We want Forum Feedback!

[Fuzzbucket]

1 hour ago, purpledragonclaw said:

Since we're discussing the pros and cons of recommended posts, what do members think about using those in News threads for things like artist credits for events/new releases? I meant to put one up in the Holiday thread, but forgot since it was such a busy time.

 

THAT would be good.

 

1 hour ago, LibbyLishly said:

I am in the minority in that the mod warning at the top of a controversial thread doesn't bother me at all, even when I'm on mobile. Also, I like the idea of having the artist credits pinned to the top of news threads, and maybe keeping it updated with that thread's frequently asked questions.

 

It's not that it bothers me as such - but it doesn't add to discussion one iota, and

 

38 minutes ago, Marie19R said:

 

This is what I *thought* 'recommended posts' was supposed to be used for, honestly. From the conversation in the thread about likes/dislikes, it seemed that recommended posts would be used to highlight important information regarding a new feature or release. It seems like something that could be very useful in a News thread that gathers 10+ pages overnight, to have one 'pinned' post with credits and different information, maybe like what biomes the new releases are in or how to use a new feature. 

 

 

Exactly.

[purpledragonclaw]

Since it's getting positive feedback I've gone ahead and added it to the Holiday thread. Sorry I couldn't get to it during the event, but better late than never. I'll make sure to do it in the future too. 

[Nine]

I would like a way to dismiss recommended posts as well if the feature is here to stay. Most of the moderator warnings feel like finger wagging at a select few repeat offenders, and generally make it feel like other people in the discussion are being babysat and scrutinized as well. Imo warn the repeat offenders, make one post reminding to keep on topic or whatever, and if certain people keep breaking rules then warn them again.

 

This is also in response to a few topics in the past that got permanently locked because of repeated offenses from certain users. I forget what topic(s) it was, but a mod stepped in and made some posts in big, bold letters telling everyone off for off-topic or insulting or whatever, locked the topic on several occasions for extended lengths of time, and then finally permanently locked it citing repeated offenses by certain users. Shutting down discussion and punishing those who are not breaking rules is not the way to go: just warn those who keep breaking the rules and let the topic go on without them. I never commented on this back when those topics were fresh and in recent memory, but I felt like mentioning it in case history wants to repeat itself.

 

Back to recommended posts, not sure I want to see artist credits at the top of every page either to be honest. I preferred it when they were edited in to the first or second post; there for people who are interested, easily ignored by those who aren't.

[HeatherMarie]

11 minutes ago, Nine said:

I would like a way to dismiss recommended posts as well if the feature is here to stay. Most of the moderator warnings feel like finger wagging at a select few repeat offenders, and generally make it feel like other people in the discussion are being babysat and scrutinized as well. Imo warn the repeat offenders, make one post reminding to keep on topic or whatever, and if certain people keep breaking rules then warn them again.

 

This is also in response to a few topics in the past that got permanently locked because of repeated offenses from certain users. I forget what topic(s) it was, but a mod stepped in and made some posts in big, bold letters telling everyone off for off-topic or insulting or whatever, locked the topic on several occasions for extended lengths of time, and then finally permanently locked it citing repeated offenses by certain users. Shutting down discussion and punishing those who are not breaking rules is not the way to go: just warn those who keep breaking the rules and let the topic go on without them. I never commented on this back when those topics were fresh and in recent memory, but I felt like mentioning it in case history wants to repeat itself.

 

Back to recommended posts, not sure I want to see artist credits at the top of every page either to be honest. I preferred it when they were edited in to the first or second post; there for people who are interested, easily ignored by those who aren't.

 

That second-paragraph issue has been an issue around here for a loooooong time, and I totally agree, but I doubt anything will ever be done about it. Heated topics routinely get locked for good because a couple specific people keep being rude and offensive, despite the majority of the conversation being completely within the rules. That's happened on this forum for as long as I can remember, and while it seems like it would be *much* more fair (and more logical!) to simply punish the users who are actually breaking the rules and allow everyone else to continue the conversation, I doubt things will ever change there. 

[Fuzzbucket]

Why can't the repeat offenders be put on post moderation ?

[olympe]

Because that would be too easy a solution, punish only those who actually broke the rule, still let the discussion go on for everybody else (with the chance of other people breaking the very same rules) and mean more work (moderating posts) for the mods?

[Fuzzbucket]

I know a couple of people who have been on post moderation. It is such a pain waiting for approval that they didn't bother. Which had the desired effect And at least the mods can check the offenders' posts and only comb the thread if there are more complaints.

[purpledragonclaw]

10 hours ago, Nine said:

I would like a way to dismiss recommended posts as well if the feature is here to stay. Most of the moderator warnings feel like finger wagging at a select few repeat offenders, and generally make it feel like other people in the discussion are being babysat and scrutinized as well. Imo warn the repeat offenders, make one post reminding to keep on topic or whatever, and if certain people keep breaking rules then warn them again.

 

I do general warnings instead of calling out specific member behaviors in a thread because I don't want to cause embarrassment. This is especially true when there's more than one member being hostile. 

 

10 hours ago, Nine said:

This is also in response to a few topics in the past that got permanently locked because of repeated offenses from certain users. I forget what topic(s) it was, but a mod stepped in and made some posts in big, bold letters telling everyone off for off-topic or insulting or whatever, locked the topic on several occasions for extended lengths of time, and then finally permanently locked it citing repeated offenses by certain users. Shutting down discussion and punishing those who are not breaking rules is not the way to go: just warn those who keep breaking the rules and let the topic go on without them. I never commented on this back when those topics were fresh and in recent memory, but I felt like mentioning it in case history wants to repeat itself.

 

I try not to lock threads for this. I try to read back while the thread remains open (specifically challenging for News threads, but manageable) so members can still post. Especially if issues arose in the thread in my absence, I don't want to shut down discussion while I catch up on the issues.

 

8 hours ago, fuzzbucket said:

Why can't the repeat offenders be put on post moderation ?

 

I do this, I believe it's the best way to get discussions back on track when rule-breaking still occurs after a verbal thread warning, plus it's not fair to punish everyone else who's abiding by the rules, as Nine mentioned. 

[LadyLyzar]

I'm guessing that's largely directed at me.

 

If I have a flood of reports coming in from one topic, I close it temporarily so that I can read through it and get a handle on what's going on before it continues to spiral out of control.  In addition to giving me time to review, it also gives heated tempers time to cool off.  After review, I post a general statement of what went down, request that it not happen again, and re-open the topic.  (I use big letters to make it visible because there is currently no way to highlight a mod post.) If it keeps happening, then more consequences have to happen.  It stinks, but it is what it is.

 

The topics in question were going around in circles - the same arguments were presented repeatedly and no real progress was made.  All it was leading to was drama and fighting.  Despite repeated warnings to knock it off, it kept happening.  I don't want to shut down discussion ever - it was discussed beforehand - however in that case it was the best option and it wasn't an easy decision to make.  However, mods will never discuss who was warned for what or when with a third party - that is between staff and the user(s) in question.  As such, please don't assume that no consequences were taken just because you don't know about them.

 

I love the recommended post feature because it makes a thread warning visible if someone hasn't seen it because it was on a different page.  If things have calmed down, it's easy to remove.  A thread warning is one of many uses this feature can have.  It can also be used to show relevant information to a newcomer in a busy topic, such as breed information from the spriters on a new release.  It's easy to scroll on by since it's at the top of the page. 

 

That being said, I don't know if the new forum has a feature to hide recommended posts.  The feature is new to us all so I imagine there will be an adjustment period as we all get used to it.

[purpledragonclaw]

We could also try keeping a verbal warning up as a recommended post for a timeframe, say 24 hours, and then taking it down. We have options.

[LadyLyzar]

To be fair I did forget to remove it on the topic in question.  *guilty face*  We closed on a house yesterday so I was dealing with all the shenanigans that brings.

 

The thread warning still exists but it is no longer a recommended post.  However, I do feel it did its job - the thread has stayed on topic and it is civil

 

As always, I am open to PMs if you have questions for me or think I may have forgotten something.  I'm only human.

[Fuzzbucket]

I WOULD like to see recommended posts that led to the really salient bits of discussion rather than just warnings, though.

[Natayah]

Hey, since we have a lot more players doing interesting things and projects themselves, and the admins, staff, mods, reviewers, spriters, etc all doing interesting things, and as some dragons are now released with "secrets to uncode" and other various new features... (I think you get the idea, I can stop going on and on), I sometimes think that, and not in this thread as it is specific feedback - Can we have a Thread for Recommended or Suggested or Ideas for Forum Threads.

 

Now hold on there for a minute with me. I know normally if you want to start a thread you just go start it, and/or you ask a MOD for approval, and you get the ok and go start it.

*HOWEVER* I do not have the time or desire to create a new Forum Thread called "Ideas for Future Forum Threads if Someone Else Wants to Start Them Cuz I had  Great Idea But I just Don't have the Time or Experience or Whatever". I want to throw out there - is this even something we would allow on this forum?

 

I know many people have a lot of good ideas, and I know lots of people have time they would like to spend "contributing to the community" or "running their own special thread or project or such," but they are not always the same people. *OR* if they are the same people, they are not really sure where to start and maybe would like to - I don't know, get advice, or test the waters if there would be interest in it, or ask for advice, or whatevernot.

 

(That is a great word I think, whatevernot).

 

I know I do this Player Activity Support and Ideas and stuff, so I am *NOT* talking about that. But for example - What if someone wanted to open a Forum in General Discussion on the Joys of Bass Fishing? I mean, they can just go do it, but maybe they would rather get some feedback first to find out even if they are people who are interested in it. Cuz I know from experience setting up the title, the first few posts, formating - ZOMG I have no idea how awesome people do it so well. That is a lot of work, and it can make people not necessarily want to go thru all that - although that is probably a poor choice as I don't know if a discussion on Bass Fishing would grow to ever need that kinda cool shiny stuff, but IDK.

 

And sometimes people want to discuss politics or various niche aspects of Dragon Cave without rehashing the same old dead horse again and again. But what if they aren't sure if the subject is "controversial" on the people who use this forum, and/or if they can have a civil discussion, or if people are just gonna loose their minds and the idea of even seeing that thread exists causes them a lot of anxiety (I get it). Sometimes that feedback is important. Sometimes you should be told to really review it carefully with a MOD, or maybe set up XYZ sets of rules to "keep it civil" (since we seem to have had that prior conversation about topics that get out of hand with some users and the warnings of civil vs getting into a flame war requires a mod to step in, etc.). In a way, I see it a lot like the "Is this Name Ok? Thread". While I'm a crazy chaotic person who likes to live by the rule "It is better to beg forgiveness than ask permission," even **I** know certain names I might think are snarky and funny and definitely ok to use would get reported and cause my dragon to maybe get turned to .... Dead from TJ. Or at least a warning from the MOD if I'm lucky first (Not saying TJ runs around being crazy, just.... for my example roll with me here). It would work something like that.

 

So.... let's pick a really HOT TOPIC like... Toes - Yes Toes! Many of us love toes on this forum. Sometimes people love feet too. Sometimes people don't necessarily love or care about them irl, or maybe they do, but we love talking about toes because... well IRC maybe and whatever - Toes are awesome. But I also know people out there who ***HATE**** Feet. HATE FEET and HATE TOES!! What if the subject of Toes caused people to run into corners weeping at the thought of feet that terrifies them (I'm using a silly subject to avoid a real life touch subjects). Like... So if we are going to start an "I Love Toes Thread," maybe the person who does that wants to get some feedback, or maybe it just doesn't really belong on this forum/game and they should find another Thread/Forum/Site to discuss the awesomeness and fandom of Toes.

 

And also, if a Toe thread already exists, the forum users can let that member know. Maybe the thread did exist, but is now barren and empty. Or maybe it gets only a few posts here and there and the "person" who runs it doesn't play the game anymore or wants to hand it over to someone else and/or wants to work with some fresh enthusiasm to breathe some life into that thread. I've seen people resurrect old thread with a MOD's ok and have done great work with it after they attempted to contact the "original person" and didn't get a response after so many weeks. I mean, there are a lot of things that fall outside of what I try to support, but even with my time limited, why do they need to use something *I* set up, maybe they are just like heck I'm gonna go in, post this idea, and if I get some people who sound excited, I'm just gonna do it (after asking a MOD is always recommended still). That thread would cover everything. Even including General Discussion, Other Fan stuff, anything that could exist anywhere on this forum. Or not, if you wanted to limit it.

 

Or if someone has run a thread for a long time, but is ready to pass the torch, this would be a good place to post that in addition to their original thread (which again, if it is super buried, people aren't likely to see it).

 

Ok, that is enough typing. SO basically, I want to know basically is this something the MODs would allow? Is this something the players would find useful as a place to put ideas they think are great but don't have time to do & let someone else run with it OR someone who has an idea and wants feedback and/or maybe some other people to "team up on it if its super big" OR thinks they have a great idea but NEEDS some feedback to keep it on track OR warnings it probably doesn't belong here OR ...they think they have a "great new idea" and really it is a pre-existing thread that has just been buried and maybe they aren't that good at searching terms yet and others can find it for them and direct them to it, OR other people can post they are ready to pass on their thread or have it rebooted and want to pass the torch OR want help OR anything else including directly interacting with the Forum members & MODs more directly without PMing everything (again, ONLY stuff that is respectful and civil).

 

So... TL;DR: would it be ok if someone wanted to consider starting a thread called "A Thread About Threads: Post your Ideas & Questions Here About New Threads", (I think this forum is large enough that a thread about threads actually makes sense), and if someone wants to do it, can it not be me because.... other things....

 

And I feel this is the right place to post this as it is a Forum Feedback that I feel we have enough threads that re-pop up (those dead horses that never die even after turned to glue) or people who want to "start a thread" and post something that is completely wrong like .... a Tiny Question question - and this thread would take care of that and forum members & MODs could provide the feedback and tools to help others.

 

Again, I just think it is a good idea for the entire community, I just don't want to have to create it, or know that the Forum Gods are ok with such a thing. I think it would actually make modding possibly a bit easier from people who are so eager to "have their own thread" to refer them to a place if nothing else. Because while I love me some Boolean Searches, I know most English and especially non-English speakers are like .... WUT? This sort of thread would catch all that and offer, hopefully, a FAQ about when it is best to start threads and good ways to do them?

 

And yes, it is an idea I am throwing out, but, like the purpose of the thread, I want to throw the idea out, not actually do the work. Cause life.

[Dragon_Arbock]

I do not think the 'Don’t reduce holiday clutch sizes' thread was dealt with in a respectable manner- and by all accounts, your mods are constantly splitting threads any time someone mentioned something a little different than the topic at hand. Needless to say, we're encouraged to make a new thread for every little thing.

(And I didn't make the thread, I just am defending its right to exist when it was closed with what seemed like no respect and a back-handed comment).

[TJ09]

1 minute ago, Dragon_Arbock said:

I do not think the 'Don’t reduce holiday clutch sizes' thread was dealt with in a respectable manner- and by all accounts, your mods are constantly splitting threads any time someone mentioned something a little different than the topic at hand. Needless to say, we're encouraged to make a new thread for every little thing.

(And I didn't make the thread, I just am defending its right to exist when it was closed with what seemed like no respect and a back-handed comment).

 

The thread literally spawned because I said I had "considered" something with some "leaning towards"  and a bunch of other vague what-iffery. I could see the need for a strong pushback if/when an announcement or any sort of concrete information happened, but given that all I did was post my thoughts on a matter, there was nothing to really rally against. There's no need to keep a thread around that's trying to convince me to not to do something I'm unlikely to do to begin with.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

 

7 minutes ago, TJ09 said:

 

The thread literally spawned because I said I had "considered" something with some "leaning towards"  and a bunch of other vague what-iffery. I could see the need for a strong pushback if/when an announcement or any sort of concrete information happened, but given that all I did was post my thoughts on a matter, there was nothing to really rally against. There's no need to keep a thread around that's trying to convince me to not to do something I'm unlikely to do to begin with.

 

I do realize it was fairly preemptive, but I thought I’d seen you mention the possibility of reducing clutch size several months ago and, seeing it resurface again, thought it might have been something you’d mulled over for a while. I certainly didn’t intend to cause a panic, just wanted to show how most people still like how things are despite the holiday walls since—again—I could’ve sworn I saw you mention it before and that made me think you’d really thought it over. I apologize if I was mistaken, and admittedly I jumped the wagon pretty early. I was just trying not to derail the other thread, since like Arbock mentioned that’s usually frowned upon and the suggestion there dealt with Celestial behavior rather than holidays.

Edited January 18, 2018 by angelicdragonpuppy
Where did that yes come from lmao

[olympe]

@TJ09: Wouldn't you rather have our "please don't do this" feedback on something before you put in the coding time instead of after, when you make a real announcement? And, no, it wasn't the first time you mentioned the possibility of reducing clutch sizes.

[LibbyLishly]

Words I would like to see banned from forum discussions, particularly in Suggestions and News topics:

 

Greedy

Selfish

Entitled

Whining

 

These words, to me, are typically personal attacks, are highly inflammatory, attempt to halt productive conversation, and contribute to a toxic forum culture.

[Dragon_Arbock]

3 minutes ago, LibbyLishly said:

Words I would like to see banned from forum discussions, particularly in Suggestions and News topics:

 

Greedy

Selfish

Entitled

Whining

 

These words, to me, are typically personal attacks, are highly inflammatory, attempt to halt productive conversation, and contribute to a toxic forum culture.

 

Can we add 'participation award' to that list? It seems that's all detractors to requests for fairness accuse us of.

(like lord, we don't want these things to feel special, we want them because they're pretty dragons and we want to play with them).

Edited February 9, 2018 by Dragon_Arbock

[TJ09]

1 hour ago, LibbyLishly said:

Words I would like to see banned from forum discussions, particularly in Suggestions and News topics:

 

Greedy

Selfish

Entitled

Whining

 

These words, to me, are typically personal attacks, are highly inflammatory, attempt to halt productive conversation, and contribute to a toxic forum culture.

 

I can understand where this is coming from, but blocking words is trying to stop a symptom rather than the real problem. At one point, the forums blocked the phrase "no offense;" it doesn't really prevent people from being offensive, it just changes how people go about it. The word filter should generally be reserved for cases where a word itself is offensive and has no legitimate uses within the types of discussions the forum allows.

 

If someone is posting what amounts to personal attacks or inflammatory statements, then the mods should handle it as such, regardless of specific word choice.

[HeatherMarie]

Those words certainly *can* be used in a personal attack, but they aren't always, and the words themselves aren't offensive in any sense. I've used 'entitled' and 'greedy' to refer to my own state of mind, for example (ie, 'I feel greedy doing this' or 'I don't really feel entitled to that') and that certainly isn't offensive or attacking anyone. Banning words just because some people use them in a bad way really isn't a great solution.

[Whirlaway]

I see no reason in banning words. The more words one bans the harder it is to have a conversation (albeit one online).

 

And also, I don’t exactly partake to ‘censoring’. Just...

Edited February 10, 2018 by Dorchet

[purpledragonclaw]

2 hours ago, TJ09 said:

 

I can understand where this is coming from, but blocking words is trying to stop a symptom rather than the real problem. At one point, the forums blocked the phrase "no offense;" it doesn't really prevent people from being offensive, it just changes how people go about it. The word filter should generally be reserved for cases where a word itself is offensive and has no legitimate uses within the types of discussions the forum allows.

 

If someone is posting what amounts to personal attacks or inflammatory statements, then the mods should handle it as such, regardless of specific word choice.

 

And we do. 

 

Those words, by themselves, are not inappropriate on a PG-13 forum. How they're used to attack members for their opinions is what makes them inappropriate. If we ban those words, I guarantee we'll be revisiting this discussion with the next release or event when new words have been used to attack members. Remember to respect each other when we express opinions, try to understand other points of views, counter arguments with logic and reason, and we should be fine. 

[Terces]

While I agree that greedy/selfish/entitled/whining is generally used to shut down or insult others with differing opinions, based on my experiences in other forums these same people will just use other insults if those specific words get banned. Basically what TJ said, the sentiment behind the words is the real issue and is what needs to be dealt with.

 

I'm not sure how the mods feel about it, or how they decide it's time to step in and tell people to cool off or what have you - it'd be nice to hear their input on this (purpledragonclaw posted while I was typing this Good to hear from you!). Personally I'd appreciate that sort of behavior getting clamped down on more often because it really does drag the conversation down and lead to people getting increasingly more negative and personal until it's no longer enjoyable to post. Or even read what's being posted.

[purpledragonclaw]

Hi, Terces!

 

The Valentine's Schedule thread exploded in the few hours I was away. When I monitored it earlier it was getting testy, but not to the point where I thought I needed to step in. After modding too heavily in previous news threads I try to step back to not be too intrusive, but this was beyond the pale. One thing I do appreciate is members getting themselves back on track without us having to close the thread down; I'm really mindful of not clamping down on conversation, and trust you all to re-orient yourselves to the topic properly. This unfortunately hit in that brief window when I couldn't clamp it down.