ANSWERED:Raffle Rethink?

[Fiona]

Fuzz, your scroll number is not a direct reflection of how many people are actually playing DC. It's only a reflection of how many scrolls have been created. So having scroll number 500,000-something doesn't mean there are more than 500,000 players. Scroll numbers started at 1 and went from there, without reusing numbers from scrolls that are burned, deleted, abandoned, etc.

 

I think only TJ knows for sure how many active scrolls there are but 50,000 sounds a lot closer than 500,000. I'd have put the number of active users lower than that, actually.

 

 

I'm not sure total prizes of 1% of active users is a good idea. We don't want to make them so numerous that players feel like their prize is worthless. It still needs to seem special to the winners. So 500 prizes given out may be a bit high. I was thinking in terms of 100 to 200 prizes each year. Enough so people feel they have a decent chance of winning, but not so many that it seems like everybody must have won something. If 100 prizes then maybe 10 first place, 20 second place, 30 third place and 40 honorable mention prizes. Double those numbers for 200 total prizes.

[olympe]

Even if you have one out of 500 special new dragons that will be limited to that number as CB, they're worth more than a CB metal, and even their offspring will have high trading value. Not as crazy as right now, where one 2nd gen tinsel owner can ask for several CB metals in return - but still crazy enough.

 

Apart from that, if from 500 prizes 50 are gold winners, 100 are silver winners, 150 are bronze winners and the remaining 300 are honorable mentions - there still are three different new sprites to collect for everyone. Of course, this is mere speculation, for nobody knows whether there will be three different sprites again or not.

[blah]

I think only TJ knows for sure how many active scrolls there are but 50,000 sounds a lot closer than 500,000. I'd have put the number of active users lower than that, actually.

According to TJ, that's pretty accurate

 

~Removed~ Do not post another members info.

Edited January 2, 2013 by _Z_

[Fuzzbucket]

Fuzz, your scroll number is not a direct reflection of how many people are actually playing DC. It's only a reflection of how many scrolls have been created. So having scroll number 500,000-something doesn't mean there are more than 500,000 players. Scroll numbers started at 1 and went from there, without reusing numbers from scrolls that are burned, deleted, abandoned, etc.

 

I think only TJ knows for sure how many active scrolls there are but 50,000 sounds a lot closer than 500,000. I'd have put the number of active users lower than that, actually.

 

 

I'm not sure total prizes of 1% of active users is a good idea. We don't want to make them so numerous that players feel like their prize is worthless. It still needs to seem special to the winners. So 500 prizes given out may be a bit high. I was thinking in terms of 100 to 200 prizes each year. Enough so people feel they have a decent chance of winning, but not so many that it seems like everybody must have won something. If 100 prizes then maybe 10 first place, 20 second place, 30 third place and 40 honorable mention prizes. Double those numbers for 200 total prizes.

Oh I know - but then again - loads more have signed up since I did.

 

That said - I think TJ said once that there were about a quarter of a million active scrolls, when someone was suggesting that the number of players was equal to the number of forum members (which we all know it isn't.)

 

ETA I stand corrected by blah.

 

1% of ENTRIES sounds fair to me.... You can't win if you don't enter, so counting those in as well would be pointless...

Edited January 1, 2013 by fuzzbucket

[TheGrox]

ETA I stand corrected by blah.

 

1% of ENTRIES sounds fair to me.... You can't win if you don't enter, so counting those in as well would be pointless...

So, according to TJ's own information, we have over 40000 active users. 1% of 40000 is 400. So you are proposing around 400 prizes? I still think that's too much.

 

I would be in support of a small increase, say up to 100, but no more.

[PrincessLucy]

To be honest, if I won a prize and the multiclutching idea happened, I would just get a load of good catchers to wait in the AP and catch the rest of the offspring for me. Honestly, whenever I chuck something in the AP, it either gets killed, gets bitten, dies because a newbie forgot about it, or grows up and gets named "i am a flamingo 14" and is never bred. This is why I prefer things to go to the people I give them to.

That name is taken, so they will have to go with "i am a flamingo 15" instead.

 

I would love to see more multi-clutch things happen, but I wouldn't announce my breedings if i won. I know I would love to randomly catch a special egg from the AP, especially since it would be something that i would otherwise never be able to get in low-gen.

 

I would love to see more of the prize dragons happen, 100 to me would be a nice amount of CB prizes.

[olympe]

Well, not all prizes have to be prize dragons - I'd be also very happy with an HM prize.

[Wookieinmashoo]

I'm not sure total prizes of 1% of active users is a good idea. We don't want to make them so numerous that players feel like their prize is worthless.

They will be holding one of the few CB dragons of that breed. That's not worthless. It's also a dragon, an immortal one while growing up, that was given to them because they got lucky. If someone feels that's worthless, then just release the dragon because they might as well not have it.

 

From what I remember from the breeding threads, people were happy to give out their dragons and happy the dragons produced easily, but unhappy that it was too easy. People eventually assumed it was a common dragon because of the way it bred. Instead of it breeding like a rare, or a common, hoe about like an uncommon. A little less common than a trio would be pretty fitting to me. Something that's not overly common and not overly rare to where it's frustrating to get one.

 

I think increasing the number of prizes to 1% of the total players would be nice. I'd vote for a higher percentage personally but it seems the most agreeable number is 1%.

[Slaskia]

I was one of those that hated the idea of their being 'prize dragons' to begin with: I felt they went against the nature of the site where users can get anything they want with enough time and effort (of course, this is now impossible thanks to the retiring of two sprites). That ship sailed two years ago, so....

 

That said I hated the tree decorating contest even more than the idea of prize dragons (what people considered art is subjective...what people consider good art is even more so). The lotto/raffle is far more fair then that contest was and the only thing I am really for out of the suggestions is the increase the number of prizes given out. And ya know what? I don't give a flip if giving out too many ruins the 'rarity/value' of the dragon: I just want decent short lineages to be more available, if CBs won't be. So give out 500...I don't care.

 

Now, I am one of those 'horrible' people that don't breed often, unless it's for myself (and the rare times I want to try to glomp gift someone). Last time I breed many of my rares was before the metal ratio glitch was fixed years ago (I used to breed a lot in general back then, now, the thrill is largely gone), though I do breed my Holidays every time their season comes around. I've also gone through periods of relative inactivity, where I just poke my head into the forums once in a while to see if there's a new release (but never was away from my scroll long enough for my dragons to lose their names).

 

Needless to say, I'm probably wouldn't be an 'ideal' user certain people would want to win a CB prize dragon. Sure, I'll breed it and attempt to trade the offspring for something I have had no luck getting under my own power, though after that breeding would be on my whims (random FFA drops, glomp gifting, etc). Not to mention I'll smack anyone with a cold trout if they begged me to breed it (followed by a blacklisting if they persist).

 

That's my 2 cents....

[DarkEternity]

If more prizes are released, they will become as hard to breed as tinsels...More quickly. Eventually. It would be nice to have a midpoint between LOL I BREED LIKE RABBITS EXPONENTIALLY and LOL I HAVEN'T PRODUCED ANYTHING FOR THE PAST SIX MONTHS, if the ratios will allow, of course.

 

 

[TheGrox]

I think they should breed well in the beginning, yes, to distribute the population a bit. But it would be nice for them to gradually breed less until they get to a more manageable rate, like someone said before, a bit more uncommon than trios.

 

For once, DarkEternity, I agree with you

Edited January 1, 2013 by TheGrox

[Wookieinmashoo]

Needless to say, I'm probably wouldn't be an 'ideal' user certain people would want to win a CB prize dragon. Sure, I'll breed it and attempt to trade the offspring for something I have had no luck getting under my own power, though after that breeding would be on my whims (random FFA drops, glomp gifting, etc). Not to mention I'll smack anyone with a cold trout if they begged me to breed it (followed by a blacklisting if they persist).

If you're not "ideal" then I must be awful. I still have a bronze lineage that hasn't been done before to my knowledge and I have selfishly kept every single one of the offspring. If I win one of the new prizes I will do the same. Only certain friends will get any in the promise that they also keep all the offspring. I see no reason to kill a market everyone else is.

 

 

I also do not see how having more prize dragons will result in them not breeding. The ratios seems to only update in cycles (this is a guess) and I'm sure that the original prize dragons will start breeding again in a few months. People need to learn to not jump on the bandwagon and over breed things if they want it to work. I rarely bred any of my prize dragons and what I did would either get traded and sometimes dumped to the AP. There is no reason to breed every single one of them all the time, yet that is the choice people make. It's not the fault of the ratios it's just how people breed that causes these things, which there is nothing we can do about that as a whole. There will be a breeding "drought" whether or not there are more CB prizes.

[TheGrox]

People need to learn to not jump on the bandwagon and over breed things if they want it to work.

Nobody is going to think "for the sake of the ratios, I'm not breeding my prize" now are they? People don't even consider the ratios when breeding. They just consider what they can gain from doing it.

[Fuzzbucket]

I think they should breed well in the beginning, yes, to distribute the population a bit. But it would be nice for them to gradually breed less until they get to a more manageable rate, like someone said before, a bit more uncommon than trios.

 

For once, DarkEternity, I agree with you

Which is what has happened with tinsels. I am trying to finish a linage with tinselfFAILS and - nada.

[Wookieinmashoo]

Nobody is going to think "for the sake of the ratios, I'm not breeding my prize" now are they? People don't even consider the ratios when breeding. They just consider what they can gain from doing it.

Which is why I basically said it's never going to happen and there will be a breeding drought whether or not people like it.

[DarkEternity]

I only wonder how many prize sprites are waiting in the wings...

Some things I'd like to see discussed:

- More regular VS once per year raffles (where you can't win more than once in x period and the number of prizes given out in total exceed current 50 prizes)

- Different contests at the same time (you can enter 1 contest in total but you choose which you enter)

- HMs proportional to DC population (eg 0.5%), fixed prize winners (e.g 50) where the prize dragons of the past are added as an HM option

- possibility of frozen egg as a prize (dragged to death, sorry)

- prizes with limits - high (eg 100), low, variable (e.g 10% of the number of dragons on your scroll is the number of prizes you can keep)

[BatPopsicle]

Spam removed. Edited January 9, 2013 by SockPuppet Strangler

[Wookieinmashoo]

Spam removed. Edited January 9, 2013 by SockPuppet Strangler

[BatPopsicle]

I think upping the amount to 1% would be nice. But any amount is already generous of TJ.

Edited January 9, 2013 by SockPuppet Strangler

[rayden54]

I think most people who don't just want something they can Use To Trade For PRECIOUS STUFF feel that way actually. And when I trade, that isn't the reason I do it. I trade something I can do for something I want - "value" defined by some perceived rarity isn't the criterion. People saying they won't breed if ANY of it goes to the AP is the one reason I MIGHT support multiclutches. Which is silly - but that attitude bugs me.

Just because YOU don't like trading things based on their "value" doesn't mean no one else does. I spend most of my time on DC trading. If I win one, I WANT it to be rare and valuable.

 

I'd love to be able to trade for those things that are just out of my reach.

 

edit: boy, I can't write today.

Edited January 1, 2013 by rayden54

[olympe]

As would everybody. And yet, trading for 2nd gen prize dragons is out of most players' reach, too. If I had to choose, I'd rather have the low value - no matter whether I win or not.

[TheGrox]

As would everybody. And yet, trading for 2nd gen prize dragons is out of most players' reach, too.

So is trading for a CB Metal. Yet nobody says they should become more common just because it is out of their reach. Heck, it took me 3 years to get one.

 

But think about it, if more 2011 winners were active, 2nd gens would be EASIER to obtain. Yet you are arguing against any of the suggestions to solve that sort of problem.

Edited January 1, 2013 by TheGrox

[Fuzzbucket]

Just because YOU don't like trading things based on their "value" doesn't mean no one else does. I spend most of my time on DC trading. If I win one, I WANT it to be rare and valuable.

 

I'd love to be able to trade for those things that are just out of my reach.

Yes I know.

 

But it isn't the be-all and end-all of a prize, surely ? Winning is good too.

 

But then I assume you have no interest in "dragon of your choice" as an alternative to new prize dragons ? (Haven't time to read the whole thread to see if you said one way or the other...)

[grishiu]

So. You guys want to know how more prize dragons will work out on DC? Let's begin.

 

First, we have to take note of the previous prize dragon: Tinsels. What happened with them? Well the first year, we got lots of babies, CB tinsel owners got rich, and tinsels, no matter the lineage were pretty darn sought after. Then the 2nd year came. So we got more tinsels. What happened? Half of them decided to disappear from Earth and tinsel breeding continued. Value dropped over these two years and tinsels weren't sought after because there were just so many. Except the 2nd gens. EVERYBODY and their grandmothers wanted a 2nd gen. But everything under that was worth a fifth of what a 2nd gen was worth. Not only that, but because half of the new tinsel owners disappeared, the 2012 ones were much more valuable than the 2011 ones. Make a note of this. Finally, after so much breeding, the tinsel ratio was through the roof and suddenly, no more tinsels anymore. What is currently happening is that tinsels are not breeding well. Which means that values are increasing due to less supply.

 

So, now let's look at the new release. How will it affect the economy? Much the same way as the previous prize dragons. So wait *gasp* that means that talking about tinsels has everything to do with the new release because it's relevant information!

 

So let's say we get double of what we got with the Tinsel release. Let's make a note that tinsels stopped breeding after two years. This means, that with the amount that's released, it'll be about two years until they stop breeding. Of course, this only applies if 1. only 75% of people that won were breeding regularly and 2. the year after will have no prize. If there is a prize again, chances are that breeding will come to a halt incredibly fast. So no more babies awww Also, with double the amount of people winning, that means more 2nd gens! And more 2nd gens means more 3rd gens! But as the number of 2nd gens increases, so does the number of 3rd gens. And soon, 3rd gens will be much much lower in value than 2nd gens because there can only be a fixed number of 2nd gens bred at a time. So planning on trading your 3rd gens for some nice things that you know you'll never ever be able to catch like a CB gold? You better trade fast because they'll be far, far less worthy than that.

 

Also, what happens if only 10% of prize owners are actually active and trade and gift people? Well, it'll be like the 2012 tinsels. They'll be much, MUCH rarer and sought after than anything else. And because they'll be less to go around, people will say that there needs to be more released again, when that clearly isn't the case. The reason why there's new dragons coming out this year is because we have TOO MANY TINSELS. That's right! TOO MANY TINSELS. The ratios are all jacked up because there's plenty around now so they don't need to. If you guys want more prize dragons, I tell you that this will just keep happening a lot faster and soon we'll need ANOTHER prize dragon because these have been overbred too.

 

So why don't we all just be happy with what we've got already? The fewer the amount of prizes, the longer it takes to jack up the ratios. SO YOU CAN'T GET A PRIZE RIGHT AWAY BOO HOO. You'll get one eventually. And to all those who care about rarity and trade value, they won't go down to nothing in one night. And to all those who can't trade for pretty things, well that only lasts a few months (according to tinsel stats). AND once you get one, you can breed your friends pretties, too!

 

There is your choice. Get everything REALLY REALLY FAST or get everything REALLY REALLY SLOW. In my opinion, going faster has more downsides than going slow. I mean yeah sure you get your complainers saying how they can't get anything nice, but as with tinsels, that only lasts a certain amount of time before everybody's complaining that they can't get 2nd gens. I don't know how many of you were so incredibly excited getting your first 6th gen tinsel, or getting that 9th gen elusive gold one, but dang, they made people really happy. I don't like how after only the low gen ones were considered pretty. I missed the days where you'd give anything for a long lineaged one :/ So, choose wisely.

 

 

Dun hurt me.

[Rally Vincent]

I like how there were thoughts of excluding former winners because Prize Dragons are cash machines and then insisting of keeping Prize dragons rare because winners want to cash in. Shows what parts of this whole thread are about: How to heighten chances for some to win and how to ensure that winning is actually cashing in. So, cashing in is okay when winning oneself, but disgusting that former winners did it.

 

Obviously, having something only a miniscule percentage of players will ever be able to obtain (a CB Prize Dragon) is not enough as a prize. The Prize itself is not the prize, but what you can do with the prize. I can only imagine that winners would complain more about unbreedable Prize Dragons then the other users who could not get offspring.

Edited January 1, 2013 by Rally Vincent