ANSWERED:Raffle Rethink?

[Fuzzbucket]

TJ should be more open about the ratios and that sort of thing, nobody know how it works so it is hard to speculate what effect certain suggetions like this will have on the ratios :c

I don't think TJ "should" do anything... His game, his rools !

 

But I'm sure he will be watching this thread

[Dolphinsong]

Fairest way to handle this is simple. Increase the number of prize dragons by at least 50 total. And in the future all events, when announced on the fourms, also have a small news notice at the top of the cave itself (and not just have it link to the news thread as some arn't allowed on the fourms due to age or other restrictions)

[fainewebbe]

Just wondering (I'll probably get bashed for saying this, but): Everyone who argued so forcibly against having any limitation or any change to the raffle, would you all be happy if this year, all the prizes that were given out went to newbies, who all subsequently allowed them to die or left without breeding? So you would never be able to get any of the new prize? Whilst far-fetched, it could happen, and is in no way as far-fetched as some scenarios that people have come up with so far to argue against my points.

 

Just something to think about. :3

I'd be fine with that as well. I'm not owed anything by the new prize winners, nor am I entitled to any portion of what they win. To me, this is a lottery. There's a one in a bazillion chance I'll win and in no way would I ever expect a lottery winner, whom I don't know, to give me some of their winnings.

 

I'm thankful that we have a chance to win at all, and if I don't win, I'm no worse off than I was before. I have two beautiful new Christmas dragons (thank you, aangs-sister!) and I had a great time decorating my gingerbread house (thank you all artists who contributed). All-in-all, a nice Christmas at the Cave.

[TheGrox]

Guys, I suggested this before and it got ignored, but some people on the IRC think it's a good idea so...

 

Why not just not give out prizes, just a load of HM's?

Edited December 31, 2012 by TheGrox

[Fuzzbucket]

Guys, I suggested this before and it got ignored, but some people on the IRC think it's a good idea so...

 

Why not just not give out prizes, just a load of HM's?[/i]

Fine by me.

 

Especially if Frills are still in there (That would have been what I went for if this year's had been tinsels...)

[Dolphinsong]

TJ already stated new prize dragons, there is no changing that. So just giving out HMs is out of the question.

[Pixxelation]

To prevent that from happening, I think your trophy level should unlock that category; people without trophies can only get HM, Bronzes can get Bronze and HM, Silvers can get Silver, Bronze, or HM, and Golds can get Gold, Bronze, Silver, or HM. That way you have to prove you're able to take care of a rarer dragon.

[olympe]

Actually, if that happened I'd be ok with it, because the current system is as fair as the collected minds giving input can make it. So if that happened, it'd just be the way things are. Not bashing you over the question, but still, I'd just shrug and go on.

 

The only one of the suggestions made in this thread that I'd be in favor of is an increase in the number of prizes given out. I don't know for sure how many of them I'd like to be the new prize dragons, but at least somewhat of an increase there, with the bulk of the increase being HM prizes. Let's get more CB Hollies into circulation. And if the chances were a bit more encouraging maybe people wouldn't only choose CB Hollies for their HM prize, but other cool things. I for one would really like a CB Shallow Water. With the low odds right now I don't think I'd choose that if I won, because it would probably be my only ever chance at a CB Holly.

 

As for the rest of the suggestions, in my opinion they aren't very fair across the game. No support from me on those.

You know, if there was a fair chance to win an HM, I'd totally go for a (female) CB geode. After I got my CB gold and stuff.

 

Maybe we can have two levels of honorable mention - the really rare kind of HM prize (like CB holly, CB gold...) and the impossibly-to-get-CB-of-otherwise kind of HM prize (Okay, once again the holly, but also colored stripes, CB alts, CB crossbreeds/breed-only breeds, CB frills...)

[Dolphinsong]

To prevent that from happening, I think your trophy level should unlock that category; people without trophies can only get HM, Bronzes can get Bronze and HM, Silvers can get Silver, Bronze, or HM, and Golds can get Gold, Bronze, Silver, or HM. That way you have to prove you're able to take care of a rarer dragon.

Ummmm no, just no. That is placing restrictions on a RAFFLE, which is ment to be as fair as possible. Restrictions =/= fair.

[sheppardkid]

Guys, I suggested this before and it got ignored, but some people on the IRC think it's a good idea so...

 

Why not just not give out prizes, just a load of HM's?[/i]

I wouldn't mind this for NEXT year if there is another raffle. It'd keep this year's prize a bit more on the rarer side while allowing for the populations of things like CB Hollies and Frills to increase a bit.

[Rally Vincent]

Just wondering (I'll probably get bashed for saying this, but): Everyone who argued so forcibly against having any limitation or any change to the raffle, would you all be happy if this year, all the prizes that were given out went to newbies, who all subsequently allowed them to die or left without breeding? So you would never be able to get any of the new prize? Whilst far-fetched, it could happen, and is in no way as far-fetched as some scenarios that people have come up with so far to argue against my points.

 

Just something to think about. :3

If they won the raffle, they won the raffle. Where is the problem?

[siliconrose]

I don't think DC is really growing by leaps and bounds every year. I wouldn't be surprised if there is a very slowly increasing active player-base.

[Jocosa]

Guys, I suggested this before and it got ignored, but some people on the IRC think it's a good idea so...

 

Why not just not give out prizes, just a load of HM's?[/i]

 

I could get behind that next year. Sounds good to me. I would have a horrible time deciding what I wanted if I won, but I'd be thrilled with whatever it was. I don't *need* something brand new and shiny. I would not mind, of course, but I'd be happy with either.

 

A big fat no to the prize breakdown by trophy level that was just suggested. Again, because I feel everyone that is active, whether they have 1 dragon or 1500 dragons, deserves a shot at the same prizes. A trophy color is not always a good indicator of how well someone cares for their dragons anyway.

 

As for how would I feel if all new players won, then left or let them die? I'd be bummed but I'd get over it. Old players leave as well. Or have eggs die. It is honestly no different then people winning then choosing not to breed, or breeding but keeping on their scroll. Either way, the 2Gs are not going out to the population. And the odds of it being all new players, who then all leave or kill them, has to be about on the same level as someone winning a prize dragon for a second time. Actually, probably much lower then that.

[schmupti]

Don't try to speak for whitebaron, nor downplay his opinion. What may feel awkward for you may not at all for someone else. If I knew my stuff on the issue but I was new, I would like to join in with a discussion, it would make me feel more like part of the site.

With respect, Sturmschwinge was not claming to speak for anyone. Ironically, he was pointing out that whitebaron doesn't speak for all new users, since whitebaron was held up as an example of a new user supporting the proposed changes.

 

And also pointing out that a thread consisting of older users contemplating ways to exclude newer users from winning valuable CB prize dragons might be considered somewhat intimidating. I know, we've moved on to discussing raising the number of prizes released, but this post WAS several pages back.

 

As for the suggestion of just releasing HMs, Lyth (Frill spriter) has already said she'd disallow Frills from this kind of use, because she feels it goes against the spirit of things. No Frills, no Old Pinks--folks could still request a CB Holly or metal, but that 'spirit of things' discussion might be worth revisiting on this point.

 

[Edited for clarity. Still mud, but clearer mud!]

Edited December 31, 2012 by schmupti

[HeatherMarie]

Fairest way to handle this is simple. Increase the number of prize dragons by at least 50 total. And in the future all events, when announced on the fourms, also have a small news notice at the top of the cave itself (and not just have it link to the news thread as some arn't allowed on the fourms due to age or other restrictions)

This is a VERY good point. Until very recently, "events" were not mentioned on the actual site at all. In order for the raffle to be TRULY fair, it would have to be open to users who don't use the forum, too. Meaning the need for information in the cave about it.

[TheGrox]

TJ already stated new prize dragons, there is no changing that. So just giving out HMs is out of the question.

I meant for next year, assuming there is a raffle. As I said in the OP, we can;t change anything about this year really.

 

(Edit because I quoted the wrong post... sorry Pie, if you noticed, I didn't mean your post o_O)

Edited December 31, 2012 by TheGrox

[Wookieinmashoo]

Guys, I suggested this before and it got ignored, but some people on the IRC think it's a good idea so...

 

Why not just not give out prizes, just a load of HM's?[/i]

I would have been fine with this from the beginning. I would be fine with prize dragons never have existing, either of them. I think someone in the thread for the original prize dragons stated that the dragons would not have been released otherwise and asked would we liked that? Never being able to see these dragons at all? yes I would have, greatly. I can't understand why an artist would subject one of their sprites to being a "prize dragon", but If we had a choice back when the prize dragons were released, I would have voted never to have them. I don't like them because of how they mess up trading. People ask for absurd prices for them and it puts too much power to a single group of people.

 

So, yes, I would have preferred if all the raffles only had HMs and nothing else.

[rayden54]

1. No

2. This is WORSE than 1. Unlike 1, this creates an INSURMOUNTABLE gap. At least once people have met your arbitrary requirement, they're treated as equal to everyone else who's jumped through enough hoops.

3. No. Who decides WHICH skill? I'm good at logic puzzles. I suck at art. Why should that mean I have no chance?

4. No. The raffle was already biased toward people who use the forums. Most of the recipes are completely counter-intuitive.

5. Maybe. However, I DO believe the prize dragons should be rare. I also believe there's nothing wrong with using them as cash machines.

6. At this rate, I'm all for that for next year. This year, we've been promised prizes. I spent an hour trying to make bread dough. I expect to at least have a shot at a dragon.

 

Most of the posts in this thread are attacks on Newbies. They either "Don't appreciate" their prize or "They'll just quit."

[DarkEternity]

6. Honestly, I think HMs should be done away with altogether. Unlike the tree decorating contest where it was sort of arty, the idea that people should have be honourably mentioned for being lucky is ludicrous at best.

EDIT: do we want a poll?

Edited December 31, 2012 by DarkEternity

[TheGrox]

6. Honestly, I think HMs should be done away with altogether. Unlike the tree decorating contest where it was sort of arty, the idea that people should have be honourably mentioned for being lucky is ludicrous at best.

EDIT: do we want a poll?

I asked if we need a poll... no response.

 

And, maybe we should name them differently, but I think honourable mentions (or whatever they should be called) are better than prizes themselves. Obviously the name is old, but it's stuck.

[olympe]

Then call them 4th place, or tin or steel or whatnot to go with gold, silver and bronze. This is just semantics, after all.

 

Edited for typefail

Edited December 31, 2012 by olympe

[TheGrox]

Then call them 4th place, or tin or steel or whatnot to go with gold, silver and bronze. This is just semantics, after all.

Indeed. But their name being invalid or old is not a reason to get rid of them... as DarkEternity seems to be suggesting?

[PolarVortex]

I would have been fine with this from the beginning. I would be fine with prize dragons never have existing, either of them. I think someone in the thread for the original prize dragons stated that the dragons would not have been released otherwise and asked would we liked that? Never being able to see these dragons at all? yes I would have, greatly. I can't understand why an artist would subject one of their sprites to being a "prize dragon", but If we had a choice back when the prize dragons were released, I would have voted never to have them. I don't like them because of how they mess up trading. People ask for absurd prices for them and it puts too much power to a single group of people.

 

So, yes, I would have preferred if all the raffles only had HMs and nothing else.

This is pretty much how I feel. I don't like a minuscule number of players having something über-rare, even if it was acquired by fair luck. This is why I favor more prizes, to the point where they are still special, but not immensely rare/valuable. Though I do appreciate what Thuban said that it would be really frustrating to have a shiny new prize that never produced eggs.

 

I also support the idea of multi-clutches for prize dragons. That would also help alleviate some of the trading issues and give more people a chance at low-gens without having to be already-wealthy or friends with a winner.

[TheGrox]

I also support the idea of multi-clutches for prize dragons. That would also help alleviate some of the trading issues and give more people a chance at low-gens without having to be already-wealthy or friends with a winner.

But what about the people who can't catch things and have slow internet? It's soooo unfair. Okay, so I am being sarcastic, but I still think it's unfair, and would greatly devalue tinsels. People (like me anyway) would end up learning when prize owners bred, and stalking the AP at that time. That way certain people, who are good catchers and whatever, would get more 2nd gens than they could now.

[DarkEternity]

But what about the people who can't catch things and have slow internet? It's soooo unfair. Okay, so I am being sarcastic, but I still think it's unfair, and would greatly devalue tinsels. People (like me anyway) would end up learning when prize owners bred, and stalking the AP at that time. That way certain people, who are good catchers and whatever, would get more 2nd gens than they could now.

And make us almost entirely dependent on arranging trades to obtain offspring?

In limiting us to trading, ONLY the good catchers/ breeders have enough to afford them. With the AP, there is a degree of luck.

Edited December 31, 2012 by DarkEternity