ANSWERED:Raffle Rethink?

[Sturmschwinge]

Also, given the vast majority of DC players don't visit the forums, or don't visit them regularly, they likely do not put any extra value on tinsels beyond "oo, I got one!". This would mean generation and lineage (and low generation/different lineages) may not be all that valuable to them. The portion of the community that does place exceptional value on tinsel eggs is largely restricted to forumgoers, and even then it's not every person on the forum, or every trader, who finds them worth trading for or collecting.

This! Thinking that the majority of players is somehow interested in lineages is really strange and quite far from the reality of the game.

[RMMC]

I look at all of this like I do for a collectible card game, which, for all intents and purposes, this is just like one. You have common cards, uncommon ones, rares and limited editions (think Holiday dragons).

 

Then, you have ultra-rares of which the odds of getting one end up being like one in 20,000 or more. Who can get one? Theoretically, anyone who plunks down that $5.00 or $6.00 for the card pack. Should you expect to get one? No. Is it remotely possible? Yes. Is this fair? Yes. Everyone has an equal chance at winning provided they pony up the appropriate amount of cash at the store.

 

As DC doesn't have currency, instead of hard-earned money getting one a chance or two, it's a little of your time and some effort into thought to get you your chances for that ultra-rare. I don't think my effort and time is worth more simply because I have a gold trophy and the next person has a bronze or maybe doesn't have one at all. Heck, the trophy-less person may have done it much faster than I (and probably did), and for that effort and time, I think they deserve that place in the raffle, so I vote against having it only for trophy holders.

 

I also don't think it would be fair to state after the fact, that there are now strings or exclusions. That's fine print area and should be disclosed before the event, not after.

 

I also wouldn't care one way or another about multi-clutches for prize dragons, as in one way, being the only dragons capable of doing so all year long would also make them special and it might cut down on the cut-throat trading. But increasing the numbers too quickly would also rub some of the shiny off much faster, and I'm not sure if it's a good thing or not. especially if it gets grandfathered to things other than prize dragons. That would probably just encourage people not to breed their special dragons, which would be the opposite of what this would be trying to achieve, so I'm on the 'let's nix this option' as well.

 

 

EDIT: okay, the OP changed up a bit while I was mulling over what to say (yeah, I'm old AND slow. )

 

Make the raffle more difficult: No. This was fine, especially when one considers that there are still young ones who play (for some this is a family game and everyone in the house plays), or for those who have limited means (I've been having compy issues. The only way I could do the recipes at all was on a borrowed Nook. My laptop's been fine with everything else, including decorating the house, but failed at baking) would have no way to enter. I hardly see that as fair, either.

 

More prizes: I'd be in favor of a sliding percentage scale for this. That would stop the odds from getting to the Mega-Millions lottery scale of impossible.

 

No Prizes: Well, that's a thought, too, but I'd hate to see this go away because a small percentage of people are unhappy they didn't win and all the drama that goes with it.

 

Go strictly with Honorable Mentions only: It's still the same problem, it's just shifting focus from Pretty New Shiny, to Oooo! CB Alts or hybrids! So, no to this as well. In a way we already get that with the Holiday releases anyway.

 

I think I'm done...again.

Edited January 4, 2013 by RMMC

[HeatherMarie]

or whether it will be a new species of dinosaur with cardboard wings and a gift bow on its forehead, AND

.... Now I kinda want to see a sprite like that.

 

From the new OP: Make raffle harder? No thanks!

More prizes? Sure

No raffle at all? Not a popular option, I'm sure, but sometimes when things get so heated, I wonder...

I DO agree that there should be more details about the raffle on the actual site.

[siliconrose]

2) We have no idea whether the prizeling will even be breedable, or whether it will be a new species of dinosaur with cardboard wings and a gift bow on its forehead, AND

I don't really want this, and yet, somehow, I really want it.

 

I also rather like the name prizeling.

[LugiaLover]

Um, I have a question for the thread. What kind of proportion would you think is acceptable? (As it is the most popular option.)

 

I'd really like to see a lot more prizes, but not all prizelings. For example, maybe 100 players could win prizelings, then 100 could win full HM, then 100 could win HM without the choice of holly, etc. There could be prizes like CB Trio vouchers, or CB Black, etc.

 

Any opinions on this idea?

[Thuban]

A mild rebuttal?

 

Because prize dragons will never drop in cave, so multi-clutching in this particular instance will not have quite the same effect.

Possibly breeding will slow down sooner, but not until ratios have evened out yes? If the offspring are that prolific it just means that they spread throughout the community that much faster. The only negative I see associated with that is the trade value goes down faster, and I'm not convinced that's a bad thing either.

 

Prize dragons are unique in that they are the only dragons that are so totally under the control of their owners, so unavailable to the general population except at the whim of the winners.

Spriters alts and other holidays- forced sharing through multi-clutches

Vamps- forced sharing through repulsing

ND's- available to anyone with the patience to learn to make them

Everything else (except discontinued of course) is readily available if you sit through the biomes long enough.

 

I'm probably very much in the minority but I think a lot of the feelings of unfairness would evaporate if the prize dragons were either shared by none (unbreedable) or shared by all (multi-clutch).

 

Bleh, I'm not great at explaining things, so I hope some of this makes some sense.

*In terms of breeding these prize dragons: multi clutches would mean people would have access to the extras sooner, BUT the end result would be less chances of breeding babies in as little as 6 months... compared to the two-ish years it took for tins to hit their repective place in the ratios.*

 

while my numbers in the example are probably nowhere near what the math might actually be.. i did address the fact that i was talking about prize dragons. And what I was trying to explain is that allowing multi clutches puts more into circulation (yay more people can get them) BUT at the same time would likely cause them to slow down on giving eggs much sooner than if only one egg happened a week (because then those people with second gens would be able to breed a ton of times as well, getting the numbers spread around at a slower pace.. rather than all at once).

 

As for "make prizes unbreedable: No. Unless more are being handed out to a larger crowd.. people would get MORE angry about having sprites they have NO chance at obtaining vs having the option of messy ones just to have the sprite. People still spaz over hollies regardless of how messy they are when its their first.

[Tawanda001]

I'm not super crazy about the idea of non breeding prizes, but it would cut down on the resentment over the 2nd and 3rd gens going to the "popular kids" or the "rich kids", you know the players who have already scrolls loaded with rare things they can use to breed trade fodder with.

I also would NOT like to see them multi-clutch like holidays where almost every breeding produces multiple eggs. I was thinking more along the success rates of the breeding or summoning BSAs, in other words, a miniscule success rate. (Just something that would ensure that once in a blue moon some of the lower gens would hit the AP, so that random players at least have a chance and so that those lower gens don't all go to more 'favored' players as it were.)

[skauble]

4. Make getting raffle entries more difficult.

 

The only change I wouldn't mind is the time factor. I know there are people who disagree, but I think that getting people to the site everyday is a positive thing. I think it would be okay to give people two days to visit to get the ticket/tickets, but I still support having folks come every few days.

 

But I admit that's not a very popular idea, for various reasons, so I get why we didn't do it this year.

 

5. More prizes!

 

I don't have a problem with this.

 

6. No prizes.

 

Where is all of this tension that supposedly exists? There's us - barely a drip in the bucket of players - and a few people who get mad when they don't win. But the overwhelming majority of the response since we switched to the raffle seems hugely positive.

 

7. Or just get rid of prize dragons, and give all winners an HM prize

 

Again, I think we're overestimating the amount of complaining or anger there is in regard to this subject.

 

Give a full notice about the event on DC itself, not just a link to the forums.

 

This I fully support.

[cynlee717]

*ahem* Isn't the raffle already limited to whomever completed the recipes in the first place? Why is there a desire/need to limit people even further by making requirements like "bronze trophy" or having been a member for at least a year?

 

And if that's already been said, my apologies.

 

But a raffle is a raffle. And in the real world, the only ones who win a raffle are the ones who buy/have the tickets.

[KageSora]

Um, I have a question for the thread. What kind of proportion would you think is acceptable? (As it is the most popular option.)

 

I'd really like to see a lot more prizes, but not all prizelings. For example, maybe 100 players could win prizelings, then 100 could win full HM, then 100 could win HM without the choice of holly, etc. There could be prizes like CB Trio vouchers, or CB Black, etc.

 

Any opinions on this idea?

I'd like to see it handled as a percentage based on the number of individual players who earned at least one entry.

 

The actual number would change contest to contest depending on the gain or loss of active players/players who care about the raffle.

 

I'd argue for something between 0.5% at the minimum and 5% at the absolute maximum, but 5% seems... A bit high.

 

I personally favor 1%. So, 1% of people who enter will win some sort of prize.

 

 

As for the breakdown of 1st, 2nd, 3rd, HM... Perhaps that, too, could be % based. I'd think it'd kind of have to be, unless TJ wants to sit and do the math every year to figure out how many of each one sounds reasonable for whatever % wins.

 

Maybe 50% win HMs, 25% win 3rd, 15% win 2nd, and 10% win 1st? %s can be tweaked, of course, to get a better balance.

 

 

Also, Re: Bronze Requirement:

 

I've said it before, I'll say it again. I'm not fond of BANNING people from participating or being able to win full prizes. But, I wouldn't be opposed to perhaps getting 10% less entries or something if you have no trophy, or something. It would reward those who have shown dedication to the site, without awarding them an obscene advantage and doesn't actually prevent a person who joined the day before the event started from winning. (In the event it was a 1-per-person thing, then they'd obviously deserve to get their single entry).

 

 

Re: Making entries harder to get:

 

That depends on what you mean by "harder to get". If you mean something like this year, where you did need to work a bit for it, I'm okay with that. If you mean something like the decorating contest... Absolutely not. No sort of "contest" to be voted on to earn entries. As long as it's not crazy hard, I don't see the harm in having people earn their entries.

 

Re: More prizes!

 

YES. As I've said, I'd like a %-based system~ Keeps the odds the same no matter how many or few players enter.

 

Re: No prizes

 

Awww... That'd be sad. I'd say no. I like seeing new dragons, even if it takes me a while (and some good stuff) to get 'em.

 

Re: HMs only

 

This wouldn't be as bad as no prizes, but I'd rather still not go to this. But if it came down to this or no prizes at all, HM only would be better, IMO. But I'd still rather there be actual prizes.

 

Re: Full Notice on-site

 

Yes, that would be good, I think. A link to the forum topic where they can ask questions or discuss with others is okay, but it should have the other information available on the site itself, too. For all events. And new releases.

[Amazon_warrior]

*ahem* Isn't the raffle already limited to whomever completed the recipes in the first place? Why is there a desire/need to limit people even further by making requirements like "bronze trophy" or having been a member for at least a year?

 

And if that's already been said, my apologies.

 

But a raffle is a raffle. And in the real world, the only ones who win a raffle are the ones who buy/have the tickets.

Yep. Frankly, anyone who's managed to complete all the recipes and *then* beats the enormous odds to win something in the raffle jolly well deserves it imo, irrespective of whether or not they're a new or old player and how they choose to play. The cooking thing already skews things in favour of more determined and observant players and forum goers, so in this instance I see no good reason to further tilt the odds. There seems to be some panic about precious prizes landing on the scroll of some clueless newbie who leaves the next day, but realistically how likely is it that such a player would understand the urgency of completing the tasks in the first place? I probably wouldn't have, when I started. But if such a person wins anyway against all the odds? Well, them's the breaks in a random system.

 

As for everything else - ultimately we're at the mercy of whatever TJ decides, though I hope he doesn't decide that raffles and prizes are too much trouble (though as far as I can tell, "trouble" at the moment seems to be limited to this one thread). For all we know, he may have already planned an increase in the number of prizes this year. I'm with Evilminion on this one - without more info it's all just circular speculation, and TJ's so good at playing things close to the chest that he should probably take up professional poker. For my part, I enjoyed doing the recipes and I already *have* something for taking part in the raffle - the leetle badges at the top of my scroll. I just wish I'd had enough internet access over Christmas to do something cool with my gingerbread house. Have I spent time daydreaming about what I'd do with a prize if by some miracle I won one? (I never ever win raffles or lotteries.) Sure I have, but since that'd be my business and my dragon I won't try and justify my "worthiness" as a potential winner by elaborating here.

 

Also, TJ's news post mentions no numbers whatsoever - am I the only one who would find it hugely amusing if the number of prizes given this year remains a secret even after the eggs have been given out? If no one knows how many there are, then no one can complain if some go MIA...

 

*wanders off to find a sketch pad and doodle Dinos with cardboard wings and bows*

[KageSora]

Also, TJ's news post mentions no numbers whatsoever - am I the only one who would find it hugely amusing if the number of prizes given this year remains a secret even after the eggs have been given out? If no one knows how many there are, then no one can complain if some go MIA...

Who said the eggs have been given out? We don't know for sure that they have--just because the event is over doesn't mean they've all been handed out. TJ could have other things to do, or it could take him a little while to contact the winners.

[Amazon_warrior]

Who said the eggs have been given out? We don't know for sure that they have--just because the event is over doesn't mean they've all been handed out. TJ could have other things to do, or it could take him a little while to contact the winners.

*scratches head* Eh? As far as I know, the raffle hasn't even been drawn yet, never mind prizes handed out. I was just pointing out that TJ gave no indication in his announcement about the number of prizes or how they would be broken down (if they are at all this year). He may decide to maintain this level of mystery, or he may reveal more when he announces the draw. Who knows?

[KageSora]

Haha, sorry, I missed that "if" in there when I read your post. The dangers of forum-browsing while tired, I suppose!

[PinkyHedgehog]

Spam removed. Edited January 10, 2013 by SockPuppet Strangler

[skauble]

Also, Re: Bronze Requirement:

 

I've said it before, I'll say it again.  I'm not fond of BANNING people from participating or being able to win full prizes.  But, I wouldn't be opposed to perhaps getting 10% less entries or something if you have no trophy, or something.  It would reward those who have shown dedication to the site, without awarding them an obscene advantage and doesn't actually prevent a person who joined the day before the event started from winning.  (In the event it was a 1-per-person thing, then they'd obviously deserve to get their single entry).

This isn't a suggestion, so don't freak out and jump on me, people of the thread.

 

But I think that if there was going to be a reward system then it would be much better to reward consistent activity and do it for everyone.

 

For instance, if players - no matter how many dragons they have - click in in January, then they get a raffle ticket, clicking in in February will get another, and so on. Those would then be added to whatever total people got in the Christmas event.

 

That would encourage players of all levels to keep checking in to the site, which leads to things like seeing when new dragons are released, breeding, etc. which heightens the chance that they'll continue to be active.

 

And if you miss a month or two (and I say this as someone who has, at times), then it's not a huge deal because there's still all of the Christmas entries to gather. Yes, people who join in December will have less tickets than someone who played all year, but that's not because of some exclusionary policy, but more along the lines of how you don't get CB Holiday dragons if you join after that holiday. It's nothing about them as a player, but rather the natural circumstances of joining a game that's already in play.

 

Again, not a suggestion, just saying. lol My actual suggestion would be to automatically give me a prize dragon every year which I then promise I will breed. See - compromise! (That's not really a suggestion either )

[Swissalo]

4. For those people who didn't have/use the forum during recipe creation, it was challenging. Trying to figure out what/how to make everything, got me frustrated for a while, it might have frustrated a lot of others to the point of quiting. So they didn't go to red-star recipes, so they don't have raffle tickets.

 

5. I'm okay with this, it could be something like a low set number percent vs the number of people who enter, it would be a fair representation of the raffle. But then so is there are X many prizes, you generated Y many tickets, enter at your own risk.

Or we never get an exact number, as Amazon_warrior suggests. I kind of like that idea to be honest. Because people don't realize how many/little were handed out, you can't really complain about something you don't know about. Or they are put on the scroll as adults.

 

6/7. Might head that way with all this. I don't see how the raffle made everything tense. I've entered raffles throughout my life and I've won maybe one or two of them. But I'm never upset, never tense about it. TJ told everyone the rules to the game before it started, everyone knew what to expect. The prize is something he's kind enough to give out at the end. He certainly doesn't have to do so.

 

8. I totally agree with, everyone should have equal opportunities. Though I think that a lot of people still might check the forum, it was posted... You only have to be a member to post, you don't have to have membership to look at all the forums on here. But on the flipside equal opportunities make for more entries which make for a lower chance of winning something.

 

On Multi-Clutch

 

While there are times when I miss my dragons having twins/triplets/quads. For the most part I enjoy the one egg produced from breeding, just because there are times when I want to keep all my dragon's offspring. For example, I have a group of dragons that I've been naming a certain way, once they had twins, and the second egg went to someone else, was named by it's owner to fit the group, but was later released. As the way of the game is. But I'd rather have one egg at a time and decide if I wanted to keep it or give it up to someone else. I'm not opposed to sharing.

 

[skauble]

As for everything else - ultimately we're at the mercy of whatever TJ decides, though I hope he doesn't decide that raffles and prizes are too much trouble (though as far as I can tell, "trouble" at the moment seems to be limited to this one thread).

Have to totally agree here. On the chart of Holiday freak outs in the history of DC, this is like 1 on a scale of 100, IMO.

 

Also, TJ's news post mentions no numbers whatsoever - am I the only one who would find it hugely amusing if the number of prizes given this year remains a secret even after the eggs have been given out?    If no one knows how many there are, then no one can complain if some go MIA..

Actually, this isn't all that bad of an idea. If he gave out a percentage based on entries then he could simply tell us the percentage and we wouldn't have to know the specifics. The search for all the prizes might actually be fun. lol

[KageSora]

This isn't a suggestion, so don't freak out and jump on me, people of the thread.

 

But I think that if there was going to be a reward system then it would be much better to reward consistent activity and do it for everyone.

 

For instance, if players - no matter how many dragons they have - click in in January, then they get a raffle ticket, clicking in in February will get another, and so on. Those would then be added to whatever total people got in the Christmas event.

 

That would encourage players of all levels to keep checking in to the site, which leads to things like seeing when new dragons are released, breeding, etc. which heightens the chance that they'll continue to be active.

 

And if you miss a month or two (and I say this as someone who has, at times), then it's not a huge deal because there's still all of the Christmas entries to gather. Yes, people who join in December will have less tickets than someone who played all year, but that's not because of some exclusionary policy, but more along the lines of how you don't get CB Holiday dragons if you join after that holiday. It's nothing about them as a player, but rather the natural circumstances of joining a game that's already in play.

Ohhhh! I actually really like that. It rewards players who stick around longer, but it doesn't bar anybody from completing the event to obtain the full number of event-only entries.

 

And, of course, it could be altered so that it's not 12 extra entries per person, if that would be too many, but you could start the clicking two or three months in advance to give an extra 2 or 3 to people.

 

Even if you said it's not a suggestion, I really like that.

 

And, as you said, it would encourage people to continue to return to the site, at least once a month, which is good for DC from a money-making perspective.

[beacker1160]

I am not doing this for my own personal gain. I know I will never win, and I don't mind. I just hate seeing others win and then leave straight away. That is of no benefit to anyone.

I agree, it is kind of disappointing to see people get prizes, then quit soon. I know that feeling. But, still, it isn't fair to exclude new players, though I do get the point of why people think we should do that. I don't think any side is completely right, though I am leaning towards at least some small way of restricting "Just Registered" or "Day 1" players. True, it would make it 'unfair', but that's the fact of life and if all of the prize dragons end up going to people who quit, then what can we do?

 

Also something I'd like to point out (forgive me if this has been pointed out before as I haven't read the whole lengthy thread), there are MANY, MANY more new players than there are experienced players. Though I do imagine many of these new players WILL stick around for a very long time, A LOT of them will quit and that is unavoidable and normal for every game designed like this. So, maybe we can have some sort of balance between being fair to the 'fresh and new' players and considering the 'older' players who have less of a chance of quitting.

 

I'm not offering any solutions, just pointing out that it's important to be fair but also we shouldn't just ignore the other side. Just because some of us are committed to 100% fairness doesn't mean the other side doesn't have a point. Remember that it is disappointing to see new players get dragons and then vanish from DC. But also keep in mind that a raffle is meant to be fair and not have the odds progressively stacked in older and older players' favors.

[skauble]

And, as you said, it would encourage people to continue to return to the site, at least once a month, which is good for DC from a money-making perspective.

It would also allow those who talk about missing some/all of the event because they can't get on during the busy holidays to still participate in the raffle...

 

But I didn't say that because it's not a suggestion.

 

I agree, it is kind of disappointing to see people get prizes, then quit soon. I know that feeling. But, still, it isn't fair to exclude new players, though I do get the point of why people think we should do that. I don't think any side is completely right, though I am leaning towards at least some small way of restricting "Just Registered" or "Day 1" players. True, it would make it 'unfair', but that's the fact of life and if all of the prize dragons end up going to people who quit, then what can we do?

 

Also something I'd like to point out (forgive me if this has been pointed out before as I haven't read the whole lengthy thread), there are MANY, MANY more new players than there are experienced players. Though I do imagine many of these new players WILL stick around for a very long time, A LOT of them will quit and that is unavoidable and normal for every game designed like this. So, maybe we can have some sort of balance between being fair to the 'fresh and new' players and considering  the 'older' players who have less of a chance of quitting.

 

I'm not offering any solutions, just pointing out that it's important to be fair but also we shouldn't just ignore the other side. Just because some of us are committed to 100% fairness doesn't mean the other side doesn't have a point. Remember that it is disappointing to see new players get dragons and then vanish from DC. But also keep in mind that a raffle is meant to be fair and not have the odds progressively stacked in older and older players' favors.

 

But I think Fuzz was right when she said that it then becomes not about who will win, but what they do with their prize. The site doesn't favor breeding just like it doesn't favor things like CBs over lineage dragons. So if the site doesn't favor breeding, then I'm not sure why would the contest favor people who are more likely to breed.

 

And while I can definitely see the appeal of having more prize dragon offspring, this ultimately ends up being about giving prizes to people we feel are more likely to breed them. And, again, while I get the argument behind it, that kind of boils down to - You can't have a shot at the prize because it decreases my chance of getting a piece of your winnings.

 

I just don't think that's a good criteria for excluding a portion of our players.

[Riku-Heartilly]

I didn't even know there was this thread until like....today

I could never imagine something like this being up for debate on account of the raffle being fair as it is.

 

I've scrolled through a couple pages noting people suggesting that active users get dragons over inactive users but I must ask this

 

What exactly do you 'define' as active? The definition of an active user will most likely vary per person.

 

For example, I do not collect dragons too often but I lurk the forums almost always and check my dragons rather often. But because I do not collect eggs (and have a silver trophy still over a gold one) that would 'deem myself' as inactive according to the way some of you folks have explained it.

 

Everyone plays differently. Just because you see something inactive doesn't always mean it's inactive for the other party.

 

I don't have any qualms with the way the raffle is done presently. Everyone who entered had to complete red star recipes as it was. I'm not too comfortable with the idea of blocking off the raffle prizes to other parts of the forum depending on your personal view of what is inactive and/or their 'rank'(Trophy wise).

 

I really think the trophy thing is a flawed arguement in itself, many active users do not have gold or even silver trophies, some play without a bronze trophy even. I've been playing since like 2008 and I still have yet to get a gold trophy.

[Kestra15]

I would argue it would be more fair. What if all five top prizes went to gold trophy members, or if all ten silvers went to no trophy accounts? That would feel biased and unfair.

Or biased and unfair against people like myself, who have been here some four years, but I only have a bronze trophy. Not because I'm inactive - far from it! - but my own playstyle is that I'm not bothered about having hundreds of the same type of dragon. For the majority of dragons I will only ever have two of each breed - a male and a female - and even then only if I like the sprites.

 

Your trophy does not reflect your 'dedication' to the game.

 

Leave the raffle as it is. It's about as fair as it can ever be.

[Fuzzbucket]

Nope, you aren't the only one, I was thinking the same

 

Seriously, something as simple as hiding the real number of prizes seems like an interesting idea...

That would be BRILLIANT ! I would SO support that. A TOTAL end to some of the griping in this kind of thread in one stroke !

 

Though I would still like to see that number tied to a proportion of entries and for us to know what the percentage was - it somehow makes you FEEL you are in with a chance if you can be sure there isn't - say - JUST ONE - and we would never know how many entries there were, so it would still be a secret how many prizes there were.

[DarkEternity]

I support hiding the number of prize dragons given out. Would actually be a very clever move.