Anyone else hate lineages?

[ferdelance]

I admit, I love them. Mostly it's about building/designing them, though, not "making my dragon special". I use a lot of commons when I plan lineages -- the pattern/design is what I like, I don't really care about the rarity of the dragons involved as long as I think they're pretty. *currently planning a Guardian/Waverunner lineage*

 

I like collecting purely for looking at, too, though -- most of my dragons aren't from neat lines, but rather are CB or else picked up off the AP at random because I needed that breed to complete a set. So I guess I can see it both ways. One is like putting together a complex puzzle or designing a large-scale art installation; the other is like buying a painting because you like it, even though the artist isn't illustrious/collectible.

 

 

Edited to include further data:

 

I joined the Cave back in 2009 (February!), way before there was a lineage link; so like other "old-timers" I at first didn't know or care about lineages. I *did* like catching AP dragons who had parents with funny or interesting names, though, since that shows up on the dragon's page. That was about as far as my 'lineage awareness' went.

 

Once I joined the forums (much later than my joining the site) I became aware that there were 'valuable' lineages, i.e. Dorkfaces and Thuweds, but still didn't really know about the various other types that people were building, which are mostly colour-based or breed-based. I don't think I found out about those until the "View Lineage" thing happened; as soon as that went up, I was onto it, because of my old habit of looking at the parent names.

 

I think the thing I dislike most about lineages is the (to me very strange) tendency for people to demand that other people take eggs only from their "starting pair" and build outward. I am much more of the "build backward" approach -- if I ever started a massive multiperson breeding project, it'd be of the "I have this and this and this, and if I combined them it would look really neat!" sort.

 

For example, I received a Gold from White Stripe/Gold parents, so I bred her to my CB Stripe to begin a stairstep of Gold/Stripe. I build from what I have that looks interesting, rather than trying to start at zero and then pass everything to others. (My disinterest in my dragons' abandoned offspring is probably a big part of this; I don't keep track of what happens to eggs I gift/abandon, so if I had just a "starting pair" and then gave their eggs to others to build the lineage, it'd be like having none at all for me!)

 

As for having nothing 'valuable' to trade... PFffft. Last month I bred a 2nd-gen Thunder trio egg from Thunder/Electric, and I could hardly give it away! It's not like I was asking for CB Golds, either (I've noticed a lot of people seem to have really inflated notions of their eggs' value, at least in the Rare Trade thread...); I was extremely reasonable.

 

Value is very clearly a subjective thing, because eggs I often think will bring me lots of interesting offers sometimes flop horribly -- even "nice" 2nd-gen eggs from popular crosses.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 9, 2012 by ferdelance

[Misha]

This lineage took me, what seems like, forever to be successful at and when it did happen I felt it was well worth the effort.

 

http://dragcave.net/lineage/BPVJW

 

I love to create those unique and/or beautiful lineages.

[Draco Knight]

Well, I've been a member here for quite awhile. I have most dragon breeds on my scroll(still missing Neglected, but working on it). If not for lineages, all I would have to do would be anticipate Holidays, collect more of what I already have, and almost kill eggs trying to get a Neglected.

 

The lineage viewer kept me as a member here.

 

When I do trade eggs from a lineage, it's almost me always asking for a blood swap. If not, I'm usually dealing in CBs since I don't see an inherent value in a lineaged egg except to someone who wants to work on that lineage. With an exception to golds, silvers, tinsels, and certain Holidays, I don't think an egg with a lineage(even 2ed gen) is as valuable as a non cave blocker CB.

 

So, no, I don't hate lineages(just the opposite) but I don't see why people think that just because they love and think their lineage is super awesome and cool that the eggs from it are very valuable.

Edited February 9, 2012 by Draco Knight

[Aderik]

I like lineages, but I can understand why some people have a grievance with them.

 

One, by definition, a game is 'structures playing'. Now, the structured part comes from a set of rules. These could include...

 

Collecting all sprites.

Collecting a certain number of a certain sprite.

Collecting pretty/messy lineages.

Collecting large/small lineages.

Collect everything that happens to pass by.

 

So in essence, the lineages in the game have evolved into a type of 'rules' for the game which some (if not most) people play by.

 

Since there really isn't any set goals of the game, each player is allowed to choose how they play DC as long as they don't break the TOS. That's in one part what makes the game so great, yet in another way, gives people free reign to begin competing against other players by a player induced set of rules.

 

Thus some people hate other player's use of lineages to determine value. They are effectively saying that they're dragons are better than yours. "Mine is shorter so I get the rare egg trades while yours isn't so you don't get a chance" to paraphrase. People view this as a game, where everyone has a fair chance, however based on preference, their chances are effectively lowered.

 

This, imo, is what causes grief against lineages.

[Teez]

I know you're just speculating about the problem might be, Aderik, so this isn't really directed at you even though I'm quoting you.

 

Thus some people hate other player's use of lineages to determine value. They are effectively saying that they're dragons are better than yours.

 

Those lineages are better than others... to the people who want them. Since there's no inherent value to any of the dragons, it's pretty silly to get mad at people for finding dragons meeting one set of standards better than another, especially since those standards change from person to person.

 

The few arguments against lineages (as opposed to not caring but letting live and let live) in this thread read to me as people saying "I want what you're offering in trade, so how dare you not like what I have to offer! How dare you expect me to give you something you want that I don't care about!" (Especially the OP.) Not-quite-but-bordering-on entitlement. No one is obligated to give away eggs they find valuable (or that they know others find valuable), or to take something they don't want for that egg, just because someone else wants it.

 

(Not to mention, people can love lineages that aren't worth a thing in trade. I am very proud of this one, but while I like to think someone might take care of a sibling if I gave it away for free, I wouldn't expect to get any offers for a trade (especially not for things I like). It's not impossible to play without trading, either, even though it makes the game more difficult; I refused to trade until Teleport was implemented because I didn't like the risk of the AP method.)

[tjekan]

The few arguments against lineages (as opposed to not caring but letting live and let live) in this thread read to me as people saying "I want what you're offering in trade, so how dare you not like what I have to offer! How dare you expect me to give you something you want that I don't care about!" (Especially the OP.) Not-quite-but-bordering-on entitlement.

QFT.

 

If lineages annoy you then don't worry about them, but you can't make another player trade with you if they don't want your dragon, no matter whether it's inbred, super common, or they just don't like the sprite.

 

You don't HAVE to do anything in this game. I personally do not like neglecteds. They're cool-looking, but the concept creeps me out, so I've never tried making one. This handicaps me quite a bit in the trading subgame, but does that mean neglecteds are bad or other people shouldn't make them because it gives them an advantage over me? No, it just means I play the game differently than other people. It's really no big deal. I'm still able to play just fine. You could just as easily play the game without ever clicking the lineage link of a bred dragon.

[WatersMoon110]

I do dabble in lineages, though I tend to do them solo. I like pretty things, and it is fun to finally breed the egg that is the culmination of my efforts.

 

But I still adopt dragon with long or "messy" lineages, I actually like huge lineages. Especially the long lines that are clean. I only care about inbreeding because I don't breed the inbred dragons. Lineage doesn't matter to me, except how fun it can be to mess around with.

 

I have had people I want to trade with turn down my offer with a PM about how they don't collect that sort of lineage. Does it annoy me? Not really. I might want that dragon they have, but they don't want what I have. I just try to shrug it off. If I can't trade that egg or hatchling, then I have another dragon to play with.

 

I think the main complaint here is that it is hard to get rare dragons without participating in trades. And then the ways to get the most desirable dragons are very hard work. If someone has a slower computer, the chances to catch a rare are slim. The main way most people on the forum acquire rares is through trading. So on top of not being able to catch metalics, trios, stripes, and blacks, the rares are too "expensive" to barter.

 

Suddenly, chances to get all the of the dragons someone wants seem bleak. Even I feel the envy sometimes too. And to someone who never cared about lineage, it seems unfair that suddenly they have to. Or that is how I felt at first.

Edited February 10, 2012 by WatersMoon110

[inlaterdays]

My scroll is a mix of CB, low-gen, lineaged, and messy/inbred dragons. I'm just starting to get more interested in lineage projects (and I don't breed dragons with messy or inbred lines for release, but I will happily house them on my scroll).

 

I think the only thing I don't like about lineages is that some people seem to complain about finding a holiday egg in the AP with a lineage that they don't like. I don't think the attitude "how dare people breed these things" is very nice - if you don't like it, re-abandon it and try for one with a neater line. But some people are still glad to have a holiday egg no matter what its ancestry, so criticizing the breeder doesn't seem fair.

 

(This has not happened to me either as breeder or catcher, I should note, so perhaps it's a non-issue for most people.)

[Umbee]

I used to dislike lineages for the same reason as the OP, but now that I have at least one of most breeds and am working on lineages of my own, I think they're really fun.

 

As for concerns with not being able to trade, it does seem like people with better lineages are able to get all the good stuff, but that's why you slowly work your way up to being able to trade for better and better things. I figure that if I trade and breed wisely, and if I'm patient enough, I may someday be able to trade for nice things like metallics, even though I have very little right now that would be worth one.

[Tawanda001]

I think the main complaint here is that it is hard to get rare dragons without participating in trades. And then the ways to get the most desirable dragons are very hard work. If someone has a slower computer, the chances to catch a rare are slim. The main way most people on the forum acquire rares is through trading. So on top of not being able to catch metalics, trios, stripes, and blacks, the rares are too "expensive" to barter.

 

Suddenly, chances to get all the of the dragons someone wants seem bleak. Even I feel the envy sometimes too. And to someone who never cared about lineage, it seems unfair that suddenly they have to. Or that is how I felt at first.

I agree with you. If someone can't catch then that player IS going to have to do some work to have something decent to offer for a trade. Not many people are going to be willing to trade that silver or trio egg they stalked for hours in the biomes for some messy thing they could pick up for themselves in the AP.

 

I think for the people that can't catch rares they should be glad for lineages, because that is probably the best way to get rares (it certainly works for me)

BUT

There are also a lot of people offering some nice things in trade for multiple CB common hatchies too. If you don't want to be bothered collecting or breeding lineages then collect a handful of commons and hatch them.

 

And I think people shouldn't be discouraged at having to really work at getting those really rare and elusive dragons. They're rare for a reason.

It does take a while. I've been playing for three years and have yet to get a CB gold or a holly of any kind, and I've only recently been able to trade my way into 2nd gen metallics.

 

[Mupen64 Man]

I don't really seek out lineages, but I do find it pretty cool that I can look and see the ancestors of the dragon I just obtained.

[RainDear]

I am not particularly interested in the creation of lineages. I do like to catch "interesting" lineages on the AP, but I'm pretty sure my "interesting" is someone else's "ugly", "messy", or even "UGH, inbred". I have a Gold Tinsel with 10 generations and lots of different dragons in its line, including Hollies. I love it, but as trading fodder? Well, not everyone values its "history" the way I do.

 

But, I do not see other's lineages or game play having any effect on my own. If someone wants something bred from my scroll-great, if not-ah, well. When trading, I do try to offer the best I have, otherwise I just please myself.

[DarkLadyNyara]

Personally, I love lineages- I probably would not still be active on DC if they didn't exist. I love creating pretty patterns, and I love the fact that it's something that takes a degree of effort. It keeps the game fun for me. And the amount of entitlement (on both sides) and the amount of vitriol (again, on both sides) that the issue of lineages and inbreeding seems to attract really boggles the mind. You don't care about lineages? Great- ignore them. You love lineages and won't keep any dragon that doesn't meet your exacting standards? Great- toss whatever you don't like back to the AP for the first group to grab. I do not get the hate.

 

I think the only thing I don't like about lineages is that some people seem to complain about finding a holiday egg in the AP with a lineage that they don't like. I don't think the attitude "how dare people breed these things" is very nice - if you don't like it, re-abandon it and try for one with a neater line. But some people are still glad to have a holiday egg no matter what its ancestry, so criticizing the breeder doesn't seem fair.

 

Yeah, that obnoxious. (I gave myself a headache facepalming at certain posts in the event thread.) I mean, I'm pretty anal about lineages myself, but I also recognize that that's my preference. Whining about "how dare people breed things I don't want" is rather entitled.

 

Those lineages are better than others... to the people who want them. Since there's no inherent value to any of the dragons, it's pretty silly to get mad at people for finding dragons meeting one set of standards better than another, especially since those standards change from person to person.

 

The few arguments against lineages (as opposed to not caring but letting live and let live) in this thread read to me as people saying "I want what you're offering in trade, so how dare you not like what I have to offer! How dare you expect me to give you something you want that I don't care about!" (Especially the OP.) Not-quite-but-bordering-on entitlement. No one is obligated to give away eggs they find valuable (or that they know others find valuable), or to take something they don't want for that egg, just because someone else wants it.

 

QFT. This is perfect, I have nothing to add. (And I love that lineage you posted.)

 

In reality? How often do you look at your dragon's lineages? Be honest here.

 

Pretty often, actually. I also enjoy looking at other peoples dragon's lineages.

[BirdSpirit]

I don' t mind seeing a nice lineage, but I won't go out of my way to make one unless its PB. For example, I'm making a PB Nebula lineage right now with alts and regulars every other generation. My scroll consists of mostly CB and PB dragons unless they're rare.

 

If I happen upon a nice lineage, like the hellfire I have right now, I usually just try and trade it for something CB or just freeze it if the hatch time is short enough.

[LegendaryEpoch]

Its half and half for me. I always look at the lineage if my eggs have one at least once. Sometimes if I'm really into that dragon I might look at the lineage to see where such a cool dragon came from for rp purposes (it's origin story). But having so many nameless code dragons kills it for me for huge lineages. Its times like that where I think lineages are dumb. Doing lineages myself is out of the question. I'm more into Dragon Cave for collecting and for my own pathetic fantasies, not to see that all my dragons and thier subsequent generations are all named accordingly and follow a color scheme.

[DragonOni]

I'm not too keen on lineages. I only will accept a messy lineage if the dragon is rare (because I'm missing a lot of rarer dragons since I quit the site for over a year around late 2009 and most of 2010)

 

I didn't used to be like that (many of my original dragons from 2008 show that when I didn't know anything about it), but I found I LOVE starting lineages.

 

And long lineages make me head spin.

[DragonKing1337]

I plan on making lineages once I've collected all the CB dragons that I like. But I can understand how other people dislike lineages, CB blacks aren't high value because of lineages (that doesn't help with there value diminishing though) but because they drop from the cave at the same rate as a rare/ uncommon from my experiences.

[Anarya-Ameana]

See, before the whole lineage fad I would just collect eggs, etc. etc. but after a while, that got really boring... I played DC religiously for a few months before I began to slow down and eventually stopped after about a year or less... Now that I've gotten into the whole lineages and stuff, I'm finding DC a lot more fun than it was before, simply because of the challenge that building a good lineage gives.

[Shadowdrake]

I've never been much of a lineage person. The reasons I have lineaged dragons are for breeding/trading fodder, they were gifted, they're useful, they're part of my frozen hatchie army, and/or they were one of mine that I didn't abandon.

 

The majority of my adult dragons are CB, and I don't breed most of them anyway. I just make note of which are inbred and make sure not to breed those. Personally, if I can't get a CB of a breed I try to get as close to CB as possible (2nd-gen). Heck, I don't have any non-CB metallics because I don't WANT any, so my only one is my single CB silver that I'm never breeding ever.

 

I'd never go so far as to say I hate lineages, however. I think that when others spend time religiously assorting their dragons to breed these patterned lineages, I go hunting for CB rares or raise/freeze more unwanted babies to try evening ratios for more CB rares XP

(I see codes as unique names in the language of DC dragons, rather than something to be disliked.)

[kleptomaniac]

I care about lineages a lot, because they're fun to breed and take the monotony out of DC. Collecting the same thing over and over is kind of boring.

Plus, a lot of them are just pretty to look at... I love colours and patterns, so it's really my thing.

I have kind of the opposite problem in that I can't comprehend why people insist on breeding long messy-lineaged common eggs onto the AP... hah.

[RWyvern]

Until about a month back I was just focused on every single dragon. Then I just suddenly became interested in lineaged - made it my scroll goal to have every adult and S2 hatchling sprite, all the adults nicely lineaged and most of the hatchlings CB. I just like to have something pleasant to look at when it comes to lineages; it also makes me feel like I have something more special ^^

[brairtrainer]

I like nice lineaged dragons. That said I think we need to broaden our thoughts of neat. This is as far as I've gotten on a lineage I'm working on. I'm taking 2nd gen silver fails and using them instead of cbs in this spiral linage (you can see the shape if you look). Most people will go yuck....but I honestly can see this as being pretty. Will it ever be trade fodder? No, unless someone takes a shine to it and trys it with another breed,and I'm okay with that.

 

Now I don't have a cb silver so I rely on trades/gifts for the lineage though the first two I own (magi silver, mint silver) were AP finds.

[Varekis]

Weird, I swear I posted in here before but apparently not. o.O

 

I like lineages. They take out the monotony that underlies the main "game" behind DC: collecting sprites. It's nice having objectives to fulfill, especially when you have enough CBs lying around to make them useful. I've always been fond of colours and patterns so it's fun seeing what combinations work. ^^

 

Of course, I didn't always care about lineages. I think that for the most part lineage building is a learned/developed interest (thinking especially about the older players when lineages didn't exist and/or weren't a huge factor). When you start off, all you want to do is get one of each sprite. Once you start getting most of the sprites, you look for other things to do.

[LegolianM]

I'm pretty neutral on lineages. I think they look nice and I always get a little happy when I catch something in the AP with a nice lineage, but I don't personally place any worth on them. In fact, having nicely lineaged dragons on my scroll can be quite irritating at times, because I don't create them myself so I don't have anything to breed with those dragons that will continue the lineage. I wind up either never breeding them at all or eventually making really messy babies with them, which is a shame because I feel like they deserve better.

 

I don't mind them being popular though - more messy rare eggs for me.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

Personally, I love lineages- I probably would not still be active on DC if they didn't exist. I love creating pretty patterns, and I love the fact that it's something that takes a degree of effort. It keeps the game fun for me.

This is how I feel. If all I was interested in was collecting sprites regardless of lineage, then I'd only have a few frozen hatchies left to go to be 'done' collecting. Preferring pretty lineages keeps things interesting--getting any 'ol Black or Silver is fairly easy, getting the nice lined ones and CBs is not. Plus it's really fun to try out new breed combinations, or see what beautiful lines other people have come up with! ^^