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I mean, I even run an unofficial "third party" records site.

 

Cough. On a separate issue - that actually seems to be broken just now.... :)

 

20 minutes ago, Alrexwolf said:

Nah, PDC, you didn't do anything wrong. You and LL were just trying to keep the peace. I would be exceptionally sad if either of you were reprimanded for this; TJ was absent, to our knowledge, and an IRC mod seemed to have a solution that would work for a hurt subset. You only did what you could do. 

 

 

This, very much. You both did an amazing job in a ghastly situation. Thank you. Stick around. We need you - and we actually like you, too, and what it is so.

 

Please share:

 

tenor.gif?itemid=8158818

 

Edited by Fuzzbucket

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Well, there were several people pointing out their problem with the (still) exclusive sweetling chat in the thread where Starscream posted about it. However, the pages containing these posts have been deleted. 

 

However, the wording about the exclusivity of said chat has been quite clear in more than one place (Sweetlings thread - multiple times; Starscream's thread and, last but not least, Starscream's signature), as has been their wording about working out a petition that was supposed to go directly to yours truly.

 

1 hour ago, LadyLyzar said:

Rules between mods and TJ need to be set between them and no one else.  He pays attention to what happens on the forums so any discussion there was going to be moot.  I have seen other similar topics regarding mod/artist behavior immediately closed by TJ himself, so I was proactive.  Emotions are raw and this is not the right time for that sort of thing.

 

Now I'm going to try to clear the air here so bear with me.

 

There has been a gross misconception about what Starscream was trying to do.

 

I've talked to her in order to make sure I have it 100% right, and here's what we hashed out.

 

  1. The alt chat was NEVER only for alt owners.  I know from the wording that it came across that way.  It's not.  It is a scheduled time and place for alt owners to speak and brainstorm because no one was consulted before the changes to alts took place.  However that means that:
  2. ANYONE is welcome to join the chat.  ANYONE.  It doesn't matter if you have black, pink, or no Sweets.  You are welcome to contribute.  What will not be tolerated is bashing of anyone regardless of what dragons you have.  This goes for alt owners and non alt owners.  If you are only there to cause trouble, you will be removed.  There are hurt feelings on both sides and that's what we really want to avoid.
  3. A scheduled IRC chat provides real-time moderation.  As I'm sure you noticed, the suggestion thread blew up while I was in bed and no one else was around to mod it.  I appreciate those who tried to keep it civil.  I really do.  However, the real-time modding will allow troublemakers to be escorted out the door before things explode.  That way things can be discussed without the firestorm that occurred last night.
  4. The scroll requirement was for purposes of easier chat modding.  It wasn't meant to be exclusive but I see how it came across that way. However, after finding a workaround, that has now been removed.  AGAIN, everyone can come and discuss.

In summary, don't try to burn her at the stake.  She was trying to help and it came across the wrong way.

 

Now, claiming that the chat was never only for alt owners and that anyone is welcome to join is in very clear and stark contrast to what has been posted in several places before, and which stays worded that way. How the alt sweetling scroll requirement was supposed to help with chat modding is a mystery to me, so I certainly don't buy this explanation. Not at all.

Adding to that that the notification thread for the alt sweetling chat clearly states Starscream's opinion on the whole matter and that everyone should keep her reasoning in mind while either discussing the issue in the chat or filling out their form - well, you can see how that comes across to someone who is clearly not welcome there.

 

However, I do agree that a scheduled IRC chat does allow for real-time moderation, which is a big plus. (Just... how much moderation do you expect to need if everyone is reminded of the semi-official opinion of the thread starter in the first place? Not to mention that most of the "opposition" simply doesn't get an invite, much less a voice.) I can also understand knee-jerk reactions. They can happen, we're all humans, after all. However, shouldn't the wording of the actual Sweetling IRC chat and the signature be changed to reflect the (officially) true intent? And, yes, that non-reaction is why I don't believe LadyLyzar's statements from the above quote. I'm sure she believes what she said, and that that's exactly what she got from her discussion with Starscream. But... well. Starscream's posts/signature and her official intentions don't match up. At. All.

 

10 minutes ago, purpledragonclaw said:

I'm blaming myself here for my part in this. Pinning the topic was completely inappropriate on my part and made it look like an official chat from TJ. It was not, and that was where I abused my authority. The road to hell is paved with the best intentions.

 

Thank you for the support, I will step away for a few hours. I need to think about how I can become a better mod from all this.

 

Please continue to leave me feedback, positive and negative, it only helps me grow.

 

Don't. You did a pretty small thing that, unfortunately, blew up in your face. It happens to the best of us. Your pinning of the topic has been corrected, too. The way I see it, you didn't intentionally abuse your authority at all. I'm more worried that you might be scapegoated for the whole fiasco in which you played a rather minor role. (And I'm not trying to belittle you here!)

 

Edited by olympe

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Lyzar, I love you for that Doug post :D

 

You guys wrapped this up really nicely and it’s appreciated. Yah, some mistakes were made (by all sides! :P), but it’s how people bounce back that matters. I’m honestly touched that instead of coming away from all this dumb drama going “GRRR, CURSE THE FORUMS,” you came away wanting to improve! That says a lot about your character. You guys put a lot of selfless time and effort into keeping this madhouse in order and it’s appreciated. :) 

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5 minutes ago, angelicdragonpuppy said:

Lyzar, I love you for that Doug post :D

 

You guys wrapped this up really nicely and it’s appreciated. Yah, some mistakes were made (by all sides! :P), but it’s how people bounce back that matters. I’m honestly touched that instead of coming away from all this dumb drama going “GRRR, CURSE THE FORUMS,” you came away wanting to improve! That says a lot about your character. You guys put a lot of selfless time and effort into keeping this madhouse in order and it’s appreciated. :) 

This... XD The Doug 'Cone of Shame Post' Was ADORABLE.


And thanks to you both for all of your efforts.

 

 

Edited by JavaTigress

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2 minutes ago, olympe said:

However, shouldn't the wording of the actual Sweetling IRC chat and the signature be changed to reflect the (officially) true intent?

 

Starscream could not change the chat topic because it was immediately locked and she has no forum powers.  Not even OPs can edit locked topics (which I just learned today because of this.)

 

Also I think her signature was edited once already?  I didn't see the original one.

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I do not blame PDC. That, however, doesn't erase the issue I take with the irc chat.

 

And even if we weren't being excluded, I believe important discussions like that should stay on forums. It is a lot harder to collect and write out your thoughts when 20 other people are stealing what you have to say as words fly by you.

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Yes, the reference to "scroll proof" for alt ownership required was deleted. :/ Apart from that, it's still directed at alt owners only. Also, if it was important to them, they could have asked PDC or TJ or whoever else has the ability to do so to delete or alter her post.

 

Which reminds me of something else I would like you to consider: Give all forum mods the ability to mod in all sections, but with the clear understanding that they're only supposed to mod the other sections only if the situation looks really bad. Maybe make it so that they can only close a thread until a section mod can have a look at it. But please also take care to not "temporarily" lock active discussion threads for days or even weeks at a time if that happens. (Maybe aim towards a temporary lock of no more than 24 hours?)

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As we were sorting it out, TJ cleaned things up.  It's over and done as it is.

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Well well, last time I checked, the thread was civil. Now it's locked, and the comments about people asking for TJ to be transparent with his reasonings with Alt Sweets are gone. I see how it is.

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We joined around the same time - so nothing new there. ;)

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14 minutes ago, Dragon_Arbock said:

Well well, last time I checked, the thread was civil. Now it's locked, and the comments about people asking for TJ to be transparent with his reasonings with Alt Sweets are gone. I see how it is.

Exactly my thinking.  When it was closed with the note about personal attacks, I was just scratching my head.  I had been following it closely and hadn't seen any.  Then, I thought, "oh..."

 

 

Edited by Brekke

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May I ask where we are meant to discuss/request transparency if it's too off-topic for the sweetling thread and the previous suggestion thread was locked? Here?

 

I am aware that my comment was deleted, but I received no accompanying warning. So I'd just like to know ahead of time whether this is an off limits discussion. That way I can avoid a possible warn and avoid wasting time typing out any further posts.

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Transparency is fine but that was going way off topic from the original post, which is about solutions for alt sweetlings.

 

If you'd like a topic on more transparency, feel free to suggest it.  :)  Just keep it civil is all I ask.  I know this has been frustrating all around.

 

Asking for more communication is just fine - personal attacks are not.  Some of those comments were getting downright nasty - respecting others goes toward our admin, too.

Edited by LadyLyzar

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I understand, but can you clarify where we are meant to post if we keep it civil? Can we make a transparency site discussion topic or a suggestion topic?

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I think discussing the lack of transparency on the site had a direct relationship to the purpose of the thread.  Respect is earned.  Basic respect for a person's humanity is required, of course, but respect for somebody's decisions is not.  I don't respect the way TJ makes decisions.  I don't respect the way he ignores things.  He posted over the weekend about the IRC situation, but can't tell us his reasoning behind the decision?  He was here, he was posting--but he wasn't telling us anything.  What are we supposed to do about that?

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I find myself wondering lately how Sock would've handled this whole situation. It was... nice to have that buffer between the users and TJ willing and happy to interact with the community who had power beyond that of the sectional / help mods. 

 

I hope we get a new global mod soon, that's my forum feedback.

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Just now, Jazeki said:

I understand, but can you clarify where we are meant to post if we keep it civil? Can we make a transparency site discussion topic or a suggestion topic?

 

Good question!

 

If you are throwing out actual solutions, I would recommend a suggestion topic.

 

For example, I found the "State of the Cave" newletters to be quite useful way back when.  I'd love a sort of newsletter that talks about issues and proposed changes.  Kind of like when the Fertility rework went through S/R.

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The worst thing I said was that I do not respect him (TJ). Not an insult, it is exactly how I feel based on how he acts towards us. If I am to respect him, I expect him to do to the same.

I like DC as a game, but I cannot separate that from my utter dislike for the management.

2 minutes ago, Brekke said:

Respect is earned.  Basic respect for a person's humanity is required, of course, but respect for somebody's decisions is not.  I don't respect the way TJ makes decisions.  I don't respect the way he ignores things.

Thanks for saying that batter than I can.

 

Sadly, I do not know what I can expect positive to be done anymore.

 

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Just now, LadyLyzar said:

 

Good question!

 

If you are throwing out actual solutions, I would recommend a suggestion topic.

 

For example, I found the "State of the Cave" newletters to be quite useful way back when.  I'd love a sort of newsletter that talks about issues and proposed changes.  Kind of like when the Fertility rework went through S/R.

Thank you! I will go ahead and make one.

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Just now, Jazeki said:

Thank you! I will go ahead and make one.

You might ask for "a note from TJ" for each issue while you're at it.

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4 minutes ago, Alrexwolf said:

I find myself wondering lately how Sock would've handled this whole situation. It was... nice to have that buffer between the users and TJ willing and happy to interact with the community who had power beyond that of the sectional / help mods. 

 

I hope we get a new global mod soon, that's my forum feedback.

 

Believe me, we've been discussing this. 

 

I think all relevant news/updates works better as a thread in News rather than a newsletter.

 

I will go check out Jazeki's thread once she makes it. 

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Just joining this and have been reading the last few pages. I don't feel like my opinion will be counted for much seeing as the Sweet decision isn't really one that concerns me, but I agree with the vast majority that what happened was out of order. I'm glad it was cleared up. This community has always been so welcoming to me and I really dislike disagreements and stuff that can occasionally happen, so seeing peace restored is just lovely, and I'm glad that people can see their mistakes and are happy to learn from them.

 

What I have taken from the last few pages though is that yes, we need a new global mod. No further explanation needed. Maybe even a couple, because being the only global mod seems like a lot of responsibility. I also feel that maybe... Could we have more mods? For example, I read that Lyzar is often in bed when things go down, and being in a non-US timezone, I understand that things like that can happen. Like a few others have mentioned, if there were more chat mods active at the time, perhaps things wouldn't have gotten so heated. [Like, it sucks to hear that PurpleDragonClaw was watching everything in the chat go down with no power to help it!] Again, it isn't just that people might be sleeping, it's that people have jobs and real life, and perhaps there aren't enough mods to go round, so to speak. Idk, just a suggestion c:

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@RealWilliamShakespeare See my quote from the Transparency in DC thread:

 

Quote

I've mentioned this in other threads, but since I don't feel like digging through the search tool I'll reiterate here that the addition of more mods is on our radar and being actively discussed. 

 

I'm a Site Discussion mod, and the other mod involved, Starscream, is a Chat mod. What we needed was a Help mod or global mod, who were unavailable at the time. 

Edited by purpledragonclaw

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