Anyone else hate lineages?

[Alexiel Dragoness]

It's this statement that I don't get. If you really don't care about lineages, then wouldn't ANY tinsel serve your purposes equally well? It's ridiculously easy to pick up tinsels if you don't care what kind of a lineage it has. Only the short-lineaged ones or those with rare mates are difficult to come by. And once you have one tinsel, they breed like rabbits, so you could create your own army in no time if you didn't care that they were all related.

 

I can certainly understand not caring about lineages and even thinking those of us who do care about lineages are a little silly. :-) But what I don't understand is feeling PRESSURED to take part in lineages when you don't want to. If anything, the fact that so many people are picky about lineages should make it easier for you, because it means you can get messy-lineaged eggs on the cheap!

Well,when tinsels start to appear at the trading threads,they weren't easy to get.

now they are like commons for most of us,but when I tried to get one it was extremely difficult to get even one with high gen.So having one dragon with a good lineage or even a rare CB was the only way of trading for one.

of course if I was trying to get my first tinsel NOW,I would get it quite easily.

[Happy Dragon]

If anything, it would be more accurate to say that the lineage craze has driven the trading craze.

 

This.

 

Looking over the last few pages, some people seem to be missing the OP's point, or the points others are bringing up.

 

Yeah, we can get the cheaper, messier, rares. And we will take them, honestly we will.

 

Now if we could just find people who actually breed them. You know why we can't? People with the messier metals have either stopped breeding them in favor of their trade stock, or their metals/rares just don't like to breed.

 

Again, we can get some from gifting threads. Most of us make use of those, and get what we can. After that, our dragons have to breed the rest of our army, or we have to hunt down people willing to trade/breed/gift. And it's that part where they want to trade where things get interesting.

 

But back to the trading threads: Yeah, you have something nice, you ask for something nice. That makes sense. What drives me crazy are people who ask for MULTIPLE CB metals for CB {insert dragon UFT here}, outside of NDs or Holly IOUs. Or they ask for that or PB (usually blacks) for whatever bred not-so-rare/uncommon/common they happen to have up for trade.

 

And it all goes back to 'how much do you value something?' You get a new forum user who doesn't understand what a reasonable price is for something. They look around the trading threads, and they see what others ask. They do their thing, put up something for trade, and ask what they see others asking for. It's way more than most Vets/more experienced players will pay for it, so they ignore the post. The problem is, while that new forum user may eventually learn what a reasonable asking price for his things are, in the meantime, he/she is helping to confuse other new forum users. And thus, we get pages and pages of people trading things, and they all want the same things, for the most part.

 

We don't have it, or don't want to pay it, so we move on.

 

But when we want to trade our stuff? Even when asking for lower quality eggs/hatchies, we get 'no interest'. I've had it happen to me. I catch CB SunStones, and try to trade them off for MoonStones, or the other way around. The day before? I see plenty of posts where people want them, or are collecting them. It comes time for me to try trading them? Nothing. All those people seem to have gotten what they wanted already, and now I have to make a post, which I do, and sit there while no one gives it a second look over.

 

Also, it's been said before that offering BSA eggs/hatchies is not fool-proof. I have Reds I can breed. I have an army of Magis I can breed. I look through the trades, and most of the stuff I'm interested in, they don't want BSA Hatchies---

 

Oh wait, I'm sorry, they do, but they MUST be CB, or no higher than X gen. It's a freaking Pink (they want), but it must be of the requested breeding, or they won't even look at it. Fine, they're doing their own breeding project. Moving on, to try and find another workable trade. Which I will not find, because people don't like to be undersold. Awesome. Thanks again, trade threads.

 

Really, at this point, I just don't have the will to bother with trade threads. They've got too many people who don't know the value of things, or they do know and don't care, or their priorities are so SO different from mine, we could never work anything out. I'll stick with the gifting threads, and the dragon-lotto chat, and maybe the main chat for finding nice people who want to spread the love.

 

Honestly. I offered a CB VAMP in trades, and was only asking for CB eggs/Hatchies, any rarity, but I would consider ALL offers. You wanna know what offers I got? 1 CB purple hatchie, and 1 CB Ember hatchie. -_______________- If I didn't have to open up my scroll for a breeding IOU, I would have tried to hold out for a Red, or a Pink. Honestly, I would have taken messy pinks and reds . . .

 

Also, someone mentioned that the OP had 2 years to build a pretty lineage of their own, even if it was just with commons they could grab from the cave. That's true, OP could have done that, with dragons OP likes, to make something OP thinks is beautiful. Then OP would have just needed to find someone else out there who actually likes OP's lineage, and thinks it's worth trading a Silver for. *snorts* Heck, I have Geodes with what I think are pretty, even, lines, and I know most people wouldn't think to trade rares for them. Maybe other Uncommons, or some unbreedables, but that's probably the best I could get.

[tjekan]

But it's ALWAYS been hard to get a metallic. Way back in the day, before lineage pages even existed, it was STILL hard to get metallics. You couldn't just trade a few pink hatchlings for a silver egg then either.

 

I think an in-cave marketplace might actually be the right answer to relieve some of these trading frustrations. The fact that nobody ever places an offer on most trades has a lot to do with the comparatively limited number of people who post on the forums and the fact that most of them already have most of what they want. If there are only, say, two people out there building moonstone armies at the moment, then unless you happen to chance across one of them, your moonstone offer may sit there for a long time. If all DC users had access to your trade, it might see a lot more action.

[PacketMonkey]

In my opinion, trading is not well encouraged here at D.C.

You would have to go to a chat channel to get a fast trade..even then it can take a while.

I mean, it's just a hassle to do things, and with all the tinsels going about, lineages became even more important. I want good lineages so i can fare a chance in the trading business.

 

I think the in cave market would be a good idea^

Edited December 2, 2011 by PacketMonkey

[Happy Dragon]

I fully understand that CB Metallics, and NDs of any lineage, are ALWAYS going to be hard to get, and people will ask lots for them. That's fine. It would be more strange if they didn't ask top price for them. It just gets wearying when you look for cheaper golds/silvers and come up empty.

 

Oh, yes, I'd support an in-game trade/marketplace too. :3 Even if there's no way to standardize 'prices', I'm all for it. No idea if TJ could do the coding with pictures only. Maybe make a marketplace that all 2-way Tele links are automatically added to, so then even people who don't use the forums can browse what's there.

 

If people could also list what they want, using pictures . . . maybe a little symbol for CB vs. Lineage. . . otherwise we'd have to type up messages. . .

 

Or people would just offer like normal, and we could reject or accept like we already can.

[thiefofhearts]

i dont mind them. everyone has their preferences and that's it. some people dont like lineages and some people do. it's more or less just like if someone likes one breed of dragon while someone else dislikes it. it boils down to personal taste.

 

the only thing i don't like are tombstone lineages. that's my personal pet peeve. it's one thing if it's a giant mess of a lineage and there's a tombstone - it doesn't matter, but saying it's a 3rd gen dragon when it's a tombstone lineage is stretching it.

 

i actually like messy lineages because you get to see the funny dragons and names that pop up like "Bill and Ted's excellent dragon" lol but like most other people have said, they are hard to trade.

 

and that's fine. you can't force people to like a certain thing, especially for your own benefit. i get your frustration at a lot of the things you pointed out but I think that is what makes socializing and branching out to different groups important if there's a certain thing you want to achieve in the cave.

 

Dragon Cave doesn't have to be a single player game and it will almost assuredly be that much harder if that's how you go about your game plan.

[Lastalda]

I fully understand that CB Metallics, and NDs of any lineage, are ALWAYS going to be hard to get, and people will ask lots for them. That's fine. It would be more strange if they didn't ask top price for them. It just gets wearying when you look for cheaper golds/silvers and come up empty.

But even "cheap, messy" metallics are hard to get, even for those who have cool lineages and CBs. Metallics are rare, their breeding successes have never (apart from a short glitch phase) been high, so people seldom get more than an egg a month, usually far fewer than that. (I'm breeding all my metallics weekly, yes, the messy ones as well. Haven't had a metallic egg in over a year.) So of course it's hard to trade for one!

That doesn't have anything to do with lineages at all!

In fact, concerning metallics it's really pretty much the same situation like it was in the time I joined, back in autumn 2008 - and there wasn't even the first lineage-viewer on jadedestiny yet, back then!

 

And as for NDs (answering a different person whose post I can't find again right now), having once created one, I can tell you why you can't trade for one except with CB metallics or hollies etc. - because it takes a fricking lot of time and work and luck (and often coordination with several people!) to make one, even if you know how! So of course people are going to ask for stuff that compensates them for their time and effort. NDs are not something you catch by luck, like you might catch a CB rare, they are something you work on. Trust me, if you had gone through it, you wouldn't give one away for a random price, either.

 

But yes, an Incave Market could be nice (so long as it's opt-in, like for every trade you create you get a little ticky box saying "Offer this trade publicly on the dragon market"), but that's a discussion for "Suggestions", not for this thread.

 

As for BSA hatchies - I have seen people who want CB or PB BSA eggs, but there are also a lot of people happy to take BSA hatchies of any lineage at all.

Like, right now? I'm trying to trade clear-lined, not terribly-high-gen tinsels for a couple of purple hatchies. Any lineage at all, IOU fine. But no offers at all. So yes, BSA hatchies do have their value, regardless of lineage. You just have to find the people who offer what you want for what you can give. Which is, you know, market.

[Happy Dragon]

@Lastalda: Bah, it happened to me again. I tend to make less sense in writing than I think I do. @_@

 

When I said 'come up empty', I meant more along the lines of, 'Not seeing anyone trading them, let alone having a price for them.' And it's for the reason you said, metals have never really bred well. (I swore I said something like that earlier. @_@)

 

Ah, right, sorry, let me connect the CB metallics thing with the whole lineage topic.

 

Everyone wants them, they are hard to get, so you ask top price for them. Fine. Some just want them, some just want them for breeding babies to trade off, and some want them for making lineages (which they may trade off babies of to either help, gift, or get goodies).

 

And so, you get people offering things--which they know other players want, or something with a lineage someone might like--and they ONLY want those CB metals, or other top price things. That's the connect, CB metals make for 'a spectacular lineage' on top of everything else desirable about them (not in all lineages, but in enough of them), which helps to contribute to people asking for them, even if they do not understand what they have is not worth a CB Metal. (The connect here is that new forum users/players see lineage topics, and think all lines auto equal worth way more than normal eggs of that type. However, it applies only to new players who have not learned that some lines are famous, which is why they get a better asking price, or other little quirks of lineage trading/making.)

 

Like, I'll see things that I'd like to offer on, or at least talk to the person to work out a deal, but all they want is CB Golds. And it might be, say, a chicken, or a trio egg, or a Geode, or a CB Vamp (I did see that in trade chat). So, they feel it's worth X, and only X, I might think it's worth X - Y, but they don't even want to talk about it or consider other offers. They will eventually learn the value of their eggs/hatchlings, but in the meantime I'm just sitting here going, '=.= If they were a sane person I could try to work out a deal with them, and finally have something for this other half of a project I'm working on. Oh well, I could have made it worth their while.'

 

But the above may be a different problem that only looks like it has something to do with lines, and we might all have more or less come to an agreement on a few points in regards to lineage:

 

They are fun to make, they are wonderful to work on, having help is always awesome, but some of them are murder on one's patience and sanity.

 

If I still sound like a spouting gibberish, I'm sorry. My biggest rage about lineage still comes for people booting/killing gifts because they are 'ugly'.

[SnowSherry]

I know a lot of people spend a lot of time making these really nice lineages, and I seriously just do not freaking understand it.

 

I mean, let's say you have a black egg. It's damn near impossible to find black eggs any more, I personally am happy to have one no matter where it came from. But whether it's caveborn or has such and such lineage directly affects how tradeable it is. Which puts people like me, who don't want any armies on their scroll, who don't want to spend months making the perfect lineage, at a distinct disadvantage.

 

In reality? How often do you look at your dragon's lineages? Be honest here.

 

I know a lot of people like knowing they have a special dragon because of its lineage, the same way people feel special because they have a pedigreed dog. But ugh. It just annoys the ever living CRAP out of me. I mean, all the dragons that I collected before this lineage thing became a fad, are now worth nothing, and their eggs are completely worthless to me for trading.

 

I know complaining won't change anything, but it makes me feel better.

I'll breed you any eggs you like, when lineages aren't so important breeding becomes more fun

[Rika-chan]

Well... I think, lineages have pluses. They can be entertainment when you was tired of simple collecting, sometimes they're really cute and they are advantage in trades. But last is a disadvantage too. For example. My scroll is almost 3 years old. In old days I tried to get all with myself: I catched and bred silver (very messy and inbred, but I REALLY DON'T CARE, yes), catched all trios with myself and almost all holidays too. I have not very good internet, so I didn't trade. And I didn't want. But since that I haven't any gold, most of dinos... And I went to the forum for trading. But this lineages are everywhere. And it's hard to get even messy gold, because, yeah, I haven't 3-gen-Thuwed-clean-lineaged-Tinsel-with-Holy-father-even-if-it-doesn't-exist (in example, of course).

So. For me, gold is gold, silver is silver, EVEN tinsel is tinsel, and lineage is only cute complement, NOT general insanity. Yes, I love original lines for commons (but not every), but rares are rares anyway. And it's silly to call messy gold cheap. And sometimes I think that this insanity with nice lineaged tinsels is funny too. Be happy that owners of CBs simply bred them

[Ashes The Second]

I find lineages neat because it's like saying 'Yeah! I have this and I can breed more of it.' It makes it fee lvaluable, in my eyes. Take this dragon, for example:

 

http://dragcave.net/lineage/cSZT

 

Is that lineage not amazing? And I only looked at it recently! It's so beautiful, and I have an 'old' dragon in one of my lineages. To me, that makes the offspring very valuable and pretty. But it may just be me who's peeved about the way I have to look at a lineage and then abandon a rare because the lineage irks me so badly. I don't like doing that, which is why i'll freeze the rare, if only to add it to my collection and eventually get my 500 dragons badge. Because I don't really play this game for rares. Maybe when I get my 500, I'll go finish my other lineage breeding projects. (Rather unlikely, as I'll probably quit by then. q.q.)

 

[perzephone]

But when we want to trade our stuff? Even when asking for lower quality eggs/hatchies, we get 'no interest'. I've had it happen to me. I catch CB SunStones, and try to trade them off for MoonStones, or the other way around. The day before? I see plenty of posts where people want them, or are collecting them. It comes time for me to try trading them? Nothing. All those people seem to have gotten what they wanted already, and now I have to make a post, which I do, and sit there while no one gives it a second look over.

This happens to me all the time.

 

For the first time in almost a year, I get a Silver egg off of one of my Silver males. He's got a messy lineage, but it's not inbred. The one tombstone's been on there since shortly after I got that Winter dragon.

 

You would think, considering the overall rarity of metallics right now that someone would have thrown something up really nice for him in trade. I wasn't asking for the world, either. Either a blood-swap or a Trio, something nice - I'm not all that ambitious. But instead I kept being offered commons, by experienced players w/plenty of pretty dragons. Why? Because 'meh lineage'. But I see plenty of people asking the world for Silvers & Golds with 'meh' lineages & getting what they ask for - just not the day I happen to get lucky

[blackdragon71]

I don't hate lineages, per se, but I absolutely loathe the snotty superiority some users decide to feel over them, like the fact that they only keep caveborns and purebreds and kill all inbreds they find automatically makes them a better player--and person--than I am. It's disgusting.

Thanks for summing that up, Derranged! Now get out of my head.

 

Because I look at creating lineages as an artform, I will say I don't have that many inbreds or 'messy' lineages on my own scroll, but that doesn't give me or anyone else the right to feel that how we play is any more special than how those who could care less do. Some of my frozen treasures (and a couple adults, too), I would not have if someone hadn't tossed them away, and they are as messy and inbred as the day is long. I may or not replace them some day with something 'cleaner,' but kill them, never. Release them, maybe. Breed them, probably not. But it won't make me any less grateful to the person who made them and didn't need them, because I did at the time and the lineage didn't matter on that particular dragon- I wanted the sprite or the breed and didn't possess it, and that was the way to obtain it at the time. Now, I might have to do some creative breeding to get that replacement, or actually stalk the cave and be quick, quick, quick. (Anyone else miss that gold in the desert, the other night?)

 

I've seen some lineages out there that make me scratch my head even more than 'mutt' dragons do, to be honest. Someone posted a red dorsal x bright pink combo that to them was gorgeous, but to me, well...ahem. I won't begrudge that person's choice, and I hope they won't take my lack of awe as such, either. It all comes back to beauty and value in the eye of the beholder and what one takes from the game and puts into it, too. I don't care for the bright pink sprite anyway, but it has great value in lineages, so that that person has that sort of dragon will be a plus to them for as long as that sort of thing is popular.

 

Someone else mentioned that DC doesn't encourage trading. Actually, there are probably too many trading threads now, and that coupled with the teleport function has had a great impact on how trading moves, more so than the lineage issue (no pun intended). Before teleport, trade was a tricky thing, and it had to be well-timed and planned out, and there was no 'accept/decline' feature. With teleport in place, many more people can post trades, because they can be picked up, accepted, declined, and whatever else needs be done with them at a more leisurely pace. There are also far more people playing the game now than there were even a couple years ago, and many more dragons being released than then. So with increased trading, comes increased competition, which is just how economy is driven. And along with that, does come a rather snobbish attitude in some, because some people take their competitive spirit entirely too seriously.

 

 

[Wurdesh]

I'm new to the forums (but not the game) so forgive me if I'm mistaken, but after reading a lot of the discussion here, I went and looked at the trading threads. I saw a thread for trading in general, a thread for trading rares, a thread for trading cave-borns, a thread for trading metallics, a bunch of different gifting threads, a thread for trading hatchlings which came up with the wrong gender, and a thread for trading common dragons.

 

Maybe (and I could be wrong here - like I said, new) at least some of the difficulties mentioned could be helped if there was a thread for trading dragons with no regard as to lineage? The 'Messy Lineage Trading Thread' or something? Unless that already exists, and I missed it.

 

Of course there might not be enough interest for that kind of thing. But it might be a good way for people who don't really care about lines, or haven't been playing long enough to build up enough breeding stock to make their own, to get the dragons they want for the sake of their breed/sprite without relying on gifting too heavily.

[coltzen]

Before the 'view linage' feature I didn't care about linages, but now I do. It makes collecting dragons (if you care) more of a challenge and I think it's a nice part of the game.

 

I like any linage that takes a lot of work, even if it doesn't look that nice to me because I appreciate the effort it took to make it.

Edited December 9, 2011 by coltzen

[HeatherMarie]

I'm new to the forums (but not the game) so forgive me if I'm mistaken, but after reading a lot of the discussion here, I went and looked at the trading threads. I saw a thread for trading in general, a thread for trading rares, a thread for trading cave-borns, a thread for trading metallics, a bunch of different gifting threads, a thread for trading hatchlings which came up with the wrong gender, and a thread for trading common dragons.

 

Maybe (and I could be wrong here - like I said, new) at least some of the difficulties mentioned could be helped if there was a thread for trading dragons with no regard as to lineage? The 'Messy Lineage Trading Thread' or something? Unless that already exists, and I missed it.

 

Of course there might not be enough interest for that kind of thing. But it might be a good way for people who don't really care about lines, or haven't been playing long enough to build up enough breeding stock to make their own, to get the dragons they want for the sake of their breed/sprite without relying on gifting too heavily.

Awhile back I asked a mod about that, because I got tired of so many trading threads with almost all the posts wanting lineage-stuff. The response was basically that we have enough trading threads and you can just post in the other threads anyways. *shrugs*

[Fuzzbucket]

I'll breed you any eggs you like, when lineages aren't so important breeding becomes more fun

What she said.

 

Why I never OFFER messy inbreds is because then they sit on my scroll and take slots I would rather use for the lineages I AM actually working on. I play both ways !

[me002]

To me lineaged dragons are a shame: i wish i had joined before: i would have had a chance to catch CB tinsels/golds/silvers or holidays (as well as frills n alt pinks). CB dragons or dragons descending from your dragons are only yours, i may sound cruel but: lineaged dragons with parents not on my scroll are just so annoying...

Edited December 29, 2011 by jetcomb

[Ha-Ki]

Lineaged dragons with parents not on one's own scroll can be annoying, that's true. One of my geodes has ancestors on someone else's scroll who lost their names, probably 'coz the owner didn't log in for a while

And I also have a dragon I named after his father, but the father lost his name, so my dragon's name was nonsense then.

 

But on the other hand, when you're doing lineage projects and don't have to catch all the cb's yourself, bloodswap with other users can be very helpful. And in the case of lineages containing christmas or valentine dragons, trading for offspring from other scrolls is the only way to get to higher generations.

 

And: I love to see people building lineages with my dragons' offspring

 

 

@ jetcomb: Don't worry about the cb tinsels, they were never in the cave and given out as prizes for last year's Christmas event.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Ha-Ki

[DragonNighthowler]

To me lineaged dragons are a shame: i wish i had joined before: i would have had a chance to catch CB tinsels/golds/silvers or holidays (as well as frills n alt pinks). CB dragons or dragons descending from your dragons are only yours, i may sound cruel but: lineaged dragons with parents not on my scroll are just so annoying...

CB tinsels never dropped. They are last Christmas prize dragons.

 

CB silvers and golds have always been rare. I've been here for years and have just started seeing those eggs dropping on the cave.

They're rare for a reason.

 

As for having the parents in other's scroll, *shrugs*, not much of a problem if the line is nice, but that is a personal preference.

[me002]

I know that they were raffled, i could've had a chance of being awarded one if i was there

[Stromboli]

No, they were awarded for the winning trees of the decorating contest. The Raffle is a new thing this year.

But there might be a chance to get them this year. If there is a new prize dragon, runners up will still get to choose whatever breed they like, and might be able to pick Tinsels.

[sarahfish89]

Lineages to me are not that important but I've got to the stage where I have every breed (except Holly/zombie/neglected) and all I have to do now is get a male/female (CB if possible) of every dragon. What to do after that? Lineages will help fill that for me, I do not care much about getting a CB gold/silver even though I might like one. My long-gens are enough for me.

I do like looking at pretty lineages though, can't say that I'm against lineages even though they are a pain.

[Zerokins]

Lineages incite the response from me as does school projects (odd comparison I know.... but I've been programmed to compare everything to school. I just can't help it !)

 

I want them to be pretty, but at the same time, I could care less whether a silver has 5000000000 ancestors or is a 2nd gen PB. I don't even mind if it's inbred. (But of course, that only applies to silvers for me. :9 )

 

However, the whole trading 2nd gen for 2nd gen thing -- I admit it. I'm guilty. ):

Usually, when I breed my metallics, I only breed my CB ones or my 2nd gen ones even though I have a few that are not long-lined but are considered to have "old-styled" lineages. Why? Only the 2nd and 3rd gens really incite any kind of attention -- as others have stated on this thread. It's almost impossible to get any kind of blood swap when your metallic isn't all pretty and concise. Heck, sometimes, people don't even like certain 2nd gens depending on their mates !

 

But on the common/non-metallic side of lineages -- I really like picking up bred dragons from the AP.... some of them are craaazyy ! Like the 10th gen even dragons. That must have taken A LOT of dedication. I suppose lineages add a new twist to the game and a direction to look forward to. I'd like to try some myself someday but I'm afraid I don't have the patience for them. <:

 

Sorry I rambled. n__n;;

[Stromboli]

Y'know, I love even gens, but the more I try to do with 'em the harder they are to manage... once you start passing about 5th or 6th gen, it's hard to find mates.

Stairsteps are wonderful. Easy to keep going, and still nice and tidy... Definitely my favorite to do, though even-gens are great to find. :3