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TheGrox

ANSWERED:Raffle Rethink?

Should we increase the number of raffle Prizes given out?  

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I was thinking, I know some players have issues with the raffle system is at the moment. So, I have a few ideas to bounce around, which would tweak the current system and hopefully improve it for everyone.

 

The raffle as it stands at the moment is fair, and probably the fairest it could be, so why change it? Well, to use an example from my own experience; I contacted some of the 2012 prize winners last year. I traded for a place on at least 3 lists for 2nd gens. But all 3 owners have now completely left DC. Because, let's face it, most, if not all prizes last year were given out to newer players. Some of whom were inexperienced with trading and using the forums, and probably couldn't handle the pressure of having their inboxes spammed with requests. Others, it seemed, were inexperienced with breeding and just merely playing DC at all.

 

Whilst I am not fully against newer players winning, it does somewhat demoralise players who have been here for years on DC and have been given little reward for their dedication. And to see a CB Tinsel winner leave without ever breeding their tinsel, is quite annoying, when you know you would have done so much more with it.

 

Giving out a tinsel and having it never breed due to a player leaving is, in my opinion, rather counter-productive to DC as a whole. Tinsels created a lot of trading and lineage opportunities, but giving out tinsels to players which leave DC without breeding them ruins the whole point of giving them out. It would be more helpful to DC as a whole if the tinsels are bred, giving other players the chance to collect lineages and such. Apparently I'm not allowed an opinion.

 

 

But, how can we improve the raffle, without making it unfair? Well, here are the suggestions so far:

 

1. Limiting who can enter the raffle. For example, adding the requirement that players have at least a Bronze Trophy to enter the raffle. Once a player is Bronze, they are less likely to leave as newer players. However, the main concern is that new players are left out completely.

 

2. Some Bonus Raffle entries. - based upon Trophy level or previous year's raffle entries. This does not exclude new players in the way idea 1 does, as they'd still be able to get the basic raffle entries. But it could still be seen as unfair. Apparently excluding anyone from a raffle is 'unfair'.

 

3. Back to the 2011 way. Many of 2011's CB tinsel winners were more experienced players, and most are still active today. The 2011 Tree Decorating Contest was obviously not fair, but it was at least a fun and engaging contest, much more so than the raffle we have nowadays. Apparently contests are too 'unfair'.

 

4. Make getting raffle entries more difficult. This is slightly better this year, as recipes do require a bit more effort than reading stories like last year. But maybe make it even harder to gain the last few raffle entries you want? Just to make things a bit more interesting.

 

5. More prizes! This seems to be the most popular idea so far, as it would decrease slightly the rarity of prizes, stopping the few members that do get them being spammed with requests just as much, and it spreads them around a bit more. Possible numbers suggested range from 100 - 500. Another possibility is increasing the number of prizes proportionally to the amount of entries.

 

6. No prizes. The raffle creates so much tension and problems, that we could get rid of it completely.

 

7. Or just get rid of prize dragons, and give all winners an HM prize, so there would be no new super rare dragon for people to complain about.

 

8. (A little addition rather than alteration to the raffle itself) Give a full notice about the event on DC itself, not just a link to the forums. Some people can't/don't come on the forums for whatever reason, they still need to be informed.

 

Remember: attack the discussion, not each other. I think we're long past this now. ~Removed~.

Edited by _Z_

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Perhaps just make it so that only people who have been around for at least a year OR have at least a Bronze Trophy can win? That would prevent people who joined yesterday from winning. The reason for doing so? That people who joined yesterday are more likely to quit DC in a week then, say, someone who's been playing for three years or someone who's gained a lot of dragons in a short time.

 

The only other thing I can think of is that if someone wins a raffle and then WITHIN A MONTH AFTER WINNING goes inactive, and remains inactive for a year, then the prize dragon is tacked on as an extra prize for next year's lotto... but I think the idea of someone possibly losing a dragon is more controversial than my above idea, ehehe.

 

And if anyone wants to question if there's a problem with the current system: measure the amount of the first round Tinsel winners still active to those who won last year's. I still don't even KNOW about most of last year's Tinsels, which suggests that they're not being used/their owners have likely quit. When you have such a small starting population of a breed to begin with, giving them out to people who often have a larger likelihood than most of quitting within a month isn't a good thing.

 

Known 2010 Tinsels: 5 Golds, 10 Silvers, 15 Bronze [FULL 30 TOTAL]

Known 2011 Tinsels: 2 Golds, 8 Silvers, 8 Bronze [18 TOTAL]

 

That's slightly over a third of the 2011 Tinsels unaccounted for... likely because of people who left.

Edited by angelicdragonpuppy

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Perhaps just make it so that only people who have been around for at least a year OR have at least a Bronze Trophy can win? That would prevent people who joined yesterday from winning. The reason for doing so? That people who joined yesterday are more likely to quit DC in a week then, say, someone who's been playing for three years or someone who's gained a lot of dragons in a short time.

I quite like this. I think 'at least a bronze trophy' Would do. It doesn't take too long to gather that many dragons. Now really new people would whine, but like I said getting a bronze doesn't take TOO long and shows you're willing to keep playing. For those who say just joined before christmas, there will always be next year.

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I'm not for it. It's up to the user what they do with their dragons. Just cause an older player gets it is no guarantee that the dragon will be bred and the lineage distributed, just as a newer player getting it is no guarantee it won't either. I know if I ever get a prize, I don't plan on breeding it out for public consumption, just keep the babies on my scroll. It's the owner's decision how they use their dragon; a prize winner has no obligation to breed their dragon for anyone.

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Its not TJ's fault the owners of some of the prize dragons left but that shouldn't force him to change how the raffle is done. People come and go every year, that is the norm here and will also be so.

 

New or old players should have EQUAL chances at any and all raffles every year, it is completly unfair to exempt ANYONE from events, this includes raffles.

 

If the owner leaves or just plain doesn't want to breed their awarded dragon, thats their decision, we cannot force them nor will TJ force the issue.

 

Just like with spriter alts, we don't have to breed our differently colored dragons so people can have them in lovely lineages yet we do because we wish to, not because we are being forced to.

 

Leave the raffle as it is.

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I'm not for it. It's up to the user what they do with their dragons. Just cause an older player gets it is no guarantee that the dragon will be bred and the lineage distributed, just as a newer player getting it is no guarantee it won't either. I know if I ever get a prize, I don't plan on breeding it out for public consumption, just keep the babies on my scroll. It's the owner's decision how they use their dragon; a prize winner has no obligation to breed their dragon for anyone.

They aren't obligated to breed it, but it would be nice if they didn't quit the game shortly after winning it.

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a prize winner has no obligation to breed their dragon for anyone.

This is true.

 

 

Though that would be easier to accept than the user quitting the next day after they win because they never intended to play long anyway. or the scroll being burned or something.

 

 

Though I guess sometimes these things can't be avoided, while still making everything fair... blink.gif

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I'm not for it. It's up to the user what they do with their dragons. Just cause an older player gets it is no guarantee that the dragon will be bred and the lineage distributed, just as a newer player getting it is no guarantee it won't either. I know if I ever get a prize, I don't plan on breeding it out for public consumption, just keep the babies on my scroll. It's the owner's decision how they use their dragon; a prize winner has no obligation to breed their dragon for anyone.

I wouldn't mind someone breeding the dragon only for themselves - it's their decision. But giving it to someone who quits the next day and never does anything constructive with it is much worse.

 

Known 2010 Tinsels: 5 Golds, 10 Silvers, 15 Bronze [FULL 30 TOTAL]

Known 2011 Tinsels: 2 Golds, 8 Silvers, 8 Bronze [18 TOTAL]

 

That's slightly over a third of the 2011 Tinsels unaccounted for... likely because of people who left.

There was at least one (possibly more?) who was known to have had their scroll burned just after they got their egg too. But I guess most have just left altogether. Maybe some prizes even died because of newbies not knowing how to care for them?

 

Also, I added the Bronze Trophy idea to the OP. =)

Edited by TheGrox

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And whats to prevent other winners from leaving the site nearly a year later? Its the same situation your complaining about with new players.

 

Remember, bronze/silver/gold trophys =/= staying on the site every year.

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At the very minimum I'd like it to be so that only people who've been playing for a month can win, although I'd still prefer 6 months OR a Bronze Trophy. Getting a Bronze Trophy requires less than two months of work (eggs hatch in 3 days min, average month is 30 days = 40 dragons per month). I don't think it's too much to ask for.

 

Dolphinsong, even if they quit then, at least they appreciated it for a year first (and maybe passed the offspring on to the rest of the playing population). It's not about eliminating quitting entirely, it's about increasing the odds that it'll go to someone who won't quit, or at least not for a long time.

Edited by angelicdragonpuppy

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With the way this year's raffle is being done there is less of a chance that someone that doesn't use the forums will win. Even people that have been playing for years can't seem to figure out the recipes and are either asking for help or complaining that it's frustrating. People that never use the forums are likely to give up after a while when none of the obvious combinations work. *shrug* And people that use the forum regularly are less likely to quit the game completely, although it has happened a few times.

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And whats to prevent other winners from leaving the site nearly a year later? Its the same situation your complaining about with new players.

 

Remember, bronze/silver/gold trophys =/= staying on the site every year.

I see what you are saying, but it's more likely that someone with a certain trophy level will, by that time, be addicted to the game (like we all are tongue.gif) and stick around at least for a while. As far as I know, more newer players leave than older players. They at least are less likely to leave straight after winning, as most older players know the value of what they have won and what they could do with it. Even if they breed a few offspring and then leave, it is better than leaving straight away.

Edited by TheGrox

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I think it should be left as it is, to be honest. How can you know someone who joined yesterday won't stick around ? And look at all the posts from people who say they are back after two years or something.

 

Fairness is equal chances for ALL players. And heck, if you lived through that baking contest you ARE committed xd.png

 

Contests based on SUBJECTIVE issues (that tree) are palpably unfair as raffles and I would not bother entering another of them. It was quite obvious to me that my tastes in trees were very different from those of the majority - should that rule me out of a chance at a prize ? NOT if it is a raffle. But IRL you don't bother to enter a contest if you know you haven't the right skills to win.

 

A raffle HAS to allow ANYONE who meets the conditions to enter on the same basis as everyone else. That's the POINT of them. Raffles are by their very essence open to anyone who "buys a ticket" - as in participates. They are NOT "judged".

 

edited for typefails....

Edited by fuzzbucket

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Leave the raffle as it is.

 

I totally agree!

 

New and old players should have equal chances.

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A raffle HAS to allow ANYONE who meets the conditions to enter on the same basis as everyone else. That's the POINT of them. Raffles are by their very essence open to anyone who "buys a ticket" - as in participates. They are NOT "judged".

In RL, there's an age limit on buying lotto tickets, at least where I'm at. You don't just have to buy the ticket, you have to be eligible to buy the ticket. That's what we want: some very, very minimum requirement before someone can buy their 'ticket.' As I mentioned above, it takes less than two months of playing to earn a Bronze Trophy. Is that so much to ask for?

 

Again, it's not about STOPPING people from quitting, it's about lessening the ODDS that someone will quit. It is true that some people who just started playing will be around for a long, long time, but it also seems to be true (from what I've seen, anyway) that newer members are more likely to quit after a month then people who've stuck with the game for a while already.

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I think it should be left as it is, to be honest. How can you know someone who joined yesterday won't stick around ? And look at all the posts from people who say they are back after two years or something.

 

Fairness is equal chances for ALL players. And heck, if you lived through that baking contest you ARE committed xd.png

 

Contests based on SUBJECTIVE issues (that tree) are palpably unfair as raffles and I would not bother entering another of them. It was quite obvious to me that my tastes in trees were very different from those of the majority - should that rule me out of a chance at a prize ? NOT if it is a raffle. But IRL you don't bother to enter a contest if you know you haven't the right skills to win.

 

A raffle HAS to allow ANYONE who meets the conditions to enter on the same basis as everyone else. That's the POINT of them. Raffles are by their very essence open to anyone who "buys a ticket" - as in participates. They are NOT "judged".

 

edited for typefails....

This. A thousand times this.

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Winning a prize shouldn't be an obligation. They certainly don't owe you anything.

 

New players have as much right to win as anyone else. You just want to raise the odds that YOU will win. That's hardly fair. If you think it is, then how about this instead, "No one who's been here more than a year can win" After all, you've had your chance already.

 

Punishing new players for being new is the best way to not HAVE any new players.

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I totally agree!

 

New and old players should have equal chances.

But you yourself Aamaranthine won when you had been here for a couple of years. And you're still here now =3

 

I wonder if you would still have the same opinion if the 2011 contest had been a raffle. You would have probably been less likely to win.

 

 

Winning a prize shouldn't be an obligation. They certainly don't owe you anything.

 

New players have as much right to win as anyone else. You just want to raise the odds that YOU will win. That's hardly fair. If you think it is, then how about this instead, "No one who's been here more than a year can win" After all, you've had your chance already.

 

Punishing new players for being new is the best way to not HAVE any new players.

 

I am not doing this for my own personal gain. I know I will never win, and I don't mind. I just hate seeing others win and then leave straight away. That is of no benefit to anyone.

 

New players won't choose not to play because of this. In fact, it would give them a goal to reach if they weren't in this year's raffle, so that they get into the next one.

Edited by TheGrox

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I see a huge problem with the suggested change, and I must say that I'm against them, as unhappy as I am with the raffle system itself.

 

First of all, every player can leave, no matter how long they have been active. I've been here for three years, but if I had a stroke or something, I wouldn't be able to breed a new prize dragon, either. I could also decide to leave, or not to breed my prize dragon for anyone but myself.

 

One thing I'd really like to see change is the amount of prize dragons being given out. For the tree decorating contest, we had tens of thousands of entries, which means that we had that many active players. And yet, there were only 30 prize dragons handed out each year, plus 25 honorable mention prizes. If my memory isn't faulty, the number of tinsel winners amounted to less than 0.2% of all players - or was it 0.02%? I'm not exactly sure about the numbers any more. In any case, this is really a very low percentage of winners, especially if you consider that winning a CB tinsel was like a permission to print money - or the equivalent of wealth on DC, eg. rare dragons.

 

Why not change the raffle to something where everybody who participates successfully has a guarantee to get one of the prize dragons? Who would it hurt? There would still only be one CB per scroll (unless people traded away their CBs - and in such a case, TJ should definitely check the IPs), and people would be better able to create lineages.

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But you yourself Aamaranthine won when you had been here for a couple of years. And you're still here now =3

 

I wonder if you would still have the same opinion if the 2011 contest had been a raffle. You would have probably been less likely to win.

The fact she has a prize doesn't make her opinion any less valid?

 

Winning a prize also doesn't entail the requirement to keep playing, so I still see no reason for this.

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I'm not for this. It doesn't seem that welcoming to new players who are told that they can't win a prize because they haven't been here long enough (or even to make it more difficult). Probably one of the issues with the tinsels last year vs. the year before was that they weren't new and exciting. Everyone knew what they were going to be and they weren't as special and valuable. I think that's why we don't know where all of them are.

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Why not change the raffle to something where everybody who participates successfully has a guarantee to get one of the prize dragons? Who would it hurt? There would still only be one CB per scroll (unless people traded away their CBs - and in such a case, TJ should definitely check the IPs), and people would be better able to create lineages.

The problem with giving them to everyone is that then they're not worth anything at all, really.

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I think there is a larger issue that you are totally missing (or choosing not to see). A lot of the 'missing' Tinsel's from last year were actually won by people that don't use the forums. At least one was won by someone that had their scroll burnt, you don't have to be a newbie to get your scroll burnt (this was a case of multi-scrolling of I recall correctly).

 

So what you really want is for winners to be only people that use the forum and are willing to trade their offspring. Which is completely unfair.

 

 

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The fact she has a prize doesn't make her opinion any less valid?

 

Winning a prize also doesn't entail the requirement to keep playing, so I still see no reason for this.

I wasn't saying her opinion was any less valid, I was merely stating that when she won a prize, the system was much different. Everyone's opinions are equally valid.

 

I think there is a larger issue that you are totally missing (or choosing not to see). A lot of the 'missing' Tinsel's from last year were actually won by people that don't use the forums.

 

Are you sure about this? How can you know? But the fact still stands that most of the ones I do know about, who did use the forums, left.

Edited by TheGrox

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I can see it being shouted as "unfair", but if there is a limitation, bronze trophy is the best qualification I can see. It isn't that hard to get if someone tries. The only active members it would exclude are those who join too close to the time of the event to get 50 dragons.

 

After all, if someone has had an account for more than enough time to get a bronze trophy [without incubate] and has not gotten that trophy it does not bode well for them remaining active in the future, if the site hasn't held their attention long enough to even get 50 dragons.

 

The other thing is, the event isn't a very good way to weed out people who aren't interested in dragcave. If the person happens to be on during the event [or checks to see if this site does something cool for xmas], even if normal dragcave bores the heck out of them they are likely to participate in the event. Why? Because the events, especially this cooking event, tend to be a lot more interesting to someone whose attention is not held by the day-to-day dragcave, so they are more likely to stick around and do it, even if they don't care about the pixel dragons.

 

 

 

Crazy thinking ahead, don't really take it seriously. x3

 

 

There is also the argument that the qualifications should be even stricter. Say, gold trophy level. Why? Because they are likely to have met most, if not all, of their scroll goals and have moved on to things other than simple dragon acquisition. [They are also the least likely to leave in general] I talked to a tinsel winner who said that dragcave quickly became boring for them after they won because it became too easy. They could get whatever they still needed in a snap and it was getting boring. An older player is less likely to succumb to this because the thrill of catching/trading for their CB gold, etc, already happened, they're not missing out on anything like a new player would be.

 

I'm not necessarily saying that it should be gold trophy only, I'm just saying that if we were going to really try to maximize the "usefulness" of prize dragons it would be something to think about.

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