPuppet Strangler

[Data_Girl_3]

I'm not sure I understand the point of this post. While I will admit that it would be nice if more people won, since I'm sure we've got more players than we did at this time last year, raffles are supposed to be random, so it's probably more fair than the last two years. With the tree and wreath decorating, the odds were somewhat in favor of those who came up with elaborate designs, meaning people who used simple designs didn't have a very good chance.

 

 

And I've already accepted the fact that, even though things are fairer this year, my chances of being one of the winners this year are still slim to none. I'm sure I'll eventually manage to snag one of the descendants, so I'm not too fussed. It would be nice if I did win, but if I don't, I just have to be patient. Thus, I'm only wondering when the winners will be officially announced. I'm quite eager to see what this never-before seen dragon looks like

[siliconrose]

I'm not sure I understand the point of this post. While I will admit that it would be nice if more people won, since I'm sure we've got more players than we did at this time last year, raffles are supposed to be random, so it's probably more fair than the last two years. With the tree and wreath decorating, the odds were somewhat in favor of those who came up with elaborate designs, meaning people who used simple designs didn't have a very good chance.

It was a raffle last year too. ^^ The wreaths were just for funsies, the actual tickets came from reading the stories. (I didn't really like the catch up day, personally, but meh.)

[chienkaiba]

Well, after this whole thread, I'm sure that all newbies will understand how important prize dragons are to DC and keep playing if they do recieve one.

[Dolphinsong]

Not all newbies come to the fourms, nor do they read every thread so saying this tread will help prevent them from leaving if they win... Not happening =)

[angelicdragonpuppy]

It was a raffle last year too. ^^ The wreaths were just for funsies, the actual tickets came from reading the stories. (I didn't really like the catch up day, personally, but meh.)

The catch up day didn't let people get missed raffle tickets, just missed wreath decorations. *was one of the people who missed the first few days, and much appreciated the make-up day ;___;*

[RMMC]

Skauble, wanting to breed for only who you want to (or only yourself) IS a playstyle. We shouldn't stop people from playing in this way. Letting a dragon die or leaving the game altogether is certainly not a playstyle.

As has been pointed out by several people already, yes, letting a dragon die, or out right killing it is a play style. It may not be yours or mine, but it's not against the rules. Before I joined there had been a cap on the number of kills your could have period, before you got booted from the game; that is no longer true, so if a winner wanted to try vamping it or making a 1000:1 attempt at zombifying it when it isn't Halloween, or just plain deciding it's too much trouble, etc, it's their business as the winner and not anyone elses.

 

And as for leaving, that isn't just new folks, nor is it always a whim. I had to absent myself for several months this year due to serious RL issues. I literally had time, once a month, to pull up my scroll so the names didn't vanish. I didn't plan it, and had I been a winner, would that have meant that I should have been stripped of my prize? I think not.

 

As for the doubt that the "missing" prize dragon owners aren't on the Forum, I have no problem believing that is a possibility. Of the group of friends that I play with, about a third are not on the Forum here. Heck, if it hadn't been for the Lag Monster that happened a few months after I started playing, I might never had joined the Forum, but would still be happily playing with my friends.

 

The upshot is, the current system, while imperfect, is the best it's gonna get and a darn sight better than the Christmas Tree debacle of a few years ago. I vote it stays as is.

[WraithZephyr]

The raffle this year is by far the fairest methods of entry that has occurred thus far. Everyone had to do the exact same thing. You had x number of days to complete a series of tasks at your own pace - if you wanted to do it in one night you could. if you wanted to do it over several days you could. For each task completed you get a ticket. How many tasks you chose to complete was up to you (until the max limit was reached that is). There was no biased/artistic judgment (or lack of judgement) involved that happened with the tree decorating. There was no being forced to log in every single day for a set number of days to read story chapters. Why is there this need to try to fix something that is obviously not broken this time around ???

 

Anyone capable of meeting the basic requirements of this year's raffle has EARNED their ticket. It does not matter one whit if they signed up an hour ago, has played the game since day one, doesn't ever breed any dragons, or has won a prize before. They paid for their ticket(s) so they should get their chance to win just like everyone else who earned their ticket(s). Being outright prejudiced against a specific group of the player base and denying them from being able to enter because they are not deemed "good enough" to enter the contest based on some discriminatory criteria is just plain WRONG. Don't discriminate because you are afraid and selfish enough to think that they might not choose to share their prize in a manner you seem to think they should. If a person wins, it's their prize to do with as they please - not your place to dictate to them what they should do with it.

 

We also don't know "how many" winners will ultimately be pulled from the hat... so there is no use in crying over how many possible winners their may or may not be or whether that number is fair or not. It's TJ's choice to make - not ours to force on him. If he wants 10 winners - that's his choice. If he wants 1000 winners - that's his choice.

 

Multi-clutches... Doesn't matter how rare prize dragons are - they are NOT holiday dragons and they should NOT be treated any differently than the majority of other dragons breeds. They should NOT be allowed to multi-clutch. If you allowed them to multi-clutch because they are "rare", then people will be crying about wanting gold and silver dragons to multi-clutch due to their rareness. Don't you see.. rare is supposed to be rare.. stop trying to make them common.

 

 

 

[skauble]

Multi-clutches...  Doesn't matter how rare prize dragons are - they are NOT holiday dragons and they should NOT be treated any differently than the majority of other dragons breeds. They should NOT be allowed to multi-clutch.  If you allowed them to multi-clutch because they are "rare", then  people will be crying about wanting gold and silver dragons to multi-clutch due to their rareness.  Don't you see.. rare is supposed to be rare.. stop trying to make them common.

The thing about Silver and Golds is that they're actually at their proper ratio limit so that only X amount are bred or dropped in order to maintain that ratio. Whereas prize dragons begin as far below whatever ratio they'll end up having. I would understand them no longer multi-clutching when they reached a certain ratio point, but I don't think it would be a problem or ruin rarity if they multi-clutched to that point. With other releases that doesn't need to happen because they drop in the cave in addition to being bred to push up their numbers.

 

And I don't think there's a problem with compulsory sharing part of it given that Vamps, which can't be gotten from the cave, have a percentage chance of repulsing which it pretty much the same thing.

[yugithecutie]

I think that everyone should have a chance

Edited January 3, 2013 by yugithecutie

[DarkEternity]

If you allowed them to multi-clutch because they are "rare", then people will be crying about wanting gold and silver dragons to multi-clutch due to their rareness. Don't you see.. rare is supposed to be rare.. stop trying to make them common.

Single eggs, multiclutches, either way they're going to hit the same number I'm assuming with the ratios in play. There is no such thing as more common. There is no such thing as supposed to be rare either users are the ones generating demand.

[CNR4806]

I actually voted to nuke the raffle altogether:

1. With the current prize-to-participant ratio, these prizes are literally impossible for the vast majority to get in their lives. It means literally nothing to them other than some random people got some unobtainium that they can only wish to get in a thousand years.

2. Really, the raffles spawned so much heated discussion on the board and is ruining the supposed Christmas spirit, why should it even stay?

3. If being fair, giving people a noticable chance to win and making the prizes valuable can't exist together, it should just go rather than staying to spark more drama.

[Piston Smashed]

Not read all 35 pages just woke up, I'm not totally sure on the rules of the raffle but normally a raffle is determined by people with tickets, they go in to a bag and then someone picks them out all fair and square.

 

In this case the tickets are determined by the amount of red star recipes you managed to collect, with most people that will probably mean they got everyone and thus has an equal chance of a winner being pulled from the raffle, The more entries the great the chance of winning.

 

A raffle isn't a raffle if it's determined by how long you've been playing, you don't get 3 tickets for having a bronze trophy or being here for a year. Tickets were won far an square by doing the tasks set out and if people leave or anything else, that is up to them.

 

I had a 1 1/2 yr off or so and have recently come back, so what's to stop anyone else not coming back when and if they like. If they won the raffle and decide not too play again or take a break, that's up to them they still won the raffle fair and square by doing the tasks that was set out and everyone was able to do set tasks in order to win a ticket in the raffle. Making rules like you must have a bronze trophy will just alienate newer players etc, they have the same right as even the oldest members to take part in the events and try to win a prize from the raffle, after all it's lil things like this that makes someone smile that bit more when they might otherwise not do

Edited January 3, 2013 by Piston Smashed